BBBMF

Simply put, NY is a home rule state. So when you say fire, whoever the chief is gets to decide who gets to play. Until this changes, nothing is ever going to change. We can all disect this job til we are blue in the face, but until then, we all know that nothing is going to change.
It nothing against anyone, its a simple product of our state and the way its run and governed. Consolidation would be great and benificial, but until it happens nothing is going to change.
If your the chief, pick any department and have them dispatched. Hopefully they show up with enough people that know what they are doing. If not, ill call another department nd put you to work anyway.
We all know the system is flawed. Its not going to change. How bout we start talking about how to actually try and consolidate instead of asking why four departments went to a job instead of one?
End result, the fire went out. One department, 20 departments, doesn't matter. Everyone went home at the end of the tour, that's what matters. Chiefs and their fiefdoms, not going to change until someone has the balls to stand up and say its BS and then actually do something about it.
End of story/rant.

ALSfirefighter gets awarded 2 gold stars for humility....
Nice job to everyone to for taking time out of their daily lives to help others in their most trying moments!

Just a quick side bar...
1. Whenever using an aerial ladder for an exterior operation or any operation where a handline will be placed on the ladder, make sure you throw a few hose straps on to secure the line in the middle of the aerial. Putting that amount of weight and pressure all to one side can cause a failure.
2. Make sure the aerial is supplied by two completely different water supplies because a sudden complete loss of water can shock load an aerial also causing a catastrophic failure!
3. Never lay an aerial into a window or on any object when you can only get one rail to align and touch. A sudden chock load i.e. victim jumping onto the ladder) will cause failure and make cause the rig to overturn. (happened to ladder 108 in Brooklyn)
4. If you need to short-jack always position your rig on an angle to increase space for the outrigger being set on the working side and always short-jack on the non-operational side

Just a quick side bar...
1. Whenever using an aerial ladder for an exterior operation or any operation where a handline will be placed on the ladder, make sure you throw a few hose straps on to secure the line in the middle of the aerial. Putting that amount of weight and pressure all to one side can cause a failure.
2. Make sure the aerial is supplied by two completely different water supplies because a sudden complete loss of water can shock load an aerial also causing a catastrophic failure!
3. Never lay an aerial into a window or on any object when you can only get one rail to align and touch. A sudden chock load i.e. victim jumping onto the ladder) will cause failure and make cause the rig to overturn. (happened to ladder 108 in Brooklyn)
4. If you need to short-jack always position your rig on an angle to increase space for the outrigger being set on the working side and always short-jack on the non-operational side

Just a quick side bar...
1. Whenever using an aerial ladder for an exterior operation or any operation where a handline will be placed on the ladder, make sure you throw a few hose straps on to secure the line in the middle of the aerial. Putting that amount of weight and pressure all to one side can cause a failure.
2. Make sure the aerial is supplied by two completely different water supplies because a sudden complete loss of water can shock load an aerial also causing a catastrophic failure!
3. Never lay an aerial into a window or on any object when you can only get one rail to align and touch. A sudden chock load i.e. victim jumping onto the ladder) will cause failure and make cause the rig to overturn. (happened to ladder 108 in Brooklyn)
4. If you need to short-jack always position your rig on an angle to increase space for the outrigger being set on the working side and always short-jack on the non-operational side

Just a quick side bar...
1. Whenever using an aerial ladder for an exterior operation or any operation where a handline will be placed on the ladder, make sure you throw a few hose straps on to secure the line in the middle of the aerial. Putting that amount of weight and pressure all to one side can cause a failure.
2. Make sure the aerial is supplied by two completely different water supplies because a sudden complete loss of water can shock load an aerial also causing a catastrophic failure!
3. Never lay an aerial into a window or on any object when you can only get one rail to align and touch. A sudden chock load i.e. victim jumping onto the ladder) will cause failure and make cause the rig to overturn. (happened to ladder 108 in Brooklyn)
4. If you need to short-jack always position your rig on an angle to increase space for the outrigger being set on the working side and always short-jack on the non-operational side

