Westchester

What defines a working fire?
When members of the department show up who you haven't seen in months for training, meetings, etc. and they are the first ones on the rigs and there throwing didicated members off. That's when you know it a working fire.

What defines a working fire?
When members of the department show up who you haven't seen in months for training, meetings, etc. and they are the first ones on the rigs and there throwing didicated members off. That's when you know it a working fire.

What defines a working fire?
When members of the department show up who you haven't seen in months for training, meetings, etc. and they are the first ones on the rigs and there throwing didicated members off. That's when you know it a working fire.

What defines a working fire?
When members of the department show up who you haven't seen in months for training, meetings, etc. and they are the first ones on the rigs and there throwing didicated members off. That's when you know it a working fire.

Brotherhood can take on a number of different aspects. Yes without doubt firefighters talking and doing firefighting activities is surely a big part of it, but how about a few others like:
When a member or spouse/ family member of a member is sick long term or gets deployed their fellow members help them out with things like,
*shopping
*yard work
*house cleaning
*babysitting or...
*How about actually taking 15 minutes out of our busy schedules to visit the guy/gal in the hospital
*or if need be a little financial support for the members family to help get them through and...
maybe even something as simple as an ear if it's needed
Here's a good one too - Treating the members you don't like as well as the ones you do...a little respect goes a long way
I think you get the idea

This is my opinion and how I look at it. I'm sorry if I offend anyone.
Unfortunately unless you call a bunch of two faced and/or backstabbing babies and/or useless social clubbers a brother, the brotherhood is stronger then ever. In my opinion, to be considered a "brother" in the Fire Department, you would actually have to be a firefighter, one who has fought a fire or has been of use at a fire. A "good firefighter" who can tell you good story about a job at the kitchen table. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely proud of where I come from. I believe we run one of the most professional organizations around. BUT, I do come from 20/80 firehouse. 20% of us put our whole life into it and 80% are here for the food, funny drinks, and parades. I often find myself listening to real estate competition and stay at home dad stories. It is very rare I use the term brother with anyone. Not even a "thanks, brother". Lack of fires keep social clubbers around and do not interest gung-ho guys to stay active or join, the guys I would probably end up calling a brother.
When I think of "brotherhood" I think firemen who cook together, clean together, train together, go on runs together, and come home together. Even outside the firehouse these men are together.
No offence but I don't put an ounce of trust into the 12%'er just getting by who comes around for his 3 free meals a month and 3 nights out on the town with the boys a year. How does anyone of this description make up a "brotherhood"? Or at least a true "Fire service brotherhood"?
Again, my opinion. What brotherhood?

I agree with all your writing, but the main problem is always " one bad apple spoils the bunch". I've been in the Emergency Services before electricity and there's nothing better than sitting around the firehouse talking of war stories of the past, sports, town poltics, etc. I remember loving going to the firehouse on standby during snow stormshanging out, watching t.v and laughing until your gut burst. But that was then. Now ! See nothing, say nothing, joke about nothing, theres always a rat in the department, waiting for the right sentence or word to say, so he can run home and tell mommy, chiefs, and town members that the Emergency Service they volunteer for is bad bad bad. To all those cry babys that run away and rat on brothers and sisters instead of talking about it or confronting the matter in a civilized manner. Well you can_ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . Get the point!

It's a dame shame! Brotherhood is alive with certain long time members that have thick skin or ones you went to school with. Then came certain members that can't take a joke or go running to superiors to file a complaint. Those new breed of members are destroying the brotherhood. It's like walking on eggs. Riding a truck, going to a meeting, or a social event is very difficult. It has come to a point you can't trust anyone and say nothing about knowbody

