firemoose827

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

I wanted to find out what everyones thoughts were on brotherhood in the fire service and maybe hear some memories of what a good strong brotherhood should be like.
Brotherhood to me is dead. I dont see it anymore and if it is claimed to be alive its fake and only for certain "Cliques" in the department; if you are not a member you dont exist.
The fire service should be a second family, which is why we call each other "brother" or "Sister", but you should MEAN what you say, and ACT as family and not just talk a big game.
When I was young and on Long Island with my father in my first department, I was constantly at the firehouse with him since I was in diapers. Most of the membership had actually changed my diapers or babysat for me or picked me up from school once when my dad was hurt bad in a construction accident where he works and brought to the hospital to my mother who was already there. Then a bunch of them STAYED at the hospital until my dad was stable, running errands for my mom, getting my mom, brother and I food...It was a true family.
When I became a member upstate it was a different world. I was a member for 9 years when my 2 year old son passed away, and only 2 members; thats right, only TWO members came to my sons funeral. None of them came to the hospital when he was there, or to our house to see if we needed anything...it was not a family.
I am in department number 4 now, and the last department I will be in because we just got our first house. But the department has very little "brotherhood" and as a chief I am trying to change that. I am trying to get more department functions, and trying to get the members to call each other more and help each other more. But you can't force something or order something like brotherhood on your members, it needs to be genuine and from the heart and meant for the entire department, right down to that annoying guy who keeps irritating the hell out of you at drills and meetings.
Brotherhood...Does it still exist in your area?

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

I wanted to find out what everyones thoughts were on brotherhood in the fire service and maybe hear some memories of what a good strong brotherhood should be like.
Brotherhood to me is dead. I dont see it anymore and if it is claimed to be alive its fake and only for certain "Cliques" in the department; if you are not a member you dont exist.
The fire service should be a second family, which is why we call each other "brother" or "Sister", but you should MEAN what you say, and ACT as family and not just talk a big game.
When I was young and on Long Island with my father in my first department, I was constantly at the firehouse with him since I was in diapers. Most of the membership had actually changed my diapers or babysat for me or picked me up from school once when my dad was hurt bad in a construction accident where he works and brought to the hospital to my mother who was already there. Then a bunch of them STAYED at the hospital until my dad was stable, running errands for my mom, getting my mom, brother and I food...It was a true family.
When I became a member upstate it was a different world. I was a member for 9 years when my 2 year old son passed away, and only 2 members; thats right, only TWO members came to my sons funeral. None of them came to the hospital when he was there, or to our house to see if we needed anything...it was not a family.
I am in department number 4 now, and the last department I will be in because we just got our first house. But the department has very little "brotherhood" and as a chief I am trying to change that. I am trying to get more department functions, and trying to get the members to call each other more and help each other more. But you can't force something or order something like brotherhood on your members, it needs to be genuine and from the heart and meant for the entire department, right down to that annoying guy who keeps irritating the hell out of you at drills and meetings.
Brotherhood...Does it still exist in your area?

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

I will say that Brotherhood in the overall larger sense seems to be a little more intact. In this I mean that everyone shows outside firefighters the utmost respect, goes out of their way to show them things, advise them on where to eat or stay and otherwise recognize that we're all members of something different than the normal job. Is this truly Brotherhood or just a small piece therein? I say the latter. When you start to network with other fire service personnel from all over you can see that there is a little more to this than just having the same job in a different town. There are still many of us to call all other firefighters brother or sister and would be happy to invite them in to share a meal or go have a beer and share thoughts, ideas and stories about the job.
In a positive manner as you first asked, last week it was relayed to me that on another shift a Brother from away stopped in and was in the area for a funeral of a close family member, they were hosting a large contingent of family for the weekend and was looking for a place to get a horseshoe pit set up. One of our guys quickly gave up a set he had at home, sending them to his garage to retrieve what was need for as long as it was needed. Not a big deal, but at least a glimmer that someone had the idea to just help a Brother out, instead of sending to Walmart by the quickest route.
As I typed these two posts I noticed that I'd twice mis-typed Brotherhood as botherhood, maybe it was a sign of my dismay. I won't give up, and I hope many others won't either, we just have to find away to show the value in making the fire service more than just a job.

