bad box

I agree 'Grumpyff'. I've been a member of the GOP for 35 years. Over that period of time, the GOP has more & more become the party of wealthy CEO's. Early on I wondered why these rich draft dodgers would want a job that paid less than $200,000; then the reason became obvious: the goal of the GOP is to elect a sufficient number of rich corporate types so as to be able to crush the middle class by ridding the country of unions, privatizing government services, ending defined benefit pensions, reducing or eliminating employer support for medical benefits and cutting taxes for wealthy Americans and wealthy corporations on the backs of the middle class. These are the same politicians who sought out every chance for a photo op with their arm around the shoulder of a cop or firefighter post 9/11. They all suck.

I believe that Seagrave submitted a bid that contained many exceptions and, while cheaper, it didn't meet spec and was passed over.
A rig is a rig is a rig....the engine and trans. are the same that Seagrave would have installed. I'm sure that the spec contains some very specific components and, would there-for be the same, not matter who builds it. It's all in the spec.
Could they turn out to be junk? Sure could! That said, I don't know what's so special about the Seagrave either. It's very loud in the back, it rides as though the air in the tires is the only suspension and it's out of service PLENTY. Never mind that it's not even 10 years old and there is rust you could put your finger through.
I have nothing to do with the spec or ordering, but I must say, from the sidelines Ferrara is pretty impressive and eager to show-off. The web-site and photos are encouraging. Looks like someone is taking some pride in their product.

If there were significant problems with Ferrara's ability to construct a reliable rig they would not have been selected. They have a variety of rigs running in several different capacities. Seagraves recent quality and warranty troubles in NYC are well documented. As long as the ladder goes up and the rig rolls, how much does it really matter?

For someone who professes to be, "Young and gung-ho" ... your post shows you to be wise beyond your years. 'Buff stuff' is fine, unfortunately our main function as firefighters is to protect lives and property. This is an awesome task that requires constant training on new issues and techniques as well as continued practice on the skills (bread & butter) that we already should possess. As I was told by a senior man (old-timer) as a brand new Probationary Fireman (that was our job title back then) just out of the fire academy, "Hey kid, this is a dangerous job where we all must rely upon each other for survival. The people who call us for help need us to always be 'on top of our game'. The minute that you think that you have it all figured out and have nothing left to learn, you'll have to make an important decision: either retire or 'get back into the job' and study. Nobody on this job will ever know everything, those who think they do will get them self or somebody else killed." In closing 'JohnnyOV', you sound like you have the right attitude to be a success in this profession. If I wasn't retired, you would be the kind of Firefighter that I would want to have working with me when everything goes to s**t in seconds. Keep your head where it's at, don't be swayed by lazy, negative types!

http://www.historybu...shirtwaist.html
Tomorrow is the 100th Anniversary of this tragedy. Resulted in Strengthening collective bargaining, as well as Building Codes.

http://pelham.patch.com/articles/government-struggles-to-find-budget-dollars-for-pelham-fire-department

Throughout my travels in the fire service, I take note of what gear/equipment used and carried by firemen on a daily basis..and something I see far too little of, is members equipped with personal flashlights. I carry two...a Streamlight Survivor that is a good 18 years old on my coat, and a Power Plus handlight. These lights are with me at all times...for any structural run, fire or not and on all night runs. I will never be without a light by personal design. BOTH were purchased out of my own pocket, as I feel they should be considered a part of your PPE.
So..I pose these questions;
Do you carry a light with you on each run?
If no; why not?
What style light?
How do you wear it?

They appear to be a small group of buffs who have taken their hobby to a ridiculous level. I am not aware of them having any official affiliation with any N.Y.C. agency. It seems like these (Police - Fire - E.M.S. - Search & Rescue - Command Post - Scene Lighting, etc. "Fans", Sparks", "Buffs", "Impostors" ...) have found themselves with too much time on their hands and spare cash in their pockets and decided to purchase a large quantity of official looking stuff (radios, lights, vehicles, etc.). They have creatively lettered their somewhat official looking vehicle to look like an F.D.N.Y. SUV and put together a Facebook page and a website full of photos of the same couple of young looking kids standing in the background at various emergency scenes. How long it will take for the N.Y.P.D. or the Fire Marshall's to look below the surface and figure out that they are not on scene in an official capacity and should not be inside Police or Fire Lines ... They seem to be similar to this 'group': My link

