markmets415

The Virginia Beach FD has a rank called Master Firefighter. It is not a promotional rank where you take the test and go on a list to be in the running in the position. To qualify, you must have at least 6 years OTJ and have attended a list of required courses such as Ladder Co. Ops, Engine Co Ops, Initial fire attack, and so on. Once you pass the courses, your Company Officer puts you in the officer's seat and he rides the jump seat. The Co. Officer observes and evaluates you until he's satisfied you can handle the position. He then gets approval from Battalion and you get the title. All who pass the procedure become Master FF's.
A Master FF can ride the officer's seat in the absence of an officer ( and Co. Officer duties in house). Pay increases by 10% when appointed as MFF. To take the Captains test, you must have 2 years as a MFF
This kind of makes the position of senior man a little more official and adds a pay incentive. I think it is a pretty good system and recognizes the guy who would otherwise be our "Senior Man"

There is nothing more valueable than having that senior guy there. I am 50 and been in the fire service for 33 years and I still look to my senior guys for advice and guidance

Pawling's BRAT had been delivered, may it serve the Pawling fire district and it's neighbors well.

Agreed. we suspended the requirements for 2 years and allowed current and perspective officers time to achieve the requirements. When the 2 years were up, the requirements came back into effect. Many guys took zero classes and simply cannot run. I feel like we were very lenient and provided ample time. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but cannot make it drink.

I'm still confused. How is 585 the a*hole? Especially if you agree with the majority of what he says? You do realize he is a chief officer in his department, right? So, again....please elaborate.

It looks like the only a****** here is possibly yourself. I agree with the majority of the posts here and it is a proven fact that the vast majority of the Volunteer Fire Service elections are pretty much popularity contests and thats garbage. A member can have every class and certification in the book but the bottom line is some people have no business being an officer or chief period. It shouldnt even be a question agencies should and obviously need to have requirments for positions and need to stick to them and just dont "bend them" or make exceptions. Turn-over in the ranks in agencies because "thats just how it is" is Bull****, If they work and are willing to stay put and continue to have the drive to do the job the right way...leave them and groom others to do the right thing, not blow it on a "Filler". The respect of your members toward a potential canidate for the drive of doing whats right for the common good of your district/department/company, citizens, and safety of the membership is paramount. I'd go out on a limb and have to say that maybe it just wasnt your turn and it might be time to start making more training videos.

This is straight out of our company bylaws:
ARTICLE TEN
DUTY REQUIREMENTS

Chief - Everything required for Asst. Chief
Assistant Chief - Everything required for Capt
Officer 2
Incident Safety Officer (ISO)
Captain - Everything required for LT
Officer 1
LT - Firefighter I/II
Instructor 1
NIMS 100, 200, 700, and 800
Strategy and Tactics for Initial Company Operations (STICO)
3 Year minimum membership with FF 2 Certification

Why is this in the Law Enforcement section?
First of all, I totally agree in required training for Officers. We recently implemented requirements for our officers, which followed the recommendations of OFPC (DHSES, whatever they are now) and/or NYSAFC (I forget who). We added some other stuff. In order to be flexible to the masses, we had to let former officers be allowed to hold positions again for another two years to give guys time to meet the new requirements, provided the past officer isn't moving up, in which case they must meet the new requirements.
Second, and I swear by this - it doesn't matter what classes or training someone has. If the guy/gal hasn't been around long enough to earn their peers' respect on and off the fireground - they don't belong in the ranks. Experience, training, attendance above that of the minimum, common sense and a mindset of doing the greater good for their company/department are the attributes of a good officer.
Third, you can have someone who either does or does not have a lot of training run your department into the ground. We have suffered quite a few poor Chiefs and poor Company Officers over the years, and I am sure we'll make those mistakes again. (Hopefully I am wrong) You can have a Chief who does nothing at all for two years, followed by one that does a ton and changes things for the good for two, then have another flapjack come in and set you all back in time again for two years. Realistically, term limits should be looked at and if the majority is content with their leadership - why change it because it is someone else's turn? If a guy is in say, 5 years, and the majority has had their fill of him, VOTE HIM OUT. It isn't rocket science to me, but I am part of the minority.
Westchester-area Career Officers generally get FDNY's FLIP school, right? Man I would give my left nut for that kind of program. The officer courses offered to the rest of us don't tell you how to handle your calls - they just tell you how to avoid getting sued and show you ways to earn your members' respect (which is fine, but where the f*** is the REAL TRAINNG?!?!)
I think there are plenty of people in this county - paid and volunteer - that could put together an amazing officer program for both sides of the fence which would cover your soup to nuts. Then, and only then, could any of us really feel "trained & prepared."
/rant