If something had been done he closest dry hydarant would have been closer than 1 mile away.
and Depts. would have turbo drafts (which have been around the fire service since at least the 1950's)
and depts would look at hydraulic pumps for rural water supply. Thats how its done in Europe (they do not use and tankers) and now FDNY has it (in case they lose hydrants). I have talked about it for years, but very few depts even understand it. The unit is the size of a skid pump, will fit in a pick-up costs about $40,000 and will deliver 2,400gpm without drafting, from 100-200' away from the pump with lifts up to 90 feet. If anyone wants to see it, give me a call, we have one. The larger units will deliver 2,000gpm up to 2 miles with out relay pumping. Thats 1 rig and it costs less than a class A pumper and to pack up the 2 milues of hose requres only a 3 man crew.
According to the radio reports it took them 28 minutes to find a water source. They should be marked out and maped out 31 years ago. Thats how rural FD's get ISO ratings of 4.
At 49 minutes E113 anounced they were establishing a water supply (relay) but after 11 minutes 2403 said he would run the adapter down to them. If you do not have the equipment to use the hydrants (wet or dry) what good are they? This issue did not just occur at the time of the fire, its been out there since the day they installed the hydrant.
After 72 minutes on scene they relized that PD cars were interfering with tanker ops. This was not noticed for 72 minutes?
At 112 minutes on scene they started to establish a 1.5 mile 5" line (E112)
20 minutes later the source engine (E113) announced they were ready to flow water.
They got to the hydrant at 1421 hours and they were ready to flow water at 1556 hours....thats 1 hour and 35 minutes to hook up a hydrant. 12 minutes later E142 said they were ready for the water.
Now this line was laid so as it blocked out the tankers, so at the 2 hour 26 minute mark any water supply you had was elliminated.
at 1613 water is flowing from E113 and 7 minutes later its realized that there is not enough pump pressure for this water source to work. so 31 minutes later its shut down so E140 can be added to the "relay". Why wasent this done from the start? This is basic pump operators class.
One of the best relay tricks I have seen is pre-established distance markers
from a water source, Its great to watch 4 rigs simultaniously dropping different sections of a relay and all works.
At 2 hour 40 minutes on-scene Bat 13 announced they had good water. Its amazing the house lasted as long as it did.

But my little department is MINE. I don't want to be part of a department that is 10 times bigger and busier because I may not have enough votes to stay chief and keep my car and other perks. I like being the big fish in my little pond. Why would I want to be a medium sized fish in a big pond. Or worse a little fish in a big pond.
I'm special in my department. I wouldn't be so special in a bigger one. :angry:
So what if it would save the taxpayer money and give us more guys on every call. That's not why I signed up for this!

I think training is the key but mindset becomes important. It is how you approach all the calls and things you do. You need to take the calls you do seriously. You need to practice laying lines and stretching, putting up ladders. You need to do what ifs at the calls you do go to and without a doubt you need to learn the lessons of others. I always though a good company was not only a good company at a fire but they showed their professionalism at a gas leak. When you see the senior firefighter discussing with the new members what the roof and OV would do before taking up from a minor incident you see the real good tradition of the fire service. I hope some of what I just said makes some sense.

ALSfirefighter gets awarded 2 gold stars for humility....
Nice job to everyone to for taking time out of their daily lives to help others in their most trying moments!

ALSfirefighter gets awarded 2 gold stars for humility....
Nice job to everyone to for taking time out of their daily lives to help others in their most trying moments!

Over a mile of 5" inch supply line? How long did this take to establish? How much apparatus was required? How much manpower for this laying line operation?
Only my input but! By the looks of South Salem it appears to be a Rural Department. No dependable hydrant system but a good amount of lakes in close proximity to fire. BUT THEY SAID NO GOOD WATER SUPPLY?
Photo's of the fire show a lake with dock behind structure. Another lake across the street with driveway access.
I'm sorry but it just sounds like poor planning to me? The water supply was there. Photo shows portable pumps on a dock, drafting from a lake BEHIND THE HOUSE, supplying water. Again this appaears to me to be a RURAL DEPARTMENT with water supply issue's. This was a great way to move water. The source was right there. Pre-planning is a must especially in rural area's.
What about purchasing some (TURBO-DRAFTS)?
Portable pump drafting thru a Turbo Draft, pumping thru a couple of length's of 5" hose to supply either apparatus or portable dump pools. I noticed in the department's web site they own what appears to be a Brush Truck with mounted pump. This is a great resource for driving down the opposite drive way to the other lake and supplying thru another Turbo Draft to an engine on the street. 150 foot driveway.
I have used these Turbo Drafts and you'll be amazed at the amount of water you could supply, especially thru portable pumps. Nice looking apparatus is fine, but if you can't supply water quickly and pre-plan then why are we here? Sorry for my rant.

ALSfirefighter gets awarded 2 gold stars for humility....
Nice job to everyone to for taking time out of their daily lives to help others in their most trying moments!

Kid, just listen to the chief.
I appreciate that you like fire trucks. I like fire trucks too. I like getting paid to ride on them and I like looking at pictures of them on Emtbravo. I also appreciate that you're new. I was once new as well, in fact it wasn't that long ago. Someday, you might be sitting in a fire truck and look around the cab of the big fancy engine they bought you and see a 65 year old man driving and a 80 year old fire police in the back. Or you might be fortunate enough to get on a paid job and have one other guy with you or you might even be by yourself. And you will not care how many red trucks are coming but rather what the hell are you going to do with what you've got.

