sqd47bfd

Just a couple of interesting points in the proposal:
1) They have already calculated that Springdale is onboard even thought they have not signed the agreement. Even if they think thats a done deal, it is premature to put it out there.
2) The total staffing is 6 positions short of what is needed to meet the staffing levels listed.
3) The performance standard includes time, but not personnel. so as long as 1 FF arrives in the time, then they meet the standard.
4) Station Staffing. This is bad policy to list in this contract what the staffing needs to be. having equal staffing sounds nice, but does not give the PAID chief of the volunteer FD enough flexability. If you have 3ff's in a station do they ride on 1, 2 or 3 rigs? It may make more sense to have a 2 man engine in each then group the other 3) two man teams could be assigned to tankers, ladders &/or rescues.
Note: I'm not suggesting that 2 or 3 man rigs are acceptable, just basing it on whats listed.
Whats most interesting is other than they call it a volunteer dept., there is very little mention of volunteers in it (other than the minimum training standard).

Bunch of guys have already told me to do that lol. My plate is a little full right now but ill be sure to stop by

oooooh wow thats extra scary when you type it in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS !!! see what i mean:
charter revision
... meh, whatever.
And now,
CHARTER REVISION !!!
well, thats just plain frightening! apocalypse! head for the hills!

oooooh wow thats extra scary when you type it in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS !!! see what i mean:
charter revision
... meh, whatever.
And now,
CHARTER REVISION !!!
well, thats just plain frightening! apocalypse! head for the hills!

Keeping true to our witty nautical banter...
Rumor is the plan is headed to Davy Jones locker. I've tried to work in a beasties boy reference as well but just gave up.

The truck has 6 seats, I would deem it "fully staffed" with 6 interior qualified firefighters.
Which, I have seen on a regular basis, T45 respond with all seats full.
And we left qualified guys behind in the barn.
Kinda nice, dontchathink?
On to the IC comment, without good strategy and tactics, an IC can end up micromanaging, which I think is counterproductive.
This is how we get the truck stretching the backup line and a 2nd or 3rd due engine on the roof.
My link

Word.

Word.

Wouldnt it be something if this could actually be produced?

haha, well no I haven't seen the mountain lion. But I'll report it here first if I do!
Seriously though I don't know why it's so hard to believe. I mean SFRD's higher ups have been the ones that were first saying it existed, as a reason for disallowing the volunteer departments' paid staff to continue helping their old departments. Ask Keatly, as it's addressed to him!

Are you calling me liar? I'm not commenting about its importance or FSLA or any of that. Just confirming its existance.

Sqd47bfd Dont you charter that Boat called Captain Stabbin????

And now to actually add to the topic. The can is a very important tool, as was stated before. As a minimum, the can does make a good door chock. At its most, it can put out a lot of fire. Or a little fire. I have used the can many times for small waste basket fires, smoldering fires, etc. In Stamford, the can goes on every investigation, unless the call deserves another extinguisher. Usually a water can or two makes it in for every call, with good reason. What may start as a grease fire, electrical fire, etc, will usually start class A materials on fire. If, during the course of investigation you discover a fire, the can is there to keep things in check until the next engine company or your partner can start getting a line in position. If the can get help you shut a door, use short blasts high up to darken the fire enough to close the door.
If you are assigned to the floor above, the can is essential if a handline has not been put in position on your floor. Any embers coming up through void spaces in a balloon frame structure can be held in check this way. Obviously a handline is the best option, but the Can can get there faster and is more agile.

As an example of the above, and since I pick apart a lot of what I see here:
My crew ran on this reported apartment building fire last week. On arrival, fire out one window on the second floor-side #4 and just starting to take the rear porch door on side #3 just around the 3-4 corner. Entry through side #1 (front) to the common hall door the fire apartment (second floor rear). The conditions in the second floor hall were zero smoke, zero heat, 6 doors. The rear apt. entry door was bubbling and popping with a faint wisp of smoke at the top. The crew could have taken the door immediately attempted to make a search and hold the fire with the can, remembering the fire was out a single window and nearly adjacent door. Instead it was decided that the line would be placed to the door before entry. While the line was stretched the adjacent apartment was searched and found untouched even though it sheared two common walls with the fire apartment. Once the line as in placed the door was forced (also found to be seasonally closed off and not used) the condition in the common hall when to zero visibility and moderate heat at the 2-3 foot level. The line advanced quickly and knocked down the fire with seemingly relative ease. What the crew did not see was that while the stretch was taking place, the fire took the side #3 door and another window on side #3, in two separate rooms and as the door was forced completely lit off the rear porch. The point being, what looked like a fire that the can may have be able to subdue temporarily, likely was not a good candidate. The added volume of air allowed the fire to greatly intensify rapidly and without the 180 gpm line immediately flowing things could have been far different. The end result was things went very well and aside from minor water damage to the unit directly below the fire, only the fire apartment was uninhabitable by the next evening. I can honestly say if it weren't for solid core doors and solid(no holes) lathe and plaster and adequate sheetrock, the outcome would have a bit worse.
BTW for anyone from Elmont LI, the fire was reported by a new Coast Guard kid who used to be a member of EFD L2? Did a nice job alerting residents and giving the Chief a nice report on arrival. I think the USCG Base Commander here is putting up for a commendation with our support.

