M' Ave

Best way to get into a house that might otherwise be too busy for visitors? Knock with your elbows. Haven't met a crew of firemen yet that was too busy for a box of cannoli.

Trains stop at "Stations", we work in fireHOUSES
If you had a poor experience at any of the shops you visited, that's a shame. Remember, ya never know what kinda day they were having and sometimes the revolving door of visitors is hard to deal with. I'm not regularly assigned to work in Midtown, but I have on occasion and while everyone's happy to chat and entertain visitors, it's hard to get other work done and sometimes it's overwhelming.
I'm not trying to dissuade visitors, we welcome it. Shame there was a bad experience, ya just never know how that day was going...
As for the NYPost article, correct, the member quoted was not a "Probie". The NYPost, journalistic beacon of integrity, took some posts from the "FDNYRant" (which is the worst thing ever) for that article and called them "quotes".
All in all, some guys are not happy with the Open House, and I understand it, but it's a couple of hours for some positive PR on a Saturday. We'll live.

Ya know....yeah, it usually is. When you're in Westchester County, you're living in someone's little fiefdom. Someone's little slice of the pie and it's a ridiculous exercise in redundancy. I'm paying my property tax bill (which is insanely high) and wondering why they're always asking for more money, but there are fewer cops and the roads are like the surface of the moon.
Too many Chief's, not enough Indians.....lets streamline the operations around here and put our money and manpower to better use.
It's all about ratio's with the fire service. We DO have some good resources here, so lets expand their scope of coverage and better utilize them. We could use an analogy that would apply to many volunteer departments around here:
Lets say Dept. A has 5, reliable and involved members and that department answers 2 calls a day. Dept. B next door also has 5 reliable and involved members answering 2 calls a day. Well, 5 guys is useless...and those guys would probably jump at the opportunity to do more with their dedication. So, COMBINE those depts. and you've got 10 solid guys handling 4 calls a day. You've doubled your available manpower and simultaneously increased staff utilization by 100%. In the process, you could eliminate half the chief's and their vehicles, probably a firehouse to maintain and a redundant vehicle or two.
But....that'll never happen, because everyone is too interested in protecting their slice of the pie....

Trains stop at "Stations", we work in fireHOUSES
If you had a poor experience at any of the shops you visited, that's a shame. Remember, ya never know what kinda day they were having and sometimes the revolving door of visitors is hard to deal with. I'm not regularly assigned to work in Midtown, but I have on occasion and while everyone's happy to chat and entertain visitors, it's hard to get other work done and sometimes it's overwhelming.
I'm not trying to dissuade visitors, we welcome it. Shame there was a bad experience, ya just never know how that day was going...
As for the NYPost article, correct, the member quoted was not a "Probie". The NYPost, journalistic beacon of integrity, took some posts from the "FDNYRant" (which is the worst thing ever) for that article and called them "quotes".
All in all, some guys are not happy with the Open House, and I understand it, but it's a couple of hours for some positive PR on a Saturday. We'll live.

Ya know....yeah, it usually is. When you're in Westchester County, you're living in someone's little fiefdom. Someone's little slice of the pie and it's a ridiculous exercise in redundancy. I'm paying my property tax bill (which is insanely high) and wondering why they're always asking for more money, but there are fewer cops and the roads are like the surface of the moon.
Too many Chief's, not enough Indians.....lets streamline the operations around here and put our money and manpower to better use.
It's all about ratio's with the fire service. We DO have some good resources here, so lets expand their scope of coverage and better utilize them. We could use an analogy that would apply to many volunteer departments around here:
Lets say Dept. A has 5, reliable and involved members and that department answers 2 calls a day. Dept. B next door also has 5 reliable and involved members answering 2 calls a day. Well, 5 guys is useless...and those guys would probably jump at the opportunity to do more with their dedication. So, COMBINE those depts. and you've got 10 solid guys handling 4 calls a day. You've doubled your available manpower and simultaneously increased staff utilization by 100%. In the process, you could eliminate half the chief's and their vehicles, probably a firehouse to maintain and a redundant vehicle or two.
But....that'll never happen, because everyone is too interested in protecting their slice of the pie....

