dashield

Date: 7-24-11

Time: 0440hrs

Location: 121 Gidney Avenue

Frequency: 154.340

Units Operating: Engine 1, 3, 10 Truck 1, 10

Mutual Aid Units: Air Guard Engine 11 (FAST), Middle Hope Engine & Coldenham Truck Stand By

Weather Conditions: Hot & Humid

Description Of Incident: Dispatched to an Alarm of Fire, upon arrival units found a two story wood frame with heavy fire throughout the first floor and exterior front porch.

We have a 09 Pierce Tower and we have had nothing but problems with it. Every sensor or "automatic feature" has needed to be replaced/adjusted/repaired. Personally, I would get rid of every sensor and "automatic feature" and let the operator have full control of the appartus like the older trucks had. It is pretty bad when the "automatic stow feature" strikes the side of the cradle every time it stows the ladder......

Was Beacon first-due?????

Has NY State adopted NFPA 1? This and specific state law in Maine allows the Fire Chief to conducted warrantless searches for dangerous building conditions to ensure the safety of the citizens.

The first line of this law is: "The building official, the fire inspector and the municipal fire officers of any city or town may at all reasonable hours, for the purpose of examination, enter into and upon all buildings and premises within their jurisdiction."

There is also a law addressing "Refusing admission to a building official."

Another addresses the State Fire Marshal's and Public Safety inspectors ability to enter and inspect "whenever they determine it necessary" for the purpose of enforcing codes/laws/ordinances adopted by the Commissioner of Pubic Safety.

Again, these are Maine laws, not NY. Though I'd be surprised if NY didn't have some similar language protecting building officials and fire inspectors.

NYS does not use NFPA 1.... NYS has adopted and utilizes the New York State version of the International Building/Fire code. outside of obtaining a search warrant, a code enforcement official has no legal right to enter a 1 or 2 family residence if the owner of the property refuses or denies entry. There are circumstances, in which a code enforcement official may have access if the house is in control of the fire department while they are operating at a scene of a call.

Although it says "part II" this is the first video

The second video

I believe that the MLSS agreement with the city is informal and they do not get paid by the city. It is, in general, a money losing agreement. As someone already pointed out, most are under/uninsured.

I personally find it hard to believe that MLSS does not make any money in Newburgh. Lets be honest, MLSS is a privately owned BUSINESS. What business would stay in a market in which they don't make anything to cover their cost to operate. I am sure they cover there operational costs through medicare/medicaid.

To give some background information, this thread stems from an incident that happened in Orange County. Basically, a fire department had, as its SOG's not to roll to MVA's unless confirmed entrapment or fire. This area had a report of a car into the woods, but no confirmed entrapment. As per SOG, only PD and EMS were sent. Upon arriving on scene they found a patient (later determined to be DOA) entrapped in the vehicle. This resulted in a delayed dispatch of FD.

I am an Assistant Chief in the above mentioned department... To give a little insight on this post our Department runs an average of 450-500 calls a year (no EMS). As long as I have remembered we only respond to MVA's in which we are requested or if their is a report of entrapment, fire, wires down or other possible need for FD. I would only assume the reason we started this "protocol" was to cut down on calls in which our services are not required.

We do this with CO calls as well.....going back 10-15 years ago when the big headlines in the news were death contributed to Carbon Monoxide every one started (rightfully so) installing CO detectors in there houses). No long after that there was a huge increase of calls for CO detectors sounding, to the point that a night did not go by without getting dispatched to at least 1 CO detector sounding. Naturally, our turnout for these calls started to rapidly decrease. To address this problem a new dispatching protocol was created in which a chief officer would only be dispatched to respond to a report of a CO detector sounding with no one in the residence complaining of any symptoms. If there is a report of symptoms or an automatic CO alarm the entire department is dispatched out. This seems to work good for us and saves the guys from responding to a couple of calls.

With MVA’s our department is predominantly dispatched by the town Police Department so the dispatchers decide based on call information if the FD might be required. So unless they get a report of “serious mva”, entrapment, report of fire or some other unusual circumstance they do not dispatch us. For fluid on the roadway it is in the town code that in order to tow in the town all tow trucks must carry a minimum amount of speedy dry to handle the run of the mill anti-freeze or oil on the roadway. Anything unordinary the FD will respond. From personal experience, as a past police officer in the town (prior to switching careers and going to the FD) the last thing I wanted at an accident scene if they were not required was the fire department. If the FD was needed I would be the first one to call them but if they are not needed at the scene I did not want them there. The town “volunteer” (mostly paid) ambulance corp responds to MVA’s with two ambulances and usually two medic fly cars so on the EMS side of things no help is needed.

I will be the first to admit that their have been sporadic problems in the past when we should have been dispatched but were not (usually it has personnel issue). The protocol that is in place works for us, it might not work for your department but for us it saves us from a couple hundred more calls a year (especially when our services is not required).

Newburgh will continue to use Mutual Aid from the nearby Air National Guard Fire Department at Stewart AFB. I don't believe that the "US Government" can really refuse to respond to a Mutual Aid Request. My understanding is that this practice to call in the ANG from Stewart AFB has been going on for years. As long as Newburgh has this "out" they will continue to take adavantage of it. Sad Politics up in Newburgh indeed.

The problem with Air National Guard is that they call their sole structural Engine Out of Service daily as well as their FAST team so they can't be called for mutual aid. The reason I was told that they do this is when their manning falls below a certain level they do not want to leave the airport understaffed.

Truckiehand.......We are all trying to get picked up by any department but as of yet no one has been hired, if any place is hiring send me a PM.

Are they still planning on closing Engine 3 house?