The one thing about this requirement is its an older one from the days of Essentials of Firemenship. Our SOP's need to be updated.
First off, this wasnt a case of "two equals" who ran against each other an I lost fair and square. I have 25 years, Level II FF and Haz-Mat Tech and a bunch of other stuff that I refresh every 3-5 years. I work hard around the firehouse and always do the work myself instead of make others do it. If there is a work detail I am right in the mix working instead of sitting in the chiefs office "doing paperwork". I work hard to make the others safe, and happy. I got an engine donated to our department just to have them turn it down, now we are dealing with a crappy engine. I got a grant for the department which got us our first TIC and a better 4-gas meter. I ran and worked several fund raisers and have more in the works with minimal help. This guy has been in the dept for about 8 years but was not active due to health reasons. He recently got his health in check and took FF1 while serving as captain. Mind you; he has no experience as an interior firefighter other than the live burns at the training tower for FF1 class. The department feels he would be a better chief because his mother was a chief a few years ago. So...its all about who you know in my department and not about dedication to the department, training and experience. There are no excuses being made on my end and I am simply venting to my peers when I say I am leaving the deparment. I am staying, and I will make a stink this year at meetings to request that the SOP's get updated and new officers requirements get written by our fire commissioners. I will work to make things better. Guess a firefighter cant vent to his "family" or his "brothers" anymore. To all of you that offered advice and comments thank you, I have taken it all and will use it. Not only that but the support you showed, whether for or against me, empowers me to do what needs to be done and I thank you all.
Thanks again and stay safe.

My FD has never allowed our Associate (non firematic) members to vote for line positions, but they can vote for and hold administrative positions i.e. President, VP, Secretary, Treasurer and Trustee so long as they have met and maintain their attendance requirements. We use a point system to determine member eligibility to vote and Service Officers must also pass an in house test (which we call First grade FF) to be eligible to run for and hold office.This system is currently under revision leaning towards monthly or quarterly service hours along with more in depth testing for each line positions. As one would expect there is resistance, but that has more to do with the amount of service hours required rather than actually requiring the hours themselves. Fortunately the BFD has always held firefighting as the principle mission of our department with social activities and memberships being a secondary concern.

I'll lob this grenade of an opinion, lets see where it leads.
In my opinion, if you are not a Firefighter (read: CURRENT, Certified Firefighter) you should not be eligible to vote for Firematic Officers. If you are not an EMS Responder you should not be eligible to vote for EMS Officers. If we're going to stick to an open season representative election of Officers (which I disagree with) that's fine, but then lets have those Officers actually REPRESENT the personnel in the field. Why should a person who isn't actually in the field have a say in who is going to ensure the safety of personnel on the scene?
But that will never happen for the same reason we'll never get term limits in Congress. The majority of volunteer departments I've seen have way more social "members" than Firefighters or EMS Responders. Therefore, the only way that a change like that goes through is by a vote, and those social members will never vote to lose their voice in how the department is run.

Not to start a fight, I train as many vol ff's as I do career, BUT these statements by you fellows are why the career side pushes so hard for equality in training, to call yourself a firefighter, officer or chief. Look whats happening, A officer wants to change things for the better, and he is voted out. The fire service is in a lot of trouble, it is time to wake up.

