Bnechis

Its actually bad from a budget standpoint, you can hire an qualified person and not hyave to pay retirement, health an other benefits, since they are already paid for.

Important idiots...

Just because you would have rigs coming a greater distance doe not mean it would not work. If it really i a fire you tend to need them anyway and if the closest house can get 2 rig out, they can turn the other around if not needed. Since those 3 depts are not staffed ISO want 36 firefighter +1 IC (plus water supply personnel) on every firecall, can any of them do that on most calls, if not this would help

1) This study only did a cursory look at the overall financials (which look do able), the charge we had was meeting minimum standards. It was determined that the next step would do a detailed look at the financials including costs and tax issues. 2) Having read all the contract and budgets, pay is a lot closer than most would believe. The big difference is the OT rate ranged from 0% to unlimitted.

The roll out is at 3pm. The study is 224 pages

What an amazing concept

That is assuming the VFD has a real budget to cut (many of the island have very minimal) and how many are willing to cut it. There was a time when every dept in Westchester was 100% volunteer, but in most cases thats long ago and unlikely to return. These 3 depts have slowly moved from vol to combo. The costs were negociated by the union and the district. THis is no different than Nassau & Suffolk PD's getting incredible pay after lots of negociating. Because there are no real requirements for them. We have depts. that allow you to have minimal training, exterior only, and respond to the fire house after the rigs go inservice all ok. none of this is fire protection. Also and more importantly the way it was sold. I would have very little problem if when the depts. push for it they said: "This is to reward our members for volunteering" but they told the taxpayers that this was for recruitment and retention and that if they did not vote for it there taxes would go up by millions as they would have to hire career ff's. I have asked many times (here and to the LOSAP services) if there is any proof that this actually increases the number of volunteers and no one has ever answered. The NYS Comptroller also asked the question, and he also released a report that claimed most of the funds were under funded when proposed (to convince voters it was cheaper than it really was) and that in 30 years every community was going to get hit with a big bill that they will have to pay even if the VFD no longer is there. Now I will ask again has any dept. with LOSAP seen a significant (you define that) increase in manpower (particularly of interior firefighters) since getting LOSAP, particularly one that lasts more than a year or two after it goes into effect. The state #'s as reported by OFPC indicate a 10% decline in the past 2-3 years. In one Westchester District non dept. members (friends of mine) were threatened about voting against LOSAP, It past and the dept 6 years later still can not cover an automatic alarm They were left alone because the volunteer depts are municipal (village) depts. and the law does not allow for consolidating them under this new legislation. The villages could be desolved cutting 6 police depts, 6 DPW's , and 6 villages administrations, but that would elliminate the town supervisors political base, so we cant go there. The village could also choise to get rid of the FD, but then the volunteers would get the village mayors/boards voted out. I have a number of questions about the financals and the biggest is that the FD cost more than the PD, so they claim that maybe the FD's should be cut. The Police chief has always complained that he is short about 80 officers. maybe if the town staffed its services properly then the FD would not be #2.

City's are not covered in this legislation. But hang on...the Gov. has a plan to cut the amount of money cities spend....this should help convince many that regionalization is the only way to survive. Its not allowed under current City Laws in NYS My understanding is the MVFD is limited to that number by city charter. It was written in the 1950's to protect the volunteers (which are now gone). To change it you will need to go to charter review, which no strong mayor will ever do, because he will lose power. It can be drimatically better because the elected officials are only responsible for fire (& often/sometimes EMS) the District sets a budget and the Communities Tax assesser collects the amount based on the current tax roll. The biggest district cover towns like Eastchester and a number on Long Island. There are no citys that are fire districts. The consolidation study of 10 depts in Westchester is completed and will be released to the public/press on July 1. This study looks at 10 departments, EFD, FFD, HFD, GFD, LFD, MVFD, NRFD, PFD, PMFD & SFD (the 10 career depts in southern Westchester) and the intent is how do we meet NFPA1710 (3&1 on every rig, engine in 4min or less, 1st alarm of 16 ffs [we did 22]). This answers all of the manpower issues we collectively have at a price that is competative to what we are paying now.

It takes very little time to search the net particularly if you know where to look.

