16fire5

A lot of good points were made. Judging by the length of stretch and the position of the engine the companies may very well have operated alone. From what I see the first line when into the white PD. I think charging the second line in the street and trying to knock down some exterior fire and then into exposure 4 would be a good move. If I was stretching inside I would stick with 1 3/4" lines. The speed and manuverability are real important in PDs. I would guess that the line that goes into exposure 4 will probably need to address fire comming through a couple of windows and being able to move quickly is important. A 2 1/2" operated from the street along the exterior would be helpful but disipline is required so the line is not directed into any windows. The exposure problem is going to continue until the first line starts hitting the seat of the fire. Also if there are people trapped in the original fire building the possibility exists that the second line will be required there since it's entirely possible the first line will be committed to the first floor.
One thing that I would add is if the engine at this fire had been forced to backstretch because of hydrant positioning a real heads up move would be to drop the second line in the street.

While there are plenty of times I am happy I was not being taped it is the world we live in. So lets learn frome others mistakes. At car fires like this there is very little to gain but much to lose. The dangers at car fires are extensive and the byproducts of a burning car are probably the worst thing we come in contact on a regular basis. Don't rush, wear everything, use the reach of the stream, and approach at an angle. There was a recent article in Fire Engineering by a member of the YFD which hit the important stuff in depth. I did say very little to gain because they are good for training new members. Your nozzle team gets to work as a team on air to put out a fire. Have the forcible entry team work as a team and get the hood (after the fire is knocked down and bumpers and struts cooled) with the irons (it builds team work with the irons).

While there are plenty of times I am happy I was not being taped it is the world we live in. So lets learn frome others mistakes. At car fires like this there is very little to gain but much to lose. The dangers at car fires are extensive and the byproducts of a burning car are probably the worst thing we come in contact on a regular basis. Don't rush, wear everything, use the reach of the stream, and approach at an angle. There was a recent article in Fire Engineering by a member of the YFD which hit the important stuff in depth. I did say very little to gain because they are good for training new members. Your nozzle team gets to work as a team on air to put out a fire. Have the forcible entry team work as a team and get the hood (after the fire is knocked down and bumpers and struts cooled) with the irons (it builds team work with the irons).

While there are plenty of times I am happy I was not being taped it is the world we live in. So lets learn frome others mistakes. At car fires like this there is very little to gain but much to lose. The dangers at car fires are extensive and the byproducts of a burning car are probably the worst thing we come in contact on a regular basis. Don't rush, wear everything, use the reach of the stream, and approach at an angle. There was a recent article in Fire Engineering by a member of the YFD which hit the important stuff in depth. I did say very little to gain because they are good for training new members. Your nozzle team gets to work as a team on air to put out a fire. Have the forcible entry team work as a team and get the hood (after the fire is knocked down and bumpers and struts cooled) with the irons (it builds team work with the irons).

While there are plenty of times I am happy I was not being taped it is the world we live in. So lets learn frome others mistakes. At car fires like this there is very little to gain but much to lose. The dangers at car fires are extensive and the byproducts of a burning car are probably the worst thing we come in contact on a regular basis. Don't rush, wear everything, use the reach of the stream, and approach at an angle. There was a recent article in Fire Engineering by a member of the YFD which hit the important stuff in depth. I did say very little to gain because they are good for training new members. Your nozzle team gets to work as a team on air to put out a fire. Have the forcible entry team work as a team and get the hood (after the fire is knocked down and bumpers and struts cooled) with the irons (it builds team work with the irons).

In a lot of ways properly run fire based EMS has many benifits. The medics usually have more experience. Because of the better salary and working conditions fire based medics remain medics for a longer time. By rotating assignments (ride the truck one day an engine another and bus another) burnout can be prevented. Fire based EMS usually has better response time because of firehouse placement and ability to cross staff.
If EMS was a part of the fire department the providers would be paid a better wage, have better benifits, retirement, and would not have to worry about the contract changing every few years threating their livelyhood. I'm sure MLSS will do a good job but on the human side I hope all the providers land on their feet.

