16fire5

Some of the short comings of the Mohegan FD have come to light with this recent spate of working fires. Among them, 7 positions apparently left vacant, 3 fire stations staffed with one firefighter alone in each station, and the apparently consistent practice of putting a mutual aid "FAST" company to work as a means of supplementing their inability of adequate fire attack.
For starters.......
You lost me after the word "monday." But WHAT has changed if a department cannot field an adequate number of firefighters for a working fire (if this is the case)? The answer is apparent is it not? That community might be in serious trouble if it cannot field a firefighting force effective enough to suppress a "simple" working fire. What about (as someone already pointed out earlier) a school, an elderly care facility, or another place of public assembly?
There have been multiple threads of discussion regarding fire emergencies within Westchester County on this board, and manpower has and is an ongoing issue in this forum.
And sometimes, even in the fire service, with adequate preparation and an effective workforce; things can go right. Peoples' lives have/can/and will continue to be saved, peoples' homes and businesses shall continue to be saved, and that is no fantasy.

If you look at the IA it again appears the FAST was again put to work without another FAST on scene. I know I sound like a broken record on this but this will work fine until someone is injured or killed. The IC that is ignoring 2 in 2 out is opening up themselves and the district to tremendous liability. I know that Mohegan was cited in the past year by PESH but I'm not sure of the particulars. It is a shame that the safety of the firefighters (paid or volunteer) is being sacraficed because of daytime manpower problems in Mohegan.

No SOP. We train to clear the whole window and the sash if entering through the window. Some of those windows are not completely taken which I would venture to guess that on the fire floor members were conducting their primary as fast as possible knowing there were confirmed victims.

remember585 basically just summed it up.......if u cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen....ball breaking is a big part of our job in the kitchen and around the fire house. Everyone that is growing up now and so sensitve and has everything given to them and they are told that they are great.. society is becoming too soft.. every sport team i ever played on(basically hockey) there was a lot of ball breaking and it got me preppared for what they firehouse is like and plus i grew up around it and understand it..If yypur gonna be a baby and not be a man maybe this isnt the job for you

REALLY???? That's why snot-nosed, hot-shot new Medics treat EMTs with over 20 years experience like they are the hired help and know nothing!!!! In my books, 20+ years is both TIME & EXPERIENCE which should be respected!
Sorry Lt. - I got off of your original thread also.

There have been a number of discussions about recent structural fires. I think we get the drift that there are a number of members unhappy with those discussions. I think it's important to keep in mind that adequetly staffed apparatus with trained personnel responding quickly is of great benifit to firefighter safety and obviously those we are sworn to protect. Staffing and its relation to firefighter and civillian safety is obviously important enough of a topic for Homeland Security security to fund a study by NIST on the topic. Additionally I have seen a number of NIOSH firefighter fatality reports that list staffing/# of responding personnel as a contributing factor in the death of a firefighter during interior firefighting. With all this being said why should this board shy away of this topic? Life Safety is our primary concern we should highlight the inadequicies if we have any hope of improving these tough issues.

I think that censorship would be the worst thing that could happen. It would probably cause more members to leave or be angered then any other reason. When we disagree, somebody, somewhere is not going to like what someone else's opinion is. Here on this site many times opinions, are not opinions, they are fact, as proven by recordings and records. By shining the light of truth on subjects that are not discussed anywhere else on the internet, everyone will better from it. I know when I ask questions I get answers here. I called my local FD and got a recording, A RECORDING.
I guess it comes down to
If you don't like it, don't read it.
If it is an opinion, voice your own.
Facts are discuss-able not disputable.
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
If you cannot answer the questions, you should not be in a position to be asked.

I have learned much watching this site over the years and it is only because of truth and factual talk that I and everyone else has benefited.

And why are you not a fan? 'Cause you don't like the way it looks? I think you need to have a better reason than that. From a practical standpoint, that rig is HUGE for NYC streets and the shorter it is, the better it is to operate. With a long bumper having no operational value, they order a short one and hope to hit less stuff.
General FYI: TL's have "Jacks" on the front bumper and rear quarters. "Outriggers" are the mid-mounted stabilizers.

It seems form IAs that westchester departments are calling FAST teams on a regular basis. Continually I point out that the FAST is put to work for non FAST duties. If this is happening its probably points to the fact that the first alarm assignment is not adequete. The IC should plan to have crews in reserve on scene to perfom the tasks needed to avoid using the FAST. Depending on the department in addition to calling for a FAST on the working fire simulataeously requesting an extra engine and truck would provide this reserve. If you operating at a working fire and all hands are working and no one is there in reserve you are not prepared. I could understand the arguement of limited resources or mutual aid being too far away if this was Wyoming but we are talking about Westchester County. The NFPA 1710 recomendations are the minimum resources needed to combat a fire I think adding an extra engine and truck to that is being adequetly prepared for the realities of the fireground. There are many added benifits like giving the first due guys a blow and think of the experince the the probies from mutual aid get doing the washdown and getting to find out how first due handled the fire they were confronted with. I am continually impressed with our chief officers abilities to stay ahead of a fire and request resources before the need arises. That is the benifit of and experienced incident commander and why one is invaluable.

