dwcfireman

The renovations at the airport are still in the beginning phases. First we're reconstructing parking lots to accommodate rental cars and meet security regulations, as well as alleviate traffic in front of the main terminal. The ramp will increase in size (eventually), and drastically, when a TWY A restructuring project happens. This won't be for a while, though. The runway does need to be replaced, and that will most likely start in 2013, along with a realignment of 11/29. As far as that parking garage in Armonk, your guess is as good as mine.
We no longer have the E-One Titan. It was sold about three years ago after being replaced with the '07 Striker (The E-One was the old ARPT7). And, no, the spill cart doesn't count. The spill cart actually falls under the environmental department rather than ARFF. And an interesting little piece of information: ARPT11 is actually from the same batch of Strikers as the Port Authority's 1500s.

As someone who works in the Westchester County Airport Operations Department, I would like to throw my 2 cents in, as well as clarify some things.
voltage1256: Is that indeed the official winglet? Or are they remaining with the current signature triangle winglet?
I see that you are a pilot, and as one aviation professional to another, I'm going to teach you something new. The "signature" triangle winglet that you see on jetBlue's A320's is indeed a winglet. A winglet is an attachment to the wing tip to assist in the disruption of vortices that create uneven airflow around the ailerons (for those unfamiliar with the term, these are the flaps that control the roll of an aircraft). The E190 that jetBlue currently flies, and the new A321 series that they are purchasing, have blended wing tips, which is a wing tip that curves upward. I didn't know this before I worked at the airport. It's just an interesting point that I thought I could share. As far as the order goes, the A321 tends to be delivered with the blended wing. I don't see jetBlue changing that to a winglet.
firedude: It's not just weight that determines whether or not it can use HPN's 6500ft runway.
You are 100% correct. Officially Runway 16/34 (the main runway) is measured at 6548 feet. Typically commercial aircraft land at the aiming points (the large white boxes painted on the runway), and those are located 500 from the either end. So now we're looking at 6000 feet of runway. Thankfully turbine (jet) aircraft have thrust reversers, which assist in decelerating during landing, and the aircraft stop and exit the runway well before the end. This is where weight comes into play. dadbo46, you asked about the A321's weight. To break it down for you, the A320 has a maximum take-off weight of 170,000 lbs versus the A321 at 206,000 lbs (I know I switched from landing capabilities to take-off, just hang with me while I explain). With these weights, the A320 needs 6860 feet of runway to take off, whereas the A321 would need 8400 feet. The A320 is the largest aircraft servicing HPN at this time, and if it has a full passenger load then weight needs to be reduced elsewhere. That weight comes out of the fuel tanks. jetBlue cannot take off out of HPN with full fuel, which is why we don't have more popular flights, i.e. Las Vegas. Just by going off of take-off weights and the loads that jetBlue carries, I can tell you right now that we will never see the A321 fly commercially in and out of Westchester.
Another issue with the runway, playing off the above information, is the weight that it can handle. The current runway design is not for heavy aircraft. RWY 16/34 takes a beating from every A320, B737, A319, etc that lands and takes off. There is a plan in place to redesign and rebuild the runway to accommodate the weights of these aircraft, but the new design still will not be able to withstand a landing from a A321.