They appear to be a small group of buffs who have taken their hobby to a ridiculous level. I am not aware of them having any official affiliation with any N.Y.C. agency. It seems like these (Police - Fire - E.M.S. - Search & Rescue - Command Post - Scene Lighting, etc. "Fans", Sparks", "Buffs", "Impostors" ...) have found themselves with too much time on their hands and spare cash in their pockets and decided to purchase a large quantity of official looking stuff (radios, lights, vehicles, etc.). They have creatively lettered their somewhat official looking vehicle to look like an F.D.N.Y. SUV and put together a Facebook page and a website full of photos of the same couple of young looking kids standing in the background at various emergency scenes. How long it will take for the N.Y.P.D. or the Fire Marshall's to look below the surface and figure out that they are not on scene in an official capacity and should not be inside Police or Fire Lines ... They seem to be similar to this 'group': My link

They appear to be a small group of buffs who have taken their hobby to a ridiculous level. I am not aware of them having any official affiliation with any N.Y.C. agency. It seems like these (Police - Fire - E.M.S. - Search & Rescue - Command Post - Scene Lighting, etc. "Fans", Sparks", "Buffs", "Impostors" ...) have found themselves with too much time on their hands and spare cash in their pockets and decided to purchase a large quantity of official looking stuff (radios, lights, vehicles, etc.). They have creatively lettered their somewhat official looking vehicle to look like an F.D.N.Y. SUV and put together a Facebook page and a website full of photos of the same couple of young looking kids standing in the background at various emergency scenes. How long it will take for the N.Y.P.D. or the Fire Marshall's to look below the surface and figure out that they are not on scene in an official capacity and should not be inside Police or Fire Lines ... They seem to be similar to this 'group': My link

In the event of major fires, technical rescues and MCI's, Westchester County Departments that border the Bronx can rely upon mutual aid resources from F.D.N.Y.. But, there are probably more areas in N.Y.S. than not that would be hard pressed to deal with a major transportation incident (bus, train, commercial airliner) in a timely ('Golden Hour' ... if they still call it that ...) manner. As pointed out in this thread, such incidents require the immediate response of large numbers of Fire and EMS personnel for scene safety / hazard control, FAST, fire protection, patient care, gaining access, disentanglement, extrication, treatment and transportation of the injured. There are lot's of other issues that also need to be addressed (traffic & crowd control, coroner / temporary morgue, utility company, heavy tow, DOT and the list goes on). As has already been pointed out, this is not a shot at the individual knowledge, skills and dedication of Fire and EMS personnel in such locations ... it's just acknowledging the reality that many areas are not staffed and equipped to do what needs to be done when a 'nightmare' occurs in their response area.

In the event of major fires, technical rescues and MCI's, Westchester County Departments that border the Bronx can rely upon mutual aid resources from F.D.N.Y.. But, there are probably more areas in N.Y.S. than not that would be hard pressed to deal with a major transportation incident (bus, train, commercial airliner) in a timely ('Golden Hour' ... if they still call it that ...) manner. As pointed out in this thread, such incidents require the immediate response of large numbers of Fire and EMS personnel for scene safety / hazard control, FAST, fire protection, patient care, gaining access, disentanglement, extrication, treatment and transportation of the injured. There are lot's of other issues that also need to be addressed (traffic & crowd control, coroner / temporary morgue, utility company, heavy tow, DOT and the list goes on). As has already been pointed out, this is not a shot at the individual knowledge, skills and dedication of Fire and EMS personnel in such locations ... it's just acknowledging the reality that many areas are not staffed and equipped to do what needs to be done when a 'nightmare' occurs in their response area.

July 4th back in the 1980's would generally find F.D.N.Y. strapped for resources due to a tremendous amount of fireworks related structural fires. Even with additional reserve companies in service, the workload was ridiculous. That being said, barring very unusual circumstances the F.D.N.Y. is a tremendous resource that can arrive at an incident within minutes with trained, experienced personnel and the equipment that goes along with it.

In the event of major fires, technical rescues and MCI's, Westchester County Departments that border the Bronx can rely upon mutual aid resources from F.D.N.Y.. But, there are probably more areas in N.Y.S. than not that would be hard pressed to deal with a major transportation incident (bus, train, commercial airliner) in a timely ('Golden Hour' ... if they still call it that ...) manner. As pointed out in this thread, such incidents require the immediate response of large numbers of Fire and EMS personnel for scene safety / hazard control, FAST, fire protection, patient care, gaining access, disentanglement, extrication, treatment and transportation of the injured. There are lot's of other issues that also need to be addressed (traffic & crowd control, coroner / temporary morgue, utility company, heavy tow, DOT and the list goes on). As has already been pointed out, this is not a shot at the individual knowledge, skills and dedication of Fire and EMS personnel in such locations ... it's just acknowledging the reality that many areas are not staffed and equipped to do what needs to be done when a 'nightmare' occurs in their response area.

