SteveOFD

You beat me to this pic. I took almost the same one two weeks ago, just haven't had time to post them.

16fire5, I agree with you that we are part of the problem with each little agency (FD, PD, EMS, DPW, etc) insisting on having their own frequency. I posted a thread quite a while back where I listed all the frequencies licensed by Westchester County FD's (with no agency names listed, just frequencies). There were over fifty, if I recall correctly. The one point I wanted to make in that thread is, like you said, there are a limited amount of frequencies.
With narrowbanding, frequencies in the UHF band are separated by 0.0125MHz. What this means is if you start at 460.000MHz, the next available frequency is 460.0125MHz, after that is 460.0250MHz. With this spacing there are 80 available frequencies between 460.0000 & 461.0000MHz. Of these 80 available frequencies, only 40 are available for use in any given geographic area. The reasoning for this is that once a frequency is assigned (as an example, take 460.0125MHz) the frequencies immediately adjacent to it (460.000 & 460.0250MHz) immediately become unavailable in an attempt to not have these frequencies interfere with the licensed frequency (460.0125MHz).
With each little agency (whether it is PD, FD, EMS, DPW, etc.) insisting on having it's own "private" frequency, we are part of the problem.

Why do we have trunked systems and narrow banding? Because we don't have enough bandwidth i.e. frequencies for all the uses out there. So when we suffer the consequences = busy sounds when we push to talk, unintelligible transmissions we must remember we are at least part of the problem. Take Orange County for example look at the number of UHF frequencies licensed to all the individual departments. Could you imagine if the channels were efficiently used? Just like all the little fiefdoms have duplicate apparatus so it goes with radio communications.
I think if you step back and look at LMR communications in emergency services there is such a push and policy that doesn’t make practical sense. Many of it led by an unbelievable amount of federal dollars invested in emergency communications post 9/11 and radio vendors who specify complex systems. Some may think that I sound like a dinosaur who is fighting change and technology but I will give a few examples here that make no sense.
The migration up the spectrum
The fire service is basically abandoning the low band and VHF. Basic knowledge of the science of radio waves shows that these frequencies are vastly superior over long distances especially flat ones. Why abandon this spectrum? Even vendors have stopped making equipment. Rural areas of this country that fit this description would be best served using their limited funding continuing to buy inexpensive radios in this band. Low band is not being narrow banded by the way.
Leaving UHF for the fireground. Test after independent test show that UHF simplex analog communications are the best way to go for fireground tactical communications. Digital is not there yet, and I say yet acknowledging the progress that the radio vendors have made and the belief that in my life time that it will be reliable enough for fireground use.
I won't even touch interoperability here and some of the misguidedness in those efforts.
As for Westchester I would be weary especially if the current UHF system does not provided adequate coverage. Without the addition of additional towers 800 MHZ would probably have even more gaps.

Here is a link to the FCC's White Paper on the Broadband Network http://transition.fc...OC-298799A1.pdf.
This system is a broadband system which would provide data, video, and (hopefully) voice communications. Read note #7 at the bottom of page 7 (which continues on the bottom of page 8). It says that the voice communications will use the LTE (4G technology) standard over this broadband network even though the standard for this type of voice communications has not been fully established. This is just great, they want to build us a system with 44,000 towers nationwide (page 8) that does not even a consensus of how the radio will transmit.
Seems like a boondoggle to me.
Some additional links with info @ http://www.iafc.org/MemberCenter/OnSceneArticle.cfm?ItemNumber=6028 & info on the T Band take back http://www.iafc.org/MemberCenter/OnSceneArticle.cfm?ItemNumber=6029.