firedude: All this info is for the old A321 and not the new A321 which jetBlue ordered.
Yes, the weights above are for the "old" A321, however, the weights for the new A321 will be much similar. Aircraft manufacturers don't tend to change much of a design if they intend to keep the "new and improved" design within the same family.
firedude: HPN's widest taxiway which is only 60ft wide.
Sorry, man, but I have to call you out on this one. Taxiway A is 75 feet wide full length, as is most of C and L, parts of K, and high-speed exit G. The rest of the primary taxiways are 50 feet wide. But you bring up an excellent point about the size of the aircraft. The main gear on the A321 are 55 feet apart! That means the aircraft is going into the grass if it tried to taxi along half the field. Mind you, HPN is designed for it's largest aircraft to be the Boeing 737 Classic (the 300, 400, and 500 series). The A320 is just a little bigger that the B735, so we're already pushing the limits that we can handle. You also mention the A321 is 146 feet long. Well, the A320 is 123 feet long, and I can tell you first hand that it barely fits on the gates. Granted, HPN will be undergoing major construction in the near future; increasing the size of the gates, increasing the size of the terminal, etc, but I will remind you of what I previously mentioned. The A321 cannot land or take off out of Westchester.
Now, since this website is a forum for emergency services information, I'm going to explain the ARFF requirement and the effect it could have: Federal Aviation Regulation states that an ARFF index is determined by the longest commercial aircraft that lands at the airport, as long as it averages 5 or more landings per day in the busiest week of a 12 calendar month period. For Westchester that is ARFF Index B, aircraft 91 feet in length up to but not including 126 feet. Our determining aircraft is the A320, as mentioned before ate 123 feet long. At a minimum we are required to provide one vehicle that carries and applies a minimum of 500 lbs of a sodium-based dry chemical extinguishing agent, 1500 gallons of water, and a commensurate quantity of foam concentrate for 2 tanks of water. Current HPN has double this capacity, operating two Oshkosh Striker 1500's (if you've never seen one, look at firedude's avatar). Now, if the A321 were to service HPN to the point where we need to change the ARFF index, we would have to upgrade to Index C. But, alas, HPN already meets the standard for Index C. With two trucks we already provide the minimum; 500 lbs of a sodium-based dry chemical extinguishing agent, 3000 gallons of water, and a commensurate quantity of foam concentrate for 2 tanks of water. But what if one of the trucks breaks down? Our back-up is a 1987 P-19 with only 1000 gallons of water. So if we have one Striker and one P-19, we now only have 2500 gallons of water. Now the airport is out of standard, which will cause the airlines to change schedules and swap out aircraft, costing an insurmountable amount of money, until that second Striker is operational. People don't really ever think about it, but any little hiccup can cause the airline industry to spin out of control.
mfc2257: Avionics will be similar and pilots can be certified across the model line...
Even though the aircraft are extremely similar and are indeed members of the same family, current FAA regulations still require training and check rides for each aircraft type. That means a pilot would have to train and check out on the A318, 319, 320, and 321 individually. I'll leave you with the reminder that the FAA is a federal government agency, and 99% of the stuff they come up with will never make sense.

Federal Aviation Regulation FAR139 - Certification and Operations: Land Airports Serving Certain Air Carriers
Specifically, 139.315 states the Index of the airport's operational needs for ARFF equipment, in which case Westchester is Index B. The aircraft that decides this for HPN is the Airbus A320, flown by jetBlue at 123' long. FAR 139.317 determines how many pieces of apparatus the airport needs and how much water, foam, and dry-chem the apparatus must carry. Technically, Westchester can remain open to air carrier/airline operations with one of our trucks, thus be capable of allowing a truck to respond off field if necessary. Even with the tactical capabilities of the trucks the airport is still limited to the fact that it only operates a fire brigade, similar to that at the Grasslands Reservation in Valhalla.
Now let's put it this way: If the airport had all 3 vehicles in service at all times, HPN would meet the requirement for the next index up ©. If the airfield was capable of these operations (and it's not) we would see aircraft like the Boeing 757.
The easiest way to this info is http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_139.html , and Subpart D has all the information.

antiquefirelt, great post. It's an excellent example of foregoing the can. With this said, I would like to take the opportunity to describe an incident where the can was all we needed:
Called out for a water flow alarm in a commercial building, myself and two firefighters walk up the stairs to the second floor where the flow alarm is coming from. Going into the stairwell we had very little information. A scene size-up showed no signs of fire or damage to the building, and the only alarm on the panel was for a water flow on the second floor. Upon emerging from the stairwell we found a significant amount of water flowing down the hallway. Following it upstream we came across a light smoke condition, and came to an office door where the water and smoke was bellowing. We forced entry into the office where we encountered heavy smoke. Thankfully the cubicles acted as river banks, and we continued to follow the water back to a side room (on the #3 side, fourth floor). Inside this room we found a stack of computers that was burning, but contained by the sprinkler head above. The fire was quickly extinguished with the use of a single dry chem extinguisher.
I tell this story not just to show an example of when the can is going to be effective, but also to reinforce that you need to take the correct extinguisher with you. Residential structures are mostly ordinary combustibles, and a water can is fine. Commercial offices tend to have a lot of computer equipment, so you may want to bring along the CO2 extinguisher or dry chem. Industrial structures get a little trickier, depending on what a particular business manufactures or the service(s) they provide. A dry chem extinguisher is a good choice, but you may also want to consider a class D (metal-X), for instance going into a welding shop, or a class K extinguisher for restaurants. But before you decide what to bring make sure you do a proper size-up. If you have fire blowing out multiple windows, leave the can on the truck. If you arrive with nothing showing, grab the appropriate can.