This was just after arrival.(Side 3)

While crews are making entry (not our ground ladder!)

Just after entry to fire apartment
photos by Rockland FD Photographer Alan Athearn

So many thoughts on this so hopefully this is somewhat followable. The original poster was prompted to ask his questions based off the medal day book. So on that fact I will say this I think it is dangerous for most departments to attempt to operate like the FDNY. We have the ability to put a lot of firefighters on the scene very quickly and probably unparalleled. That combined with strong SOPs that spell out where everyone goes and what they do based on the building type and location of the fire put us in a unique situation. This is in no way a knock on any other department but I think your procedures and risk management need to be based on your staffing, experience level, and what you face. In a majority of cases I believe small departments should concentrate on putting all their initial effort on placing the first line in operation. Even in the case of people trappped unless you know exactly where they are the best course of action may still be to get water on the fire.
As for the can as a truck officer when I enter an apartment prior to the line which is frequently the case when the fire is on the upper floor since the engine will be delayed in the long stretch I usually bring the can firefighter with me and leave the irons firefighter at the door (inside holding the door closed). The can allows us to knock down fire very well. As long as the fire has not flashed over the can will have an impact. The can is very effective at pushing fire back and allowing us to close doors. And in the etreme cases where protection is needed to effect a rescue the can is handy. Passing fire is a very dangerous move and should probably be reserved for known victims.

Well here's another quick update from always sunny Kandahar Afghanistan.
The past week has seen us relatively busy running about 5 calls a day on the structural side of the house. Most of these are smells and bells calls which have turned out to be nothing. My conrades on the crash side have had a few calls as well a day, mostly hot brakes although they did get an engine fire on a fully armed Harrier yesterday. All turned out well.
Now for us structural boys yesterday was for us a busy one. 15 calls ,only two of which involved any actual fire though. Both of these were vehilcle fires. The first was a Humvee with the engine compartment going, which was doused immediately. The other was a large "Jingle" truck/tanker hauling fuel. A 'jingle truck" by the way is what the locals use to transport material. They are so called because the exterior of the vehicle is adorned with small bells and murals depicting any number of religious or cultural scenes. Anyway this particular Jingle had the cab rolling good and impinging on the loaded tank on arrival We hit the cab fire while cooling the tank and all ended well...for us. The driver on the other hand lost his indentity cards in the fire as was thus escorted off base by the MPs after a brief interrogation.
We have had a number of rockets come in of late. no injuries or fatalities and only minor damage. During these episodes we are routed to the sector points closest to the impact zone to stand by, under cover of a bunker of course, until the all clear is given and we then do what needs doing. Of course in the event of injuries we are expected and have in the past responded into the "hot" zone while under fire. But of late that hasn't been necessary.
I also got the opportunity the other day to go to a part of the base I had not yet seen. This is on the Northside. As we drove along checking our EMPs (emergency water points) in the 125 degree midafternoon sunshine it dawned on me that "hey, we at the wire". And sure enough we were, not more that 10ft from Talibanistan. I watched as some local shepards tended their flocks a mere 100 ft away. They waved and we waved back and everyone was all smiles....of course I was thinking something entirely different like "is this guy trying to find a hole in the wire"? Well not to worry there were guard towers aplenty and guards to man them too. But it did make for an interesting afternoon diversion.
One more note and this is a sad one. Yesterday saw two ramp ceremonies next door to the main fire station on the airfield. We happened to be there for both occassions so I attended with the permission of our Chief. For those who do not know, a ramp ceremony is held when the body of one of our soldiers is loaded aboard an aircraft, in this case C-17s, for his final trip home. While one of these ceremonies was ongoing I saw two medivacs choppers as well as a C-130 dropping off more wounded. Our Fire Station is adjacent to the hospital. It is these tragic events that bring the reality of what our boys endure here front and center. God Bless em.
Unfortunately I don't have any pictures as of yet to share, but when I do I will post them. Of course due to security we are extremely limited as to what we can and cannot share, but I'm sure you all understand.
Thanks to all for serving back home, especially my fellow " Belltown Boys"...ATW since 1928
Stay Safe
Cogs