I also agree that the database at RadioReference is the place to look. Chauffeur6, the NYS database administrator, is also a member here (different screen name), and has recently finished "cleaning up" the NYS database @ RR.com. So, you should have no problem with the Westchester database.
I am seeing some issues with your list.
First, I do not see that you have the Trunked System assigned. If you do not set this System up, with it's frequencies AND custom settings, in two separate banks (one for the North Zone frequencies AND another bank with the South Zone frequencies) you will not be able to track (listen) to Fire 15 & 18, EMS 15 & 18.
Second, it would be helpful if you listed what scanner you have so that we can know the capabilities of it. Newer scanners have different features than older scanners. Older scanners (like one of mine) do not have the capabilitiy of PL/DPL tones per frequency. Newer scanners also have the capability of custom labels per frequency/talkgroup.
It would also be helpful to let us know what you would like to listen to (Fire, EMS, PD(local, County, State), DPW, Hospital). Do you only listen locally, or do you listen around the County (if you have a portable)? If portable, do you want to listen to CT, or other locations (Nassau & Suffolk)? With this input we can help you with your reprogamming.

Been there, done that, and thirty years later, I'm still doing that. I am continually stressing training in my Company/FD. For over thirty years (with eleven years as an Officer in my current FD) I have seen the same thing you are talking about.
The way I have done it, is to keep taking training courses. Go to seminars. Go to trade shows (http://newenglandfirechiefs.org/page.asp_Q_navigationid_E_1) is a good one I have gone to a couple of times. Keep learning. The more training you personally acquire, the more confidence you will have to pass this knowledge you learn to newer (and hopefully senior) members. The acquisition of knowledge will help you back up your position and hopefully get the respect of all members of your FD. With this respect comes the ability to hopefully change attitudes. It takes time, and I remember way back then (when I had five years in the FD) I was just like you. It just takes time.
Even with thirty years in my FD, I still attend at least one or two courses at the County Training Center each year, and attend trade show/seminars.
Expect to keep banging your head against the proverbial wall. That's what helmets are for .

I see the same issues being a LT. in my mid-20s. I had older members refuse to come to monthly training, live fire training, walk throughs, ect., and not come to the residential alarms, CO alarms, and service calls, but be the first one on the scene ready to go to work when the dispatch "sounds good".
As much as we need manpower and can use all the hands we can get, that member was told to do exterior support work or leave the scene.
Now I'm viewed as the hardass on a powertrip with no respect for all of the years of service 15-20 + year members put in, but at the end of the day, I know that the guys, who's ability I know and who I've trained side by side with, can be given tasks that will be completed efficiantly and more importantly, safely. At the end of the day, I cannot jepordize peoples safety by sending the 20 year guy, who has been in 50 + fires, but hasn't kept up with training, into a fire and hope he remembers what to do from his last worker 5 years ago.
Maybe I'm the a******, but at least I know safety will not be compromised

Been there, done that, and thirty years later, I'm still doing that. I am continually stressing training in my Company/FD. For over thirty years (with eleven years as an Officer in my current FD) I have seen the same thing you are talking about.
The way I have done it, is to keep taking training courses. Go to seminars. Go to trade shows (http://newenglandfirechiefs.org/page.asp_Q_navigationid_E_1) is a good one I have gone to a couple of times. Keep learning. The more training you personally acquire, the more confidence you will have to pass this knowledge you learn to newer (and hopefully senior) members. The acquisition of knowledge will help you back up your position and hopefully get the respect of all members of your FD. With this respect comes the ability to hopefully change attitudes. It takes time, and I remember way back then (when I had five years in the FD) I was just like you. It just takes time.
Even with thirty years in my FD, I still attend at least one or two courses at the County Training Center each year, and attend trade show/seminars.
Expect to keep banging your head against the proverbial wall. That's what helmets are for .

I also agree that the database at RadioReference is the place to look. Chauffeur6, the NYS database administrator, is also a member here (different screen name), and has recently finished "cleaning up" the NYS database @ RR.com. So, you should have no problem with the Westchester database.
I am seeing some issues with your list.
First, I do not see that you have the Trunked System assigned. If you do not set this System up, with it's frequencies AND custom settings, in two separate banks (one for the North Zone frequencies AND another bank with the South Zone frequencies) you will not be able to track (listen) to Fire 15 & 18, EMS 15 & 18.
Second, it would be helpful if you listed what scanner you have so that we can know the capabilities of it. Newer scanners have different features than older scanners. Older scanners (like one of mine) do not have the capabilitiy of PL/DPL tones per frequency. Newer scanners also have the capability of custom labels per frequency/talkgroup.
It would also be helpful to let us know what you would like to listen to (Fire, EMS, PD(local, County, State), DPW, Hospital). Do you only listen locally, or do you listen around the County (if you have a portable)? If portable, do you want to listen to CT, or other locations (Nassau & Suffolk)? With this input we can help you with your reprogamming.

