x4093k

a few more, CAFS appliance and valves, rear folding steps with built in LED lighs

getting closer to completion, shots I took on Friday, headed down again this coming Friday, most of the lighting had been installed, red/white Whelen M6's on front bumper and grill and body sides, Whelen M9's on the rear with Whelen 900 scene lights at rear, wheel chocks/extinguisher/flares compartment completed, valves being installed under the cab,

A buddy of mine at the county says that they couldn't fly because all the pilots have been reassigned to patrol for the summer to reduce overtime. He also said overtime is out of control so it ain't working.
Way to go Westchester, ground your chopper during the busiest time of the year so you can claim to be saving money. Smart move! Remember this stupidity on election day.

HUH?

You may need to define "custom". While I agree that there are "tankers" that are really pumpers with a big booster and are way more than is needed or can be handled. Cab over designes (which are often considered custom, but do not need to be) out perform the others because of their manuverability.
The real issue with tankers is always what is its gpm delivery rate per mile? Almost every dept without municipal hydrants that has moved from ISO 9 to 4, 5 or 6 had three things in common;
1) high performance tankers - faster fill and dump times, better manuverability and the ability to fill and dump with a maximum of 2 people, with the driver staying in the cab. Many of the "standard" commercil units saved money, but did not perform well.
2) Standardization of all tankers. Same amount of water, same dump & fill times.
3) Training, Training, preplaning, and more training

While I see what you're saying, I think you might be over looking some the benefits of using a "custom" (purpose built cab over) chassis for most large apparatus applications. Custom (for the purpose of this discussion) chassis offer much better occupant safety in accidents. The frequency of accidents is greater, making this valuable point to consider spending the extra money. As you said, the FD's using tankers often have a smaller run volume and thus less operator experience, and even still a generally less rigorous driver training program. Add in some adrenaline and you have a recipe for a tanker involved accident. Why not at least acknowledge the increased risks and enhance the safety of the personnel on the rig? Also as Bnechis noted, the cabover design tends to be more maneuverable which is typically advantageous in rural settings.
Of course there are ways to minimize the risks of tanker accidents that should be undertaken as well, given the amount of potential from the weight of tanker apparatus. It has always been my belief tankers over 1200 gal. should not have emergency lights or audibles, but utilize yellow lights and respond with the flow of traffic minimizing some of the greater risks. But even if everything else was perfect I'd still prefer the apparatus that was most likely to protect the occupants best.

I spent a few years in a volly dept. that purchased two new Pierce engines on Kenworth chassis. They were fantastic, I mean really fantastic. They were 40% cheaper than any of Pierce's cab-over custom builds and all the cab and chassis parts are more accessible and cheaper to obtain locally. Need a new door? There's a Kenworth dealer 10 minutes away. Length is certainly increased, but this isn't an issue for many Westchester Departments. I can only speak to areas I'm familiar with, but Westchester, and L.I. collectively spend and offensive amount on apparatus. A lot of money could be saved purchasing commercial chassis.......but, I know, that's not "cool" looking.

To join the WCTRT you must be trained to the minimum of BRT which is a NYS course, be 21 and have taken FF or other (have some non-fire people i.e.; PD, EMS, Engineers, Surgeons, etc.) training, passed the annual NFPA/OSHA medical and have SCBA clearances for interior operations. Training continues with utilizing NYS Technical Rescue courses same as everyone else. WCTRT members progress from awareness to operational to technician as they take courses. They have varying amounts of awareness, operational and technical level responders in each of the seven TRT areas and meet all NFPA standards. The twice monthly are drills to maintain and refresh training based on the NYS courses and are usually under the guidance of a NYS instructor. Two years ago WCTRT were called about 12 times in one year and responded with over 20 technician level responders for each of the calls, with more operational and awareness level members. WCTRT went on structural collapses, trench rescues, swift water/Flood rescues, wilderness SAR, confined space, high angle rope rescues, etc. It was a busy year, but since then responses have averaged 4-6 per year which is what was anticipated. WCTRT also have been dispatched regionally by the state during storm and resultant flood waters and the state recognizes WCTRT have "come a long way in a short time”. Our apparatus & equipment is incredible in how it has grown and we have been trained on all of the various apparatus. Includes the MEC rail cars were we can access rail lines during TRT or haz mat calls. START training gave us technician & specialist T-T-T level training prior to initiation county-wide. The present 20-40 responders on each of the calls is typical and we can call on more if the call is extended. We have gone through 3 sets of 50 to 100 technicians prior to the present (4th round of) staffing which is between 50-100 averaging approximately 75. In the ideal world we would like to keep all of the people however, people and lives change and the pay is not so good. Most of our equipment and apparatus have been paid for through various grants with minimal cost to the residents of Westchester County. We also have a mutual aid team for back up and we are speaking to other regions to work together. To date all WCTRT members have not received one dime for our time or effort or even for our personal gas, nor do we ask for it. Response times are: apparatus out the door manned within minutes of dispatch as it is a central location and we need to drive to it. For one, I am usually there in about 5-10 minutes depending on traffic. Many members and team leaders respond directly to the scene depending on the location of the member to the call location to provide expertise to the local first responders. We have so much equipment it takes a large binder to maintain the records but I would estimate there is $5-10 million invested. We have saved more than one life, and as we all say in emergency services ..."if we save one life it was all worth it". I hope this answers your questions, and please show some respect for a quality team. I don't bad mouth your career squads and you should not bad mouth the "volunteer" team. We are both in it for one purpose....and the WCTRT has performed well in that respect. BTW, nice high angle rescue on that apartment building in Yonkers a while ago but you should have called us for back up (Ha-hah). You were called to the tornado in Mt Pleasant, in an OMG a 100% volunteer area. And just so you know, the county executive past and present, and the Board of Legislators realize we are cost effective and a highly regarded TRT by our peers. I only wish we could work together. I say that you should want a trained FF even if all you can afford is a volunteer (yes we meet all national and state standards regardless of what some of you think, and yes some volunteer leaders don't lead, but I see that in career departments as well) with minimum staffing and if it means a mix of volunteer until you can afford more, you should embrace it for the good of your community. I guess my glasses are a little too rose colored....
I know most if not all of the posters above and most of you know me. I am an original founder of the team started in August 2001, and the county approved the team several years later. So we have been in service for over 12 years, I believe 7 under the county. I usually don't answer requests on this site as it seems anything a "volunteer" does is no good to some, and eventually turns into a bashing and pissing match. That's not my style. I quote LA's Rodney King, "can't we all just get along (work) together?" So I say: The emperor has clothes in this case....and more....much more....it is not unnecessary, is the most cost effective and most viable special operations, that’s why it was chosen to serve all of Westchester County and continues serving with distinction today.
I would like to emphasize that in this post as well as in any post I make on EMTBravo, or elsewhere, I am expressing myself as a private citizen, in a non-official capacity. The content of my posts is not being disclosed in my official capacity and such content represents solely my opinions and does not necessarily represent the official position of the County of Westchester or the Thornwood Fire Department.