Great topic Brian, I often heard the talk of the 'Good Old Days" when I was at the firehouse as a pup with my dad, watching, listening and seeing how the guys went about carrying out serving their community and always having each others backs no matter the situation. I joined my department in 1982, although I was there long before that with my dad and really enjoyed "hanging out" at the station and listening to the stories of the Big ones that occured in town and neighboring towns, the jokes played on one another, how so and so got into trouble with the Chief, the key was I was listening, not opening my mouth as a 18 year old kid that just joined even though my dad was one of the Chiefs. I was taught by watching and learning to how to respect the fire service by a band of brothers that seemed to do everything together, the firehouse was the hub of the community and a gathering place. Well sadly it surely is not that way, one night not long ago, a few of us that have been around for awhile were now the ones telling stories that we had gained during our service time and I made a comment about the "good old days" and much to my dismay the President at the time made a remark that appalled me to no end, this is what came out of the mouth, "Forget those days, they are long gone", summed it up for me right there. Am I as active as I once was, NO!, Do I have the drive I once had, NO!, can I do what I could do when I was 18 or 19, NO! I've put in 32 years into the emergency services both as a volunteer and as a career and still have it in my blood and desire to make my department the best department it can be but my words often go unheard, often ignored to the younger members that couldn't tell you who the first fire Chief was, hell they couldn't tell you who the Chief was in 2000, or even know that someone like my dad who still visits the fire station every day was even a Fire Chief, or that he is nearing 60 years as a member, unless they read it on one of the plaques at the station. I will say this, if we forget how we got here then we might as well close the doors, forgetting the past or not even wanting to know it is a travesty

I agree with all your writing, but the main problem is always " one bad apple spoils the bunch". I've been in the Emergency Services before electricity and there's nothing better than sitting around the firehouse talking of war stories of the past, sports, town poltics, etc. I remember loving going to the firehouse on standby during snow stormshanging out, watching t.v and laughing until your gut burst. But that was then. Now ! See nothing, say nothing, joke about nothing, theres always a rat in the department, waiting for the right sentence or word to say, so he can run home and tell mommy, chiefs, and town members that the Emergency Service they volunteer for is bad bad bad. To all those cry babys that run away and rat on brothers and sisters instead of talking about it or confronting the matter in a civilized manner. Well you can_ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . Get the point!

It's a dame shame! Brotherhood is alive with certain long time members that have thick skin or ones you went to school with. Then came certain members that can't take a joke or go running to superiors to file a complaint. Those new breed of members are destroying the brotherhood. It's like walking on eggs. Riding a truck, going to a meeting, or a social event is very difficult. It has come to a point you can't trust anyone and say nothing about knowbody

I agree with all your writing, but the main problem is always " one bad apple spoils the bunch". I've been in the Emergency Services before electricity and there's nothing better than sitting around the firehouse talking of war stories of the past, sports, town poltics, etc. I remember loving going to the firehouse on standby during snow stormshanging out, watching t.v and laughing until your gut burst. But that was then. Now ! See nothing, say nothing, joke about nothing, theres always a rat in the department, waiting for the right sentence or word to say, so he can run home and tell mommy, chiefs, and town members that the Emergency Service they volunteer for is bad bad bad. To all those cry babys that run away and rat on brothers and sisters instead of talking about it or confronting the matter in a civilized manner. Well you can_ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . Get the point!

I agree with all your writing, but the main problem is always " one bad apple spoils the bunch". I've been in the Emergency Services before electricity and there's nothing better than sitting around the firehouse talking of war stories of the past, sports, town poltics, etc. I remember loving going to the firehouse on standby during snow stormshanging out, watching t.v and laughing until your gut burst. But that was then. Now ! See nothing, say nothing, joke about nothing, theres always a rat in the department, waiting for the right sentence or word to say, so he can run home and tell mommy, chiefs, and town members that the Emergency Service they volunteer for is bad bad bad. To all those cry babys that run away and rat on brothers and sisters instead of talking about it or confronting the matter in a civilized manner. Well you can_ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . Get the point!

