firemoose827

With the mind set of today, responders need to be cognizant of so called soft-targets with strip malls and placed of public assembly fitting the bill. People think of terrorist targets as midtown Manhattan or mass transit and not downtown Anytown, USA. This allows for the guard to be let down just enough for the unspeakable. The fact that this is an unmarked box truck with no driver to be found should raise a "red flag" to responders to use added caution approaching the vehicle as it may not be as simple a vehicle fire. A quick question of the store owner with the hose if he was expecting a delivery may increase that "red flag" issue if the response is a no. A proactive, cautionary, and defensive approach can mean the difference between going home in the rig or a bag.

Your department is dispatched to a reported vehicle fire in the local strip mall. The dispatcher can only tell you the call was recieved from a Cell phone, the vehicle is located behind the building in the shipping/receiving area, and the caller hung up before he could gain more info.
Your response is your typical assingment for your department (Be honest and realistic with equipment and manpower! ) and its 1:30PM on a Tuesday in August. Its clear and 91 degrees with a slight breeze.
When you arrive you see this;

http://www.lawrencer.../LRFC_news.html
Unmarked, next to the building, no driver present and the only other person there is the store owner trying to use a garden hose for extinguishment.
What are your priorities? What are the tactical considerations you will use? What factors should you be thinking about when you arrive as a company officer/senior firefighter to see this?
Discuss...

Cogs, you make some good points, and before I respond let me first clarify...Im glad the son-of-a-b**** bastard is dead, I believe he deserved a more painful and drawn out death/prisonment with a cell mate named bubba who loves bacon at every meal and lost a loved one during the attacks, but, (theres always a but)
We gave him a proper burial following muslim customs because we are better than people like him and we are not at war with the muslim religion...we are at war with the terrorists that mislead people to think that they follow that religion. Bin-Ladden was killed, an attempt was made to capture him first but he refused (thankfully) and they shot him; trouble over. Do we need to desecrate his corpse? No. We as americans are better, more civilized and show more respect for other religions and races, which is what separates us from these low life cowardly bastards that spread terror every day. The muslims have certain burial procedures and we followed them out of respect for them...NOT bin-ladden or his followers sakes. We are better than that.
I agree with you about the belley-aching over the use of "Geronimo", I got sick to my stomache when I heard it on the radio this morning. Get a life people...Its a dammed code name. We killed an evil man, so what that we used geronimo as a code name, its not an attack against the indian race or meant as an insult so get over it.

Cogs, you make some good points, and before I respond let me first clarify...Im glad the son-of-a-b**** bastard is dead, I believe he deserved a more painful and drawn out death/prisonment with a cell mate named bubba who loves bacon at every meal and lost a loved one during the attacks, but, (theres always a but)
We gave him a proper burial following muslim customs because we are better than people like him and we are not at war with the muslim religion...we are at war with the terrorists that mislead people to think that they follow that religion. Bin-Ladden was killed, an attempt was made to capture him first but he refused (thankfully) and they shot him; trouble over. Do we need to desecrate his corpse? No. We as americans are better, more civilized and show more respect for other religions and races, which is what separates us from these low life cowardly bastards that spread terror every day. The muslims have certain burial procedures and we followed them out of respect for them...NOT bin-ladden or his followers sakes. We are better than that.
I agree with you about the belley-aching over the use of "Geronimo", I got sick to my stomache when I heard it on the radio this morning. Get a life people...Its a dammed code name. We killed an evil man, so what that we used geronimo as a code name, its not an attack against the indian race or meant as an insult so get over it.

Glad that MFer is dead. I would have preferred a slow death, just long enough to see the American flag on the shoulders of the unit that got him. With that said, STAY VIGILANT. This is not the end.

This is good news, but.....
....there are plenty of cave dwelling, terror loving, U.S. hating scum out there. Someone will step up and fill his shoes, we need to be vigilant going forward.

