FDMV and MA

[Guest]

I don't want to start a whole new b**** session, but I think this is exactly the situation the IAFF should step in on. All these Southern Westchester departments love their parent union, and their efforts to eliminate vollies, but I haven't seen them doing much to help their brothers in MV. There was a short stint of brothers protesting on FDMV's behalf, but that ended a long time ago. Somebody has to go to bat for the men in MV, before someone ends up dead.

[jloftus 28]

This will be my last post ( MAYBE)

I was 1st. Vice-President for ten months and worked on this issue and others and here's the deal

Meeting with Senator Klien 34th. district, I gave him a power point presentation regarding manpower, and Chief Henry Campbell's proposed manning from 1993 to 2000, if followed the Mt. Vernon fire dept. today would have 31 ff and officers working per tour.

At my second call to the Senator I was told by him that our current Chief says there is no problem.............

Mailed Senator Shummer on this problem and the lack of equipment.

No response.

And for the media YOUR GONNA LOVE THIS

Until someone dies ( firefighter or civilian ) this topic is not gonna make news in todays world ( IRAQ, GAS SHORTAGE, KATRINA ETC.)

So where do you go???

Thats why the post so I can get other communities to talk about this situation that does impact them and maybe here lies the answer.

Thanks for all the post and I hope you tell some one who cares or matters.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Maybe talk to mutual depts. Have them respond as needed,but for alarms that Mt Vernon could have covered by itself(if everything is working/fully staffed) then have those fepts. submit bills to the city of Mt Venon for fuel , and manpower. Granted if M/A is needed, i.e multiple alarms, then no bill. Get the parent union involved see if they have better luck with the media.

[4truck48 25]

Lets be honest here, really honest. There is only one department in Westchester with proper manpower on their apparatus, Yonkers, it's just that MT Vernon gets more fires then everbody else { White Plains, NewRochelle and Greenburgh } and is exposed more. If these other departments had the same workload as Mt. Vernon they would have the same problem. The whole system has to change. There is enough blame to go around for everbody but nobody wants to correct the problem because we all have our own little Kingdoms. The Chiefs, the Fire Commisoners and even the unions should be demanding change but that might mean giving up some power. It's time for a regional department in southern weschester with properly staffed apparatus not one man tower ladders or three man engines. Don't blame Mt Vernon for this mess it's everybody's problem.

[Guest]

First in line, hats off to all the firefighters in Mount Vernon who try to do the best they can with what little they have. Those of you firefighter that have stuck through the thick of it there deserve a pat on the back (at least).

Second, to whom stated that this was becoming an FDMV bash board, get off your righteous horse and come to the realization that no one here is bashing the department. If you're a firefighter with FDMV the shame on you for jumping to conclusions.

Third, FD recives it's budgets through the city if I am correct to belive. It is city government's lack of caring and knowledge that continue putting FDMV on the chopping block. It doesn't, and is trully dispicable that the citizens of Mount Vernon do not take a stand on this issue and voice their fears to city council.

Fourth, the union really needs to take a pulic approach to this matter. A publicity campaign if you will. Media is the gateway to results. If the "Honorable" Ernie Davis is too ignorant (which he is) to listen to the Fire Department, media coverage will sure make him think twice about giving you guys the shaft.

Fifth, where is FDMV's fire commisioner in all this. It seems that he isn't taking an active role (as he should) to fight for what is needed. If that is trully the case, maybe time for change in leadership. If that's not the case, then he should step up to the spotlight.

Public education and awareness is everything. These brief ctories on news 12 aren't cutting it. Pagano (YFD) took advantage of media ops because it guaruntees results, exposure, etc.

Again to the firefighters of FDMV, I applaud you.

[Guest]

Staffing is the toughest issue that fire department management faces. Short staffing along with budgetary restrictions are common. I am sure that the issues and the solutions are different for every department. In my town, we were fortunate enough to get five adds to staff for the coming fiscal year at a time when other town budgets were cut. It took a huge amount of lobbying. I can tell you what made it work for our town:

1. We are a combination department. The chief, volunteers and the union were unified in letting town leadership know that we supported adds to staff. Key to this is that the support was from the chief on down.