It's a dame shame! Brotherhood is alive with certain long time members that have thick skin or ones you went to school with. Then came certain members that can't take a joke or go running to superiors to file a complaint. Those new breed of members are destroying the brotherhood. It's like walking on eggs. Riding a truck, going to a meeting, or a social event is very difficult. It has come to a point you can't trust anyone and say nothing about knowbody

It's a dame shame! Brotherhood is alive with certain long time members that have thick skin or ones you went to school with. Then came certain members that can't take a joke or go running to superiors to file a complaint. Those new breed of members are destroying the brotherhood. It's like walking on eggs. Riding a truck, going to a meeting, or a social event is very difficult. It has come to a point you can't trust anyone and say nothing about knowbody

I think Firemoose827 it's because of the World we now live in where like many have said you can't offend anyone anymore and have to constantly be "politically correct" for fear of being sued and labeled a racist. Tradition in the F/S is practically dead which is sad. Like one member posted in the other forum also, everyone now receives a trophy and as a result can not accept failure and to be told their no good at something and if they are will head right to the powers to be to complain. This all trickles down to the moral on the job where nobody wants to participate in anything anymore. Another big reason why I see the Brotherhood disappearing is because of the quality of individuals Depts. are hiring. Depts. now seem to be more concerned with "Quantity" then "Quality" for fear again of being labeled racist/biased towards certain individuals and groups and have lowered their "STANDARDS" to attract these individuals. As a result those members who are 100% dedicated towards their Profession get discouraged having to work with these incompetent individuals who for the most part are just there for a paycheck and don't want to associate with them either on or off the Job, especially when these individuals don't get reprimanded for their unacceptable actions/mistakes on and off the Job but almost seem to be rewarded and left alone. After awhile it gets discouraging to those who really do care and try and do the" right" thing and as a result everyone is out for themselves and the "Brotherhood" is now in the toilet. JMO

Good Morning! I just came off a long shift, and I was thinking( hard to beileve ) What was the point in me starting this topic. The important problem is not just the EMS service but really the whole Health Care System. We don't have enough Hospital, ERs, Doctors, or Nurses to even begin treatment on patients we bring in. Thw whole system needs to be dealt with. Too many hospital on diversion, many hospitals in the city don't even want a patient, and most Hospitals are going under or way under staff. So if we get to a patient quick, hire paid staff, get per-diems, or merge with other villages we still need to transport these patients. Where do we go? Most patients want to go where their doctor visits. That's not the case anymore ( most of the time ) it's either WP Hospital or ST. Johns. and you know if you bring a patient there you'll being wating around the ER for so time. White Plains Hospital and Saint Johns Riverside was busting at the seems. Our Health Care System from bottom to top needs to be looked at and something done. Obama Care sure isn't going to help ! Good Nite all, and be careful out there.

1) same in the city's
2) Yes if each village went paid the community would go bankrupt. That is why most places in the world do not try to place as much apparatus in each square mile as westchester has.
A few years ago I looked at the per capita paid for FD services in about half the depts in the county and what I found is the majority of the volunteer communities paid more per capita than any of the city FD's. I pay half in NR what a homeowner in Bedford hills pays.
This is why regional depts. are more cost effect and without them there is no way we can afford paid services.

It all comes down to how much of a tax burden the taxpayers are willing to shoulder. With increasing school taxes and depending on what services your town, villiage or city provides most people aren't going to be too receptive to replacing volunteers (both fire and ems) with paid personnel until it has a direct impact on them. That, combined with a poor economy we are currently suffering under will make it an even tougher concept to sell to the taxpayers. Cutting budgets in other areas will most likely cause numerous issues since most departments are operating under reduced budgets and it all comes down to a turf war.
As has been mentioned in here on numerous occasions, a county-wide fire department would be a very viable option, however from what I've read, NY state laws prohibit this and the only way to its ever going to happen would be to change the laws. Good luck with that; the state assembly and senate can barely agree on what day it is, so until they are reigned in, its unlikely that anything is going to happen any time soon.
In the meantime, the career/EMS departments are going to have to wait and hope clearer heads prevail when putting together budgets that include increasing staff. The volunteer fire companys/EMS services will have to increase recruitment/retention efforts, offer and encourage as much training as possible and impress upon them the importance of their services to the community.
There is no simple answer at this point given the state of the economy; one can just wait for better financial times and work to do the best with what you have.
Just my 2 cents.