antiquefirelt, great post. It's an excellent example of foregoing the can. With this said, I would like to take the opportunity to describe an incident where the can was all we needed:
Called out for a water flow alarm in a commercial building, myself and two firefighters walk up the stairs to the second floor where the flow alarm is coming from. Going into the stairwell we had very little information. A scene size-up showed no signs of fire or damage to the building, and the only alarm on the panel was for a water flow on the second floor. Upon emerging from the stairwell we found a significant amount of water flowing down the hallway. Following it upstream we came across a light smoke condition, and came to an office door where the water and smoke was bellowing. We forced entry into the office where we encountered heavy smoke. Thankfully the cubicles acted as river banks, and we continued to follow the water back to a side room (on the #3 side, fourth floor). Inside this room we found a stack of computers that was burning, but contained by the sprinkler head above. The fire was quickly extinguished with the use of a single dry chem extinguisher.
I tell this story not just to show an example of when the can is going to be effective, but also to reinforce that you need to take the correct extinguisher with you. Residential structures are mostly ordinary combustibles, and a water can is fine. Commercial offices tend to have a lot of computer equipment, so you may want to bring along the CO2 extinguisher or dry chem. Industrial structures get a little trickier, depending on what a particular business manufactures or the service(s) they provide. A dry chem extinguisher is a good choice, but you may also want to consider a class D (metal-X), for instance going into a welding shop, or a class K extinguisher for restaurants. But before you decide what to bring make sure you do a proper size-up. If you have fire blowing out multiple windows, leave the can on the truck. If you arrive with nothing showing, grab the appropriate can.

antiquefirelt, great post. It's an excellent example of foregoing the can. With this said, I would like to take the opportunity to describe an incident where the can was all we needed:
Called out for a water flow alarm in a commercial building, myself and two firefighters walk up the stairs to the second floor where the flow alarm is coming from. Going into the stairwell we had very little information. A scene size-up showed no signs of fire or damage to the building, and the only alarm on the panel was for a water flow on the second floor. Upon emerging from the stairwell we found a significant amount of water flowing down the hallway. Following it upstream we came across a light smoke condition, and came to an office door where the water and smoke was bellowing. We forced entry into the office where we encountered heavy smoke. Thankfully the cubicles acted as river banks, and we continued to follow the water back to a side room (on the #3 side, fourth floor). Inside this room we found a stack of computers that was burning, but contained by the sprinkler head above. The fire was quickly extinguished with the use of a single dry chem extinguisher.
I tell this story not just to show an example of when the can is going to be effective, but also to reinforce that you need to take the correct extinguisher with you. Residential structures are mostly ordinary combustibles, and a water can is fine. Commercial offices tend to have a lot of computer equipment, so you may want to bring along the CO2 extinguisher or dry chem. Industrial structures get a little trickier, depending on what a particular business manufactures or the service(s) they provide. A dry chem extinguisher is a good choice, but you may also want to consider a class D (metal-X), for instance going into a welding shop, or a class K extinguisher for restaurants. But before you decide what to bring make sure you do a proper size-up. If you have fire blowing out multiple windows, leave the can on the truck. If you arrive with nothing showing, grab the appropriate can.

I'm a member of this particular department as well, and I wasn't going to say anything before, but since the egg's been hatched......
There are many issues going on withing the department. It's nothing new, and it's no different than many other departments across the country. The volunteer fire/ems service is notorious for it's roller-coasting, and we are unfortunately at an extremely low point. It's sad. I know. Thankfully we have a mutual aid system that works, and I personally thank the department that covered us for that particular incident.
Now, before you blast me for not actually giving you our side of the story, I regret to inform you that the interdepartmental issues at hand are not anyone else' business. If you happen to be a taxpayer of the district, I suggest talking with the commissioners. As for everyone else, I thank you for the opinions and your input throughout this thread. It will be taken into consideration to help solve our problems.