Trains stop at "Stations", we work in fireHOUSES
If you had a poor experience at any of the shops you visited, that's a shame. Remember, ya never know what kinda day they were having and sometimes the revolving door of visitors is hard to deal with. I'm not regularly assigned to work in Midtown, but I have on occasion and while everyone's happy to chat and entertain visitors, it's hard to get other work done and sometimes it's overwhelming.
I'm not trying to dissuade visitors, we welcome it. Shame there was a bad experience, ya just never know how that day was going...
As for the NYPost article, correct, the member quoted was not a "Probie". The NYPost, journalistic beacon of integrity, took some posts from the "FDNYRant" (which is the worst thing ever) for that article and called them "quotes".
All in all, some guys are not happy with the Open House, and I understand it, but it's a couple of hours for some positive PR on a Saturday. We'll live.

Ya know....yeah, it usually is. When you're in Westchester County, you're living in someone's little fiefdom. Someone's little slice of the pie and it's a ridiculous exercise in redundancy. I'm paying my property tax bill (which is insanely high) and wondering why they're always asking for more money, but there are fewer cops and the roads are like the surface of the moon.
Too many Chief's, not enough Indians.....lets streamline the operations around here and put our money and manpower to better use.
It's all about ratio's with the fire service. We DO have some good resources here, so lets expand their scope of coverage and better utilize them. We could use an analogy that would apply to many volunteer departments around here:
Lets say Dept. A has 5, reliable and involved members and that department answers 2 calls a day. Dept. B next door also has 5 reliable and involved members answering 2 calls a day. Well, 5 guys is useless...and those guys would probably jump at the opportunity to do more with their dedication. So, COMBINE those depts. and you've got 10 solid guys handling 4 calls a day. You've doubled your available manpower and simultaneously increased staff utilization by 100%. In the process, you could eliminate half the chief's and their vehicles, probably a firehouse to maintain and a redundant vehicle or two.
But....that'll never happen, because everyone is too interested in protecting their slice of the pie....

Trains stop at "Stations", we work in fireHOUSES
If you had a poor experience at any of the shops you visited, that's a shame. Remember, ya never know what kinda day they were having and sometimes the revolving door of visitors is hard to deal with. I'm not regularly assigned to work in Midtown, but I have on occasion and while everyone's happy to chat and entertain visitors, it's hard to get other work done and sometimes it's overwhelming.
I'm not trying to dissuade visitors, we welcome it. Shame there was a bad experience, ya just never know how that day was going...
As for the NYPost article, correct, the member quoted was not a "Probie". The NYPost, journalistic beacon of integrity, took some posts from the "FDNYRant" (which is the worst thing ever) for that article and called them "quotes".
All in all, some guys are not happy with the Open House, and I understand it, but it's a couple of hours for some positive PR on a Saturday. We'll live.

Ya know....yeah, it usually is. When you're in Westchester County, you're living in someone's little fiefdom. Someone's little slice of the pie and it's a ridiculous exercise in redundancy. I'm paying my property tax bill (which is insanely high) and wondering why they're always asking for more money, but there are fewer cops and the roads are like the surface of the moon.
Too many Chief's, not enough Indians.....lets streamline the operations around here and put our money and manpower to better use.
It's all about ratio's with the fire service. We DO have some good resources here, so lets expand their scope of coverage and better utilize them. We could use an analogy that would apply to many volunteer departments around here:
Lets say Dept. A has 5, reliable and involved members and that department answers 2 calls a day. Dept. B next door also has 5 reliable and involved members answering 2 calls a day. Well, 5 guys is useless...and those guys would probably jump at the opportunity to do more with their dedication. So, COMBINE those depts. and you've got 10 solid guys handling 4 calls a day. You've doubled your available manpower and simultaneously increased staff utilization by 100%. In the process, you could eliminate half the chief's and their vehicles, probably a firehouse to maintain and a redundant vehicle or two.
But....that'll never happen, because everyone is too interested in protecting their slice of the pie....

