Bnechis

Remove the fish parts, clams and other life from the screen

Call 911....I've fallen and can't get up................ROFLMAO Tide is something those of us on the coast get, every 6 hours the sound fills or empty's, regardless of what the FD does. and those who don't deal with it often, forget that from school days.

You have to also watch the water level in your static source. During a fire in 1984 on premium point, NRFD was drafting out of Long Island Sound and we dropped the water level down 8 -10' and loss the source. It took 6 hours for the water level to come back up. Amazing that one pumper can pump that much water that it drop's the water level of LIS We now have an acroynm for this: T.I.D.E.

in NYS municipal FD's may charge. Fire Districts may not charge. The NYS Assoc of Fire Districts has been trying to change this for 15 years. The state legislature never goes for it. It means the local property owners (read - taxpayers) pay for all service instead of the people who use it.

Lets look at ths one a little different. In the early 1980's MVFD's union kept complaining they did not have enough manpower and needed more. MV's Mayor (may have been Blackwood at the time) kept saying they had plenty. Look at the Daily Argus (MV paper owned by gannet) and every fire scene showed dozens of firefighters infront of the building. The union complained for years that except for the 1 or 2 MPO's the rest were volunteers and they were not inside fighting the fire. The mayor never was moved by this argument. Now I knew a handful of volunteers in MV that were interior but I saw a lot standing outside (I worked on MV Amb 1) at the time. The union finally convinced the city to provide new "safer" helmets to the volunteers, these helmets were yellow (not black) and it became more obvious that there were lots of yellow helmets outside. Shortly after that is when the numbers of volunteers drop off drimatically. THe city never made up the numbers. You are assuming that the only cost to fire protection is the cost you've listed above. The cost of fire protection includes: Municipal water system is #1 Construction (including fire protection systems) is #2 Insurance is #3 FD Budget comes next. and while career depts. cost more, they may reduce #3 more than the cost of the FD bill. Let us not forget VFD's cost $ as well. some (not many) spending more than career depts. I live in my 100% career district. (it went 100% paid in 1927 after the Chamber of Commerce potitioned the City that it would be cheaper than the VFD. And they switch within 1 year. I own my home and pay taxes. My portion for the schools is over $5,000 but my cost for the FD is $176 per year. Thats for a 100% career dept. with an ISO PPC of 2. If we had an ISO PPC of 9 (which 40% of the FD's in NYS have) my home owners insurance would go up by about $750. So $176 is a bargan. If we added the additional manpower to fully meet NFPA 1710 my tax would go up by about $35/yr. Our ISO rate would go to PPC 1 (but in NYS private homeowners dont get credit for this improvement) but 1,000's of busnisess and multiple dwellings would get an additional 8% insurance reduction. Yes its difficult to find the time but the better safety standards include more training! You want bailout ropes....the standard requires initial and annual training. The law has required those bottles since the the late 1970's and was reissued and directed to all FD's in NYS on Jan 8 1998. 10 years ago the law required this. The most important safety issue is training!!!! I remember when MV, NR, Yonkers, Eastchester and other FF's marched on MV City hall and it did nothing. The Mayors (In the past, I do not know this one) could care less about the FF's in MV or in Westchester, They only care about the VOTERS who support them. THe media noticed, but again, made no difference. Since we should not be making this a paid vs. vol issue. Right after we march on MV City Hall we should go to every community in Westchester and march on City hall or the fire dist. meeting and protest if they don't have enough manning or cant get a rig on the road.

If you want Youtube: You know shooting skeet..........."PULL-------Bang" Get a Bridger Line Gun (we have on R-4) "Bang-------PULL" Shoot the line gun at the worker, when the brass rod sticks in him....pull the line and presto.....your on youtube......

Since the lift is stuck but not falling its holding his weight when you come down to it add an anchor sling on it and add a tandum tripple wrap prusik to the main line to take the extra weight of 2 members. Lots of other ways to do this one. All based on the same concepts.

This should be a major RED flag. How do you explain this to the taxpayers? The XYZ FD need $600,000 to $999,999 to buy a new ladder because the old one is __________ (fill in the reason). The XYZ FD spends months going thru the process of spec, bid, approval, pre-con, building, fitting out, training, etc. The XYZ FD can't put this truck that we told the community we needed (1-3 years ago) in service because we do not have enough drivers?

Well the bill is the state budget bill. So it would not be a suprise if the state decided not to have a budget this year.... Only 8 days till the state deadline....................and counting

Thank You Before I can answer I need more info. Is this dept a municipal village dept., a fire protection district (ind. company that contracts with the village) or a fire district?

I am for merging if it provides better fire protection and/or can save $$$ without reducing the level of protection. I am against being forced into it by Albany. If the town does not want it, it may be worst than what we have now. Depts need to do this because it is the best way to proceed.

This is what the State is proposing. To change the law. Its not the 1st Time and it wont be the last unless it passes. The state is also interested in a Calf. version of proposition 13 or Mass prop 2 1/2. As a way to "control" property tax increases. The public thinks this will solve the high property taxes. If you look at both CA & MA you will see it has forced merging depts in CA (Lots of County "Authorities") and 1 & 2 man rigs in MA. When that goes thru in NY (and it will go thru maybe nt this year, but its coming) it will hurt every FD that does not reorganize. New Rochelle was the only municipality in NYS to experience this (mandated by the state for 14 years) and every year we saw cuts in city services and delays in capital projects (new rigs, repairing stations, etc.)

Yep The 4 city's have an appointed (not elected board) "commissioner" they use the term, but they serve in a diffent role. Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, White Plains, Yonkers. But as cities they are not affected by this law. Also Larchmont, Scarsdale and the Pelham's dont they answer to the village board Basically. This is much broader than Westchester 2000. In Great Britton they had over 500 depts prior to WWII. They consolidated for the war. And stayed that way. Now they run about 50 depts to cover England, Scotland & Wales. Wow we should have done this under Westchester 1945 and then we would not have to deal with it now.

Based on what I've been reading here the 3 reasons that are available are: 1) Being NFPA compliant 2) Height Restrictions 3) Cost savings Any other reasons?

Well put kevin. The only other issue is sometimes it makes more sense to send the rig out to non fire services (even if you have inhouse mechanics. We do this for tires, suspension other "truck" components. We find it faster and cost effective to go to the local truck shop for tires, etc. Great to pull in watch them throw it on a lift, have 5 guys start replacing tires and be done before you can finish your coffee. Anyone who needs assitance should contact RFS. Kevin does a 1st rate job. Kevin make the check payable to bnechis promtional services inc..................LOL

In general no. The state wants to eliminate as many levels of government as it can. One way to do it is to get rid of "districts" (fire, school, sewer, water, etc.). It may still cause downsizing, (particularly in towns with multiple districts, ie. 4 fire districts in a town that each have a tower ladder may only need 2 if its 1 dept., saving $2M in replacement cost). Other downsizing/savings is if town has an in-house attorney (corp. counsel) and each district also retains one, maybe they inhouse can double up and reduce the cost. Same for maintenance, IT, accounting, and other services.

Do any of the contracted companies that use local taxes have career ff's? Most, if any do not have career ff's. If the state disolves them all the equipment and stations which was bought with taxmoney or public donations will sit idol unless they donate them back to the public that paid for it in the 1st place. THis would also result in increased tax to duplicate equipment that already exists but is sitting idol. So for the most part since fire protection districts do not have career ff's you stated this is now a career volly thread, when for this example its a private company with vol vs. the best interest of the taxpayers, regardless of weather they continue to use vol. ff's. Actually what turns it into a career / volly thread is this: "I did a word search at the above link for "Fire" and came across an interesting proposed bill. Bill numbers A6547/S9105 would amend the Insurance Law to provide five percent of the fire insurance premium taxes (two percent fund?) to be paid to the treasurer of the NYS Professional Firefighters Association. The amount paid to FASNY for the support of the Firemen's Home in Hudson, NY would decrease to five percent from the current ten percent." The NYSPFFA has been fighting FASNY for years on this. The law requires "all members who provide fire protection recieve equal benefits" but FASNY has been getting millions ($7 million last year) towards the "home" and NYSPFFA has recieved $0. What happened to "equal benefits"?

I dont know what it costs to put a lift on the ambulance (most Neonate units have them) but I just spec'ed the top of the line lift for a dept. pick up and it cost $3,500 installed. I agree you should be able to lift or get out. But it also makes no sense to have to lift the over 300 crowd. If this reduces injuries it saves the agency $$$.

Its amazing to me that FASNY continues to publish its $7 billion lie. The FASNY estimated that volunteer fire departments in NYS provide annual cost savings of $7.1 billion, was comprised of $2.8 billion in annual operating costs of paid departments to replace volunteers and $4.3 billion in the total cost for structures and equipment. a) FASNY assumes that the $4.3 billion for apparatus and stations will need total replacement. In other words all of the vol. rigs and stations would sit empty and all new stations and rigs would be purchased and built to replace them. This is beyond logic. So instead of $7 Billion. We are now talking $2.8 billion (wow I just saved the taxpayers of NYS $4.2 Billion) The annual cost savings of $2.8 billion is driven largely by the wages and benefits presumed to be paid to what FASNY estimates is an additional 38,537 career firefighters. This amount is only as accurate as the estimate of the number of additional paid firefighters that would be required to replace volunteers. FASNY's study admits that if the "Delaware Approach" were applied to NYS, the result would be an additional 20,900 paid firefighters needed in NYS in areas currently covered by volunteers. The "Delaware Approach" is over $1 billion less then FASNY's original estimate. If the "Pennsylvania Approach" were applied to NYS an additional 17,050 career firefighters would be needed. This approach reduces FASNY's annual $2.2 billion estimate to $973 million. So FASNY's $7 Billion is actually $973 million. The $973 million is based on 17,050 additional career ff's. But ISO calculations require only 1 career for every 3 volunteers so the number may actually be 12,846. This figure does not take into account that the volunteer fire service has a budget that would be used to cover some of this cost. It assumes that what ever money is currently spent for volunteer benefits including 2% funds would not be available to reduce the $973 million. An additional cost thatis not considered is the salary that is paid to "housemen" (1,800 housemen just on Long Island) this money could go toward reducing the $973 million. Currently $319 million in tax money is spent supporting the volunteer depts on Long Island alone. FASNY's study admits that its study does not consider that current tax dollars are used to support many if not most VFD's in NYS. FASNY also does not take into account that ISO ratings would improve in many parts of the state thus saving property owners $100's of millions. FASNY's proudly states VFD's save NYS taxpayers $7 Billion, when its under $654 million (reduce this number by the 2% funds and the Fire Tax in NYS north of NYC). Then add the property insurance savings and it maybe more expensive to have VFD's than a series of multi county career based fire depts. Note: I am not suggesting getting rid of VFD's................just that FASNY needs to stop the argument that VFD's save $$.

Another way to perform the rescue and get your dept on the cover of fire house mag........Airbags under the right side of the lift. When the bucket hits the ground remove the crushed worker. Total time 3 min. But chief I know it will work

Chances are that you can get on the roof (the high parapet is hiding the HVAC & cooling towers). Use a folding ladder or Little Giant ladder to get to the parapet, set an anchor on the roof (Use the base frame of the HVAC). Rappel down using a 6 bar rack and do a pick-off (my preferance is to use a short haul system - as developed for doing mid air line transfer). The worker is already wearing a class III harness so its pretty easy to hook up. If properly trained this can be done in about 30-45 minutes. My only concern is the construction of the wall....might consider a secondary anchor by using the lift prior to adding the extra load.

Unless the retone is requesting additional equipment,it is not a second alarm. The retone is to update members and in many cases to get members out of bed, to leave work, etc.

The one thing I did not like about 3/4 boots & long coat is when you were crawling around a very critical piece of "equipment" was only cover with a pair of duty pants. Always supprised me that BFD took so much longer to go to bunker pants, particularly for winter work....brrr I remember many night when the tillerman looked very cold as they pulled up to the dorm across the street from mine (every night x2 or 3).

DC has one additional problem, that is beyond the rest of us........... Most city's budgets must be approved by a city council...........but, DC's actually has to be approved by Congress, and last I heard the majority of the committee do not live in the district and dont get elected by the district, so "saving $$$" looks good to the voters that they answer to.

I have some issues with how this thread has defined or not defined "swift water" After years of coastal and blue water (ocean) sailing as well as water rescue training I would not consider the Hudson River, The Potomic River, Long Island Sound or the Atlantic Ocean to be "swift water". Do they have areas that move swiftly...yes (and its fun going thru Hell Gate on the East River in NYC which I've done in a "gumby suit with NYPD Harbor and SCUBA Units or doing inwater patient packaging at Cape Disapointment). The Hudson River's spead is measured in Knots and in the lower section changes direction every 6 hours with the tide change. Swift water is measured by calculating in feet per second or in cubic feet per second. If the USCG with a gumby suit can jump into 6-8 knots at Woods Hole or cape disapointment or any Ocean then a trained rescuer can go into the (icy) hudson river when its doing 3 knots. True "swift water" i.e. rapids will get you killed in a gumby or ice rescue suit.