I agree with you. I have been in the fire service for 25 years now and have been a level 2 firefighter for about 15 years. I am a Haz-Mat Tech Basic, National and State certified fire investigator, and I have a training file about an inch thick or more...yet a guy fresh out of FF1 gets 1st asst chief...
I take pride in the fire service and try to uphold the traditions and laws, but its hard when you are one of the few that do that still. I remember when a FF fresh out of basic had to wait to be addressed before they could speak at meetings and such, or when I as a Junior Firefighter had to stand at attention when the chief walked into the room. When senior firefighters spoke, everyone else shut their yaps and listened or got slapped upside the head. When an officer gave an order at a fire scene it was carried out regardless of your training or experience...you did it (unless it was blatently dangerous). Today...these young members get FF1 and start to get big heads and big ideas and visions of glamour and fame and they run their mouths at drills, calls and meetings, disrespect senior members and officers....I even had a guy argue with me in front of the home owner while pumping out their basement...ARGUE with me?!?!?! One of the senior guys/fire commissioners yelled at him and said "a senior fire officer has given an order and you will follow it!!!"
Its getting dangerous...in my area there are MULTIPLE chiefs under the age of 25...But if those of us that can make changes all left the department, who will be left to make the necessary changes and fight for the tax payers and people that call 911? So I guess thats why I am staying, maybe lay low for a few months, then start to poke into things that will anger people...LOL

Moose,
I empathize with you completely as I was recently placed in a similar situation. I am a 10 year member (joined at 16 years old) of a Westchester County fire department. I have served as an officer for the past 6 years as Rescue Company Lieutenant for 1 year, Rescue Company Captain for 2 years, Engine Company Lieutenant for 1 year, and Captain of the department for 2 years. Additionally, I have taken pride in being well trained and hold certificates for Firefighter 1, Firefigher 2, Firefigher Survival, Rescue Tech Basic, NYS/CT EMT, HAZ-MAT Operations, Truck Company Ops, Firefighter Assist and Search Teams, Introduction to Fire Officer, Fire Officer 1, Emergency Vehicle Operations Course, Emergency Vehicle Operator-Pump, and various Westchester County/Seminar Certifications. Outside of my Emergency Services Career, I have a college degree from a very prestigious Liberal Arts College and am in the process of getting a Masters in Business Administration from an acclaimed NYC University. In my professional career I am an executive for a Fortune 500 company in New York City.
In this past election, I was squeezed out of the line of Officers when an Ex-Chief decided to go around again (lost by 1 vote). At that time, I determined that I no longer wanted to be a part of that organiation and have been to the firehouse for 4 calls (all possible structure fires/entrapments) since the end of my term in may. I have not attended a single drill or meeting. I have drafted my letter of resignation and will submit it next month at our monthly meeting. It was my belief that the values of the organization of which I was a part was no longer consistent with my vision of what an emergency services organization should be and that I no longer wanted to be a part of it. With all due respect, it sounds like you should count your losses as well. Do you really want to be part of a fire department that allows individuals to occupy the rank of Captain with no formal training? Now that you are no longer Chief will you have faith that those individuals are making educated decisions that will ensure your safety on the fireground? Are the members of your organization operating in the best interest of the taxpayers who they serve? It sounds like they would be better trained if they actually cared about the lives of the people who they were responsible for protecting.
I will never join another emergency services organization unless I feel that they take pride in best serving the members of the community and ensure that they are "professionally staffed by volunteers." As for now, my career is over until I find an organization that takes pride in being able to fight fire, doesn't b**** when its time to perform a vigorous, physical drill, and spends less time worrying about attending parades, selling Christmas trees, or having barbecues. In my opinion, the volunteer fire service is somewhat lost and needs a reminder of the true, original goals and ideals on which the system was founded.