Trains stop at "Stations", we work in fireHOUSES
If you had a poor experience at any of the shops you visited, that's a shame. Remember, ya never know what kinda day they were having and sometimes the revolving door of visitors is hard to deal with. I'm not regularly assigned to work in Midtown, but I have on occasion and while everyone's happy to chat and entertain visitors, it's hard to get other work done and sometimes it's overwhelming.
I'm not trying to dissuade visitors, we welcome it. Shame there was a bad experience, ya just never know how that day was going...
As for the NYPost article, correct, the member quoted was not a "Probie". The NYPost, journalistic beacon of integrity, took some posts from the "FDNYRant" (which is the worst thing ever) for that article and called them "quotes".
All in all, some guys are not happy with the Open House, and I understand it, but it's a couple of hours for some positive PR on a Saturday. We'll live.

Ya know....yeah, it usually is. When you're in Westchester County, you're living in someone's little fiefdom. Someone's little slice of the pie and it's a ridiculous exercise in redundancy. I'm paying my property tax bill (which is insanely high) and wondering why they're always asking for more money, but there are fewer cops and the roads are like the surface of the moon.
Too many Chief's, not enough Indians.....lets streamline the operations around here and put our money and manpower to better use.
It's all about ratio's with the fire service. We DO have some good resources here, so lets expand their scope of coverage and better utilize them. We could use an analogy that would apply to many volunteer departments around here:
Lets say Dept. A has 5, reliable and involved members and that department answers 2 calls a day. Dept. B next door also has 5 reliable and involved members answering 2 calls a day. Well, 5 guys is useless...and those guys would probably jump at the opportunity to do more with their dedication. So, COMBINE those depts. and you've got 10 solid guys handling 4 calls a day. You've doubled your available manpower and simultaneously increased staff utilization by 100%. In the process, you could eliminate half the chief's and their vehicles, probably a firehouse to maintain and a redundant vehicle or two.
But....that'll never happen, because everyone is too interested in protecting their slice of the pie....

I think the concern about Mutual Aide is less about the frequency of use, or the lopsided nature of M/A (requesting more than responding) than it is about being properly prepared for most incidents.
If Mount Vernon requests M/A twice as often, so-be-it. Maybe they've had a rash of large multi-alarm fires. (This is all hypothetical) That to me doesn't seem like the issue. The real issue rests in whether or not a Fire Department can handle the routine fires without constantly calling outside agencies. If an urban, city fire department can't handle an "All-Hands" or even 2nd alarm fire, without outside help....they're understaffed.
Mutual Aide should be reserved for extenuating circumstances. Multiple serious fires in remote locations, simultaneously or an unusual and extensive multi-alarm fire. Everyday operations or (i hate this term) "routine" fires should be able to be handled by that municipality. The members of FDMV (and any dept.) deserve to be properly staffed.
I'll also note that the # of apparatus responding isn't even remotely as important as the # of personnel. How many engines to you typically need to supply handlines at a private dwelling fire? Probably 1, but we'll say 2, just in case. Ladders? 2 trucks is probably sufficient to provide roof access and a second means of egress. It's the personnel carried by later arriving apparatus that is important, not the vehicles themselves. We'd all like to see more companies and more men, but I'll take more men and fewer companies if forced to choose.....

I think the concern about Mutual Aide is less about the frequency of use, or the lopsided nature of M/A (requesting more than responding) than it is about being properly prepared for most incidents.
If Mount Vernon requests M/A twice as often, so-be-it. Maybe they've had a rash of large multi-alarm fires. (This is all hypothetical) That to me doesn't seem like the issue. The real issue rests in whether or not a Fire Department can handle the routine fires without constantly calling outside agencies. If an urban, city fire department can't handle an "All-Hands" or even 2nd alarm fire, without outside help....they're understaffed.
Mutual Aide should be reserved for extenuating circumstances. Multiple serious fires in remote locations, simultaneously or an unusual and extensive multi-alarm fire. Everyday operations or (i hate this term) "routine" fires should be able to be handled by that municipality. The members of FDMV (and any dept.) deserve to be properly staffed.
I'll also note that the # of apparatus responding isn't even remotely as important as the # of personnel. How many engines to you typically need to supply handlines at a private dwelling fire? Probably 1, but we'll say 2, just in case. Ladders? 2 trucks is probably sufficient to provide roof access and a second means of egress. It's the personnel carried by later arriving apparatus that is important, not the vehicles themselves. We'd all like to see more companies and more men, but I'll take more men and fewer companies if forced to choose.....

