RescueKujo

Ok lets move it away from that, What does your text book say? What does ConEd say in their training material and what do you written policies say.....word of mouth is not the way to go.
Many people use numbering because it makes your point clear, you are really streatching it to make it a bad thing.
While some go overboard (bashing) we would never want to learn from others mistakes. I wonder how many new FF's or Jr. FF's on here look at this and at the very least say to themselves, "this is an issue, I dont know who is correct, but I better learn more about it".
True, the dept knows and maybe they will reevaluate their operation, No need to let any other FF's know about it because it might embarress someone. If 1 more ff "gets it" from here.....Thats a good thing.
You are correct we don't know the whole story, but from what we see its hard to justify and their are learning points here.
Adapt does not mean ignor SOP's, Rules etc. We have buried a lot of brothers who "adapted" when they should not have.
No one said he did have to on here, they said he could if he wanted to. However, as a chief if he is not accountable for all actions (good ones and bad ones) then he should not be chief.
If his actions were wrong and he does not acknowledge that (to his dept.) what happens when a new member who witnessed it, tries it 5 or 10 years from now and it does not work, whose fault is it then?

Seth will be along in a moment to correct me if I'm wrong, but I *think* the reason for the apparent inconsistency is we're talking about very different types of photo posts/threads.
In a thread like this, someone posts a photo or photos as an education/training matter and positively *invites* critique. That's fair enough.
But there are other threads where fire scene photographers simply post their work, as 'news'. Seth, I think, wants these posts and threads to be off-limits for such criticism/nit-picking - because he wants to encourage fire scene photographers to post their work without fear of people nitpicking the department being photographed to death! That's also fair and sensible in my view.
So the apparent inconsistency actually makes perfect sense :-)
Mike

I went out today hoping to catch some shots of some of D/FW's fire apparatus. I headed over to Flower Mound since I haven't been there in a while, and they've gotten some new Pierce Arrow XT in the last year or two. Well I got lucky because I spotted a big black cloud of smoke and went looking for it. I had trouble locating the exact location because it was a grass fire on someone's property with a long gravel road leading back to their house. However as I was driving down one of the major roads in Flower Mound Truck 504 and Air Supply 501 were running code towards me. I parked across the street in a residential neighboorhood and walked down to the end of the street. Here's what I caught.
Flower Mound Truck 504

Flower Mound Air Supply 501

Here's Flower Mound Engine 503 refilling its water tank before going back in to protect the home.

Mutual aid was called in from Lewisville and Grapevine. There were several brush trucks that responded and headed down the gravel road to attack the fire. I didn't get photos of any of those units as I stayed behind the police and fire line. Here are some of the Engines that responded mutual aid for manpower.
Lewisville Engine 166 (Dragon Slayer)

The front bumper of 166

Grapevine Engine 561 (roto-rays are starting to become a trend now in the D/FW area)

561's logo

The rear of Engine 561

After the Bat. Chief came and told me and some other people the fire was contained, I left. I headed over to Coppell to see if their new rigs were in service. Having 3 stations I knew I would have a 33% chance of getting it right. So I went to Station 3 which is located next door to Town Hall. Good call since they were all there for classroom training apparently. Here are two of the four new rigs.
Coppell Engine 122

Front of E-122

Coppell Quint 121


Here are the rigs they replaced. (These photos were taken back in April 2011).


The last photo I caught was of Carrolton Engine 114 doing some sort of training at the high school football stadium.

That's all for now. Enjoy!!

The Captain is on the right track... Let me add though what is/was missing from this long discussed issue.... Which will absolutely shock everyone...
In reality this has exactly ZERO to do with Police Officers and Firemen.... That is correct... ZERO...
What is missed here that goes on every where else is that there are a******* in every line of work and that is what creates the issue. Cops and Firemen have been buddies for a century... It's just the jerks that screw it all up.

The thread has been restarted, ny10570 posted the video and hopefully it can be a good discussion that doesn't cross any lines.
We all have to remember something and that is this; we have members from different generations who confronted different circumstances (particularly in NYC) "back in the day."
We have to remember their perspective; just because it's not politically correct these days to talk the way some of our older members do, THEIR memories of how things were is really all they are expressing.
I learned a lesson here a long time ago; I'm never going to jump in and criticize police activity. It's not my area of knowledge, but I have learned quite a few things from our Brothers and Sisters in Blue.
The problems arise in the "cross-over" areas like pin jobs in NYC with basically two agencies operating. I think they've come a long way (but I don't work there so what do I really know) in cooperation on scene, and working for the same end; control and mitigation of emergencies.
But we must acknowledge there was a time, and there are active members who were there, when things weren't quite so cooperative. There was a Battle of The Badges.
Remembering the perspective of what a member experienced in their time on the job really helps us to understand "where they are coming from."
I know my good friend from Rescue 3 has stirred the pot here and pissed people off. In his mind, (I've talked with him as recently as today) he comes from the era when cops and firemen would come to near blows at pin jobs.
Thank goodness those days have passed. But it should not take away the credibility of a man's knowledge from his extremely active career, and the wisdom he has to offer.
We all have to GIVE A LITTLE, and things will be fine. I'm optimistic it can be done.