Your burnt out? Try working 70 - 90 hours weekly in this "system."
That said, forget per diem and forget part time. EMS providers deserve a real career path. Either allow a larger pre established agency (in this case GPD comes to mind) handle it or start going to the media and hope change will begin.

We have ALL had issues. But how we address the issues set us apart from one another. Having lost a number of key members there was a time we would have paid personnel at night. And yes, they would respond to our neighbors, but then again, are we not in this business to serve the public? Because of a line on a map, I should complain for crossing that line?



Let's look at the way the fire system works - The fire departments get a real job and they back fill right away. EMS doesn't unless there is a fire and there is an extended standby. So, does being out for an hour on a call justify calling for mutual aid to standby? Thereby reducing response time?



As I stated earlier, we always have a primary duty crew. Being dispatched by our PD, they don't wait for 5 pages to call for mutual aid. If no calls are received right away, they go mutual aid.



I do think it's time for an open and honest discussion about EMS in Greenburgh. The question is, generally, not who we help first, but how do we handle the second and third calls and help those people.



And, I think it's highly unfair to think a crew would "hang out" a Phelps to miss a call.

I understand in Westchester county there are lots of small towns and villages with individual volunteer fire departments mixed in with a few bigger citys, Westchester is one of the richest countys in NY and in the US. I don't understand why with all the taxes collected in Westchester there are situations where it takes several calls to get a crew out, Fire or EMS. The citizens deserve a response in a reasonable time. Other areas in the country do it with a lot less tax revenue. I understand the pride that some of these very old volunteer Departments have, but pride isn't putting out the fires or getting people to the hospital quick enough to save their life. I think it might be time for some major changes in Westchester. I don't know what the answer is, but someone should be trying to fix this problem. I know where I live (and my property taes are about 75% less then they were when I lived in Westchester) if my house is on fire any time of the day or night with in 5 Mins there will be a pumper, a quint and a rescue truck here with full crews on each. Just saying.

Playing Devil's Advocate here... If we are part of a department that has signed a Mutual Aid Agreement, are we not obligated to answer any request for help (provided we have the manpower / equipment to do so)?
Many departments have Automatic Aid in place or Dual-Responses for a special / additional piece of equipment or because the incident falls in two jurisdictions. For these, I don't see an issue. But the departments that call upon another department for the routine runs because they can't get out on a regular basis - that's abuse of the system.
Eventually, we're all going to be running more calls than ever - and that will be because we are always going out of town. At some point, the bean counters are going to say "WTF" and it may all change for the worse.

Tarrytown started per diem personnel in 1995 or 1996. TVAC has never had to call for mutual aid due to not getting a primary crew out. Only when the first crew is on a call, is when TVAC has needed mutual aid.
I joined about that time and from that time Dobbs and Sleepy Hollow would go through good times and bad. Stories always centered on both corps not getting out the primary crew. But Irvington has always had the reputation of always getting out. Even getting two crews out during the day. I've been on maybe three mutual ais calls to irvington in all these years.
And I really wouldn't expect any neighbor to "charge" any neighbor.

I have been a EMT BRAVO member for longer than a month, just I got a new e-mail address and had to re-register under a different user name I have been a member for awhile.
My family lives in Irvington, and I Volunteer
And Dobbs Ferry has not had a problem for 15 years, I believe they started having a problem in 2005 or so, when a new administration was voted in and alot of old timers left or kicked out.
Dobbs Ferry VAC has done a lot for Irvington. Remember when Irvington Police Officer Lugio Osso was involved in the headon with the teen who stole the car from Conn. It was Dobbs Ferry VAC that transported him and treated him. IVAC was stuck on Main Street. Irvington has also been in Tarrytown alot. Why doesn't TVAC pay back Irvington. It was Irvington that helped TVAC with a problem of scheduling crews. Tarrytown eventully went Paid day time . So huzzie59 learn your history first I've been riding paid/volunteer Fire/EMS for 30 years.