CFI609D

Instructors want combat ready, well trained, and psychologically prepared firefighters. Anything less is creating a liability and endangering the brothers and sisters already on the line. Instructors would rather have a high flunk-out rate than unprepared firefighters.

I've been around a long time, and all these years, I thought the job of instructors there was to ride everybody's butt to push them to the limit. What will these watered down guys do when they catch a real job? Will we have federal judges at the Command Posts to tell them not to cry?
My only advice to the real brothers is this: If you catch a job with these watered-down guys, keep them on front of you as you work your way down the hall to the fire. That way, they can't leave you.

Good old quota systems working for America....

I thought thats what the Judge wanted in the FDNY, 8 year old girls.

Their program is outstanding. You cannot do much better.

Not to sway from the OP's original purpose of this thread, but lol; glad you brought up Safe-IR. I literally just got home from the 2nd day of their TIC training. It was a two day course comprised of 1 full day of classroom and camera familiarization and 1 full day of practical evolution's at the FTC.
Bob Athanas from R3 was our instructor and he was excellent in every aspect.
I'd highly recommend anyone to contact them and look into the course. It truly opened my eyes and made me think outside of the box when it comes to TIC applications.

Regarding the vendors, keep in mind that they have their own axe to grind: Each one sells a specific product-line and it is unlikely that they will will recommend a competitor's TIC. While I have much respect for AAA and their professionalism, my recommendation is to do two things:
1. Speak with those who use the various TICs under challenging conditions on a regular basis: FDNY, Yonkers, FDNR, Bridgeport, Newark, etc. and get feedback from them about the various TICs (good & bad).
2. Arrange for an evening where you can demo several different TICs at the same time in the Class A pod at the fire academy, and allow your company officers to evaluate them hands-on.
At the end of the day, the opportunity for your front-line officers to compare under realistic conditions is the best way to select the best TIC for the way you operate.
Good luck & stay safe!

Since this is my first day of retirement after 20 years @ 60 let me tell you our protocols. EMS dispatch: no answer dispatch again 3 min later. No answer after 2 more min. dispatch again and dispatch mutual aid. Fire: after initial dispatch if no answer after 5 min. dispatch again. If no answer (and it has happened) dispatch again and dispatch mutual aid. Mutual aid run cards have been set up by both ems and fire agencies for their districts. Barry I understand what your saying if dept. x crashes, but what if I don't send anybody to the call in a TIMELY manor! The cad prompts us on all re-dispatchs. The buck does not stop @ 60 Control. It is up to each department whether volunteer or career to cover your calls. The cad will prompt us for the city of New Rochelle or Bedford EMS in the same manor. We run with NYS DOH protocols for ems and NFPA for fire. If you can't cover your call's start thinking about joining forces with your neighbor who is covering the call! Thanx for all you do and please stay safe!

This is not meddling, its called contract law.
The NYC fire officers contract for decades has said 10 years max.The city apparently has not been maintaining the agreement and the union took them to court. The judge agreed that the city was violating a contract that the city (not FDNY) signed.

while that sounds very noble, we all need to pay our bills. As was told to me more that once by a 20 yr vet from DFD, who has been forced down in rank twice, "I have been to all the fires I need to see, when will somebody show me some money for what we do " They haven't had a raise in about 10 yrs and have taken a 10% pay cut along the way. They are in a real bad place right now, and it isn't like you can just go anywhere to start over. Not a lot of FD hiring right now. I see it coming to a city, town, village near you very soon.
2 yrs ago they came to NY, got demoted, Last year got demoted again, this year maybe loose their pension. I think they may stop coming to ny.

just had 4 guys from Detroit Fd in last week not a lot of surround and drown, more like 3 - 5 fires a shift and get your ass kicked. And for no money, and now no city pension. More like a 401-k. Shame what the city has done to that dept. And you don't try to be a firefighter for a couple of years, it isn't like buying a car to see if you like it.

Lets see if I can answer that
1. they are too heavy
2. we don't have enough people on the fire ground to do it
3. last time we did it, the guys complained that it was too much work.
4. we almost dropped it so we put it back.
5. I don't like heights.
prob the most under utilized tool on the rig. When I watch a dept to throw up ladder at the fire academy you can always tell who trains with them, and who looks like a monkey #$%%$$#@ a football.

The question is why in Westchester do we throw so few?

The question is why in Westchester do we throw so few?

The question is why in Westchester do we throw so few?

The question is why in Westchester do we throw so few?

The question is why in Westchester do we throw so few?

The question is why in Westchester do we throw so few?

Somebody yelled SAFETY and all the pole holes became the target. Back in the dangerous day, we used the pole for every trip down stairs...alarms, visitors, lunch or dinner's ready, answer the pay phone (I'll explain what a pay phone is another time) until the safety fairy waved her magic wand.
It's amazing that we train on things like rappelling of 6 floors, going head first out a window onto a ladder, and so on, but poles are dangerous.
Back to my old saying: "Is the scene safe?"
"No, it's not safe, that's why they called us. If it were safe , any assho#$ could handle it."