Don't drop your guard, my brothers. Islam has declared Jihad long ago and it may not end with Bin Ladin's death.
I would be ready for some kind of retaliation on the US by the radicals.
Stay aware, Stay Safe.

Good news: There will be 40 virgins waiting for him.
Bad news: Paddy Brown, Ray Downey and a bunch of their friends are also waiting for him.

I hope his 70 virgins are all men and he "recieves" what he deserves for eternity.

I agree. Sometimes, good people get caught in the middle of bad things, or good people do bad things during desperate times like stealing to provide for a hungry family. Everyone deserves a second chance to prove they are sorry, and regret what they did and repay their debt to society, why not allow them to do so in a productive way? These guys ran out into the water and attempted to save lives by putting their own life on the line...do you think real ruthless criminals would have done the same?
We have a correctional facility that deals with teenaged offenders and they always come out to large brush fires to help with mop-up. They take the less-violent ones that have had some rehab and train them in wildland firefighting, than they come out and assist us hit hot spots and clean up. We have never had an issue with them.

Also chief, every firefighter should take the "Building Construction For The Fire Service" courses available. I took two of them and they are invaluable to have, lots of info about building components and the effects of fire impingment, collapse signs, load factors and such. Great course.

I dont know the specifics for this fire so I am clearly not speaking for these guys, but in my experience up here by me, driving into farms, fields, or logging roads is sometimes the ONLY way to get to the fire. I have driven in a fire engine into field and forest many times to extinguish brush fires that could easily have turned worse without water. We dont have choppers (aerial tankers?) so we have to drive it or walk it in.
SOme of our departments have 4wd engines, and some dont. We have brush trucks, but they only carry 250-300 gallons of water. If we can get the 1000 gallon engine close enough to use it as a fill station for the brush units than we do it, its an effective tactic, otherwise we have to drive the brush units long distance to a pond, creek, or other water source to refill. Having the engine, or even a tanker with a pump, close to the scene helps out in the long run.
Besides...every brush fire has the capability to turn into a major fire, threatening homes, businesses and lives, so the earlier you jump on it the better. Just saying that could be the reason they drove the rig into the field.
Hope that helps. Stay safe.

I posted this photo because I believe this method of construction has implications to firefighters. Many methods of construction are adept at holding up the load under normal circumstances. I beams are very strong and are widely used in buildings. (And they are usually enclosed in a protection membrane or coated with a fire retardant.)
The method of construction in this picture has obviously worked for many years and probably will hold the load under normal circumstances. That said, I find concern that during a fire, the unprotected steel could cause collapse to the building it supports. A fire in the building to the left or an auto fire underneath could easily cause failure of the I beam. Firefighters responding at night in the building to the left might not immediately see that the building to the right is held up by steel which is being heated up.
Recently at a fire in Yonkers, a cockloft fire heated an I beam and pushed out a parapet wall, narrowly missing some firefighters. Steel elongates once heated. "Heated to 1000 deg. F, a steel member will expand 9 1/2 inches over 100 ft. of length...at temperatures above 1000 deg. F,...steel starts to soften and fail, depending upon load." (* p.272)
*All serious firefighters should read "Building Construction for the Fire Service" by Francis Brannigan. Chapter 7, titled "Steel Construction" is particularly relevant to this discussion. Be safe.