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

As everyone here knows, or should know, NFPA Standards are just that; standards. They are glorified recommendations that NFPA boards of specialists suggest we follow in our agencies. They are not requirements, but standards put together by a board of experts in the field and offered as suggestions of what we as fire departments should strive to follow. These standards are then taken and voted on and turned into state and local laws, if approved. BUT...If you fail to follow what a board of experts suggested resulting in a serious injury or death??? Courts will rip you apart for that as a chief, whether you are a volunteer or career chief.
That is the issue, you were one of the only ones to write them your concerns. What needs to happen is ALL of us need to write FASNY and our local government and the state requesting these changes as a whole body of concerned firefighters. I will be doing this soon myself so if anyone is interested in collaborating let me know, we can write a decent letter if we put many minds to the task.
I agree completely with the physical standards being the same as well. Too many firefighters are dropping with heart related and unknown medical causes during and after the response. How many times have we all read about LODD that happened at the station AFTER the call was over? Firefighters found in their bunks, or in the shower deceased?? We are dropping like flies because we are not physically fit, and it needs to change. Dont get me wrong, my nickname is moose for a reason; not because I am a muscle bound freak, but because I have a convenient shelf to put my plate at dinner time or my beer while watching football, and I need to loose it BIGTIME. I am a chief, and the message I am sending the members is the wrong one. If we had standards for physical fitness I would have worked hard to keep my post-high school physique I had after playing baseball; I was 195 pounds and in the best shape of my life...now the only shape I am in is round. We as volunteers need to have the same training and the same physical fitness standards as the career departments do, and as someone already said above, if we end up loosing people because of the increase in standards then they are the ones we did not need int he first place. Im all for change, and its needed.

I wanted to find out what everyones thoughts were on brotherhood in the fire service and maybe hear some memories of what a good strong brotherhood should be like.
Brotherhood to me is dead. I dont see it anymore and if it is claimed to be alive its fake and only for certain "Cliques" in the department; if you are not a member you dont exist.
The fire service should be a second family, which is why we call each other "brother" or "Sister", but you should MEAN what you say, and ACT as family and not just talk a big game.
When I was young and on Long Island with my father in my first department, I was constantly at the firehouse with him since I was in diapers. Most of the membership had actually changed my diapers or babysat for me or picked me up from school once when my dad was hurt bad in a construction accident where he works and brought to the hospital to my mother who was already there. Then a bunch of them STAYED at the hospital until my dad was stable, running errands for my mom, getting my mom, brother and I food...It was a true family.
When I became a member upstate it was a different world. I was a member for 9 years when my 2 year old son passed away, and only 2 members; thats right, only TWO members came to my sons funeral. None of them came to the hospital when he was there, or to our house to see if we needed anything...it was not a family.
I am in department number 4 now, and the last department I will be in because we just got our first house. But the department has very little "brotherhood" and as a chief I am trying to change that. I am trying to get more department functions, and trying to get the members to call each other more and help each other more. But you can't force something or order something like brotherhood on your members, it needs to be genuine and from the heart and meant for the entire department, right down to that annoying guy who keeps irritating the hell out of you at drills and meetings.
Brotherhood...Does it still exist in your area?