Sore subject with me brother, can I please vent a little to all of you??
We had our "popularity contest" (elections) last Monday night. I have been serving for the past three years; 2 as Captain and one as assist chief which I held proudly. This past year, our two captains finaly finished their FF1 training, one even took the FF2 as well (thats right folks we had 2 captains serving without basic training. They based their qualifications on being able to work all equipment and knowing the department...) This year for nominations one of the two Captains and another member were nominated over me for 1st assistant, I was nominated for nothing. The other current Captain was nom for 2nd asst. Both current Captains have no officers training and very little if any experience as interior firefighters. I was beat out by someone fresh out of FF1 with no experience all because I was making a push to change things, focus more on safety and upgrading equipment and the department obviously didnt like that so they voted me out.
That bothers me, and the more I make a stink about it the more they get in my face and tell me its done so live with it. Another more experienced member 35 years in the service made inquiries into their training records and they have next to nothing besides FF1 and 2 yet our SOP's require FF1 with 5 years in the department, EVOC, Haz-Mat Ops, FBAA/Principles, and at least 2-3 officers courses like NIMS 700, ICS 100, 200 etc etc. They have none of these.
Who can I contact that would get the best results to fix this issue? FASNY? OFPC (or do they even handle stuff like this) local government? State government?
It realy sucks too since we just moved into our first house, in this district so I cant move to another area with a better department...
Sorry for the rant, just realy bothers me to no end...this backwoods redneck volunteer we-dont-have-to-follow-the-rules BS thats going to kill someone if not changed....help.

Croton-on-Hudson FD
Chief: Bill Vlad (3rd time)
1st Asst Chief: Matt Mansfield
2nd Asst Chief: Chris Colombo

Lake Carmel Fire Department 2014
Chief William Walters
1st Asst Chief Jack Keher
2nd Asst Chief Dave Churchill
Captain PJ Ryan
Captain TJ Donohue
Captain John Vigliotti
Lt's
Brent McDonnell
Donny Louwndes
Mike Bishop
Jess Ryan
Mike Squaillante
Mike Madsen
Luis Rodriguez

Earlier today we attended the annual Sisters Oregon Christmas Parade. Our district shares a small part of Sisters, and Bend Oregon. Here is some of the apparatus, I will be getting more photos of both Districts. And, Cloverdale is celebrating our 50 th anniversary t-shirts will be for sale PM. Me for more info and to order. Thank you brothers and sisters
Our Yellow rig "mellow yellow" aka 644 is former Attack 35 from Dallastown PA, 1997 Salisbury/international urban interface, we also placed our tool on it.

In many towns around the country the fire house was and still is a meeting place. Dances and other town functions were held there. The office of president for the company and its board members would handle the social side of things and the line officers are in charge of the firematic side of things.
I know this is so hard for some career firefighter who to them being a firefighter is JUST their job, but to thousands of fire fighters around the country being a member of a fire company is a lot more.

A few photos from the shop, flat bed body is completed and mounted.

A few photos from the shop, flat bed body is completed and mounted.

What is the feeling on fire district commissioners serving as fire company officers ( captain, president, etc). Although not illegal I think it is wrong and is a conflict of interest especially if you have a power hungry person who wants to run everything.

Because most of these fire companies were probably incorporated in the late 1800's and early 1900's. To be a corporation you needed "directors" to apply and then corporation officers... President, Vice, Secretary etc....

Alex whom are you fighting with? And that statement seems a bit irresponsible on your part, I'm sure if one of "your" members suffers an injury or god forbid a LODD at a scene of a brush fire and a court happens to see this statement "Sorry, but I can't justify sending people to school for Wildfire certification when I'm fighting to get funding for basic Firefighter training." you won't have to worry about getting funding anymore, it happens, Millerton N.Y., one of our neighboring departments had a LODD at brush/grass fire not that long ago, we respond to just as many brush and grass fire then we do actual structure fires, just be more careful how you choose your words, especially when they are out there for "EVERYONE" to see.

We'll figure it out and make it a good day and see if we can get the CT and NYS Rangers involved, we can never train enough, last year Kent CT lost an engine at a brush fire, so I'm sure we can pull it off