I work as a freelance grant writer, so hopefully I'll be able to offer a little bit of help for those looking for grants as well as those applying for them.
In the world of grants, there is a "grants season," usually in spring and early summer, when many (although not all) grants become available. Now is the best time to start looking for funding opportunities for the upcoming year.
One of the biggest challenges in grant seeking (i.e., finding grants to apply for) is creativity. The grant opportunities that are easiest to think of and look for are the ones that you'll have the most competition for--everybody else thought of them and applied for them, too. Although it's important to look at the usual sources--Grants.gov for federal grants as well as the various state government departments' web sites (and Google!)--it can also be helpful to think about unusual sources, too. Corporate foundations might be interested in contributing to your project, for instance. Also keep in mind that, even though money is the most versatile type of funding, in-kind contributions (actual products or services instead of the money to buy them) are also tremendously helpful.
Your project can be significantly bolstered by community support. Imagine being a prospective grantor, with several hundred thousand dollars to give to a worthy cause. How likely would you be to fund a project that the community is wholeheartedly behind and supportive of versus one where the extent of community support is unknown? It can be very helpful to your grant application when you reach out to the community--local government officials, leaders of civic groups, citizens your department has helped--and they tell grantors, in their own words, how vital your project is. As an added bonus, reaching out could yield information about other grant opportunities or, if you're really lucky, the holy grail of grant writing: connections!
It's also worth mentioning that it's dangerous to put all your eggs in one basket. Very often, people ask one prospective grantor for 100% of the funds needed for their project. Grant seeking is an uphill battle--for a million different reasons, even the best grant applications don't always get funded--and, sadly, it's more likely than not that your application won't be funded. Applying for only one grant from only one grantor makes it extraordinarily likely that you won't get your project funded. Instead, consider applying for a variety of different grants, each of which is intended to fund a portion of your project. Beyond enhancing the likelihood that you'll get some funding (a partially-funded project is better than an unfunded project... you can work with a little money, but not with no money at all), you'll also be demonstrating to prospective grantors that they're not "going it alone"--that they're sharing the risk with other grantors--and that you're not asking them for a lot of money. Usually, the number of funding sources you seek out should be in proportion to the magnitude of your project (and its budget).
Make sure that your (and your agency's) thinking is crystal clear about the project you're interested in seeking funding for. All aspects of the project need to be well thought-out: What, exactly do you want to do? Why do you want to do it? What are other agencies doing to address this problem? Why is your approach the best? Where is every cent of money going to go? How much support is there for your project? What else have you done to address the problem? Where else have you gone for support? In the same way that you wouldn't want to give your own money to somebody who wants to buy "a bunch of stuff that's awesome," prospective funders have no interest in giving money to a poorly-conceived project. In a funder's eyes, it's destined for failure and a waste of money that could go to another, more worthy, project. As an aside, although it could be argued that this shouldn't be the case, the quality of writing in your grant proposal does make a difference. Good writing comes from clear thinking, and it can really give your project a competitive edge.
There are a lot of resources online about grant seeking and writing, as well as some pretty good books on the subject, that can offer much more comprehensive advice than I can here. (It's late, but I'll post them tomorrow if anybody is interested.) But, these are the little tips I've come up with from having gone through the grant process successfully (and unsuccessfully, too) and hopefully they'll be able to help someone....

May he Rest In Peace and may his brothers and sisters take comfort in our support.
Its a tragedy that needs to be stopped. Not specific to his incident because I dont know how or why he crashed, but I see it too often up here. People drive recklessly to calls in their POV so they can make the truck and be first in the fire...Why...
I hope the family and friends are coping, all my best to everyone.
STAY SAFE...

May he Rest In Peace and may his brothers and sisters take comfort in our support.
Its a tragedy that needs to be stopped. Not specific to his incident because I dont know how or why he crashed, but I see it too often up here. People drive recklessly to calls in their POV so they can make the truck and be first in the fire...Why...
I hope the family and friends are coping, all my best to everyone.
STAY SAFE...

such a tragic lose of life---young 18 year old -my heart goes out to his family and the Department. Do we finally learn form this?? SLOW DOWN BUCKLE UP over 25% of firefighter deaths have something to do with driving.

It is such a tragedy that the life of this young firefighter was cut short while responding to a fire scene. RIP Brother!