This is a quote from the advocate
"Whitbread said he was concerned that this plan would relegate volunteers to a secondary role at working fires because career firefighters could get to emergencies more quickly,"
Isn't this what the whole thing is about? Getting to the emergency (all emergency calls) quickly (with fully staffed crew)? Isn't public safety the main goal here? Apparently what's in the best interest for the residents of North Stamford is not the main concern of the X-Chief of TOR. How can you really say that you don't like a plan that will get emergency crews to a fire quicker then what your current crews can do just because they are CFF's?! I hope the public can see where their safety ranks on the priority list of this so called umbrella plan.

I used to pass the ticket back to the outside team whenever there was info about roof access or lack of rear fire escapes in the CIDS. I actually forgot it was there today and was announcing the run on the HT when the chauffeur reminded me they have the screen. Just knowing who's 10-84 helps your size up with tool assignments and what line you will have.

Bro,
Reread the chief's original post. Nowhere is having pride in service to your community or parades discussed in a negative way. The question is how do communities ensure adequete protection when they attend out of town parades? Remember QTIP? Career firefighters march in parades too. I always enjoy Marching up 5th in mid March. Sometimes I just have to find someone who's name ends in a vowel to work for me so I can assure coverage. Again QTIP. Pride and esprit de corp are just as important in career firehouses. Think about it we spend 24 hours together in close quarters.

Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call
http://www.firehouse.com/topics/top-headlines/helmet-cam-video-nj-ffs-close-call
I don't even know where to start with this video. I'm usually the one saying it's easy to Monday morning qb and giving the benifit of the doubt but I think a good discussion on safety can be learned from this.
Right off the bat
1. We see the fire in and to the left. Yet there's a bunch of guys with a line and the nozzle on the little porch creating a traffic jam putting their regulators in. Get off to the side out of the venting smoke on a knee get your PPE squared away bleed the nozzle make entry and put out the fire.
2. A discussion is ongoing about who's inside how many? Obviously there are accountability issues. You must know who you have and a general idea where they are.
3. I hear a pass alarm going off as the guy is making his way to the back. Is anyone addressing it?
4. Why is a line operating from the exterior while interior operations are underway?
5. Obviously companies have been on scene at least a little while and a FAST and additional companies are being requested. This should have been requested quickly. We are more than 2 minutes into the video.
6. Differing people giving orders and they are contridictory. Honestly it looks to me as if the first and subsuquent lines should have gone through the front door. This is a basic concept. Protect the interior stairs and the escape route of the occupants. As the subsuquent lines come in they reinforce the first line, back it up, or go above for extension. This is a pretty fundamental concept of firefighting.
7. Now a member shows up in the window. They decide to move the ladder which under the circumstances is necessary.
8. Guy in the window has a haligan. He should have taken the window and the sash. I probably would have bought his some time by venting the heat and smoke a couple of feet above him while he waited for the ladder.
9. If you don't practice the basics like portable ladders it shows when the S* hits the fan. If you are going to ask the guy to come down head first the angle should have been decreased and footed. With all the people there with the ladder why didn't someone ascend to help the member down? You could have gone up and pinned the guy to the ladder for the descent. It wouldn't have been pretty but he probably wouldn't have fell.
10. Now the guy falls head first off the ladder. He is now out of the IDLH and immediate danger. I would have brought EMS back to him or had FF/EMTs board him. There was no good reason to handle him by dragging him to the front. It's a good idea at this point to question the downed FF about who was with him and their whereabouts.
11. Now the MAYDAY, first a roll call or PAR is needed a minute ago, assign a chief to supervise the mayday and give him resources and get him on another channel.
12. The practice of donning the facepiece without the regulator and walking around the fireground limits your field of vision greatly. Practice taking your knee and donning your facepiece and hood just prior to entering the IDLH. It allows you to see what your doing prior to entering, keeps your mask from fogging up, and limits your air consumption. At this fire its appears some firefighters may have used up their air prior to even operating inside.
My conclusions may not be entirely correct on all these items but this in no way seems like a smoothly run fire. No doubt these guys were faced with a working fire with entrappment and probably inadequete initial manpower. But if you train for the fundamental tasks you will be more efficent when adrenilin and emotions are high. Ever go to a fire when the fire department seems to be running the operation and not the fire running the fire department?

Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call
http://www.firehouse.com/topics/top-headlines/helmet-cam-video-nj-ffs-close-call
I don't even know where to start with this video. I'm usually the one saying it's easy to Monday morning qb and giving the benifit of the doubt but I think a good discussion on safety can be learned from this.
Right off the bat
1. We see the fire in and to the left. Yet there's a bunch of guys with a line and the nozzle on the little porch creating a traffic jam putting their regulators in. Get off to the side out of the venting smoke on a knee get your PPE squared away bleed the nozzle make entry and put out the fire.
2. A discussion is ongoing about who's inside how many? Obviously there are accountability issues. You must know who you have and a general idea where they are.
3. I hear a pass alarm going off as the guy is making his way to the back. Is anyone addressing it?
4. Why is a line operating from the exterior while interior operations are underway?
5. Obviously companies have been on scene at least a little while and a FAST and additional companies are being requested. This should have been requested quickly. We are more than 2 minutes into the video.
6. Differing people giving orders and they are contridictory. Honestly it looks to me as if the first and subsuquent lines should have gone through the front door. This is a basic concept. Protect the interior stairs and the escape route of the occupants. As the subsuquent lines come in they reinforce the first line, back it up, or go above for extension. This is a pretty fundamental concept of firefighting.
7. Now a member shows up in the window. They decide to move the ladder which under the circumstances is necessary.
8. Guy in the window has a haligan. He should have taken the window and the sash. I probably would have bought his some time by venting the heat and smoke a couple of feet above him while he waited for the ladder.
9. If you don't practice the basics like portable ladders it shows when the S* hits the fan. If you are going to ask the guy to come down head first the angle should have been decreased and footed. With all the people there with the ladder why didn't someone ascend to help the member down? You could have gone up and pinned the guy to the ladder for the descent. It wouldn't have been pretty but he probably wouldn't have fell.
10. Now the guy falls head first off the ladder. He is now out of the IDLH and immediate danger. I would have brought EMS back to him or had FF/EMTs board him. There was no good reason to handle him by dragging him to the front. It's a good idea at this point to question the downed FF about who was with him and their whereabouts.
11. Now the MAYDAY, first a roll call or PAR is needed a minute ago, assign a chief to supervise the mayday and give him resources and get him on another channel.
12. The practice of donning the facepiece without the regulator and walking around the fireground limits your field of vision greatly. Practice taking your knee and donning your facepiece and hood just prior to entering the IDLH. It allows you to see what your doing prior to entering, keeps your mask from fogging up, and limits your air consumption. At this fire its appears some firefighters may have used up their air prior to even operating inside.
My conclusions may not be entirely correct on all these items but this in no way seems like a smoothly run fire. No doubt these guys were faced with a working fire with entrappment and probably inadequete initial manpower. But if you train for the fundamental tasks you will be more efficent when adrenilin and emotions are high. Ever go to a fire when the fire department seems to be running the operation and not the fire running the fire department?

Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call
http://www.firehouse.com/topics/top-headlines/helmet-cam-video-nj-ffs-close-call
I don't even know where to start with this video. I'm usually the one saying it's easy to Monday morning qb and giving the benifit of the doubt but I think a good discussion on safety can be learned from this.
Right off the bat
1. We see the fire in and to the left. Yet there's a bunch of guys with a line and the nozzle on the little porch creating a traffic jam putting their regulators in. Get off to the side out of the venting smoke on a knee get your PPE squared away bleed the nozzle make entry and put out the fire.
2. A discussion is ongoing about who's inside how many? Obviously there are accountability issues. You must know who you have and a general idea where they are.
3. I hear a pass alarm going off as the guy is making his way to the back. Is anyone addressing it?
4. Why is a line operating from the exterior while interior operations are underway?
5. Obviously companies have been on scene at least a little while and a FAST and additional companies are being requested. This should have been requested quickly. We are more than 2 minutes into the video.
6. Differing people giving orders and they are contridictory. Honestly it looks to me as if the first and subsuquent lines should have gone through the front door. This is a basic concept. Protect the interior stairs and the escape route of the occupants. As the subsuquent lines come in they reinforce the first line, back it up, or go above for extension. This is a pretty fundamental concept of firefighting.
7. Now a member shows up in the window. They decide to move the ladder which under the circumstances is necessary.
8. Guy in the window has a haligan. He should have taken the window and the sash. I probably would have bought his some time by venting the heat and smoke a couple of feet above him while he waited for the ladder.
9. If you don't practice the basics like portable ladders it shows when the S* hits the fan. If you are going to ask the guy to come down head first the angle should have been decreased and footed. With all the people there with the ladder why didn't someone ascend to help the member down? You could have gone up and pinned the guy to the ladder for the descent. It wouldn't have been pretty but he probably wouldn't have fell.
10. Now the guy falls head first off the ladder. He is now out of the IDLH and immediate danger. I would have brought EMS back to him or had FF/EMTs board him. There was no good reason to handle him by dragging him to the front. It's a good idea at this point to question the downed FF about who was with him and their whereabouts.
11. Now the MAYDAY, first a roll call or PAR is needed a minute ago, assign a chief to supervise the mayday and give him resources and get him on another channel.
12. The practice of donning the facepiece without the regulator and walking around the fireground limits your field of vision greatly. Practice taking your knee and donning your facepiece and hood just prior to entering the IDLH. It allows you to see what your doing prior to entering, keeps your mask from fogging up, and limits your air consumption. At this fire its appears some firefighters may have used up their air prior to even operating inside.
My conclusions may not be entirely correct on all these items but this in no way seems like a smoothly run fire. No doubt these guys were faced with a working fire with entrappment and probably inadequete initial manpower. But if you train for the fundamental tasks you will be more efficent when adrenilin and emotions are high. Ever go to a fire when the fire department seems to be running the operation and not the fire running the fire department?

Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call
http://www.firehouse.com/topics/top-headlines/helmet-cam-video-nj-ffs-close-call
I don't even know where to start with this video. I'm usually the one saying it's easy to Monday morning qb and giving the benifit of the doubt but I think a good discussion on safety can be learned from this.
Right off the bat
1. We see the fire in and to the left. Yet there's a bunch of guys with a line and the nozzle on the little porch creating a traffic jam putting their regulators in. Get off to the side out of the venting smoke on a knee get your PPE squared away bleed the nozzle make entry and put out the fire.
2. A discussion is ongoing about who's inside how many? Obviously there are accountability issues. You must know who you have and a general idea where they are.
3. I hear a pass alarm going off as the guy is making his way to the back. Is anyone addressing it?
4. Why is a line operating from the exterior while interior operations are underway?
5. Obviously companies have been on scene at least a little while and a FAST and additional companies are being requested. This should have been requested quickly. We are more than 2 minutes into the video.
6. Differing people giving orders and they are contridictory. Honestly it looks to me as if the first and subsuquent lines should have gone through the front door. This is a basic concept. Protect the interior stairs and the escape route of the occupants. As the subsuquent lines come in they reinforce the first line, back it up, or go above for extension. This is a pretty fundamental concept of firefighting.
7. Now a member shows up in the window. They decide to move the ladder which under the circumstances is necessary.
8. Guy in the window has a haligan. He should have taken the window and the sash. I probably would have bought his some time by venting the heat and smoke a couple of feet above him while he waited for the ladder.
9. If you don't practice the basics like portable ladders it shows when the S* hits the fan. If you are going to ask the guy to come down head first the angle should have been decreased and footed. With all the people there with the ladder why didn't someone ascend to help the member down? You could have gone up and pinned the guy to the ladder for the descent. It wouldn't have been pretty but he probably wouldn't have fell.
10. Now the guy falls head first off the ladder. He is now out of the IDLH and immediate danger. I would have brought EMS back to him or had FF/EMTs board him. There was no good reason to handle him by dragging him to the front. It's a good idea at this point to question the downed FF about who was with him and their whereabouts.
11. Now the MAYDAY, first a roll call or PAR is needed a minute ago, assign a chief to supervise the mayday and give him resources and get him on another channel.
12. The practice of donning the facepiece without the regulator and walking around the fireground limits your field of vision greatly. Practice taking your knee and donning your facepiece and hood just prior to entering the IDLH. It allows you to see what your doing prior to entering, keeps your mask from fogging up, and limits your air consumption. At this fire its appears some firefighters may have used up their air prior to even operating inside.
My conclusions may not be entirely correct on all these items but this in no way seems like a smoothly run fire. No doubt these guys were faced with a working fire with entrappment and probably inadequete initial manpower. But if you train for the fundamental tasks you will be more efficent when adrenilin and emotions are high. Ever go to a fire when the fire department seems to be running the operation and not the fire running the fire department?