Yes......we will be going down to 1 & 1 with the closing of 3 Engine

Does Newburgh have a minimum staffing level defined in their contract? What I mean is, the city lays off 12 guys, but the contract states "X" amount of FF's must be on duty at all times. So they have to hire back FF's on OT. So they save money here but spend it over there. Of course then they will blame the fire department for having so much overtime, forgetting they cut the staffing levels. Will they really save any money??? (That is of course there is language in the contract stating this.)

Currently their is no minimum manning clause in our contract. We are currently trying to negotiate a new contract which includes over 1 million dollars in concessions (which includes: salary cuts, schedule changes, loss of a couple of holidays, give back of HR time.....ect) If signed, the new contract will have a manning clause which would save the 12 guys.

As far as the volunteers....we have gotten the verbal commitment from numerous (of course not all) surrounding depts stating that they will not go into the city if the layoffs occur.

If anyone is hiring please let me know...

Mayor of Newburgh stating that the loss of an engine Company will not affect response

You have to listen to the mayor also stating that they can use mutual aid.... I have some news for you Mr Mayor, the surrounding volunteer departmenst WILL NOT tolerate being used in place of 12 laid off members.

So that would leave 1 Engine, 1 Ladder, and 1 Chief in service per tour?

That s correct, if the layoffs happen as planned newburgh will be down to 1 & 1 with a chief.

Does Newburgh even have 12 guys per shift?

No....we have 10 per shift, minimum staffing is 3 per apparatus with a chief. 12 Layoffs will eliminate an engine company

hey dashield;

that idiot here, the red circle you have is that their logo you speak of ??? I looked through the attached link and was a bit confused, and unsure.... I for one like the idea of the actual " Haverstraw logo " everyone knows what that is suggesting, and warns me that the structure in question has trusses in them.... so I would figure its every where.... floors and roof....

I guess a more proper term would be "firefighter proof".... If you were not educated about the NYS truss signage I could understand where the Haverstraw sign might be easier to understand. I am assuming that the Haverstraw sign was developed before NYS adopted their truss signage law in 2007.

With five minutes of education on the NYS truss signage regulation, any firefighter should have absolutely no problem reading any sign. To go along with keeping everything "firefighter proof" by keeping everything standard, and following the NYS truss signage regulation, a firefighter from Long Island can be in Buffalo and see the same sign and know that it means the same exact thing.

The major problem I have with this regulation is that it is only applicable on new construction. Fortunately, after educating building owners why this signage is important many existing buildings also display truss signage.

The Town of Haverstraw sign is okay but in my opinion the standard that the New York State Fire Code adopted is alot better, truss signage. Not only does it label for trusses but it also identifies where they are in the building, roof of floor, and it also make it idiot proof determining the construction type of the building.

Here are a few that seem to never get old.....

Place ketchup packets between the toilet seat and the top of the bowl, so when someone sits down they explode....

Use scoth tape to tape the kitchen sprayer so when one of your unsuspecting coworkers turn the faucet on they get blasted.

Put grease on every door handle imaginable...

If you usually keep your coffee mugs in the kitchen cabinet upside down fill the "top" of the bottom of the mugs with water. So whenever someone takes a mug down they get a small bath.

Bring a hook

One of the first thing you hear on the radio right after the fire is knocked down is "we need a hook". As you get off the rig and you take your assigned tools, grab an extra hook or two and leave them near the door of the building before you go in.

Knife

Have you ever gone into your pocket to grab your knife only to find that either it is not there (because the firehouse fairy "borrowed it") or it is covered with tar from the time you used it??? Try carrying a razor blade, it's cheap (so it's less appealing to the firehouse fairy) and the blades are easily swapped out so you can always ensure that your will have a sharp blade.

I agree this is the kind of talk that should be on this site, not my truck is bigger than your truck bullshit.

Does anyone have any experience with the CMC Rescue School? I am looking into attending the Rope Rescue I/II during the 2010 year. Can anyone pass on any information....

So that would mean the City of Newburgh would run with just one engine and one truck?

That's insane!

That would be correct, 1 Engine uptown, 1 Truck downtown....... With three on each!

The City of Newburgh City Council is now proposing laying of eight guys, on top of already slashing four vacant spot, and shutting down an Engine company. We will officially know on Monday evening, with that in mind does anyone know of any departments that are hiring right now??? I have already sent me resume out in departments in Dutchess and Westchester but nothing looks promising...

Any help would be appreciated......

Support Newburgh Fire Department to Prevent Layoffs!!!!!

Watch the attached Public Safety Announcement.....

Newburgh is 100% paid, we run about 3000 calls with 2 & 1.

On a second alarm mutual aid will be called which will provide stand-by companies and a FAST company to the scene.

Looks like Newburgh will be doing layoffs, does anybody know if there are any departments in Westchester or Dutchess County who will hire laid off guys as transfers??????

I got to see a City of Newburgh GK engine up close the other day. They seem to be a very well built truck and a company that stands by their work. Its nice to see these small outfits doing well.

I asked the Newburgh guys, including a Chief, Captain and driver, how they liked their GK's. They said theyve been great, with no real problems. Lets face it, Newburgh runs the hell out of their rigs, they're definately not sitting for very long. If they can take the beating in Newburgh, from going on several runs a tour, driving on some crappy N'Burgh roads and being pumped alot, then im sure they'd be great for smaller, less active depts. Thats exactly what i said to the Newburgh guys to; you must look at busy depts to see what they have to say about their apparatus and how they hold up. Its great that some depts can buy $600k + pumpers and be happy with them, but all that $ and how much to they get worked?

Anybody know price ranges for the GK's? Such as Newburgh or Poughkeepsies engines?

When I go back in to work on Wed I will find out what the price was for both of them. In my opinion you can't beat the spartan chasis the only problems we have is the alternator shits teh bed every few months.