I fear Brotherhood has lost out to technology. The ability to have one's personal life literally at ones fingertips 24/7/365 ensures that is the priority 24/7/365. The camaraderie , Brotherhood and sense of family I found as a proby is lost since gone, taken one small step at a time, though in pretty short order.
When I started at my career position we had two computers used for entering basic NFIRs reports and typing official letters. We arrived at work at least a half an hour before the shift to ensure the off going guys didn't get stuck on a BS run that would mess up their plans. We all gathered at the dayroom table to discuss any pertinent FD issues that arose in the past 48 hours, and then typically drifted to anything of interest we'd done, heard or seen in the same time period. We knew each other on a personal level. We were allowed one phone call home in the evening not to exceed 10 minutes (we had but 1 business line). You'd call home say good night and unless it was an emergency, hope that you didn't get a call from outside. We all gathered at every "scheduled" break and ate meals together. Strangely 15-18 years ago we rarely shared a meal as one, we merely ate our own things at the same table at the same time. That changed almost as a reaction to the loss of time together a few ears after I started. Nonetheless we all, had nothing better to do than keep each other entertained. We constantly played practical jokes on each other, frequently gather to smoke on the bay floor (designated area at that time, when we not as health conscious). We'd practically beg our Chief to regale us with stories of jobs and his war experiences (best story teller ever!). We'd watch the same TV at night and for the morning news. We were tight. Every shift was tight and due to stricter staffing rules we had to swap more often so we had reason to be tight with other guys too. When we came to work, we left everything else at home, very little from home affected us unless it was a personal issue that had an affect on a guys' focus (impending divorce, financial crisis, death in the family) the day to day stuff had to wait until the next day, period.
Of the past 15 years we first started to get better computers, which at first only allowed games, so we started to lose a few people to video games once in a while, but for the most part it was unnoticeable. Then came the internet, and that's when we started to lose guys for hours, sometimes whole tours we'd only share time on calls or community work. Maybe here's where we started to do the communal evening meal that at least brought all shift members to the same table for an hour or so. Then we seemed to find the end of the internet and people grew bored with it. It became a nice tool, but less exciting unless looking for something specific.
Somewhere along the way, cellphones became smaller and mainstream and suddenly guys were hiding on the floor at night arguing with the wife or other people. Our home lives came to the station. Suddenly, all the day to day issues, were confronting guys while they were at work. We struggled to keep up with the changing technology with rules that tried to at least ensure actual work was unaffected, but alas, that didn't work, changes were far too rapid. Requests for emergency time off for this and that increased, personnel were often scattered to the far ends of the building quietly dealing with their home/life issues instead of watching TV, sharing stories or otherwise congregating together.
And today all the technologies collide to nearly obliterate anyone's sense that they can come to work to get away from everything else. Facebook has inserted people back into to each other lives, but on a far less personal level. People know things about each other but given they can read this and get the info indirectly they have ample opportunity to express their true views without the person being able to explain or defend themselves. Now we see far more snickering and back stabbing amongst "brothers". Many Facebook users see the guys/girls spouses opinions and actions and suddenly have their opinion on that, something that used to be somewhat off limits. Smartphones ensure all of this takes place wherever/whenever the member is. Our crews still meet at the dayroom table in the morning and share information, as soon as FD interests are gone, it generally devolves to "did you see what, so and so posted?" or "if I was married to that .....I'd ....". Most mornings there's 8-12 people sitting around, but only 2 or 3 are talking and the rest have their faces buried in the smartphones. Firefighters are far less likely to come in early for another, instead coming in at literally the last minute, still chatting away to whomever was more important at 0658 in the morning.
We still eat the evening meal together but typically it's pretty quiet as one or two people text their way through dinner. We had to make a rule that talking on personal phones was done outside the dayroom otherwise you could watch TV or remotely converse. Yep, a rule that addresses common courtesy. Still in the evening those who have gravitated back to the dayroom to watch TV, now do so with an Ipad on their lap and constantly are convinced the rest of us need to see whatever stupid thing was sent to them or posted on a Facebook page, totally oblivious that others might actually not care.
Sorry, Moose, this wasn't a positive story of Brotherhood. Maybe I'm "old" or just don't find myself interesting enough to Tweet or be on Facebook, and while I think we the Brothers and Sisters allowed this to happen, it's technology that killed Brotherhood. While this is what I see from the career side, I imagine that on the volunteer/call side, the technology has become a time drain that hurts volunteerism, as people spend far more time using the web media to stay up on all things that used to be none of their business. The hardest part is that I now realize how much I miss the more personal interaction with those I work with and the job is becoming much more of a job. I used to want to go to work, now I'm ambivalent, I'd likely take far more time off if other duties wouldn't just pile up on my desk. I find myself looking for projects to reinvigorate my attitude, and this is a common feeling among many of members with 10-12 year or more on the job.