The drawback is that you have to listen to the BeeLine buses, the Hospitals, in addition to what you want to listen to. Listening to the buses can get boring pretty quickly, without a way of turning them off. Just my opinion.

Been there, done that, and thirty years later, I'm still doing that. I am continually stressing training in my Company/FD. For over thirty years (with eleven years as an Officer in my current FD) I have seen the same thing you are talking about.
The way I have done it, is to keep taking training courses. Go to seminars. Go to trade shows (http://newenglandfirechiefs.org/page.asp_Q_navigationid_E_1) is a good one I have gone to a couple of times. Keep learning. The more training you personally acquire, the more confidence you will have to pass this knowledge you learn to newer (and hopefully senior) members. The acquisition of knowledge will help you back up your position and hopefully get the respect of all members of your FD. With this respect comes the ability to hopefully change attitudes. It takes time, and I remember way back then (when I had five years in the FD) I was just like you. It just takes time.
Even with thirty years in my FD, I still attend at least one or two courses at the County Training Center each year, and attend trade show/seminars.
Expect to keep banging your head against the proverbial wall. That's what helmets are for .

Been there, done that, and thirty years later, I'm still doing that. I am continually stressing training in my Company/FD. For over thirty years (with eleven years as an Officer in my current FD) I have seen the same thing you are talking about.
The way I have done it, is to keep taking training courses. Go to seminars. Go to trade shows (http://newenglandfirechiefs.org/page.asp_Q_navigationid_E_1) is a good one I have gone to a couple of times. Keep learning. The more training you personally acquire, the more confidence you will have to pass this knowledge you learn to newer (and hopefully senior) members. The acquisition of knowledge will help you back up your position and hopefully get the respect of all members of your FD. With this respect comes the ability to hopefully change attitudes. It takes time, and I remember way back then (when I had five years in the FD) I was just like you. It just takes time.
Even with thirty years in my FD, I still attend at least one or two courses at the County Training Center each year, and attend trade show/seminars.
Expect to keep banging your head against the proverbial wall. That's what helmets are for .

Been there, done that, and thirty years later, I'm still doing that. I am continually stressing training in my Company/FD. For over thirty years (with eleven years as an Officer in my current FD) I have seen the same thing you are talking about.
The way I have done it, is to keep taking training courses. Go to seminars. Go to trade shows (http://newenglandfirechiefs.org/page.asp_Q_navigationid_E_1) is a good one I have gone to a couple of times. Keep learning. The more training you personally acquire, the more confidence you will have to pass this knowledge you learn to newer (and hopefully senior) members. The acquisition of knowledge will help you back up your position and hopefully get the respect of all members of your FD. With this respect comes the ability to hopefully change attitudes. It takes time, and I remember way back then (when I had five years in the FD) I was just like you. It just takes time.
Even with thirty years in my FD, I still attend at least one or two courses at the County Training Center each year, and attend trade show/seminars.
Expect to keep banging your head against the proverbial wall. That's what helmets are for .

Been there, done that, and thirty years later, I'm still doing that. I am continually stressing training in my Company/FD. For over thirty years (with eleven years as an Officer in my current FD) I have seen the same thing you are talking about.
The way I have done it, is to keep taking training courses. Go to seminars. Go to trade shows (http://newenglandfirechiefs.org/page.asp_Q_navigationid_E_1) is a good one I have gone to a couple of times. Keep learning. The more training you personally acquire, the more confidence you will have to pass this knowledge you learn to newer (and hopefully senior) members. The acquisition of knowledge will help you back up your position and hopefully get the respect of all members of your FD. With this respect comes the ability to hopefully change attitudes. It takes time, and I remember way back then (when I had five years in the FD) I was just like you. It just takes time.
Even with thirty years in my FD, I still attend at least one or two courses at the County Training Center each year, and attend trade show/seminars.
Expect to keep banging your head against the proverbial wall. That's what helmets are for .