Lets stick to the circumstances in Stamford. A lot has been said about the decline in volunteerism nationwide, and in Stamford. I can say firsthand that Belltown has bucked that trend. And I have seen an increase in membership in TOR, and have been told that Long Ridge is increasing it's ranks as well.
Nationwide, how have other departments dealt with a decrease in volunteerism? By instituting retention programs.
Why hasnt this been done in Stamford, why can't it be done in Stamford, why does it seem that in the current SVFD plan it is an afterthought?
With that being said, I think there is a better way than the way they are going about this now. There should be a plan that protects current SFRD employees with no demotions or layoffs, and still has measures to include volunteers and has mechanisms in place to cause the ranks to grow. If it takes some incentives, what is wrong with that?
Society and people have changed. Altruism is in short supply.

Lets stick to the circumstances in Stamford. A lot has been said about the decline in volunteerism nationwide, and in Stamford. I can say firsthand that Belltown has bucked that trend. And I have seen an increase in membership in TOR, and have been told that Long Ridge is increasing it's ranks as well.
Nationwide, how have other departments dealt with a decrease in volunteerism? By instituting retention programs.
Why hasnt this been done in Stamford, why can't it be done in Stamford, why does it seem that in the current SVFD plan it is an afterthought?
With that being said, I think there is a better way than the way they are going about this now. There should be a plan that protects current SFRD employees with no demotions or layoffs, and still has measures to include volunteers and has mechanisms in place to cause the ranks to grow. If it takes some incentives, what is wrong with that?
Society and people have changed. Altruism is in short supply.

Cogs,
I'm sure that SFRD units from their current stations (E1, E6 and E7) could respond into the area of the Belltown fire district and meet the NFPA standards for response time and personel. Belltown would not be without protection.

I cannot nor would I argue the fact that at present the VFDs..all of them...rely on SFRD to differing degrees for assistance at working fires. It is the goal of the SVFD plan to alleviate that situation dramatically. Will it succeed? I do not know but I will say that I agree in principle that hiring 47 additional FFs for up North will not be the end all be all of solving the issue. It will take a considerable effort in recruitment and retention of volunteers to meet the staffing needs of the future. Unlike many I do believe that this is possible given enough support from the City in making it so, For me though, to garner that support the come as you please response mode must cease and a formalized duty schedule implemented. We will see.
Cogs

So this SVFD plan goes through, what happens immediately? There are still not enough volunteers for that set up to work, as you say there has to be recruitment and retention of volunteers to meet the staffing needs. So basically you are admitting that the plan is not set up to work, not at least until they get a bunch of volunteers, train them and give them the incentives to stay, do have that right? So this plan might work in the future, IF they can recruit enough volunteers to pull shifts. Until then, you will just use the SFRD as a cruch. It may work in Belltown, but the residents of TOR, Long Ridge, and of course Springdale are NOT getting the kind of commitment that Belltown has put forth. I am still amazed that you would rather associate yourselves with the other 3 VFD's only to keep SFRD out. A true volunteer FD that responds to 100% of its' calls, trains regularly, yet is getting lumped in with the other departments that do not even respond to all their calls. Do you really believe that the other departments will step up and follow Belltown's lead or is more likely that the paid drivers will respond and the volunteers will continue to pick and choose wich calls they go on, and because SFRD will not be responding the need or desire to respond just to cancell the downtown unit will be gone as well as the need to show up for the medical call or activated alarm? Only time will tell.
And my apologies for not realizing that ALL the equipment and buildings were purchased using soley donated money.

There, fixed it for ya.

And it is this aspect that Cogs's idea for duty staffing by the volunteers solves. If a volunteer is in quarters on a duty shift, he has to respond. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Solves the problem, don't you think?
But then again you no longer would be able to throw this little "they pick and choose calls" barb out there anymore either. What a tragedy.

So does this mean that the volunteers from Belltown will respond to TOR's fire house for a call in that district and take a TOR machine and visa versa? Or basically is this just a glorified mutual aid agreement? If so, basically everything is the same as it currently operates. Belltown will respond into TOR's district with BFD's equipment and so on and so on. I guess that way when TOR doesn't respond, they can say "But we did, they just came from our Belltown station." Good smoke and mirror show.

What kind of Bunker gear do you wear over there???. I'm sweating just thinking about what answer your gonna give me.
I'll send a Colony pie over to you...I bet you don't want Hot peppers or Hot Oil!!! C'mon 130 degrees that's child play!!!!

Hopefully your not serious about bringing a charged line into your house alone if it catches fire.