Thoughts and prayers to my fellow members on the East Coast. I know what you're about to go through, as in 1985 while in the Air Force I was stationed at Eglin AFB on the Gulf Coast of Florida. Hurricane Elena bounced around the Gulf of Mexico all Labor Day weekend, and finally made landfall near Biloxi, Mississippi with sustained winds of 115 mph. I managed a Red Cross evacuation center in the panhandle of Florida near the Alabama state line. I can still remember the howl of the wind and the slashing sideways rain.
Stay safe and take care of your families.
Duane

If there are too many cops on the Hudson, We could send the "extras" to Washington DC to relieve the FF's who are watching the hi-crime areas.
Now we can put the DC FF's back in ambulances where some think they belong.
Now we can send those ambulances to the Hudson River to handle he rise in boating accidents caused by the diminished police presence.
(Ha! You thought Barak Obama was the only one who could come up with plans like this.)

This thread has become a complete train wreck. You want to look away, but morbid curiosity gets the better of you!

Ok So they gave almost 2 whole pages. Another 40 or so and it could even be a good start.
It is not in the state curriculum, so your instructor "added it". So what did he skip? Most basic water rescue courses are 20 hours and that does not cover what was needed in this incident.
As it is the FF1 class only schedules 6-9 hours to cover the 15 hours of Hazmat Ops material in the class. So did you get even less of that to fit water rescue in or did it come from some other minor area, like firefighting?
Wow, some drills. If thats all it took why do we need formal courses for anything.
You do not even know what information you do not know, this is the problem with having only a minor exposure to a serious topic.

While the suicide is sad, it would have been even more tragic if additional people, especially rescuers, lost their lives trying to do something for which they are neither trained or equipped. It's more than department politics and it's more than the lack of training and equipment. It's the classic municipal gamble - we'll take our changes that nothing bad will happen rather than properly preparing for it. Now they're stuck with it.
What is the rescue plan for the San Francisco bay? Is there a plan? Is there any nearby department that has rescue capabilities for shallow water settings (the Coast Guard apparently couldn't get in because of the water depth). Where were the air assets from the bay area?
If they get sued they'll have a variety of defenses including that they can not be expected to do something for which they are not trained or equipped exposing themselves to the risk of death or injury. The city may have liability but I doubt it will extend to the individual responders - at least I hope it will not extend to them.
As we come into our "water season" and the rescue calls/drownings have already begun, it's a good time to ask what the plan is in your agency.

It doesn't say much for the reporters who didn't check to see that the city doesn't exist and the mayors name is SHIRLEY U. JEST ...... "I am serious and don't call me shirley "

**groans** Too many April Fool's Day "articles" on many many many websites that report news etc...
SOME might believe in this junk.

Paid Drivers (firefighters) 1915
At Main St & Stephenson Blvd.

Relief Engine Company #2. Last Meeting in the old town hall - 515 Main St.
(corner of Mechanics Street now Memorial Highway)
Prior to opening the new FD HQ on Church St. 11/14/1899

Enterprise Hook and Ladder
Station #1 192 Huguenot Street
Photos are from the Dominick Bruzzese collection

Sign on our 1894 Chemical Tank. Located in the lobby of Fire Headquarters. 90 Beaufort Place

Squad opposite Fire HQ on Church St.
Note the 2 deck guns

Ladder 1

Lang Bldg Fire, 1905
South East Corner of Main Street & North Avenue

Engine #5 (Webster Avenue)

Chief Walter Bell

Early Chiefs Car infront of Fire HQ on Church Street.

Early Ladder 1

Ladder 2 (Webster Avenue)

The Emergency Squad with minimum manning
Note: I should have shown this pic in the thread about tire chains

Early Fire Prevention Efforts

Olympia Hose Company

WOW !! Old CD-3. George Kusterer, John Hill, Brother Magnotta and I put the inside of that together.

Huguenot St near Cedar St. 1910
NRFDLT's was in the "jump seat"...lol

Ladder 1 on Huguenot St. 1960's picture
The building in the backround was torn down to become parcel 1a (now Trump Tower)

Downing Building Fire Nov, 10 1917
Huguenot and Lawton Sts
These 3 photos are from the Dominick Bruzzese collection

Probie Class 1986
In this photo: , Marc Burrell, Tom Moriarity, Kevin Ferguson, Mike Johnson, Joe Narciso, David Mclean, Marty Gotte & Mark Mclean

Add a description
American LaFrance Type 31 2-wheel front-drive tractor 75' ladder, Factory Photo prior to delievery to NRFD
The Type 31 was manufactured between 1915-1929
Photo from the colection of John Maguire

April 1885 Relief Engine Company NRFD Medal
Photo Credit John Maguire

1980's L13, This unit was on loan from FDNY (NYC)Seagrave 100' rear mount. Note: the "phone" booth on the right side. NYC needed it for extra seating.
This unit was used in a commercial for "responding to freezer burn" and the vehicle was painted blue.
Photo Credit John Maguire

1962 Maxim 100' Tiller L-12
Photo from the colection of John Maguire

Las Vegas FD Specialized Units...
Photo Number 1-LVFD Emergency Command Center-2004 Pierce Lance
Photo Number 2-LVFD Heavy Rescue 44-2008 Pierce Quantum
Photo Number 3-LVFD Haz Mat 3-2001 Pierce Quantum
Photo Number 4-LVFD Air Resource Unit 10-2002 Pierce Saber

Las Vegas FD Trucks...
Photo Number 1-LVFD Truck 3-2001 Pierce Quantum 100' Tractor Drawn Aerial
Photo Number 2-LVFD Truck 1-2001 Pierce Quantum 100' Tower Platform
Photo Number 3-LVFD Truck 48-2001 Pierce Quantum 100' Tractor Drawn Aerial