I also agree that the database at RadioReference is the place to look. Chauffeur6, the NYS database administrator, is also a member here (different screen name), and has recently finished "cleaning up" the NYS database @ RR.com. So, you should have no problem with the Westchester database.
I am seeing some issues with your list.
First, I do not see that you have the Trunked System assigned. If you do not set this System up, with it's frequencies AND custom settings, in two separate banks (one for the North Zone frequencies AND another bank with the South Zone frequencies) you will not be able to track (listen) to Fire 15 & 18, EMS 15 & 18.
Second, it would be helpful if you listed what scanner you have so that we can know the capabilities of it. Newer scanners have different features than older scanners. Older scanners (like one of mine) do not have the capabilitiy of PL/DPL tones per frequency. Newer scanners also have the capability of custom labels per frequency/talkgroup.
It would also be helpful to let us know what you would like to listen to (Fire, EMS, PD(local, County, State), DPW, Hospital). Do you only listen locally, or do you listen around the County (if you have a portable)? If portable, do you want to listen to CT, or other locations (Nassau & Suffolk)? With this input we can help you with your reprogamming.

You beat me to this pic. I took almost the same one two weeks ago, just haven't had time to post them.

You beat me to this pic. I took almost the same one two weeks ago, just haven't had time to post them.

Yesterday morning (Friday) about 10AM, I came across what looked like a "Mutual Aid" staging assignment for ConEd. This was located at a hotel located off of I684. There were probably about 40 - 50 vehicles located here from pickup trucks to bucket trucks, with a couple of cars from ConEd. As you can see in the pictures this company, http://www.wearediversified.com/, brought along some interesting "toys".

Yesterday morning (Friday) about 10AM, I came across what looked like a "Mutual Aid" staging assignment for ConEd. This was located at a hotel located off of I684. There were probably about 40 - 50 vehicles located here from pickup trucks to bucket trucks, with a couple of cars from ConEd. As you can see in the pictures this company, http://www.wearediversified.com/, brought along some interesting "toys".

I agree but before we run we need to walk and crawl......most agencies have not planned for 10 patients.

Heres a few pictures i got.

Today I received notification that our application to narrowband our UHF frequencies has been approved. The whole process took just less than a month for the FCC to approve. The application was accepted 6/14/12 and approved today 7/11/12. As I stated above it was relatively easy to do and there was NO CHARGE to modify the license for this narrowbanding.

Thanks for the link. Just doing a quick look, there are some that are "incorrect":
453.8750MHz - Peekskill FD (still licensed for freq. but repeater has been off for several years)
470.6000MHz, 476.4125MHz, 476.8625MHz, 477.0250MHz, 477.0500MHz, 477.0750MHz - Westchester County (freq's licensed during the buildup for the Trunked System, but never used for the System.)
37.10MHz - Briarcliff Manor & Sleepy Hollow Police (both have been on VHF-Hi for at least 25 years).

The current list of Westchester County Fire Departments with 46.26MHz cross band repeaters is as follows:
Banksville 453.2625MHz DPL 261
Briarcliff Manor 460.1125MHz DPL 243
Croton on Hudson 453.0250MHz DPL 065
Mohegan Lake 453.2750MHz DPL 226
Montrose 453.4125MHz DPL 244
Yorktown IBM 453.5625MHz DPL 306
Yorktown French Hill 453.5625MHz DPL 606
This has been posted previously, but due to the new software I am posting it again for ease of searching inthe future.

How many home owners realize that they're in a non-hydrant area? Of those that do, how many know what exactly that means for their fire protection? My father is an educated man rarely completely ignorant of a subject. He long ago realized that in the event of a fire if it goes beyond that first room he prefered it burn to the ground to save him on demolition and waste hauling costs. He was also well aware of the pitfalls of volunteer fire protection and had his home well insured. This was all many years before I became a volley. The one consolation he took was there is a hydrant 50' from our propety. Only after I joined the local FD did we find out how useless that hydrant was.
The point to this ramble is the average home owner has no idea. They see an FD full of trucks a few blocks away and assume they're protected. Since FDs are the last to advertise their ineptitude who is going to tell the homeowners they're on their own?