firemoose827

Remembering the 343 FDNY, 23 NYPD, 37 Port Authority PD, the 2,977 innocent lives that were lost 12 years ago. And thank you to our Heroes.. our firefighters, police, ems, military, and K-9 units who rushed down to the towers to look for our love ones and the innocent lives day in and day out.
~9/11/01 Never Forgotten~

12 years later gone but will never be forgotten. We still got your back
We remember the 343 Firefighters in NYC that died that day but we should not forget all the Police officers, EMT's and victims on the planes, in the Towers or the Pentagon and especially those who are suffering from or passed away from cancer because they dug the rubble at the site.
Or the K-9's that helped that got sick

Let us not forget 9/11/01. Let us not forget the 343 Fire Fighters who gave the ultiment sacrfice on this tragic day. 12 years later lets sound our sirens across this nation to reflect and pray! Please.. Never forget!

I may have started this topic but lets not forget I am also a Moderator. Lets keep the personal jabs out of the discussion and let each other share their opinions and beliefs, this is un-professional to say the least and these type of personal attacks have no merrit either in this discussion or this site. No more personal insults or warnings will go out.
Please carry on the informative part of this discussion and keep personal insults out of it. Thank you.

Reminds me of my job; they guys all complained about work load and too much over time; once the company hired more manpower, the overtime virtually dried up and they almost all to a man complained there was virtually no overtime. They shot themselves in the foot in the long run.

Not to be argumentative, but I think it would be safe to say he does have values, just that his values are different from your values/viewpoints.

I volunteer to help my community and do something productive with my time. I LOVE being a fireman.
I also understand and respect not responding to career depts. that are getting shafted with layoffs and hiring freezes I get it.
I never got into the career vs volunteer bs, so please don't interpret this as that.
My question is : Where is the brotherhood in career members complaining in one breath about the lack of manpower, but then complaining again when they hire because their overtime is either cut or now nonexistent with the new hires

Do what you must, as for me I will NEVER refuse a call for help no matter who it's from.
Stay Safe

I respect your opinion and agree with it for the most part. But I will respectfully ask you this; please do not group all of us in this 80% group that you have experienced until you have actually worked with all of us.
I may not be at the firehouse as much as I want to be, or I may not have fought as many fires as you have fought, but I have fought fires, I have done searches for victims many times and have found them, but not the way I wanted to find them and its multiple images I will never get rid of and a source of pain for my pride that I could not help these people. I train hard, harder than any other volunteer in my department, and currently hold many titles that i will not waste time posting. I take pride in what I do and was brought up the right way with that sense of brotherhood, and I learned that brotherhood from those three career FDNY guys I had the priviledge of working with my first 4 years in the fire service on Long Island and will never forget them.
Im not your typical volunteer, and there are others here on this site that are not the typical volunteer either. Dont get me wrong, there are the wackers here that "Play" volunteer fireman, and dress up and think its cool to play with sirens and deck their cars out with all sorts of strobes and flashers and blinky things...not me. I take it seriously. Im one of the volunteers that strongly agree we should have the same training standards and physical fitness requirements that career firefighters have and am actively fighting that with letters to my government reps and FASNY. I blog about it in another firefighters web site I go to frequently as well and try to get others to agree.
I enter the same burning buildings with the same turnout gear and the same set of irons and the same hose line and I agressively attack the seat of the fire just like I am trained to do.
I think the brotherhood has been killed by situations like these (the above mentioned experiences between volunteer and career members). If you look at my experience with the 4 career staff at the large main street fire, should he realy have acted that way towords me? Especially since most would think a young guy like me should be the one picking up the hose instead of the more experienced member? I was doing what my father and other senior guys taught me all my life; respect the senior men and officers, always jump in and help any firefighter no matter what the job, and always be first to volunteer for any assignment.
I am thankfull for all of the replies on this topic as well as all of the messages I received from members regarding brotherhood and sharing your stories with me too. I respect all of your opinions and I am thankfull no major wars have been started yet. Keep the discussion going and share more brotherhood experiences and stay safe. Have a great weekend too!

Well I guess it's time for pitchforks and torches again...
I never could get the argument that volunteers are "taking food out of" a paid members mouth. If you're a career member in a combo dept, you show up, do your job for X number of hours and you go home. You get paid for the hours you work (the hours your contract states your entitled to at the salary you agreed to) no matter how many volunteers show up, or don't. How then are volunteers taking food out of anyone's mouth? And let's be clear overtime is NOT an entitlement, that's why it's called overtime.
Now a paid member volunteering in a combo dept. is quite another story if his volunteer service directly impacts a career members ability to earn his base salary.
As I stated earlier on, the most obvious (and detrimental) sign of the decline of brotherhood is the relationship between career and volunteer members. The more we accept or promote the divisive rationales like volunteers "take food" out of anyone's mouth or career members "are only in it for the money" the larger the gap and problems will grow
Fire away

Here is where I do not agree with some of you guys...this is a bit wrong on all levels. If you are career in a combination department and you feel "threatened" by the volunteers that might "take your job away" there is more issues there then you know. If I was a volunteer in a career combination department I would not be trying to take anyones job. I would have my resume in for when there are openings from retirement or someone moving out of the area, but I would never try to back-stab a brother who is already being paid for the job. I am still going to be volunteer and have tremendous pride in being able to respond to calls and help where I can, but would never step on the toes of the career crew, or back-stab them in any way. If this is happening; SHAME on those members.
But on the other hand; SHAME on those career guys simply for thinking that just because a volunteer shows up, they are taking the "fork" out of your mouths. They are showing up to help you, back you up and make sure you all go home at the end of the shift so you CAN pick up that fork with your family. We should alll WORK TOGETHER, dont you think??? This thinking is all wrong and I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here either, but those of us volunteers that take pride in our training and pride in our ability to help others only want to help; both the people we serve and our career brothers/sisters who are severely under-staffed and under-funded. I for one dont want to see any ONE career firefighter have to do EVERYTHING alone, I want to help, I want to make sure they dont get hurt, not back-stab them.
Maybe I am wrong in this line of thinking and i know there are those scum out there trying to take your job from you, everyone wants to be career firefighter and support their families doing a job they LOVE, but it shouldnt divide us...shouldnt it?