"I bring you these 15....opps...........10...10 commandments" - Mel Brooks

Capt,
Since I have gotten promoted I definatly read a lot more of these fatality reports. THe IAFF pushed hard for NIOSH to do these investigations so we could all learn from them and the contributing factors. I read one the other day that I recommend for anyone with the time.
http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/reports/fire/documents/fmloddhouston09.pdf

Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call
http://www.firehouse.com/topics/top-headlines/helmet-cam-video-nj-ffs-close-call
I don't even know where to start with this video. I'm usually the one saying it's easy to Monday morning qb and giving the benifit of the doubt but I think a good discussion on safety can be learned from this.
Right off the bat
1. We see the fire in and to the left. Yet there's a bunch of guys with a line and the nozzle on the little porch creating a traffic jam putting their regulators in. Get off to the side out of the venting smoke on a knee get your PPE squared away bleed the nozzle make entry and put out the fire.
2. A discussion is ongoing about who's inside how many? Obviously there are accountability issues. You must know who you have and a general idea where they are.
3. I hear a pass alarm going off as the guy is making his way to the back. Is anyone addressing it?
4. Why is a line operating from the exterior while interior operations are underway?
5. Obviously companies have been on scene at least a little while and a FAST and additional companies are being requested. This should have been requested quickly. We are more than 2 minutes into the video.
6. Differing people giving orders and they are contridictory. Honestly it looks to me as if the first and subsuquent lines should have gone through the front door. This is a basic concept. Protect the interior stairs and the escape route of the occupants. As the subsuquent lines come in they reinforce the first line, back it up, or go above for extension. This is a pretty fundamental concept of firefighting.
7. Now a member shows up in the window. They decide to move the ladder which under the circumstances is necessary.
8. Guy in the window has a haligan. He should have taken the window and the sash. I probably would have bought his some time by venting the heat and smoke a couple of feet above him while he waited for the ladder.
9. If you don't practice the basics like portable ladders it shows when the S* hits the fan. If you are going to ask the guy to come down head first the angle should have been decreased and footed. With all the people there with the ladder why didn't someone ascend to help the member down? You could have gone up and pinned the guy to the ladder for the descent. It wouldn't have been pretty but he probably wouldn't have fell.
10. Now the guy falls head first off the ladder. He is now out of the IDLH and immediate danger. I would have brought EMS back to him or had FF/EMTs board him. There was no good reason to handle him by dragging him to the front. It's a good idea at this point to question the downed FF about who was with him and their whereabouts.
11. Now the MAYDAY, first a roll call or PAR is needed a minute ago, assign a chief to supervise the mayday and give him resources and get him on another channel.
12. The practice of donning the facepiece without the regulator and walking around the fireground limits your field of vision greatly. Practice taking your knee and donning your facepiece and hood just prior to entering the IDLH. It allows you to see what your doing prior to entering, keeps your mask from fogging up, and limits your air consumption. At this fire its appears some firefighters may have used up their air prior to even operating inside.
My conclusions may not be entirely correct on all these items but this in no way seems like a smoothly run fire. No doubt these guys were faced with a working fire with entrappment and probably inadequete initial manpower. But if you train for the fundamental tasks you will be more efficent when adrenilin and emotions are high. Ever go to a fire when the fire department seems to be running the operation and not the fire running the fire department?

Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call
http://www.firehouse.com/topics/top-headlines/helmet-cam-video-nj-ffs-close-call
I don't even know where to start with this video. I'm usually the one saying it's easy to Monday morning qb and giving the benifit of the doubt but I think a good discussion on safety can be learned from this.
Right off the bat
1. We see the fire in and to the left. Yet there's a bunch of guys with a line and the nozzle on the little porch creating a traffic jam putting their regulators in. Get off to the side out of the venting smoke on a knee get your PPE squared away bleed the nozzle make entry and put out the fire.
2. A discussion is ongoing about who's inside how many? Obviously there are accountability issues. You must know who you have and a general idea where they are.
3. I hear a pass alarm going off as the guy is making his way to the back. Is anyone addressing it?
4. Why is a line operating from the exterior while interior operations are underway?
5. Obviously companies have been on scene at least a little while and a FAST and additional companies are being requested. This should have been requested quickly. We are more than 2 minutes into the video.
6. Differing people giving orders and they are contridictory. Honestly it looks to me as if the first and subsuquent lines should have gone through the front door. This is a basic concept. Protect the interior stairs and the escape route of the occupants. As the subsuquent lines come in they reinforce the first line, back it up, or go above for extension. This is a pretty fundamental concept of firefighting.
7. Now a member shows up in the window. They decide to move the ladder which under the circumstances is necessary.
8. Guy in the window has a haligan. He should have taken the window and the sash. I probably would have bought his some time by venting the heat and smoke a couple of feet above him while he waited for the ladder.
9. If you don't practice the basics like portable ladders it shows when the S* hits the fan. If you are going to ask the guy to come down head first the angle should have been decreased and footed. With all the people there with the ladder why didn't someone ascend to help the member down? You could have gone up and pinned the guy to the ladder for the descent. It wouldn't have been pretty but he probably wouldn't have fell.
10. Now the guy falls head first off the ladder. He is now out of the IDLH and immediate danger. I would have brought EMS back to him or had FF/EMTs board him. There was no good reason to handle him by dragging him to the front. It's a good idea at this point to question the downed FF about who was with him and their whereabouts.
11. Now the MAYDAY, first a roll call or PAR is needed a minute ago, assign a chief to supervise the mayday and give him resources and get him on another channel.
12. The practice of donning the facepiece without the regulator and walking around the fireground limits your field of vision greatly. Practice taking your knee and donning your facepiece and hood just prior to entering the IDLH. It allows you to see what your doing prior to entering, keeps your mask from fogging up, and limits your air consumption. At this fire its appears some firefighters may have used up their air prior to even operating inside.
My conclusions may not be entirely correct on all these items but this in no way seems like a smoothly run fire. No doubt these guys were faced with a working fire with entrappment and probably inadequete initial manpower. But if you train for the fundamental tasks you will be more efficent when adrenilin and emotions are high. Ever go to a fire when the fire department seems to be running the operation and not the fire running the fire department?

Capt,
Since I have gotten promoted I definatly read a lot more of these fatality reports. THe IAFF pushed hard for NIOSH to do these investigations so we could all learn from them and the contributing factors. I read one the other day that I recommend for anyone with the time.
http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/reports/fire/documents/fmloddhouston09.pdf

The first paragraph was a Toluene tank in Phoenix, AZ. A common training video to illustrate tunnel vision. I respect Chief Buunacini while chief they shared the hard lessons they learned that resulted in line of duty deaths. This incident and the Supermarket fire that killed Bret Tarver immediatly come to mind.
On to the dumpster fire. I think you hit the nail on the head here Capt. when you say how the department and company must know their district. Knowing the products and the intracies of what goes on can guide the strategies and tactics for responses to the facility. And the strategy may very well have been to let it burn. Some of the sugestions of flooding or using the deck pipe all probably could have caused explosion because of the contents. Knowing you area and preplanning to often are taking a back seat to all the other things on our plate.