I think the concern about Mutual Aide is less about the frequency of use, or the lopsided nature of M/A (requesting more than responding) than it is about being properly prepared for most incidents.
If Mount Vernon requests M/A twice as often, so-be-it. Maybe they've had a rash of large multi-alarm fires. (This is all hypothetical) That to me doesn't seem like the issue. The real issue rests in whether or not a Fire Department can handle the routine fires without constantly calling outside agencies. If an urban, city fire department can't handle an "All-Hands" or even 2nd alarm fire, without outside help....they're understaffed.
Mutual Aide should be reserved for extenuating circumstances. Multiple serious fires in remote locations, simultaneously or an unusual and extensive multi-alarm fire. Everyday operations or (i hate this term) "routine" fires should be able to be handled by that municipality. The members of FDMV (and any dept.) deserve to be properly staffed.
I'll also note that the # of apparatus responding isn't even remotely as important as the # of personnel. How many engines to you typically need to supply handlines at a private dwelling fire? Probably 1, but we'll say 2, just in case. Ladders? 2 trucks is probably sufficient to provide roof access and a second means of egress. It's the personnel carried by later arriving apparatus that is important, not the vehicles themselves. We'd all like to see more companies and more men, but I'll take more men and fewer companies if forced to choose.....

General rant not directed at any one municipality:
We had inadequate snow removal, potholes everywhere, understaffed and underfunded emergency services yet we live in the most expensive county in the stratosphere. Where is it all going ?

I think the concern about Mutual Aide is less about the frequency of use, or the lopsided nature of M/A (requesting more than responding) than it is about being properly prepared for most incidents.
If Mount Vernon requests M/A twice as often, so-be-it. Maybe they've had a rash of large multi-alarm fires. (This is all hypothetical) That to me doesn't seem like the issue. The real issue rests in whether or not a Fire Department can handle the routine fires without constantly calling outside agencies. If an urban, city fire department can't handle an "All-Hands" or even 2nd alarm fire, without outside help....they're understaffed.
Mutual Aide should be reserved for extenuating circumstances. Multiple serious fires in remote locations, simultaneously or an unusual and extensive multi-alarm fire. Everyday operations or (i hate this term) "routine" fires should be able to be handled by that municipality. The members of FDMV (and any dept.) deserve to be properly staffed.
I'll also note that the # of apparatus responding isn't even remotely as important as the # of personnel. How many engines to you typically need to supply handlines at a private dwelling fire? Probably 1, but we'll say 2, just in case. Ladders? 2 trucks is probably sufficient to provide roof access and a second means of egress. It's the personnel carried by later arriving apparatus that is important, not the vehicles themselves. We'd all like to see more companies and more men, but I'll take more men and fewer companies if forced to choose.....

I think the concern about Mutual Aide is less about the frequency of use, or the lopsided nature of M/A (requesting more than responding) than it is about being properly prepared for most incidents.
If Mount Vernon requests M/A twice as often, so-be-it. Maybe they've had a rash of large multi-alarm fires. (This is all hypothetical) That to me doesn't seem like the issue. The real issue rests in whether or not a Fire Department can handle the routine fires without constantly calling outside agencies. If an urban, city fire department can't handle an "All-Hands" or even 2nd alarm fire, without outside help....they're understaffed.
Mutual Aide should be reserved for extenuating circumstances. Multiple serious fires in remote locations, simultaneously or an unusual and extensive multi-alarm fire. Everyday operations or (i hate this term) "routine" fires should be able to be handled by that municipality. The members of FDMV (and any dept.) deserve to be properly staffed.
I'll also note that the # of apparatus responding isn't even remotely as important as the # of personnel. How many engines to you typically need to supply handlines at a private dwelling fire? Probably 1, but we'll say 2, just in case. Ladders? 2 trucks is probably sufficient to provide roof access and a second means of egress. It's the personnel carried by later arriving apparatus that is important, not the vehicles themselves. We'd all like to see more companies and more men, but I'll take more men and fewer companies if forced to choose.....

