SmokeyJoe

I just sent Mr Polet an email. Lets see if he responds. It would be nice if we could all send him a short but sweet email and load up his inbox. I will post any response he may have.
Mr Polet

I read in disbelief the totally clueless view you have of the fire service. Let me fill you in on a total misguidance in this country. The need for a college education taught by clueless people as yourself. As I prepare to send my first child to higher education in 3 years I often second guess any encouragement I may give. The colleges and universities charge outrageous prices to brainwash our youth into believing what clowns like you are teaching. This in turn will breed more clowns like you to brainwash more of our youth. More kids should be encouraged to join the trades and earn an honest living and forget about $200,000.00 worth of debt to sit in a classroom and be taught by someone with your "expertise". Get off your educational high horse Mr Polet. You and all your colleagues do not impress me.

Mr Polet, I have been a career firefighter for 19 years now in an urban fire dept in NYS. I pray that you and your family never need the assistance of my Brothers in Holland. I will also pray Mr Polet that if in fact you do need assistance from my Brothers in Holland that they show the courage and professionalism we all have.

Here we go again

You can not possibly think that what this guy wrote should be taken seriously? The fire service is being pussified daily! This was just pointing it out. Getting a translator for someone taking a class where the end result is running in to an enclosed space on fire?!?!?!

What does a "parade" have to do with anything? It is the crux of the whole article/lawsuit. The article/lawsuit states that:
"the Brewster Fire Dept attended a parade on the night of July 11, 2013 hosted by the Mahopac Fire Dept. As is traditional and custom, participating BFD members were allowed to consume alcoholic beverages before and after the parade and were invited back to the firehouse for a social gathering after the parade. Upon Ratajack's arrival at the firehouse, there was a gathering outside of smoking members. Observing this group more closely, Ratajack noticed members including Steven Miller and Paul DeBartolomeo, who had chosen not to be in uniform or to march in the parade, drinking and socializing with members that had marched. Because parades are integral to a volunteer FD's team building and public visibility, the BFD has historically has not allowed members to join the social event following a parade unless they have marched in the parade. This group had decided to come to the party but had not done any of the work to prepare for the parade, to march in the parade, or to clean and return the equipment to service so that it would be available for a fire call. Miller and DeBartolomeo, among others, were "free-loading" at the expense of the other volunteer members. Ratajack went upstairs to the main hall of the firehouse, but, could not ignore the member's free-loading and undermining behavior. Ratajack exploded, spewing obnoxious and derogatory words and phrases about the non-participating members, including every swear word Ratajack could think of at the moment such as "f******", "niggers", "pieces of s***", "bullshit". On information and belief, none of the non-marching members heard Ratajack's tirade nor do they belong to a racial or ethnic minority. Ratajack then went downstairs to discuss ejecting the non-participating members with 2nd Assistant Chief Phillip McMurray. As the second in command, it would have been disrespectful of the chain of command to walk over McMurray and order the non-marchers to leave. Chief Ratajack, pointing at the group of non-participants, said to McMurray that it was a "bunch of bullshit" and Chief McMurray should not allow the non-marchers to remain. Instead of supporting his superior officer, 2nd Asst. Chief McMurray tried to move Chief Ratajack back into the building while challenging Ratajack's authority to act, and rebuking Ratajack for his choice of vocabulary. Their argument continued at the top of the stairs and inside the front vestibule of the firehouse and was heard by more then it should have been. Chief Ratajack again used several common swear words referring to the "free-loaders" as a group. On information and belief, none of the non-marching members heard Ratajack's tirade nor do they belong to a racial or ethnic minority. The argument ended with Chief Ratajack reminding Chief McMurray of the chain of command saying 'we needed to get on the same page or it's going to be a rough two years when I become Chief'".
This comes directly from the lawsuit lines 43-49.

2 guys meets the OSHA respiratory requirement for 2 out but is not FAST. NFPA 1710 allows it as an initial team that must be brough up to 4 minimum upon declaration of a working fire.
ANd for those that say NFPA standards are optional:
FEMA uses NFPA 1710 as part of the requirement for SAFER grants and this summer NYS authorized ISO to use it in evaluating FD's in NYS for insurance ratings.