Also keep an eye out for anything else that looks out of the norm. Many "home-grown" terrorists in the past have used secondary devices to injure and kill firefighters and other first responders who have come to mitigate the original hazard (i.e. the abortion clinic bombings of the 90's). At this rate, definitely expand the isolation zone, maybe even evacuate the entire strip mall if you deem it necessary.
And I completely agree with keeping the distant. I like the idea of the unmanned ladder pipe. If there's no one in the truck, why put our lives at risk for a vehicle that's already destroyed.

Best pager ever: Minitor II. I've had two of them over the years. Both dropped in several puddles, the toilet once (clean water), one dropped off a roof, had it run over by a car, and even went for a ride on the front bumper of my hometown's quint. They never died, never broke, and dried out fairly quickly. I just hope the Swissphones are just as durable.

Hmmm....a police officer is being sued for doing his job? What a load of crap! I can understand that the Henry family is grieving, and how they think that excessive force was used. HOWEVER, PO Hess was being run down by a motor vehicle!!!!!! And to say the shooting was racially motivated? Give me a **CENSORED** break! This is the year 2011. Race (a) doesn't matter anymore, especially since "white" people are now a minority, and (b ) doesn't matter because the "victim" was over the legal limit to drive, a minor, and committing a felony by running down a police officer.
Now, let me play Devil's advocate: What if Danroy, Jr. was white and PO Hess was black? Would Henry's family sue PO Hess because he was angry with white people? Or would they sue because a black officer killed an innocent white man under the extremely racially insensitive precept that white people are innocent? Please note, I am not trying to start a riot, I am not racist in any way/shape/form, and I'm not trying to be insensitive...Just step back and look at it from a different angle. What IF?
And to take it a step further, why does the Henry family need $120 million to ease the grieving. Do they plan on building a memorial or statue made of diamond encrusted titanium? If the family can afford such a legal team to pursue this suit in federal court, I'm pretty sure they can afford the basics, like a grief counselor. Like money is the first thing a rich family needs...I know when my family grieves a keg only costs like $90. Or is that the redneck, simple way of life coming out of my mouth. Money can't replace a loved one. Obviously, if there was some wrong doing on Hess' part, then some damages should be rewarded. But there is no wrong doing on Hess' part, because he was the victim of an alcohol fueled crime scene instigated by many underage drinkers.
PO Hess, if you read this, I'm on your side. Fight them for all they got!!!!

*PERSONAL OPINION* The E-One Titan ARFF vehicle is definitely not one of my favorite E-Ones. We had one here at HPN for a few years, and the truck was a piece of garbage. It was constantly out of service, parts were always breaking, and sometimes it wouldn't even pump! At one point you couldn't even open the driver side door from INSIDE the cab! The upgrade to the Oshkosh Strikers has definitely proven well for us. firedude, thanks for rockin' Airport 11 for you avatar. Looks Good!

As one of the HPN firefighters, I can definitely agree that our disaster drills are, well, disasters. But on the other hand without recurrent training holding these exercises we wouldn't be able to do the job when the time comes. Throughout this thread I've seen a lot of department bashing and extreme opinions. Yes, kudos to the FDNY and the awesome job they did. And, Yes, I'm sure many agencies are thoroughly ready enough to be able to handle at least an initial response to such a disaster. But let's face reality: No one is perfect, and no emergency service is perfect. For the people who boast how "awesome" their departments are, I have two words...KEEP TRAINING! It's the only way you'll ever be ready.

As one of the HPN firefighters, I can definitely agree that our disaster drills are, well, disasters. But on the other hand without recurrent training holding these exercises we wouldn't be able to do the job when the time comes. Throughout this thread I've seen a lot of department bashing and extreme opinions. Yes, kudos to the FDNY and the awesome job they did. And, Yes, I'm sure many agencies are thoroughly ready enough to be able to handle at least an initial response to such a disaster. But let's face reality: No one is perfect, and no emergency service is perfect. For the people who boast how "awesome" their departments are, I have two words...KEEP TRAINING! It's the only way you'll ever be ready.