It seems form IAs that westchester departments are calling FAST teams on a regular basis. Continually I point out that the FAST is put to work for non FAST duties. If this is happening its probably points to the fact that the first alarm assignment is not adequete. The IC should plan to have crews in reserve on scene to perfom the tasks needed to avoid using the FAST. Depending on the department in addition to calling for a FAST on the working fire simulataeously requesting an extra engine and truck would provide this reserve. If you operating at a working fire and all hands are working and no one is there in reserve you are not prepared. I could understand the arguement of limited resources or mutual aid being too far away if this was Wyoming but we are talking about Westchester County. The NFPA 1710 recomendations are the minimum resources needed to combat a fire I think adding an extra engine and truck to that is being adequetly prepared for the realities of the fireground. There are many added benifits like giving the first due guys a blow and think of the experince the the probies from mutual aid get doing the washdown and getting to find out how first due handled the fire they were confronted with. I am continually impressed with our chief officers abilities to stay ahead of a fire and request resources before the need arises. That is the benifit of and experienced incident commander and why one is invaluable.

I cannot understand how a written test can discriminate. The test for FDNY is given by DCAS not the FDNY. The whole idea this is FDNY generated is a disgrace.The hiring process is not really conducted by FDNY the DCAS people administer the test and the physical part. FDNY does the medicals and investigation only after DCAS certifies a list to be used. This judge may become the new Sifton in what he will do to the FDNY. Time for Vulcans to grow up and be men and not expect things to be handed to them, too many great minority firefighters will know doubt be saddened by this change if it happens, no more merit system.

Judging by the FDNY/NYPD response time to inwood and the heights for jumpers and people in the water I think that time would be inadequete to the Tappan Zee area. Other posters may be on to something with the regional response. A Westchester River Rescue type agency combining the multiple resources would probably be more effective than every small department on the river trying to have their own boat.

I don't know about how everyone who was working in southern Westchester that day feels; but I can tell you I have never felt good about the way things went down on 9-11. I can't see anybody trying to take any credit for what we did not do.
I remember very distinctly that morning and the ensuing chaos. We received tones following the collapses to the effect of "all departments south of 287 respond to Manhattan." As eager as we were to respond, our Chief decided to hold units, stock medical supplies and await further orders. A recall of all off duty members was instated; the southern Westchester Chiefs formulated some kind of plan, and units eventually responded to the Bronx staging area. My squad was working, so we were held held back, while off-duty members beefed up staffing on rigs and responded to the Bronx. Frustrating.
The story from the responding Captain was that the staging area was at times somewhat out of control. A chief in the firehouse had a missing son in the collapse and guys were eating pizza in the street and joking around. Embarrasing.
We went on 24on/24off schedule for a few days. There was nothing that most of us could do, except cover our own response areas. Some members staffed a full compliment ladder company, relocated to a Bronx station, and had to endure a "lecture" from a former fire commissioner in front of FDNY members. Humiliating.
When somebody finally organized something for the hundreds of career firefighters to "officially" do, we all boarded tour buses out of Station 3 in Mt. Vernon, rode down the West Side in front of cheering crowds, ran a gauntlet of tools and supplies, walked to the site to be met at the FD Command Post and told "sorry guys, there's been a mix-up, we have to go home." Then we had to walk past cheering crowds back to the buses. Humiliating and frustrating. I remember a brother, back on the bus asking "what did we come here for lunch?"
The only times I ever felt useful was helping fill the ranks at funerals. This came with a call through the unions, it had nothing to do with the County. One of the earliest was in the Bronx; using a Yonkers Casson and honor guard for the casket. I'll never forget the now deceased Chief from Yonkers who helped me to get a grasp on the magnitude of what had happened. When that Chief left us a couple/few years later, I thought back to the day we buried FDNY Firefighter Manuel DelValle. I could never have imagined that Chief wouldn't be with us thereafter.
Frustration, embarassment, humiliation.
Every one of us who ever attended a funeral or memorial for a 9-11 cop or firefighter knows who the true heroes were. As Captain Billy Burke's brother said at his funeral in St. Patricks Cathedral "One hundred years from now, all of us will be gone and mostly forgotten. But these 343 firefighters names and memories will live way beyond that." That rang so true to me.

NYS Town Law does weigh in on the issue. The firefighters elect the chief (this includes the career firefighters if I remember an opinion correctly) then the Commisioners confirm the chief. If the commisioners do not confirm the chief it gets kicked back to the company. Commisioners can go career and hire a chief but thats a different discussion.