USFA Firefighter Memorial Database

I hope someone also educated the chief of the dangers of venting the building before a hoseline is ready to make an attack? The last few years have proven that the fire service can learn new tricks and utilize actual science to assess how specific tactics effect the fireground. Anyone who hasn't had a chance to look at any of the work that Chicago FD, FDNY, UL and NIST (and others) has done should take a look on the UL website for some excellent training on how fire behaves under different conditions. The legend vs. modern home furnishing fires are particularly interesting as they show why many of yesteryears tactics need to be reevaluated or at least properly understood. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/buildingmaterials/fire/fireservice/
It sounds like this chief needs to recognize that today's smoldering fires are very often (always?) ventilation regulated and contain large amounts of superheated unburned particles and gases from modern household contents (plastics). While true backdraft is a rare occurrence, rapid fire development due to providing oxygen to these gases and particles should be anticipated.

He was, by both our chief and his at our drill night following the fire.
It was a modular style ranch house with energy efficient windows and doors, and it just snuffed out the fire. When he opened the front door the air slowly started to feed the fire, which was about 40 feet away from the front door but only 6 feet away from the back slider. When we took that the air hit it and it took off. It flashed in the laundry room just off the dining room where we made entry and started to come out into the dining area quick, but we hit it there and stopped it. There was even-char in the dining and kitchen, skylight covers melted in the kitchen but the glass held, and it just smoldered from there.
We were lucky no one got hurt, and our crew got the full critique 2 nights later and we explained it better to them as well. We also told this guy to never cancel our MA or our FAST response again without our approval, we ended up calling the MA BACK to the scene and they were a little upset, and the FAST team asked us what happened as well, but we explained it and they laughed it off.
Lesson Learned, everyone went home, no one hurt (except ego), and we have a better working relationship with our mutual aid dept now as a result of this with regular joint drills being planned.

I had an interesting fire a few weeks ago that reminded me of this topic and I just had to share it.
We were dispatched to a structure fire at around 0530 along with our automatic mutual aid dept per our protocols. I called enroute to the station, and while responding, an assistant chief from the MA dept calls on scene and starts to call off all of our MA including the FAST response...Ok, at that point I guessed it was nothing.
I arrive on scene in the engine to find said chief standing in the yard, no gear, hands in pockets, telling me "Its nothing, just a tiny smoldering fire near the back door"...Ok, starting to get a little annoyed by his canceling our MA and FAST.
I walk towords the front of the house to do my sizeup and see blackened windows, an open front door with smoke banking down to knee level and intense heat felt through my gear, the windows were hot to the touch...Im starting to think at this point that this chief needs to go back to being a black coat.
I find out at this point that I am the only officer on scene from my dept and realise no report or assumption of command had been made, and I started to get my radio when my assistant chief shows up. I tell him what we REALY have and he too looks at me like hes going to go and give this "Chief" a piece of his mind also, than tell the crew to stretch the crosslay to the front door while I went to get a pack.
In just the minute or so it took to pack up, this "Chief" tells my crew to take the line around back instead of the front door, which was like a 300 foot stretch and our crosslays are 200 foot. My chief is now around the back doing his sizeup and could not stop them.
By now Im pissed. I find the crew, who were all anxious to tell me that the line wasnt going to reach the back door, I calmly tell them thats exactly why I told them to go to the front door. By now our chief just yells for the pump operator to throw 3 more lengths on the line and we go to the back door, a glass sliding door, locked with the panic bar on the track, so we couldnt even force it. So...A perfectly good sliding door had to be broken. I make entry and immediately feel the intense heat through my gear, and see the flames start to grow deeper inside the room, than whammo, the laundry room about 6 feet in front of me receives the fresh air we let in and it flashes over.
Turned out that the fire started, than lost oxygen and just smoldered in the laundry room. The small "Smoldering" fire this chief saw was the drapes that caught fire, dropped to the floor, and were still burning by the slider. When we took the slider out the air rushed in and fueled the fire and it flashed. COuld have been worse, yes, and we were lucky, actually that "Chief" was lucky. Another 10 minutes and both myself and our chief would have been at work and there would have been none of our officers there to stop them from just going in to this house blind and getting burned.
We talked to this chief, and asked what he did when he arrived, and he said he just looked through the back door nd saw the small lick of flames, he went and opened the front door to start to vent the smoke out so we could find it easier, than called dispatch to cancel the mutual aid response.
Good sizeup is KEY to the outcome of the fire. This chief knows about good sizeup now, and he learned it from us.
Stay Safe