Here is where I do not agree with some of you guys...this is a bit wrong on all levels. If you are career in a combination department and you feel "threatened" by the volunteers that might "take your job away" there is more issues there then you know. If I was a volunteer in a career combination department I would not be trying to take anyones job. I would have my resume in for when there are openings from retirement or someone moving out of the area, but I would never try to back-stab a brother who is already being paid for the job. I am still going to be volunteer and have tremendous pride in being able to respond to calls and help where I can, but would never step on the toes of the career crew, or back-stab them in any way. If this is happening; SHAME on those members.
But on the other hand; SHAME on those career guys simply for thinking that just because a volunteer shows up, they are taking the "fork" out of your mouths. They are showing up to help you, back you up and make sure you all go home at the end of the shift so you CAN pick up that fork with your family. We should alll WORK TOGETHER, dont you think??? This thinking is all wrong and I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here either, but those of us volunteers that take pride in our training and pride in our ability to help others only want to help; both the people we serve and our career brothers/sisters who are severely under-staffed and under-funded. I for one dont want to see any ONE career firefighter have to do EVERYTHING alone, I want to help, I want to make sure they dont get hurt, not back-stab them.
Maybe I am wrong in this line of thinking and i know there are those scum out there trying to take your job from you, everyone wants to be career firefighter and support their families doing a job they LOVE, but it shouldnt divide us...shouldnt it?

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

Here is where I do not agree with some of you guys...this is a bit wrong on all levels. If you are career in a combination department and you feel "threatened" by the volunteers that might "take your job away" there is more issues there then you know. If I was a volunteer in a career combination department I would not be trying to take anyones job. I would have my resume in for when there are openings from retirement or someone moving out of the area, but I would never try to back-stab a brother who is already being paid for the job. I am still going to be volunteer and have tremendous pride in being able to respond to calls and help where I can, but would never step on the toes of the career crew, or back-stab them in any way. If this is happening; SHAME on those members.
But on the other hand; SHAME on those career guys simply for thinking that just because a volunteer shows up, they are taking the "fork" out of your mouths. They are showing up to help you, back you up and make sure you all go home at the end of the shift so you CAN pick up that fork with your family. We should alll WORK TOGETHER, dont you think??? This thinking is all wrong and I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here either, but those of us volunteers that take pride in our training and pride in our ability to help others only want to help; both the people we serve and our career brothers/sisters who are severely under-staffed and under-funded. I for one dont want to see any ONE career firefighter have to do EVERYTHING alone, I want to help, I want to make sure they dont get hurt, not back-stab them.
Maybe I am wrong in this line of thinking and i know there are those scum out there trying to take your job from you, everyone wants to be career firefighter and support their families doing a job they LOVE, but it shouldnt divide us...shouldnt it?

Here is where I do not agree with some of you guys...this is a bit wrong on all levels. If you are career in a combination department and you feel "threatened" by the volunteers that might "take your job away" there is more issues there then you know. If I was a volunteer in a career combination department I would not be trying to take anyones job. I would have my resume in for when there are openings from retirement or someone moving out of the area, but I would never try to back-stab a brother who is already being paid for the job. I am still going to be volunteer and have tremendous pride in being able to respond to calls and help where I can, but would never step on the toes of the career crew, or back-stab them in any way. If this is happening; SHAME on those members.
But on the other hand; SHAME on those career guys simply for thinking that just because a volunteer shows up, they are taking the "fork" out of your mouths. They are showing up to help you, back you up and make sure you all go home at the end of the shift so you CAN pick up that fork with your family. We should alll WORK TOGETHER, dont you think??? This thinking is all wrong and I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here either, but those of us volunteers that take pride in our training and pride in our ability to help others only want to help; both the people we serve and our career brothers/sisters who are severely under-staffed and under-funded. I for one dont want to see any ONE career firefighter have to do EVERYTHING alone, I want to help, I want to make sure they dont get hurt, not back-stab them.
Maybe I am wrong in this line of thinking and i know there are those scum out there trying to take your job from you, everyone wants to be career firefighter and support their families doing a job they LOVE, but it shouldnt divide us...shouldnt it?

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

More than a few years ago, talking with someone from a different department than I was in, he told me of a plan to renovate part of their meeting hall into a new day room. I asked why as the building had recently had an extension put on that added a new day room as well as other rooms. His answer was so that the volunteers would have somewhere to hang out. I had been to that station and sat in the day room with both volunteer and paid firefighters, so this was kind of confusing. However the clear sentiment was one of building a wall of separation.
This is not brotherhood.
The idea that you might have two groups in the same firehouse hanging out in two different rooms then meeting in the dark of night on the apparatus floor and expecting to work as a cohesive crew makes no sense to me. I suppose this is a slightly more dramatic form of everyone off on their own with cellphones or laptops.
However the guy who told me of the two day rooms plan plan is a brother. We have been to training together and later at fires and other calls together. I would work side by side with him again any time. He is now a career firefighter.

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

Not if they wanted to get back at you for something.