Yes

You may not care about those things, but there are a lot of people fighting to get and keep them. No one has said that if you have sufficient manning in a VFD you should go paid. What is being said is why does everyone need to have multiple rigs and administraions and all the other things for every 1 square mile district. If you consider 60% are most likely EMS and another 20% (or more) are automatic alarms and then the assorted other calls, you are not left with a whole lot of fire that requires the level of spending that we are at. The public does not know. Actually the reason why the unions have a problem is these housemen do not get the protection that civil service affords, they do not get the pension, and they are not required to have the hire level of training that is mandated in General Municipal Law. The NYSPFFA has fought very hard to guarantee these protections. Also the reason that civil service laws were developed in NYS was to prevent the hiring based on nepotism, which is a major problem in the depts I have been to. But they are not IAFF "Firefighters" are they? The IAFF also represents Non-Fire EMS and DIspatchers, if it does not conflict with a firefighters local. So are these 2 depts hiring "housemen" or EMT's & Dispatchers? The politicians know that the volunteers will work together to throw them out if they do anything to upset the current system. Politicians are rarely on "your" side, they are looking out for themselves. I am sure you are correct that very few VFD's on L.I. will be affected, unless the economy continues to stay down......if 2 or 3 years from know we are no better off, lots of people in NY will be screeming to cut the cost of ALL gov. services.

Anytime Chief He did say "you keep hanging those curveballs and i'll keep slapping them over the left field wall fella" I never knew baseball could be so much fun..................."Beisbol been bery, bery good to me" - Chico Escuela (Garrett Morris SNL)

Since your dept is a PPC 3 that would mean at least 239 departments in NYS are equal or better than that. Yes its a top spot. But a 3 means you scored between 70% and 79% on an open book test. When I was in school that was a C or "average grade. With the number of members and houses and rigs and budget you have you have no excuse for that score.

Ok lets have the facts..... Your 2009 budget is $5,006,360 ( a lot of money to say its "Free"). From the offical Budget hearing notice from your department: NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the aforesaid budget will be presented to the residents and taxpayers of the xxxxxx Fire District and to the Board of Fire Commissioners of the xxxxxxx Fire District, for their respective consideration at this public hearing and for the purpose of considering the said budget and hearing all persons interested in the subject concerning same on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 commencing at 8:00 p.m. followed by the regular board meeting at 8:30 p.m. at the Fire District Building located at xxxxxx Avenue, xxxxxxxx, New York 00000. 30 minutes was scheduled for the community of 40,634 to spend 5 million. How many voters even knew about the hearings? In 2008 you had Estimated Revenues $60,000.00 and an Estimated Appropriated Unreserved Fund Balance $53.03. This was your surplus that was used to reduce the $5,006,360 2009 budget. $5,006,360 is not free and from your budget: 4. COMPENSATION PAID PERSONNEL $1,304,250 thats for 11 paid positions. Also from your website: Your Benefits As A Member: • Retirement System • Tax exemption for all homeowners • Optional membership to a fitness center to keep in condition • Being part of the largest family atmosphere imaginable • The feeling of making a difference in someone’s personal tragedy • Annual physical examinations • Training at no cost gaining valuable experience in emergency services Looks like free to me...... How many people actually vote in your district ellections? The NYS Comptrollers office estimates that most district have less than 2% of the registered voters actually vote. Its nice to hear you have not forgotten where you came from, after all it takes many years to get the experience needed to become a chief. Probie starting Feb. 17, 2000. Elected 2nd Lt. in 2003 Elected 1st Lt. in 2004 Elected Capt. in 2005 and again in 2006 And in 2009 Chief.....wow 9 years.

ISO wants a minimum of 36 firefighters and 1 IC on every fire call, when you do not run with manned fire stations. Part of that is to make up for the number that are not interior and part of thet is for the delay. If you only have 50 members I suspect you will have trouble getting 36+1 to every fire call.