The contract between an FD and a Fire protection district is made yearly, or on another time constraint, as far as I know. Such a contract would absolutely be subject to FOIL. A good place to go research would be your local Tax Assessor's Office to see what the tax levied to the Protection District is, and work from there. One could also reasonably believe that the Commissioner/ Board/ Political-Based FIscal Manager, etc. of the Entity that is providing the service to the FPD would be the ones who set the "rate" for service, i.e. how much the FPD will pay for coverage for the year.
I know of a Fire Protection District that is contracted for service from a Village FD. (Combination Career/Volunteer FD with ALS Ambulance)Being a municipal FD, they can bill to recover cost of EMS service. Subsequently, the Village Mayor/ Town Supervisor often work out a "rebate" to the Town's taxpayers. Disclaimer: I am not sure of all the particulars in how it is worked out, this information came to me in some research I was doing for another project.
A Fire Protection District is not a way to automatically run away with a fire department or tax money. Conversely, an entity providing service to an FPD could theoretically pull a deal apart by charging entirely too much for service. Remember, there are some AG/Comptroller reports and decisions out there that say a government agency cannot use EMS Billing or Contracts and Fees Charged as a "funding stream" i.e. to make a profit.
I would also ventue to say that Ideally, as long as the Municipal FD or Fire District was fiscally responsible, made reasonable purchases, and had justified expenses, there should be minimal issues with the public and politicians, but then again, public perception and politics is a whole other thread for a whole other time.
Hope this helps.

When able we encourage our chauffeurs to paralel to the curb and use the 10' flexible lenght of suction hose we carry to make the hydrant connection. This tends to no interfere with ladder company apparatus positioning. And as stated above frequently when chauffeurs use the front suction they tend to leave the a** end of their rig in the street. This is not a hard fast rule in the department many companies and chauffeurs have personal preferences. In most cases our chauffeurs are protected by the street being close by PD, the block is gridlocked by the first alarm assignment and the ladder company usually enters the block after the engine and from the same direction so their positioning will in most cases protect the engine.
Also the points about the cost and inherent flaws with front suctions should make any department purchasing a new rig give it serious consideration. That money could be very well spent elsewhere if you ask me.

When able we encourage our chauffeurs to paralel to the curb and use the 10' flexible lenght of suction hose we carry to make the hydrant connection. This tends to no interfere with ladder company apparatus positioning. And as stated above frequently when chauffeurs use the front suction they tend to leave the a** end of their rig in the street. This is not a hard fast rule in the department many companies and chauffeurs have personal preferences. In most cases our chauffeurs are protected by the street being close by PD, the block is gridlocked by the first alarm assignment and the ladder company usually enters the block after the engine and from the same direction so their positioning will in most cases protect the engine.
Also the points about the cost and inherent flaws with front suctions should make any department purchasing a new rig give it serious consideration. That money could be very well spent elsewhere if you ask me.