July 4th back in the 1980's would generally find F.D.N.Y. strapped for resources due to a tremendous amount of fireworks related structural fires. Even with additional reserve companies in service, the workload was ridiculous. That being said, barring very unusual circumstances the F.D.N.Y. is a tremendous resource that can arrive at an incident within minutes with trained, experienced personnel and the equipment that goes along with it.

July 4th back in the 1980's would generally find F.D.N.Y. strapped for resources due to a tremendous amount of fireworks related structural fires. Even with additional reserve companies in service, the workload was ridiculous. That being said, barring very unusual circumstances the F.D.N.Y. is a tremendous resource that can arrive at an incident within minutes with trained, experienced personnel and the equipment that goes along with it.

In the event of major fires, technical rescues and MCI's, Westchester County Departments that border the Bronx can rely upon mutual aid resources from F.D.N.Y.. But, there are probably more areas in N.Y.S. than not that would be hard pressed to deal with a major transportation incident (bus, train, commercial airliner) in a timely ('Golden Hour' ... if they still call it that ...) manner. As pointed out in this thread, such incidents require the immediate response of large numbers of Fire and EMS personnel for scene safety / hazard control, FAST, fire protection, patient care, gaining access, disentanglement, extrication, treatment and transportation of the injured. There are lot's of other issues that also need to be addressed (traffic & crowd control, coroner / temporary morgue, utility company, heavy tow, DOT and the list goes on). As has already been pointed out, this is not a shot at the individual knowledge, skills and dedication of Fire and EMS personnel in such locations ... it's just acknowledging the reality that many areas are not staffed and equipped to do what needs to be done when a 'nightmare' occurs in their response area.

Tom, your faith in Pelham Manor is admirable but be realistic. What does Pelham Manor have on duty, one and one with two guys each? No rescue, no EMS but a contract bus. Mutual aid would get you more stuff but how fast and how organized and disciplined would it be? New Rochelle has a rescue, 3 more guys. FDMV has one (I think), 3 more guys. Call Yonkers and you'll get some real help but its at least 20-25 minutes away if the call was quick. Then what? You can piece together a response but you'll be spending more time figuring out who to call from where then you'll spend being the IC.
Look at what NYC sent to the scene (not counting PD that had at least four ESU trucks there or EMS):
By my rough count its about 120 firefighters including bosses. What would it take to muster that anywhere in Westchester or the rest of the Hudson Valley? Add to that the expertise and experience that the city guys have. Again not a knock on the guys from Westchester but NYC does more in a month than some jobs do in a year.
They had everyone extricated in a hour and I bet most of them transported in that time too. Have you ever been to an airport exercise in Westchester? They can't transport that many people in an hour during an exercise. Imagine reality.

Is this a dig? If so, it's not particularly constructive... In fact, there is nothing funny about it, but it raises a real concern.
This is not to call into question the dedication of a particular organization's firemen, nor their professionalism and drive. Really, it doesn't need to be discussed in relation to ANY particular fire department. What an MCI such as this might highlight is a need for an MCI response plan that includes multiple agencies......or some kind of consolidation to form a larger agency with the means and necessity for more equipment.
I did not respond to this box yesterday, but I was at work and listening. There were an incredible amount of units on the scene to mitigate this disaster. Rescues 3 and 4 operated including, at least Collapse Rescue 3. That's 12 firemen, on top of an entire first alarm assignment. 39 pairs of hands. Add to that a few chief's and their aides, plus ESU and a FAST truck (Which sounds like a good idea to me when you have members working in a large, unstable and overturned bus). Top that off with 10+ EMS units, FDNY RAC 4 with temp. morgue set-up and Haz-Mat 1 to manage the fuel containment. That was all within the first few minutes. Many more followed. I'm sure you can up the tally with a great deal of DOT and Police units.
All of these resources and they had their hands full. These are people used to working together with a great deal of equipment at their disposal. More equipment than most Westchester Dept's. (outside of the bigger cities, Yonkers, NR, ect) have. So, what do you do? Who calls for what units and equipment? This seems like a perfect example of a need to utilize some kind of automatic response matrix with multiple F.D., P.D. and EMS agencies with a predetermined I.C. to maintain organization.
Clearly, and thankfully, this is an oddball event and no one knows exactly what to expect or how to perfectly handle each incident. However, it would be a good idea to consider what MIGHT be needed so that the proper personnel and apparatus are alerted quickly.