2. We had a very detailed argument showing both the benefits to residents and improvement to our safety.

3. The chief, the fire commission and members of the local formed a staffing committee. We ran numerous staffing budget hypotheticals which were used as a basis in our presentations. We met individually and in small groups with members of the Town Council, Board of Finance, and Selectmen to state our case. We were able to develop advocates at every level who behind closed doors supported our cause. This helped when we had to lobby for staffing increases in the public budget meetings. These meetings took the better part of a year. The folks holding the purse strings learned a lot about firefighting, water supply, ISO, call volume, overtime, etc. Having an educated government certainly made the difference between success and failure.

4. We used the local print media in a positive way to get our case out to the public. When things are in the public eye, it makes it easier for politicians to do the right thing.

5. We were never adversarial with Town Hall.

My last comment, it is fine to work with mutual aid, but it is unfair to the taxpayers of the surrounding towns for the politicians in Mt. Vernon to ride on the backs of taxpayers in the mutual aid communities. Maybe mutual aid agreements should be revisited? When a mutual aid engine isn't coming at the drop of a hat, that will emphasise the need to get staffing to the level that it needs to be.

Good luck and be safe!

[Guest]

The problem is you can't shame that Mayor. Like he once said " It's either Guns or Butter" with the FD. Yeah that made alot of sense!

[calhobs 110]

How about we flood, News 12,2,4,5,7,9,11, Journal News, Daily News, NY Times, and News Day, and Andy SPano with emails on the problems our Brothers in Mount Vernon are having, We are 4,000 strong and we vote maybe we can help by doing this.

[27east 19]

Ernie is going nowhere; problems number 1. that means the same for the foot doctor.

Like someone else posted...no one thinks it will be their house or whatever...but sometimes it is. and until it happens to someone important enough who actually cares, they are not going to care that it is New Ro, Yonkers, Pelham, the Manor, Eastchester, Fairview, Greenvile (sorry if I left anyone out) that shows up because FDMV is out on a job that they could handle no sweat if they had rigs that worked and enough firefighters.

GO FDMV!

STAY STRONG!

and

STAY UNITED!

[lad12derff 283]

We need to get rid of mutual aid period. When you call another city/town to cover yours, you need to be charged for the time and resources. If other cities/towns are willing to provide their own citizens with the right manning and equiptment then why should they be paying for others that choose not to. The unions need to get together with the bean counters in a formal summit with the press involved and hash this out. It is not anybody elses fault other than the abusers and the ones who cover and don't stand up like pagano did. We give you 4 and 4 so that's what we want in return. We will not stand by in qtrs if you are not sending us to the job and not calling back off duty members. And for the record I am not on YFD I am with NRFD.

[Guest]

We need to get rid of mutual aid period. When you call another city/town to cover yours, you need to be charged for the time and resources. If other cities/towns are willing to provide their own citizens with the right manning and equiptment then why should they be paying for others that choose not to. The unions need to get together with the bean counters in a formal summit with the press involved and hash this out. It is not anybody elses fault other than the abusers and the ones who cover and don't stand up like pagano did. We give you 4 and 4 so that's what we want in return. We will not stand by in qtrs if you are not sending us to the job and not calling back off duty members. And for the record I am not on YFD I am with NRFD.

←

That's what I like to hear FDNR! All you need to do now is get your Union and Top Brass on board and maybe the surrounding Depts., that constantly respond in on M/A to the Vern will follow suit. I know for a fact that FDMV is getting tired of every Job in their City turning into a Buff Tatoo.

[jloftus 28]

Bless ya Capt415

[Guest]

Mutual Aid is designed for the big ones-period!

If your FD can't handle bread and butter fires W/o calling in mutual aid, your abusing it. If New Rochelle does what Yonkers did (lower themselves on the M/A

list) the Mayor of Mt. Vernon might be forced to begin properly staffing his fd.

[Guest]

And how are the members "limited"? Isn't there a union? Can't you guys fight for whats right? Can't the members band together? If you hate the job so much, why not quit or transfer? What do you define as "abusing mutual aid"? Whats wrong with communities with limited resources, as are many in that area, working together more?