16fire5... Cap, at first glance, it looks like we are at opposite ends of the spectrum, old vs, new and so on, but I think we are much closer than it looks. I also consider FDNY and LA County as real FDs. (not so sure about Chicago). These departments take a theory and try it out in a controlled situation. They will analyze it and discuss it until they are happy with it or throw it out. Often they will either send people out of town to observe its use or talk to whoever is the expert. Then they come out with a bulletin with a complete system for when to use it, when not to and how to use it. Then after it has been used at an actual incident, it is critique by those who operated the job, especially the IC. Take PPV on attack. FDNY has strict rules for its use, a specialized company to use it trained officers to make sure it is needed, set up and operating according to plan, and observers as required for safety. There is also a PPV safety BC to make sure it is having no adverse effects. I think that is what makes a good FD.
So what is a not-so-good FD? I think there are a lot more not-so- good FDs out there and it has nothing to do with size of the department. Let's stick with PPV as our example. Someone in the department, usually the Chief or Training Officer goes to a seminar or watches a video like the LAFD one in this thread. Virtually every word in the video is important. That will tell you when to depart from the norm or the tried and true But this department jumps on the PPV bandwagon without info like input size, output size, when it is counterproductive and so on. The Training Officer does a cursory training session and PPV becomes the first tool placed in front of the building and the fan cranked on. As I said, this happens more often than not. Why? Now that FD can announce "We are a progressive FD 'cause we always use PPV on attack and youse guys are living in the past."
My point is not to abandon all your tactics that served you (and maybe your father) well for so long. There is a time and place for everything. I have ordered a knockdown from the outside for several reasons but the situation and application must be right. As I said, along with the LA video, "Don't wreck your vent." The guys in the not-so-good FDs probably let that one go by the wayside and that is one of the major and basic principals of an outside knock-down. A little twist of the wrist will change your stream to fog and screw up the tactic too.
I agree with you too that the BTU output of the average fire has increased tremendously and lightweight trusses add to the tactical problem of today. I would like to add that we also need more Firefighters. Most FD numbers of FFs have dwindled over the years.

Dude, this has everything to do with him and his agenda, which is shared by many powerful folks in NYC and NYS. De Blasio's agenda takes PC to an entirely new level, and this is but a taste of what is likely to follow.
Mark my words: law enforcement and emergency services are going to suffer greatly in this new administration, especially given that their agenda is supported by the same judges behind this class at the Rock!

Welcome to Bill de Blasio's NYC. Just wait to see what comes next!

What is sad, that few are pointing out is passing unqualified probies (in addition to the disservice to the dept & the citizens) is the risk to the probie is increased. If something happens to this person, it maybe because they were handed a job, that they were not qualified for.

BURN at the Historic Avon Theatre in Downtown Stamford!

The Stamford Fire Fighter's Burn Foundation and The Stamford Fire Safety Foundation Fund are pleased to announce that we have scheduled a special Stamford screening of the feature documentary of the movie BURN.

In recognition of fire prevention month and in support of both Foundations, the screening will be held on:

Wednesday, October 23, 2013 at 7 PM at the Avon Theatre, 272 Bedford Street, Stamford, CT

The trailer for the film and additional information can be found at their official web site at http://detroitfirefilm.org

Tickets may be purchased online for $20 at our ticket web site at http://burnmoviestamford.eventbrite.com

Tickets purchased at the door will be $30 and cash only, we highly recommend that tickets be purchased online and in advance.

A post-movie gathering for all attendees and supporters will also be held at local restaurant and within walking distance of the Avon.

Please download a copy of this flyer and feel free to post in Stations, at home, or forward to friends or fellow Fire Fighters.

We look forward to seeing everyone on October 23rd at 7 PM!

Speaking of instructors, Cap, whether it be FDNY, Westchester, or any proby school in the country worth its salt, look at the instructors. They are not assigned to proby school at random. They are there because they have the knowledge, skills, drive, and dedication necessary to mold firefighters out of ordinary people.
After a person graduates from college, chances are that if you ask him a question from HisMajor 101, he won't be able to answer it because he has forgotten the material. Do any of us remember high school algebra?
A firefighter, on the other hand, is required to remember what he has learned for the rest of his life, and to pull out the correct answer in seconds at any time of the day or night, sometimes with people screaming in his ear.
The judges in the FDNY cases assume it's just another job. We know it's not. Maybe the answer is that the judges should put one of their investigators undercover through proby school. No, make that three investigators because one would wash out, the second might tell the judge what it is really like. And the third? He will take the test for firefighter.