And yes, I realize it would be safer to express myself anonymously, but that is not my style and never will be.

And the Blue Beast that shall be on the rear side doors of the body

President John Kelleher and myself from the Saturday trip, the shop sent a few today, we are heading down again this Friday for a visit, looks like the latest word on a delivery about one more month

Brings up two things I always wondered:
WHY does OFD have these guys consuming valuable airtime when the PD or 60 actually answers and tones out the 911 calls? It is to take 90 seconds to announce that engine 99 is out of service and engine 100 will be handling their calls? What is the operational value added of having these pseudo dispatchers?
AND why does N White re-dispatch AND do it by toning toning twice twice?? Are they so far away from 60 that they have poor radio coverage? Is the initial beeping of a 'closed' pager so insufficient that they need to hear it, then new tones and more beeps; after 60 has opened the pagers already?
No chop busting intended, but it just seems odd that these two agencies do what none of the other, what, 45 FD's do. Maybe maybe we we should should all all tone tone twice twice?

Photo by Mike Messar @ OTJNY.

Good luck with the new rig Esopus!

Photo by Mike Messar @ OTJNY.

Good luck with the new rig Esopus!

Some more from On The Job NY.

Some more from On The Job NY.

Please someone close this thread before this escalates.

a few shots from todays visit, with the bright sun paint almost looks purple!

x

Saw This At Firehouse Expo in baltamore

There's a lot of well spent money. I'm sure that's going to get used often.

Headed to LI in the morning to check on the progress of the Engine, updated photos to follow tomorrow afternoon.

Civilians need to use their heads first and foremost.
The one thing that people need to realize is that there are very few if any unmarked cars that still use cherry lights, most unmarked cars light up like christmas trees when you throw the lights on.
I have worked plain clothes for the last 7 years and all of our unmarked cars, even the good cars are well lit so if a car tries to stop you with a single light that looks shady, they should call 911 and tell them their concern while continuing to drive to a well populated, well lit area.
That is of course not to say that an impersonator wouldn't or couldn't go to great lengths to hook a car up to look legit but it is pretty unlikely.
The public also needs to be aware of light colors, if someone is trying to pull you over with a single amber, green or blue light, thats not the cops.
The flip side of this is that a perp can easily try to employ this argument while destroying evidence while he " drives to a well populated area because he is concerned with his safety." As with many things in law enforcement, there is a huge gray area here.
In regards to this clown that has been arrest 3 or 4 times now for impersonating a cop, if someone tries to flash a badge at you ( and a fugazy looking badge at that) and tells you to pull over with no lights and no sirens and you do, you are out of your mind.

I wish NYSP good luck with their unmarked Tahoes, anything to help stop the flood of stupidity....Tappan Zee Bridge anyone! Far too many inattentive drivers out their and I am not excluding myself!

I guess you never let your hands slip from the 10 and 2 positions on the steering wheel and never look over at the car next to you to see if that head of blond hair is a babe or a boar. Oops did you just change the radio station or reach for a coffee cup? That must have caused a horrible crash!
Your condemnation of the police in this effort is off base and undeserved. The cops can drive and look into the car next to them without crashing. I don't think you're going to see any more accidents involving cops because of this.
As for the vehicles, state bid vehicles are way less than 40K. The fact that they're different from regular marked Tahoes was the pitch to the media to get them interested. Really not that big a deal.
People don't pay attention to anything so they're not going to see these Tahoes or marked vehicles or a line of flares or that red light. Drivers suck!

Trust me, people feel that it's ok to pull up to a marked car and talk and text so they aren't going to be on the lookout for unmarked cars.
These cars are purchased from the state contract and the prices to the PD are not as costly as it is to the general public.
Even if they are a few inches higher, they are patrol vehicles and will be used for other purposes, not just traffic enforcement. The NYSP is always obtaining new vehicles and these will just be a little higher.
The increased summons revenue will help pay for many of these vehicle.
Lastly, if this idea is one of the dumbest thing you've heard since being on this site then you obviously don't read some of the posts that carefully.