I think you mean "novel" idea, not "novice". Big difference.
As for YFD calling them out on it rather than severing all ties as you suggest, it's a better move. If they refuse to respond, as you suggest, nobody notices and they move on to the next town until someone does supplement Mount Vernon's woefully understaffed and overworked members. Calling attention to the problem, in the appropriate context, highlights the mayor's disregard for the department and does so at without the expense of safety or fire loss.
For years the county's mutual aid system has been a way of avoiding real responsibility and appropriate staffing. It's been brought out here many times and people have gone to great lengths to explain their position, including Yonkers FD. Some departments have relied on MA to cover their day to day business and MV is guilty of that. This is just the latest round in the battle.

I think we're all on the same page here about departments abusing mutual aid so I won't even touch that. But this quote is what worried me the most.
Really? I had no ideas fire worked that way. Apparently if a fire occurs in one town that makes it less likely for there to be another fire elsewhere. Amazing.

After that fatal fire in 1987,at the Schomberg Plaza towers in east Harlem,there was a heavy-duty investigation done. Soon after the fire was under control, the FDNY fire marshals went to the quarters of the administrative fire company whose district the building was in (Engine company 91). They went right to the building inspection folder to see if there were any outstanding fire violations or recent issues with inspections. Luckily the company commander (who was my first lieutenant as a probie) was a very smart and diligent officer.He had documented all the issues with the building, and had sent reports "downtown" and to the NYC Building dept.,concerning problems with the compactor chute.
BOTTOM LINE: When you do a fire prevention inspection on a building,and sign your name on the form, do it right. Cover your butt! You never know when there will be a fire or collapse or other emergency in that building in the future.

This building had a sad history, in 1987 a fire occurred in the compactor chute killing seven people, some jumped from as high as the 23rd floor into the street. This fire resulted in changes in high rise procedures, where the dispatchers radios or MDT"s to responding or .on scene units the apartments number that called requesting assistance and that unit must be checked out. . At this fire folks in distress where assured that the FD was on scene not knowing the fire had jumped 20 floors over them, Heavy fire load in the compactor ,coupled with a missing chute door and inadequate fireproofing around the chute.too skimpy to prevent the fire .from extending to combustibles in dwelling units abutting the wall covering the chute.
The Schomberg Plaza fire in 1987 was one of the most important high rise incidents and produced many lessons learned and also a big lesson in Mitchell Llama construction

Too true. I work in an area where there are some highrises, mostly NYCHA buildings. You do end up with some wild scenarios and you need A LOT of manpower. I was at a fire a few years ago where the fire was in one unit on the 5th floor with minor auto exposure on the 6th.....there was a fatality on the 21st fl. Smoke permeated throughout due to some odd ball Federal building standards and what not.....crazy stuff.

Too true. I work in an area where there are some highrises, mostly NYCHA buildings. You do end up with some wild scenarios and you need A LOT of manpower. I was at a fire a few years ago where the fire was in one unit on the 5th floor with minor auto exposure on the 6th.....there was a fatality on the 21st fl. Smoke permeated throughout due to some odd ball Federal building standards and what not.....crazy stuff.

Too true. I work in an area where there are some highrises, mostly NYCHA buildings. You do end up with some wild scenarios and you need A LOT of manpower. I was at a fire a few years ago where the fire was in one unit on the 5th floor with minor auto exposure on the 6th.....there was a fatality on the 21st fl. Smoke permeated throughout due to some odd ball Federal building standards and what not.....crazy stuff.

Just reading this I am VERY glad that the tallest building in my town is four stories.
Whole different kind a firefighting.