This is an interesting thread. IMO it really does a lot to demonstrate the mindset held by many members of the Fire Service in this region which is such a disservice to those we are sworn to protect and to our own fellow Firefighters....with the exception of helicoppers question regarding manpower (and he is a cop, not a Firefighter), and one other question and answer in regard to White Plains manpower, the whole thread so far is all about how many apparatus respond, with no mention of personnel.
Guys, Firefighters put out fires...Firefighters who are adequately trained and certified for interior firefighting and physically capable. A certain amount and type of apparatus, of course, is necessary, however, listing how many apparatus respond to structure fires is not only worthless in terms of assessing a department's capabilities, it is misleading.

Couple of good things to look at in these photos.
Car fires become pretty routine and this one presented itself with some unusual concerns. The most obvious, of course, is the exposure issue. It's inevitable that you push the fire a bit as you put the hose line on it. Another is that you'd like to attack a care fire at an angle and that wasn't really possible here. Lastly, looks like the truck did a nice job clearing some shingles and what not from the side of the house. Good overhaul.
Nice job by NRFD.

It's an interesting situation and I applaud them for taking a stand. Many many many jobs use OT to avoid hiring and this reinforces the fact that they're understaffed. They've laid off members and filled their shifts with OT. Now the refusal of OT points out two things - they need more people and OT can't be relied upon to guarantee coverage.
It's not about their pay or the desire/need for OT. It's about standing together and trying to improve working conditions, an act seldom seen in the EMS community where we happily step over the still warm body of our brethren to take their shift or fill a position. There is little if any solidarity in EMS.

Do you really feel that way with your statement? There comes a point when we must draw a line in the sand. Have you ever come off a real $h!tty 24 and said I need my 72 to recoup? Don't you think we want to spend quality time with our families? Don't you think that the fun of the siren and horns wears off after time and we really are at work? There is a thought in the fire service that we can reduce the number of employees to a certain number when it will becomes cost effective to hire overtime to man the spots and save on the benefits. This is a fact and it will work. Do you want to work every other day 24, away from your wife and kids ( some of you will answer yes ) and not have any kind of life? I don't and I am sure my Brothers from Scranton don't. So the fact is we are not millionaires who have money to burn. We want to get away from the crap for a few before we have to dive back in.