I think Firemoose827 it's because of the World we now live in where like many have said you can't offend anyone anymore and have to constantly be "politically correct" for fear of being sued and labeled a racist. Tradition in the F/S is practically dead which is sad. Like one member posted in the other forum also, everyone now receives a trophy and as a result can not accept failure and to be told their no good at something and if they are will head right to the powers to be to complain. This all trickles down to the moral on the job where nobody wants to participate in anything anymore. Another big reason why I see the Brotherhood disappearing is because of the quality of individuals Depts. are hiring. Depts. now seem to be more concerned with "Quantity" then "Quality" for fear again of being labeled racist/biased towards certain individuals and groups and have lowered their "STANDARDS" to attract these individuals. As a result those members who are 100% dedicated towards their Profession get discouraged having to work with these incompetent individuals who for the most part are just there for a paycheck and don't want to associate with them either on or off the Job, especially when these individuals don't get reprimanded for their unacceptable actions/mistakes on and off the Job but almost seem to be rewarded and left alone. After awhile it gets discouraging to those who really do care and try and do the" right" thing and as a result everyone is out for themselves and the "Brotherhood" is now in the toilet. JMO

I've been out of the fire service for 18 years now and I know things have changed a lot, but I am from the generation of firefighter that considered each other brothers and now sisters too. When I see someone I don't know wearing a FD shirt, I still will call him brother. When I see an officer even those that are good friends or even relatives I always address them the first time we speak by their rank. I think it's a sign of respect. I remember when just being a member of a fire department brought you a certain amount of respect. I do agree that socializing with members of your department helps to bring members together and make it more of a brotherhood. I wish all my brothers and sisters much success and hope everyone stays safe.

I wanted to find out what everyones thoughts were on brotherhood in the fire service and maybe hear some memories of what a good strong brotherhood should be like.
Brotherhood to me is dead. I dont see it anymore and if it is claimed to be alive its fake and only for certain "Cliques" in the department; if you are not a member you dont exist.
The fire service should be a second family, which is why we call each other "brother" or "Sister", but you should MEAN what you say, and ACT as family and not just talk a big game.
When I was young and on Long Island with my father in my first department, I was constantly at the firehouse with him since I was in diapers. Most of the membership had actually changed my diapers or babysat for me or picked me up from school once when my dad was hurt bad in a construction accident where he works and brought to the hospital to my mother who was already there. Then a bunch of them STAYED at the hospital until my dad was stable, running errands for my mom, getting my mom, brother and I food...It was a true family.
When I became a member upstate it was a different world. I was a member for 9 years when my 2 year old son passed away, and only 2 members; thats right, only TWO members came to my sons funeral. None of them came to the hospital when he was there, or to our house to see if we needed anything...it was not a family.
I am in department number 4 now, and the last department I will be in because we just got our first house. But the department has very little "brotherhood" and as a chief I am trying to change that. I am trying to get more department functions, and trying to get the members to call each other more and help each other more. But you can't force something or order something like brotherhood on your members, it needs to be genuine and from the heart and meant for the entire department, right down to that annoying guy who keeps irritating the hell out of you at drills and meetings.
Brotherhood...Does it still exist in your area?