The whole point of this thread is how to do it. You take the 10, 20, 30 or more departments and roll them into one then the non taxables do not over burden 1 small district and each station can concentrate on the core mission of being a station and not trying to cover every potential. When you have depts in westchester that have trouble getting 1 rig to a working fire with enough members to stretch a line, why do the taxpayers there need to own 3-4 engines, 2 ladders and a rescue? Why is it that the counties in Maryland, Virginia, Florida, California, etc. do it for less than here and with more resources at the incidents (I know we have more resources parked in the barn). I do not think you can find any career ff's who would argue that, the problem is what happens when it no longer works efficiently. What happens when they actually s[pend more money then the career dept. but still do not get out the door? And who pays when the insurance rating sucks? Who pays when 60 Control is toning out 3 & 4 depts to cover an ambulance call? Is it true that there are 1,200 paid "housemen" "working" on long island? I guess if the services were so efficient, they would not need this. Your right we should take you at your word, but, we have all read the state comptrollers reports and even if Newsday is stretching the truth (as the L.I. fire service claims) can they be 100% wrong? No one has said consolidation will help L.I. Fire Depts. The state has said it will help L.I. taxpayers. Maybe the fact that we are being taxed out of our communities has us realizing that NYS can not continue to be the highest taxed state in the country and Westchester cant continue to be the highest taxed county in NYS. Do you think that somehow money will fall out of the crooks that have been running that community will ever give the FD enough $$$. Would consolidation solve the problems there? Can you say Gordon Heights?

Thanks Mark. Your explination is only partially correct. Around 1901 the volunteers requested that the city provide help to maintain the stations, rigs and horses. During the mid 1920's the Chamber of Commerce (for others here: not the FD, not the Union which had not organized yet) determined that a career staff was cheaper than the volunteers (there were over 200 at the time) after calculating the insurance savings. The CoC pushed to make it happen. In 1927 the dept switched to a 100% career dept. the volunteers got to keep the social functions, but stopped going on calls. Note: All but one (the chief, they hired one from FDNY) of the career FF's that they hired in 1927 came from the VFD.

Not in that post, my point was how many rigs are needed and I was answering that issue. If you want me to add those costs in I'll be more than happy to compare head to head the "total" cost of fire protection, including insurance costs.

Our citizens seem very happy with us, they keep calling 9,000 a year. I will be "fair" as you put it, when everyone else is. I have in the past listed what our tax roll is and how much goes to support the FD. and what the total cost of fire protection is. When you include, insurance and code enforcment our citizens pay less each year than many in communities with VFD's. and I have posted those figures before. Even after paying personnel costs our FD costs the average property owner less than $400 per year. I am very aware of the facts and I have no problem with volunteers, I have a big problem with depts that claim to protect the community when they clearly can't or when they claim they save the community money when they are not.

So you are a #1 or a #2? The unions do not have to do anything, the volunteer service appears to be collapsing without any effort by the unions. Can you back that up with facts or is that just your opinion? Seems to me it works very well in most of the counties and even countries that went down that road.

town of Cortlandt Population in July 2007: 40,226 Land area: 39.7 square miles. Population density: 1014 people per square mile 22 Engines @$500,000 (equipped) = $11 million $273 per person to pay for the engines 1 engine per 1,828 people City of New Rochelle Population in July 2007: 73,260 Land area: 10.4 square miles. Population density: 7078 people per square mile 7 Engines (2 spares) @$500,000 (equipped) = $3.5 million $47.75 per person to pay for the engines 1 engine per 10,466 And we are in a study to consolidate and reduce the numbers.

And they have the only lawyers that can land a Tomcat on the pitching deck of a flat top......

About a month ago

Its primary coverage zone is the Northern end. The City administration wanted it at Sta. #5. But the call volume does not warrent it, so it was moved to Quaker Ridge Road. The majority of its calls are south of Station 3 with a high % south of I-95. THe unit runs from 7am to 7pm, 7 days.

Its not OSHA SARA/Superfund its EPA Sara title III / Superfund and the law requires that all spillers pay ALL costs associated with the spilling of "their" property. They law says that the owner of the chemical is responsible for it from craddle to grave. We have been very sucsessful in billing under this. a very small spill will generate a $7,000 - $12,000 bill. A few years ago Getty oil spilled 6,000 gallons (approx) of gasoline on main street. We billed them about $86,000 they initially said they would pay only $8,000. We told them we would see them in court and would add all legal cost to the bill. They ended up paying 90% and we accepted to avoid a long drawn out court battle. Its the 1st time we had to fight for it, most times we get a check within a week.