One would also think that buying three new apparatus is a step in the right direction, yet thats still criticized.

Awsome Points made above.....As said in previous posts FDMV has trouble with manpower ... how could this be true, when 1 group of men just graduated from the fire academy and 1 group is in right now.. People need to check their sourses before posting things that are not true.

[gss131 212]

Maybe the ISO needs to be told whats going on .If the insurance companies that set their rates acording to the rating really aren't getting their worth when companys are put out of service for complete tours because of either light crews or broken rigs ,maybe they have the power to strongarm the city.

[TimesUp 148]

Juice, I would have to say that just about all the facts Mt. vernon guys have stated are true. The past few classes just filled vacancies that have been open for a while. As far as solving a manning issue, it has'nt done that. Don't be so quick to question someone's character.

[jloftus 28]

Three rigs that are 10 years to late is not gonna cut it, besides you need men in those rigs.

And the kids being hired are also filling slots that were open or guys retired.

I'm trying not being critical but after such a long time with no one trying to do the right thng it gets to ya.

[Guest]

Juice, I would have to say that just about all the facts Mt. vernon guys have stated are true.  The past few classes just filled vacancies that have been open for a while.  As far as solving a manning issue, it has'nt done that.  Don't be so quick to question someone's character.

←

How would you know thats all the facts stated are true.. Are you a member of FDMV? Even if the past few classes have just filled vacancies, they are still men out on the line , helping to get the job done.

[Lucifer 6]

To the members coming in on mutual aid, here's another thing to keep in the back of your mind. If MV's current numbers are so inadequate (and they are); then why when all MV units are at a job, is a mutual aid standby level of protection of only 1&1 acceptable?? 2 weeks ago, M/A CO's caught a 2nd job and initially showed up with 4 FF's a LT and a Chief. Ludicrust! MV units became available from the 1st job and responded, but what if they couldn't? The M/A units could have been in a heap of s--t! Please be careful!

Edited April 26, 2006 by Lucifer

[gss131 212]

How would you know thats all the facts stated are true.. Are you a member of FDMV? Even if the past few classes have just filled vacancies, they are still men out on the line , helping to get the job done.

←

I am not from MV. but I am from Yonkers,I can tell you these guys have a huge fire load ,and they bust their a** ALL the time.But when is enough enough.When you are calling departments to cover your houses on a single alarm because the rigs are understaffed and they need everybody they can get there is something wrong. I have the utmost respect for these guys ,but their mayor is playing his chances and hopefully the department or the citizens dont pay the price.

[TimesUp 148]

How would you know thats all the facts stated are true.. Are you a member of FDMV? Even if the past few classes have just filled vacancies, they are still men out on the line , helping to get the job done.

←

Who are you to say otherwise....do you work for the fd? I do. You only have two post and they both have to do with questioning members post. What's your story? Maybe you would like to shed some light on the situation. As stated before all the previous post are right on the mark.

Edited April 26, 2006 by ltrob

[Guest]

Who are you to say otherwise....do you work for the fd? I do.  You only have two post and they both have to do with questioning members post.  What's your story?  Maybe you would like to shed some light on the situation.  As stated before all the previous post are right on the mark.

←

If all the previous posts are on the mark, you mean to tell me that all these probies that are hired are not doing anything to help with the manpower situations. I find that very hard to believe

[IzzyEng4 427]

Ok I wasn't going to commet but I have too. Just because that a whole slew of probies graduate from an academy doesn't mean that all the positions are filled. I see it with CSP where I work with all the fields, troopers, dispatchers, clerks, et. al.

I don't know much about FDMV but I know that a lot of there positions have been slashed over the years and that many slots were available not filled. Why? Hate to say it but it is cheeper to pay OT than it is to hire a new worker (salary, benifits, health care and retirment all cost a lot more in the long run than OT). Politicians look at numbers and look for an easy way out.

Who here doesn't beleive that a fire department on a first alarm, especially a career department, should be able to handle at least a two-alarm fire, minus FAST, with ther own personnel and equipment? There are NFPA staffing standards that at least 75 % of the FDs in American do not meet. Also not fully staffing a department creates problems such as a FF's health and can shorten thier life span as a FF due to the extra work (depending how strenuous and busy the department is).