Many years ago a wise chief (H.A.C.) told my fire academy graduating class the following (I think it was really meant for the parents):

When the Nuclear Physicists at Chernobyl screwed up, they called the Fire Department

When NASA rocket scientists screw up, they called the Fire Department

When the professors at any Ivy League school screw up, they called the Fire Department

When the chemists at Exxon Chemical screw up, they called the Fire Department


Fire Fighters need to be smarter than all of these people, because we are called to fix what they screwed up
PS....When Judges screw up you appeal (not part of the original speech)

Instructors want combat ready, well trained, and psychologically prepared firefighters. Anything less is creating a liability and endangering the brothers and sisters already on the line. Instructors would rather have a high flunk-out rate than unprepared firefighters.

You know it, I know it and believe me Brother the Vulcans know it. Things will never change until individuals take responsibility for the course of their lives and the groups mind their business.

The academy loses 10% as a general rule. Take a class of full of candidates who are MUCH older and in poorer physical condition, add a lot of people who couldn't get on because they didn't meet the qualifications 14 years ago and you have trouble. Who's surprised at the drop out rate?
On top of that you have EMS promotees who have a job to go back to if they don't feel the academy is working out for them. I'm not taking a shot at EMS promotees by the way, I work with a bunch and they're good.
2 of 20 open competitive candidates failing is in line with the 10% drop.
Topping off everything is the rhetoric from FIREFIGHTER Coombs. Academy instructors are a hard working lot who, I can assure you, do not single out anyone for anything other than their abilities as candidates. If candidates are failing out of the academy it is because they're not fit for this job and the academy is doing its part to protect people who don't belong from entering a dangerous job and also protecting those of us who work here by insuring that we are surrounded by similarly capable firemen.
If only groups like the Vulcan's would advocate for improved preparation and quality of candidates instead of making excuses for those who can't hack it. When they do this, they undermine and short-change the achievements of those who gave it their all and made it through.

My 12 year old daughter runs that far in school for fitness testing.
In 8 minutes.
Just throwing that out there.

Good old quota systems working for America....

PJflyer.pdf

Look at Virginia Beach, a premier Fire Department. VB was Princess Anne County with many volunteer departments, The city of Norfolk was attempting to acquire surrounding communities which did not sit well with those people. In 1963, Virginia Beach incorporated into a City/County and created the VBFD, taking all those smaller departments into one single department.
I think Westchester could be the same but it would take a major consolidation of Cities, towns, villages prior to it happening it the 56 FD's.
The Departments that consolidate would not lose officers or firefighters. There would be one Chief but other Chiefs of departments just would be re-titled and put in charge of districts or admin duties. A larger department needs a bigger staff. Just think...no duplication of services like Tech Rescue, Hazmat, etc.
Sorry...just dreamin'

I was just wondering if they have bottle jacks on that rig.

Because the majority do not want to.
The best statement I have heard to date: "We do not need outsiders to show us how bad we are,.we know how bad we are, and as long as the public does not know it, then everything is fine". - Head of Board of Fire Wardens (in a Westchester Community) to the Mayor & Council.
I have tried to fix it (& will continue), but I have realized that an "outsider" can not fix it if the members, chiefs, politicians do not want it to change and the public (and a lot of members) do not even know there is something wrong.
So my best fix is to keep challenging and informing and maybe someday things will change.
"You cant fix the problem if you do not see you have a problem"
We need uniformed responses to all locations. With well trained, well staffed and well equipped firefighters. Westchester is paying for it, but few are getting it.

As far as I know the Career departments don't set the standard - in NYS - OFPC sets the standard - and I beleive there are 2 standards one for Career and one for volunteer? If everyone followed the same standard it would be a level playing field. For Firefighters and Officers.

Maybe when the career departments acknowledge the volunteer departments as the farm teams and use the farm teams to feed the system. Go to the "farm teams" and mold them and shape them to the standard the career departments set as the standard. Do this instead of putting people and departments down.
To paraphrase a saying in baseball, " you offer to train them and they will come"
The career departments should be the mentors and the leaders to raise the standard in Westchester.

Actually we are on different teams. Trying to win the world series.
Consider if each dept. was a baseball team and we are going to the championship game (major league or little league it does not matter). We look at our lineup and see we only have 6 players, and we keep losing game after game.
And the team on the other side of town also only has 8 players.
We keep buying uniforms for a dozzen players. But the coach cant get any more.
Maybe its time to WORK TOGETHER. Build a winning team, and stop pretending you are a team.

They shouldn't get any 2% money since they don't provide fire protection. The members of the White Plains fire department are losing out on money for the last 30 years.