I come from upstate, where there are more brush fires and the fires are more intense. The difficulty of putting a forest fire is surmountable to that of putting out a structural fire. The manpower needed, water resources, apparatus, etc. Never mind the havoc and chaos that comes with any complex incident.
The use of the master streams at this call happened to work out in Hawthorne's favor. Generally speaking, master streams do not work well in wooded areas. Trees often get in the way and prevent massive water flow. Hand lines work well, but as previously stated in HFD2198's post, they only stretch so far. I'm not saying don't use these resources, it's just that there is a time and place for them. Open fields are better suited for master streams, and hand lines for level-ground wooded areas close to the apparatus.
Also remember that there are many other tools at a firefighter's disposal at wild fires. Rakes and shovels can be used to create small fire breaks against low-to-the-ground grass involvement, and larger fire breaks can be made by cutting down trees and larger vegetation (using chainsaws, bulldozers, etc.). The use of backpack tanks and water cans can go a long way, too. It may also be a good idea to use ATV's or qualified brush trucks or mini-attacks.
As mentioned in several of the previous posts, yes, the presence of live power lines is a major hazard. Remember, though the power line is live, you can safely work around it. It is just like any other hazardous condition, and a perimeter needs to be set up around it before beginning/continuing work on the scene. Setting up that perimeter is crucial to firefighter safety and to the firefighting effort, because an unchecked wild fire, like the one in Hawthorne, can spread fast. In this case it spread quickly up the hill. Stopping a wild fire before it gets to that point requires less resources, never mind the fact that you are saving that much more property, or in a worse scenario, preventing major fire losses.
But the number one thing that everyone needs to remember about wild fires (or any fire for that matter) is that you need people to put it out. If you know the fire is going to get away from you, or if it's already at that point, don't be afraid to call in extra resources. Let's put it into perspective: Would you try to extinguish a fully involved 2 1/2 story wood frame home with just an engine and a ladder? The key to any incident is having enough manpower to accomplish all tasks in your incident action plan. Not all fire departments are self-sufficient, and we all know how many people show up on a [volunteer] first-due at 1400 hours on a Wednesday. I'll reiterate; do not be afraid to call for more resources. Call in the extra staff and equipment early on, because you can always send them back if you don't need them.

I come from upstate, where there are more brush fires and the fires are more intense. The difficulty of putting a forest fire is surmountable to that of putting out a structural fire. The manpower needed, water resources, apparatus, etc. Never mind the havoc and chaos that comes with any complex incident.
The use of the master streams at this call happened to work out in Hawthorne's favor. Generally speaking, master streams do not work well in wooded areas. Trees often get in the way and prevent massive water flow. Hand lines work well, but as previously stated in HFD2198's post, they only stretch so far. I'm not saying don't use these resources, it's just that there is a time and place for them. Open fields are better suited for master streams, and hand lines for level-ground wooded areas close to the apparatus.
Also remember that there are many other tools at a firefighter's disposal at wild fires. Rakes and shovels can be used to create small fire breaks against low-to-the-ground grass involvement, and larger fire breaks can be made by cutting down trees and larger vegetation (using chainsaws, bulldozers, etc.). The use of backpack tanks and water cans can go a long way, too. It may also be a good idea to use ATV's or qualified brush trucks or mini-attacks.
As mentioned in several of the previous posts, yes, the presence of live power lines is a major hazard. Remember, though the power line is live, you can safely work around it. It is just like any other hazardous condition, and a perimeter needs to be set up around it before beginning/continuing work on the scene. Setting up that perimeter is crucial to firefighter safety and to the firefighting effort, because an unchecked wild fire, like the one in Hawthorne, can spread fast. In this case it spread quickly up the hill. Stopping a wild fire before it gets to that point requires less resources, never mind the fact that you are saving that much more property, or in a worse scenario, preventing major fire losses.
But the number one thing that everyone needs to remember about wild fires (or any fire for that matter) is that you need people to put it out. If you know the fire is going to get away from you, or if it's already at that point, don't be afraid to call in extra resources. Let's put it into perspective: Would you try to extinguish a fully involved 2 1/2 story wood frame home with just an engine and a ladder? The key to any incident is having enough manpower to accomplish all tasks in your incident action plan. Not all fire departments are self-sufficient, and we all know how many people show up on a [volunteer] first-due at 1400 hours on a Wednesday. I'll reiterate; do not be afraid to call for more resources. Call in the extra staff and equipment early on, because you can always send them back if you don't need them.