I wanted to find out what everyones thoughts were on brotherhood in the fire service and maybe hear some memories of what a good strong brotherhood should be like.
Brotherhood to me is dead. I dont see it anymore and if it is claimed to be alive its fake and only for certain "Cliques" in the department; if you are not a member you dont exist.
The fire service should be a second family, which is why we call each other "brother" or "Sister", but you should MEAN what you say, and ACT as family and not just talk a big game.
When I was young and on Long Island with my father in my first department, I was constantly at the firehouse with him since I was in diapers. Most of the membership had actually changed my diapers or babysat for me or picked me up from school once when my dad was hurt bad in a construction accident where he works and brought to the hospital to my mother who was already there. Then a bunch of them STAYED at the hospital until my dad was stable, running errands for my mom, getting my mom, brother and I food...It was a true family.
When I became a member upstate it was a different world. I was a member for 9 years when my 2 year old son passed away, and only 2 members; thats right, only TWO members came to my sons funeral. None of them came to the hospital when he was there, or to our house to see if we needed anything...it was not a family.
I am in department number 4 now, and the last department I will be in because we just got our first house. But the department has very little "brotherhood" and as a chief I am trying to change that. I am trying to get more department functions, and trying to get the members to call each other more and help each other more. But you can't force something or order something like brotherhood on your members, it needs to be genuine and from the heart and meant for the entire department, right down to that annoying guy who keeps irritating the hell out of you at drills and meetings.
Brotherhood...Does it still exist in your area?

100% correct, and this is also why our new called "Senior Men" are not the "Senior Men" of 20 + yrs ago. Many are just as lazy and don't lead by example anymore or take the bull by the horns and pass their bad habits onto the Junior men and encourage them to do the same. "Tradition" in the Fire Service is becoming a thing of the past unfortunately. The Job has become nothing more then a paycheck!

Just another paid position on a rotten fish. Being paid is not always the answer. How about every volunteer on this board, or better yet in this area write a letter and make a copies. Send one to FASNY, and the others to your elected officials demanding the same training as our paid counterparts. Professional firefighter training (and yearly refresher training) is written into law, remove the professional (paid) label so that firefighter training for both volunteer and paid is the same. The state will have find additional funding in the budget to accomplish this. FASNY would also have to be persuaded to support this. I think a lot of the problems we see in this area would improve. Might put a dent in some of the recruitment efforts, but maybe the ones who complain about training are not the people we want joining.

I know many Career Chiefs that have gotten that position because they were the "popular guy" or the only one who "volunteered" for the Job! How about raising the 'bar" to get accepted and meet some specific standards and not worry as much about 'quotas" and offending certain groups! Let's begin moving forward in this manner by hiring the most qualified to be able to actually carry out that "Oath" we recite! Whatta ya say?

I think the only result of this would be seeing a lot of bald fire chiefs walking around with bruises on their heads. That's after they're done tearing out all of their hair and smashing their heads against the wall trying to get guys to change their routines, attitudes, and methods. A paid chief cannot accomplish anything just by having that as his full time job, not until there is a set standard for everyone established by the state that he can point to and say, look, you HAVE to do this, you are REQUIRED to do this. Unless you think a whole department of guys is going to start listening to a guy all of a sudden because, hey, he's paid and he said so. If you think that will happen, I have a bridge to sell you too.

I think a physical agility test for volunteers as well as an equal training standard for both career and volunteer firefighters should be the first step in thinking forward!!!
Domenick

I thought for sure this one would have been brought up already and was shocked to see it not mentioned;
I loved the one where the woman called 911 because they got her order wrong at the drive through and she kept arguing with the dispatcher that it's wrong they couldnt get her order right and she is a busy mother who needed to get dinner for her kids while on their way to soccer and they got the order wrong and she wants a police officer to take a report and the dispatcher actually got mad and told her 911 is for emergencies, she isnt going to send a unit over because her burgers were wrong...classic call that I thought everyone would remember!! The woman refused to enter the restaurant to complain and get another burger to replace it but she would sit in the parking lot on the phone with 911 for an hour trying to get PD to respond and "Issue Justice" for her burgers...LOL

Follow the KISS method. Age, Sex, Nature, Obvious injuries or complaints, brief v/s and GS score for trauma patients and interventions in place e.g. O2, immobilized, etc. These basics should give enough of a picture for the ER to prepare. If they need anymore after this they will ask. You can always CYA by ending with "Do you require any further?"