Some words from karen Torre, New Haven20 Attorney:
Spilled Chili And Other Liberal Nonsense
By KAREN LEE TORRE
As if the New York City Fire Department has nothing better to do, U.S. District Judge Nicholas G. Garaufis has ensured that it will be embroiled in court proceedings for years, at enormous public expense, and for unsound reasons.
By judicial fiat, Garaufis invalidated FDNY hiring exams as discriminatory against African Americans. Acting as if racial imbalance in the FDNY was a social anomaly and the handiwork of racists in city government, Garaufis managed to transform nationally common statistical disparities in qualification rates into a ridiculous finding that city officials intentionally discriminated against blacks.
In an intellectually indefensible leapfrog, Garaufis cites the racial gap seen over years of fire department testing and concludes that this amounts to intentional discrimination because city officials were aware of this racial gap for years. This non sequitur is a convenient shield against a constitutional attack on one of the most obnoxious “remedies” in judicial history. Crude, standardless racial quota hiring will now be imposed.
Notably, and for reasons that ring hollow, Garaufis exempted New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg from the politically injurious “intentional discriminator” label. Bloomberg just happens to be the one who will decide how far the city will challenge Garaufis’ rulings. The seemingly irrational drawing of a line at the mayor’s door, while besmirching the reputations of the less powerful on the city’s political ladder, gives rise to the appearance of a judicial move calculated to increase the chances that New York City will acquiesce in this judicial intrusion into its affairs.
Bloomberg should not capitulate. He should fight it tooth and nail or Garaufis will be his new fire chief and take over the FDNY for life. Other like judges have done that and wrecked the agencies of which they took control.
Even before Garaufis, the FDNY, responding to pressure from race mongers, dumbed down its tests to the point they became a joke. Here is one of many outrageous examples: One test actually asked candidates what they should do if they discovered that a co-worker spilled chili on the floor and didn’t wipe it up. Adding to this nonsense, more than one of the moronic multiple choice answers was correct. Firefighters erupted in protest and disgust over this assault on their professional standards, right in the city where hundreds of firefighters lost their lives.
Even the spilled-chili type of questions won’t satisfy liberal activist judges, who know nothing about the jobs of these heroes, show little respect for them or concerns for their safety, and issue these offensive edicts from the safety and comfort of their chambers. That these lunatic rulings come almost entirely from President Bill Clinton appointees (and will no doubt proliferate under President Barack Obama-appointed “judges”) should be laid out for voters in November.
While we’re at it, let’s not stop with spilled chili for firefighters. Let Garaufis extend his logic to fix the racial gap in bar exam pass rates and stop pretending that education and knowledge are important to our jobs. Ditch those unfair questions about property and contracts. Let’s learn from the learned Garaufis. Here’s a suggested question on a judicially reformed multistate exam:
A witness you are cross-examining at trial starts to pick his nose. What should you do?
A. Yell, “Dude, you’re grossing me out” in front of the jury.
B. Offer the witness some Kleenex.
C. Move to strike the snot.
D. Start picking your own nose so the witness does not feel isolated.
Answer key: Both B and C are correct and you get two extra points if you are oppressed.
Maybe Garaufis will compromise and allow New York City to change the spilled chili hypothetical to at least add that the chili is on fire.
Disgusted firefighters from around the nation are, at last, organizing nationally to fight against this elitist judicial assault on their profession – an overdue and welcome development.
Recently, countless thousands of firefighters gathered in New York to bury one of their own killed in the line of duty. The hero left behind a wife and beautiful little daughters. His twin brother, also a firefighter, must now bear an unspeakable pain for the rest of his own life. Mayor Bloomberg – do the right thing. Don’t let robed elitists make a joke of your fire department.•
Karen Lee Torre, a New Haven trial lawyer, litigates civil rights issues in the federal courts. Her e-mail address is thimbleislands@sbcglobal.net

Capt. your 100% right the FAST should be reserved for firefighters in distress. I believe it would have teeth in the case of Mohegan since they have recently been cited by PESH for respiratory standard violations. Not having the required standby team at an IDLH would probably be considered a repeat violation by PESH and the potential always exists for serious repercutions. And of course the lawyers would have a field day.
To the Mohegan members take Chief Flynn's advice and don't take it personally no one on this thread questioned the effort or the tactics taken by members. The discussion for the most part involves the unsafe pratice of operating with an inadequete number of firefighters on scene.

In my opinion a "simple" fire would be a room and contents involved in fire, in an unoccupied, single story, type 3 or 5, private dwelling, with no extension, and no water supply issues.
Before I retired, to my knowledge my job never as a practice put a FAST company, particularly a mutual-aid FAST to work, unless as required for a firefighter in distress. It should be illegal (even though it is a violation of the Standard, it doesn't have the teeth it should) to put a FAST company to work for other than FAST purposes with no other company on scene to IMMEDIATELY take it's place. If a firefighter is killed or injured because no FAST is available, the lawyers are going to feast on the IC, and the department. Just my opinion.