This is shameful, but it's what I have come to expect from today's GOP. Politicians like the wimpy, cry baby Rep. John Boehner who have no respect for Cops, Firefighters or the military. He's never placed himself in harm's way to protect his country or another human being. He stood with the GOP when they held The Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Bill hostage while demanding that Democrats join the GOP in extending tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans. After getting the tax breaks for their wealthy corporate campaign supporters, they subsequently cut the funding for Zadroga in half before passing it. BTW, Rep. John Boehner didn't even stay in Washington to vote on the final bill which occurred on December 22nd, 2010. He along with many other GOP rich kids had already gone home to celebrate Christmas with their families. I wonder what it feels like to walk away from your responsibilities as an elected public servant whenever you feel like it, leaving your work undone. As a Firefighter, I wouldn't know that feeling, nor did I ever have the desire to abandon my responsibilities for my personal enjoyment ... Rep. John Boehner is a disgrace.
Thank you for your service to our country Mr. Buckles ... May you rest in peace ...

This is shameful, but it's what I have come to expect from today's GOP. Politicians like the wimpy, cry baby Rep. John Boehner who have no respect for Cops, Firefighters or the military. He's never placed himself in harm's way to protect his country or another human being. He stood with the GOP when they held The Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Bill hostage while demanding that Democrats join the GOP in extending tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans. After getting the tax breaks for their wealthy corporate campaign supporters, they subsequently cut the funding for Zadroga in half before passing it. BTW, Rep. John Boehner didn't even stay in Washington to vote on the final bill which occurred on December 22nd, 2010. He along with many other GOP rich kids had already gone home to celebrate Christmas with their families. I wonder what it feels like to walk away from your responsibilities as an elected public servant whenever you feel like it, leaving your work undone. As a Firefighter, I wouldn't know that feeling, nor did I ever have the desire to abandon my responsibilities for my personal enjoyment ... Rep. John Boehner is a disgrace.
Thank you for your service to our country Mr. Buckles ... May you rest in peace ...

This is shameful, but it's what I have come to expect from today's GOP. Politicians like the wimpy, cry baby Rep. John Boehner who have no respect for Cops, Firefighters or the military. He's never placed himself in harm's way to protect his country or another human being. He stood with the GOP when they held The Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Bill hostage while demanding that Democrats join the GOP in extending tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans. After getting the tax breaks for their wealthy corporate campaign supporters, they subsequently cut the funding for Zadroga in half before passing it. BTW, Rep. John Boehner didn't even stay in Washington to vote on the final bill which occurred on December 22nd, 2010. He along with many other GOP rich kids had already gone home to celebrate Christmas with their families. I wonder what it feels like to walk away from your responsibilities as an elected public servant whenever you feel like it, leaving your work undone. As a Firefighter, I wouldn't know that feeling, nor did I ever have the desire to abandon my responsibilities for my personal enjoyment ... Rep. John Boehner is a disgrace.
Thank you for your service to our country Mr. Buckles ... May you rest in peace ...

The Aerialscope has served the F.D.N.Y. well for many years. It's only a shame that they have a Seagrave rig rather than a Mack CF to attach it to. There is nothing out there that compares to the Mack CF's we used to have ... they were work horses that couldn't be killed.

This is shameful, but it's what I have come to expect from today's GOP. Politicians like the wimpy, cry baby Rep. John Boehner who have no respect for Cops, Firefighters or the military. He's never placed himself in harm's way to protect his country or another human being. He stood with the GOP when they held The Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Bill hostage while demanding that Democrats join the GOP in extending tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans. After getting the tax breaks for their wealthy corporate campaign supporters, they subsequently cut the funding for Zadroga in half before passing it. BTW, Rep. John Boehner didn't even stay in Washington to vote on the final bill which occurred on December 22nd, 2010. He along with many other GOP rich kids had already gone home to celebrate Christmas with their families. I wonder what it feels like to walk away from your responsibilities as an elected public servant whenever you feel like it, leaving your work undone. As a Firefighter, I wouldn't know that feeling, nor did I ever have the desire to abandon my responsibilities for my personal enjoyment ... Rep. John Boehner is a disgrace.
Thank you for your service to our country Mr. Buckles ... May you rest in peace ...

This is shameful, but it's what I have come to expect from today's GOP. Politicians like the wimpy, cry baby Rep. John Boehner who have no respect for Cops, Firefighters or the military. He's never placed himself in harm's way to protect his country or another human being. He stood with the GOP when they held The Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Bill hostage while demanding that Democrats join the GOP in extending tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans. After getting the tax breaks for their wealthy corporate campaign supporters, they subsequently cut the funding for Zadroga in half before passing it. BTW, Rep. John Boehner didn't even stay in Washington to vote on the final bill which occurred on December 22nd, 2010. He along with many other GOP rich kids had already gone home to celebrate Christmas with their families. I wonder what it feels like to walk away from your responsibilities as an elected public servant whenever you feel like it, leaving your work undone. As a Firefighter, I wouldn't know that feeling, nor did I ever have the desire to abandon my responsibilities for my personal enjoyment ... Rep. John Boehner is a disgrace.
Thank you for your service to our country Mr. Buckles ... May you rest in peace ...