Yes but they could be more considerate!! I mean c'mon, 3am every thursday night? LOL

My SUNY school has the same efficient system. Minus the fly car. The members are very dedicated. Its a good thing. Even a drunk needs a friendly and dedicated person to care after them.

I agree with you brother. I have been here for 22 years, I am a captain now, and I see it way too much. The same old excuse every time the training schedule comes around, their too busy and have no time. But then when it comes time for the chief to pick someone for a task, they suddenly feel as if they are more than qualified? If you dont have the training you wont do the task. They cry all the time that its too much time...suck it up. You want to fight fires you need to know what your doing, yet they all think they can pack up right of the street with no training, and why, well ofcourse, because their daddy is or was chief, or their uncle, grand-daddy, mother, brother, sister, aunt....Does having a relative in the dept make you trained?? Dont think so.
I have a guy in my dept running around telling everyone he is trained as an interior firefighter, yet he cant give us certificates when asked. So one day I get sick of listening to the blowhard bragging and I call the fire coordinators office and request a copy of his training transcripts. What do I get? Two classes...Essentials and AVET. After an extensive argument at the firehouse I finaly got him to understand that you cant hide behind the term "Volunteer" and pretend to be what you are not. Essentials of back then is the equivilent of todays Scene Support Ops, I told him if he wants to be interior he has until fall to get Firefighter I, FBAA, and Firefighter Safety & Survival, then he has to get checked out at a drill.
Sorry for the rant, its kind of jumbled and off topic a little but its something that bothers me. We go into IDLH situations every time we get the call, and yet there are still volunteers that do not hold themsleves to the same training standards as the rest of us, and no one does anything about it. Not me, not any more, now that I am an officer things are going to change in my department. I would rather have 2 or 3 QUALIFIED interiors and have to rely on mutual aid more, than continue to have people with little to no training.
Stay safe out there.

I agree with you brother. I have been here for 22 years, I am a captain now, and I see it way too much. The same old excuse every time the training schedule comes around, their too busy and have no time. But then when it comes time for the chief to pick someone for a task, they suddenly feel as if they are more than qualified? If you dont have the training you wont do the task. They cry all the time that its too much time...suck it up. You want to fight fires you need to know what your doing, yet they all think they can pack up right of the street with no training, and why, well ofcourse, because their daddy is or was chief, or their uncle, grand-daddy, mother, brother, sister, aunt....Does having a relative in the dept make you trained?? Dont think so.
I have a guy in my dept running around telling everyone he is trained as an interior firefighter, yet he cant give us certificates when asked. So one day I get sick of listening to the blowhard bragging and I call the fire coordinators office and request a copy of his training transcripts. What do I get? Two classes...Essentials and AVET. After an extensive argument at the firehouse I finaly got him to understand that you cant hide behind the term "Volunteer" and pretend to be what you are not. Essentials of back then is the equivilent of todays Scene Support Ops, I told him if he wants to be interior he has until fall to get Firefighter I, FBAA, and Firefighter Safety & Survival, then he has to get checked out at a drill.
Sorry for the rant, its kind of jumbled and off topic a little but its something that bothers me. We go into IDLH situations every time we get the call, and yet there are still volunteers that do not hold themsleves to the same training standards as the rest of us, and no one does anything about it. Not me, not any more, now that I am an officer things are going to change in my department. I would rather have 2 or 3 QUALIFIED interiors and have to rely on mutual aid more, than continue to have people with little to no training.
Stay safe out there.