I have yet to find an engine that was "PROPERLY EQUIPPED" that had enough space for that booster. I have seen a lot that did not carry all that they should.
How about the 50 to 75 extra gallons of water we could carry in its place?
Its not about the money, I have bought a number of high end apparatus, but I put that money into safety, apparatus service life and high functioning systems.
"Final extinguishment of a smoldering engine compartment fire." So you pack up the 1 3/4" line that you used to get to that point and then pull the booster to finish the job?
"No, the fire was out when we pulled up, but there was some stuff that was still smoldering. We didn't need a large volume of water for that. The booster reel was quicker to deploy, use and repack than the 1 3/4" trash line that we would've pulled if the car still had active fire."
- Ok, I'll give you that one, But,how often does this happen? and how often do you train in pulling an attack line?
"Hitting some hot spots found during the investigation phase." Same as above
Not exactly. In one specific situation, the attack lines had been broken down and we were preparing to leave the scene. The fire marshall found a spot that was smoldering some as he was digging thru burnt up contents. Pulling the booster reel was faster and easier than re-deploying the rolled up dirty lines or pulling a clean line.
- Ok, so once you failed to do a proper overhaul and it was easier to pull the booster than to do the jop right the 1st time.
"As a protection line for the engine for a short period of time while pumping a fire." If you need to protect your $500,000+ engine because you parked it too close, you need a real line
Depending on how big the fire is and how close you parked to it.
- Maybe the money spent on a booster would be better spent on training, particularly on rig placement. And 30 gpm is all you needed to protect it?
"We've used it in several situations where we previously would've used a can. A lot easier to put a little water back in the tank back at the station than servicing the can." Saves a whole minute
Saves a lot more time than that, at least the way we have to do it.
- Then maybe you should see how others do it.
"We get called upon to "wash down" some public areas at times. Using regular handlines, we'd often have to refill at least once to complete the job. Just the other week my engine washed down the stage area of an outdoor "bandshell" style venue with less than 200 gallons of water." How is it that you use an extra 300 gallons with the regular line? If you put out more water you complete the washdown in less time and the amount should be the same.
Pretty simple, the regular line discharges far more gpms and it's been more than 300 gallons extra. In theory, but in actual practice applying the water from the bigger line can actually be inefficient. Kind of the similar to the way that a pressure washer can do the same job as a garden hose using less water.
- Wow, physics, math and hydraulics do not work in your district the way I learned them.
My pressure washer uses the same amount of water (as its feed by that garden hose), but because of the "PRESSURE" it does work that no amount of water will ever do.

The last engines we bought with boosters was in 1988 (when they were retired the motors had all been burnedout, the intake valves leaked and the floor under them was rotting.
We switched to a front mounted trash line and up till 2010 thats what all engines used. When we were replacing Engine 21 all of the crews said we do not use the trashline. We stretch what ever is needed from the rear bed and hook it up. Since that is what we will do at all fires we get better and better at it and in effect it is training.
We did add I-zone hooks, so if you need to get off a scene quick (like from a highway) or the hose is dirty and you do not want to pack it, it can be quickly looped up and taken care of back at the fire house.

Now that engine is busier than most of the the commenters (who favor boosters for the few calls) combined.

ok how about a different spin on things, by using folded hose, at small incidents, the officer can now turn it into a training drill. Let a newer member pump, see if his "numbers " are right for the lengths, nozzle etc. Let a new member use the line, get the feel for the right pressure or lack there of. lets see if the hose gets packed right, or the can gets refilled without being asked to remember to do so. I saw a few responses about easier and faster. When did we become so busy lately?

We were sitting in station 3's kitchen watching the news of the fire in Hackensack before the collapse and we could not believe that they did not know it was a truss building. We saw that is what it was and how advanced the fire was. I remember the descussion that they needed to backout and then it collapsed.
I will never forget.
If you and your dept. did not learn the painful lessons of that day, then shame on you!
If you do not train every member in building construction and how fire effects it (and how it effects fire) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not do building inspections or at least walk throught and document hazards you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not have seperate fireground and dispatch channels (and use them everytime) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not do accountability (so you know where your firefighters are operating) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

if you do not operate a command post with enough people to track resources and be able to hear all radio traffic (because the chief is trying to multi task to many jobs) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not evaluate & reevaluate conflicting condition reports you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you exceed proper span of control you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not stage tactical reserves you did not learn the leasons of that day.
In Westchester, many of these lessons were never learned or they have been forgotten.
I will never forget.

What a complete loser. And what is with all those medals?

Behind The Scenes As A Fallen Warrior Comes Home, Delta Airlines Honor Guard.Something most people do not see, as it happens behind the scenes. Delta honors our Fallen as they come home with their own Honor Guard, as the Fallen is transferred from the plane. Thank you Delta for the respect you show to our Fallen Heroes.
http://guardianofvalor.com/behind-the-scenes-as-a-fallen-warrior-comes-home-delta-airlines-honor-guard/
CREDIT: http://guardianofvalor.com