Although I am in no way involved in the Fire Service, I think the idea of egos in Westchester is a problem that affects the 3 main emergency service fields (Police, Fire, & EMS) to varying degrees. I think first we have to understand why the egos exist before we can start coming up with feasible ways to eitehr get rid of them or circumvent them.
I think there are two main reasons egos exist. First being that generally people involved in any of the emergency service fields are typically "Type A" personality individuals. True professionals have the ability to remain calm, cool, and collected, even when the world around us may be falling apart, and do what needs to be done to get the job done. Our services are routinely sought upon by those in need; and it's this dependance on us not just as a service, but as individuals that builds our egos. Knowing that we can do certain things that most ordinary people can't, are empowered with certain responsibilities that most people aren't, and knowing that there is a dependance on us and the services we provide all adds to our egos. Where would society be without Police Officers who maintain order, enforce laws, provide society's blanket of security and stand guard to protect those who can't protect themselves? Where would we be without Firefighters to prevent and extinguish fires and provide lifesaving rescue services? Where would be without EMS providers who nowadays utilize an expanded scope of practice to provide emergency medical care to sick and injured persons, and transport these individuals to definitive care? Our professions (whether paid or volunteer)by their very nature are ego-boosters for some and fuels the "Type A" personality individual.
I think the second reason egos exist here in Westchester is because of the dynamics of the emergncy service "system" (if we can even call it that) that we have created for ourselves here. The adage of "too many chiefs and not enough indians" is extremely prevalent here in every service. To simply state it, when you have 70 different agencies across the county (a ficitious number just for sake of my opinion/arguement), each with individuals who have hopefully come up through the ranks and invested time and experience to obtain positions as Officers/Management/Administration, with each bump up the "emergency service food chain" comes the potential for a bump in an individuals ego. When subordinates continually refer to an indivdiual as Lieutenant, or Captain, or Chief, sometimes it goes to people's heads. When individuals are in charge of running an agency and feel that they are the greatest thing to come along to their agency in the past 100 years, the title and position has gone to their head. When people think that their agency can't possibly survive without their "expertise", the position has gone to their head. The truth of the matter is that in reality, any one of us is replaceable. Some may do a better job then others, but no single person is that important that their job can't be just done as well, if not better, by the next guy (or gal). I can even see how the perks of having a Department car can, and does, go to some peoples heads, because, especially in smaller communities, a Fire Chief driving around is his/her marked Chiefs Car becomes a figure head within their community. What can this lead to? A boost in one's ego. So now you want to tell an individual, who may have given 15 years of dedicated service to their local FD and finally made it to a Chief position, to be open to the idea of consolidation and/or regionalization. Of course there's going to be resistance to the idea of it, because this individual is now saying to themselves, wait a minute, I just dedicated 15 years of MY life to MY FD, and now they want ME to consolidate and take away MY Chiefs car, possibly take away MY title, take away MY power and authority that I worked for and deserve, etc (see the pattern there). It doesn't go over so well with a lot of people. But we created this mess ourselves by creating 70 different agencies within one County and adopting an "every man for himself" mentality. Even in EMS in Westchester, you have some individuals who have worked hard to create positions for themselves as EMS administrators overseeing EMS systems that they worked hard to set-up. Will they be willing to give up their system that they worked hard for to now become a part of a regionalized system where they may not have the same perks (i.e. pay, title, take home car, etc)? I don't know, maybe some will, but I have a feeling the majority won't. I don't want any of them who are reading this to take offense, because I know that most did work hard and deserve to get to where they are, and I can't fault them for looking out for themselves and developing a career out of EMS in a County where EMS is so fragmented and dissheveled.
So how do we get rid of, or circumvent, egos in Westchester County? Like a previous poster said, it's gonna take a whole lot of people to put aside their pride, perks, and tradition to start looking to improve the system as a whole county-wide and not just within the borders of their Town. Is it possible, maybe. But it has to start with changing the mindset of our rookie Cops, Firefighters, and Paramedics for things to change. It's hard to change someone's perspectives and thoughts who's been in the same FD for 50 years and is so resistant to change and has fallen into a mindset that is against consolidation and regionalization because it's a concept that takes away from each individuals fiefdom. The newcomers coming on to the emergency service fields are the future of emergency services in Westchester. Whatever mentality they adopt from the time they come in is only going to become more solidified in their minds as the years go on. We can "groom" them to the benefits of consolidation and regionalization and looking at improving the system beyond the borders of their town, and make these individuals more open to the thought of doing such as they move up the ladder, gain more experience, and become more influential. I believe what would really have to happen to see any kind of change in the near future in any way, is pressure from politicians and the public, as well as legislation and more governing powers at the County level to control emergency services. Now I'm not up to the par with the legality of County government being able to control FD or EMS within it's geographic boundaries, so if this is even feasible is beyond my knowledge, I merely stating my opinion.
End of my rant, these are just my personal opinions, some may agree, some may not, but I think the idea of abolishing egos is one that is definitely an uphill battle in a field where egos are as abundant as the stars.

The root of all the problems in Westchester can be completely eliminated with the removal of one single thing, county-wide.
EGOS

Joey D to sum up was a man who was the definition of the fire service...Always there to help anybody and everybody through everything. Always into the job, always looking to train and find ways to better the fire service. A true buff. He makes me proud to say i am a firefighter. He will sadly be missed but will always be remembered!
Rest in peace Lt. Joe DiBernardo

Why do they report who struck the Officer? Is it really neccessary to do this, knowing she's probably dealing with enough already?!
Focus should be on the officer and his recovery.
I almost feel like this thread should be deleted... it has no benefit to anyone involved.

9 chiefs cars, 7 or 8 engines, tower ladder, bronto skylift, 3 rescues, brush truck, 3 boats, and god knows how many utilities...I think Seths right on this one...Time for Consolidation!
If they had a fire and each department rolled with their first due engine and a crew you'd probably get two or threee good crews as an attack engine, water supply engine, and a bunch of guys to do truck work
100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress!

9 chiefs cars, 7 or 8 engines, tower ladder, bronto skylift, 3 rescues, brush truck, 3 boats, and god knows how many utilities...I think Seths right on this one...Time for Consolidation!
If they had a fire and each department rolled with their first due engine and a crew you'd probably get two or threee good crews as an attack engine, water supply engine, and a bunch of guys to do truck work
100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress!

9 chiefs cars, 7 or 8 engines, tower ladder, bronto skylift, 3 rescues, brush truck, 3 boats, and god knows how many utilities...I think Seths right on this one...Time for Consolidation!
If they had a fire and each department rolled with their first due engine and a crew you'd probably get two or threee good crews as an attack engine, water supply engine, and a bunch of guys to do truck work
100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress!