16fire5

A, B, and C refer to staffing levels. Companies are catagorized in Groups 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Group 1

Ladders, Rescues, Squads, Haz Tech Engines

Always start the tour with 5 FF

Group 2

49 engine companies that start the tour with 5FF but are reduced when ML is up.

Group 3

The 11 engine companies that keep the 5th FF even when ML is over 7.5%

Group 4

The engines not in group 2 or 3.

Group 5

Marine Companies and HMC 1.

When staffing is Level C every engine has 4 FF and that is what is slated to begin the first week of Feb.

A, B, and C companies is what companies where catagorized by during the rotation.

Date: 1-24-11

Time: ~9:00

Location: 110 Orchard Terrace

Units Operating: Monroe (Monroe, Harriman, Lakeside), M/A Woodbury, Tuxedo, Chester (2 Tankers to scene and engine to the fill site)

Relocations: Goshen truck to Monroe, Kiryas Joel Rescue to Monroe, Greenwood Lake Engine to Lakeside, South Blooming Grove Engine to Monroe, Cornwall Engine to Woodbury (Highland Mills)

Weather Conditions: Extremely Cold

Description Of Incident: 3rd Alarm Fire Monroe

Additional relocators responded to a reporter dryer fire and automatic alarm in the first half hour of the incident.

Birds are chirping about a class of probies comprised of 100% EMS promos.

I think the birds you overheard are nothing more than rumors.

There is zero difference between the rules applying to the open and the promotional. The only advantage to the promotional was it is a substantially shorter list and was burned through much faster.

The advantage is huge due to the promotional nature the city is able to hire the entire list prior to those that are on the open list. This equates to someone on the promotional list with a 70 being hired before the 100s on the open list. Also prior to switching to the CPAT you could fail 2 stations on the agility and still have a technically passing grade. While this was the case for the open exam few if any canidates were ever hired from the open exam that did not have a 100 on the physical. In my opinion it should have been pass/fail and failure of any of the stations should have resulted in disqualifications.

I wish them luck. It is definatly needed but I really think the public is too stupid to get the point. They feel the need to leave their apartments on floors above the fire and walk down through the smoke and subject their kids to it. I time after time would tell them to go back into their apartments but they couldn't get it through their skulls. I really believe that it had something to do with 9/11 after those buildings fell the think their's will too.

Like FDNY Rescue 3 we are also the citywide collapse rescue unit.

They now have collapse rescue units in all 5 boroughs so R3 is no longer citywide in the collapse matrix. So to clarify you might be the only citwide collaspe unit in southern NY.

http://www.firefight...y/newsid/126293

Given this recent incident in LA, I sure hope they were worried about the contents of that tank.

Attached is the report on the injured FD captain in LA.

Excellent info had not seen that yet. Couple of thoughts why does LA dispatch a single engine to a car fire? I can think of dozzens of reasons to back them up with a truck or second engine. Magnesium is not uncommon in stering columms. Suprising how many attack it with the wrong approach. I witnessed a firefighter attempt to put it out with a purple K at close range. Luckly the firefighter had full PPE and SCBA and was not injured. It's best to use lots of water and use the reach of the stream from a good distance ~50' to achive good knockdown.

A rock? A BFR or a SFR? ( A "Big F'ing Rock" or a "Small F'ing Rock") Which pocket is that carried in? In a smoke filled room, what are your chances of actually hitting the glass? With thermalpane windows (that haligans bounce off of sometimes) how big of a rock will be needed to actually break the glass? Who carries the BFR/SFR? The nozzleman? The Officer? Are the rocks department issue or do the members have to acquire their own BFR/SFR? (At least they could write that off on taxes!) Let's assume that you are inside the fire apartment, deploy your BFR, successfully vent the window, but your BFR sails through the air striking an old lady or cop in the street. Are you and the city liable for the injuries sustained by the actions of the rapid deployment of your BFR? I wonder why FF's of yesteryear actually took time to develope the responsibilities of the outside vent position when all they had to do was throw rocks to get the job done?

Atleast we only throw the can out the window once in our career.

It's obvious from the posts that there are different feelings out there on ventilation. There are very few if any always and nevers in the fire service. For a laundry list of reasons vertical ventilation early is real good. Now the always above the fire is nice but there are times when it's not doable like when it's sagging under your boots.

Now for the coordination of horizontal ventilation we allow the 1st truck officer to coordinate/control. I see a few benifits to this and for the most part has and does work very well for us. First it eliminates the IC as a middle man in the conversation between inside and outside. Most importantly the 1st ladder company officer is in the apartment and knows conditions best i.e. heat, fire location, life hazard, ect. One thing is for sure fires reach flashover much faster than they did before so the stakes are higher. Generally I hold off taking the rest of the windows in the apartment until the water is there. But that is a general statement I think ventilation is one of the hardest things to fully grasp and experience is key. It's a topic in the fire service that would be real hard to teach from a book. There are times when I would vent additional windows besides the fire room but it would be for a victim I was looking for and it would be a calculated risk. Lets face it if we are told a victim is a certin room and it is next to the fire, VESing it in an attempt to save a life is in my book a good move but risky. As the chief brought up fire duty is way down so the only way to learn is pay attention at every fire you go to. Regardless of you position find out from the OV what they did and how it worked.

Also in refernece to the fire that started this thread it's quite apparant that there was an understaffed first alarm which probably left jobs undone in a timely manner.

I think that Fireman transfering to these "busy depts" deal more with the work that they get, ie I know people who have transfered to Hartsdale and Greenville because they are looking to be more then a Driver. I think depts like Hartsdale, Greenville, Eastchester, Fairview, and Scarsdale attract transfers because they are actually doing the day to day operations as oppsose to "just" driving. If you look at a Depts like Mohegan, Town of Mamaroneck, and Peekskill, most of the time the Firefighter is driving and operating the truck, an important job, but I think most fireman, especualy younger guys would rather be streaching lines, searching, or just investigating the Auto Alarm. Maybe it's just me, I would take any Career Job in a heart beat, but I would perfer to go someplace where I was a rider, not just a driver. Any thoughts, I am always looking for input.

While this may be a factor you are ignoring the biggest factor. Economics. Also I'm sure the career firefighters you are refering to are seeing a lot more action than you think.

How about L44? Ya think they'd like they're rig back one of these days. They've had a dog-s%#t spare EVERY time I've been detailed there. It'd be nice if the job had a decent rig for those guys, seeing as they've had their regular rig for several months.

Atleast they all have enclosed cabs now which except for the CO meter going off is nicer in this weather.

John, you bring up a very important point and perfect expansion of the topic. As most of us are aware, in the FDNY, the IC is required to provide the dispatch center with regular progress reports. It's not uncommon to hear the city dispatcher calling the IC, or in many cases on multi-alarm incidents the MCP stating, " a progress report is due."

This is extremely important. The disptacher reminds the IC or MCP of the duration of the incident or fire. We all know how important this information is with regard to an interior attack, and how long structural components can reasonably be expected to last. In other words, the longer the duration, and with the regular updates being called for and required, it's a constant reminder to the IC as to how long the troops have been operating interior, and serves as a reminder as to when the "safe point" is passing for keeping the members within the structure, or gauging the time they should be pulled out, and exterior operations commenced.

I see absolutely no reason why 60-Control cannot enact a system and require Incident Commanders to provide those progress reports, and Control can be providing the IC with those regular reminders as to the length of time members have been inside, and length of uncontrolled burn time.

This is an item that 60-Control can be pro-active with. they can make it their policy that "this is the way it's going to be." That would require every department using 60-Control for dispatch to get on board. There shouldn't be an IC in the County that would be against a pro-active movement by the dispatch center that's going to send them 10 minute reminders for how long that fire is burning; and in ordinary and frame construction if that fire is burning out of control for more than 20 minutes, those firefighters should be getting pulled out. A smart IC would welcome this additional help from 60-Control.

Just a little background on the progress reports. They are for the staff monitoring the box and they do listen. The only part for the dispatcher is the status Doubtful, PWH, UC. That's why once the chief of department is on scene progress reports are no required anymore. My only thought on this is why require the IC to give a progress report to the county dispatcher when the dispatcher has no power to do anything with the info? See the FDNY dispatcher performs the reloacations based on the fire status. 60 control can't relocate companies without request/permission correct?

Don't get me wrong I'm not against size-up or progress reports but I think they should have meaning or a reason. If it's a single unit response no progress report is required. I also agree with the shorter the better. For instance if the chief of your volunteer department is first on scene why should he announce that he's command? Everyone should know this. Again progress reports are good but we're not doing them for the scanner buffs or the press.

How does the amount of compartment space compare between the trucks FDNY operates. I would imagine that of the three (tiller, rearmount, and tower ladder) the tower would have the least amount of compartment space.

Not vastly different but the rear mounts have more compartment space. More stuff on the TL is out in the open (stokes, all cribbing).

Beef up code enforcement. Be more dilligent with building code violations, false alarms, etc. Have companies write violations in their neighborhoods, or the Marshal's office or whomever handles that stuff. I am sure on any given day that the fines that could be assessed could result in several thousand dollars, which might even pay to keep some of these companies open.

Already being done.

Folks take this for what it is the FDNY brass was tasked with comming up with 10s of millions in savings and was searching for anything to avoid closures. In the end I'm not sure it will help.

How about people go after the white collar morons who bankrupted the NYS pension system in the first place?

Excellent post with the exception of the above part. It's not bankrupt by any stretch.

One of the best things about our job (volly, carreer, paid on call, whatever) is the blind admiration that the kids have for us. If you don't wave back shame on you. So that's why the addition of the balls was a bad move. The small interactions you have with the public when out and about can have great benifits down the road in budget or staffing battles.

The water-in-the-boots and cupcake-in-the-helmet tricks are still carried out by today's FF's but what happens in quarters stays in quarters.

Plenty of tricks still go on but PPE, apparatus, and equipment should be off limits.

Probationary firefighter. Completed academy, but hasn't completed "probationary" period on the streets. New guy. Rookie. Whatever you call them lol.

By that definition yes. We have written and unwritten procedures to make sure they're properly supervised.

Good information and the driving force behind plenty of codes especially as they relate to schools. Eye opening to how fast a fire can spread in a public building. I've read a few articles on it by Hal Bruno a Firehouse Magazine Contributor who I believe buffed the blaze with a Chicago Squad and then covered the tragedy from a first hand account.

Since determining the cause of every fire is the lawful duty of the fire chief does anyone know of any plans if the county does indeed stop funding the Fire Investigators.

Sorry for hijacking this thread but I feel the need to respond.

To justify their existence? Remarks like this are inflammatory and only demean our brothers and sisters who were doing their jobs.

They are not inflamatory. When we spoke candidly with the officers and asked why 3 seperate LE boats had visited us that's exactly what they told us.

Perhaps you'd be interested in knowing that the US Coast Guard and New York State coordinated several week long high visibility patrols on the river intended to promote safety, increase voluntary compliance with rules and regulations, and interdict criminal activity on the water.

When your visited 3 times in 3 hours i feel it's over kill. Imagine getting pulled over 3 times in 3 hours with no probable cause. No beers, all required equipment and both of us have the 16 hour coast guard course. Maybe my experience was was the extreme but that's not the feedback I've recieved from other boaters.

So, your position is that you support the earlier posts, and feel they in fact have no other duties, expect to write tickets?

And never forget the sunscreen, Skin cancer is a killer!

Don't put words in my mouth. We all know they have other duties, but when all these boats are staffed on weekdays, and the price of gas is high, there are hardly any vessels on the river and LE outnumbers the public. I'm stating that I believe there is enforcement overkill at times. In the same vain most weekends could use the high LE prescense.

Are you arguing that the Sheriff's having a Marine Unit serves no other function, other then to write tickets? They don't respond to any other emergencies or play any other vital role?

2 firefighters leave the dock in Newburgh to enjoy a weekday off fishing on the river. 3 LE boats visit them during their couple hour voyage to justify their existance but all they manage to do is scare the fish away. At least they could have reminded us to put our sunscreen on.

RIP Gary

Anyone know how many calls the City of Newburgh has, and how many are workers?

2,321 runs in the first 9 months of the year. The do not normally do EMS. In the 80s they were good for over 100 2nd alarms a year. These days I'm guessing 40-50.

Newburgh had these staffing levels in the 80s and early 90s due to fiscal issued and layoffs. The change to day is 2 in/2 out. With 7 responding. 1 IC and 1 engine chauffeur and 1 truck chauffeur you are down to 4. 2 of the 4 must stay out side as the safety team. The department will be reduced to being able to send 2 members into standard working fires. This will not be an effective fire department. Some on here may disagree but the chaffeurs and the IC should not be part of the safety team. The city has made the decision to not provide fire protection and they will have to live with it. The fire officers should not unduly risk their members because the city put them in that position.

Also what percentage is the retirement based on, regardless of the 1 year vs. "best 3 average"?

Not everybody is in the same plan 384d,e,f?

The most common is probably 50% final average salary after 20 years of service. Some can't earn past 20 others earn an extra 1/60th maxing out at 66% after 30 years of service. Thats all for Tier II hired after 1973 I believe. Tier I had no max. There are some discrepencies between NYS Police and Fire & NYC as they are serperate pension funds. All new hires are Tier III which are again different between City of NY and State of NY. I hope this answers some of your questions.