I think that the members here from FDMV, by what I am reading here, want to be able to handle thier own incidents without calling MA every single time. There is also a factor that people depend to much on MA and the MA department's rank and file and also tax payers will start asking questions "Why are we going over there all the time while we are leaving some of ourt area's unprotected everytime they have a fire?" There is a whole slew of angles we can take here, pro and con and I'm not knocking anyone down with this post. The powers that be have to really look at this situation before something happens, and when OSHA comes in, then the withc hunt could begin. I have seen it around where I live and I have read up in alot of the trade articles about this subject and it is alarming.

No fire department should have to suffer and unfortunately we all know no one will be totally satisfied but don;t make it dangerous and a department should be able to handle its own affairs on a first alarm. And also, no short cuts should be taken on equipment and apparatus, cause that spells trouble alsol

Hang in there guys and gals from FDMV and keep your heads up. Stay Safe.

[Guest]

If all the previous posts are on the mark, you mean to tell me that all these probies that are hired are not doing anything to help with the manpower situations. I find that very hard to believe

←

Your obviously ignorant to this whole issue and shouldn't make any assumptions if you don't work there to witness first hand FDMV's problem with Staffing. What aren't you understanding? The past few classes of Probies, just replaced guys who retired, who were also victims of FDMV's inadequate manpower levels. Hence, no increase in manning to bring your total number up, just bring it back to where it was prior to these members retiring. Get It, Got It, Good!

[Guest]

jloftus one poster had it pretty close here your in the spotlight, and have a tremendus work load. All departments need m/a . What i would like to add is you run to many companies w/ to few men. Not knowing your exact amount of members on your trucks now. With sixteen men working a shift You should only run 2 engines, 2 trucks, and maybe the rescue on special call. Then re- arange response plans. I think you run about 3700 a year, probably like us most still alarms.If nessessary close firehouses thats the only thing that will outrage the public. As long as that house has a man or two in it, The public feels protected.The public only knows how to count engines, they never see the amount of men on them. Running with two men on an engine is dangerous. even if mv hired 20 today it would still would not fix the problem. Just know one thing we are here for you and a phone call away.

[gss131 212]

jloftus one poster had it pretty close here your in the spotlight, and have a tremendus work load. All departments need m/a . What i would like to add is you run to many companies w/ to few men. Not knowing your exact amount of members on your trucks now. With sixteen men working a shift You should only  run 2 engines, 2 trucks, and maybe the rescue on special call. Then re- arange response plans. I think you run about 3700 a year, probably like us most still alarms.If nessessary close firehouses thats the only thing that will outrage the public. As long as that house has a man or two in it, The public feels protected.The public only knows how to count engines, they never see the amount of men on them. Running with two men on an engine is dangerous. even if mv hired 20 today it would still would not fix the problem. Just know one thing we are here for you and a phone call away.

←

very well said

[gss131 212]

Just to add something,FDNY protocol is for second due engine to help the first line get water on the fire which adds up to 8 + men stretching a line???MV does the same with 25% of that.Yet, MV has alot Populous sections of the city including alot of prewar non-standpipe buildings,much like the bronx.FDNY is successful because of manpower,MV is sucessful because they bust their a**.This is a good thread, maybe this can be brought to light finally before something unfortunate happens.

[hudson144 150]

For those of you who don'y know the response------

Telephone Alarm-3 engines,2 trucks Rescue 1, working deputy chief

Breakdown of manpower--- 3 engines = 6-7 men

2 trucks = 6 men

Rescue 1 = 1 man

deputys driver = 1 man

________

majority of time 14 men

subtract chiefs aide (1) 1st/2nd due mpo (2) you are down to 11 firefighters. 3rd due engine is the "FAST TEAM" (SMOKE SCREEN) you are down to 9 firefighters. with 9 guys you "make do with what you got", a 2nd alarm is transmitted and 2 more guys(new fast team) show up on the last engine but you are still below a safe working amount of members. a large majority of the time the 5th engine is out of service so we won't even go there with that. bottom line is that we bust our butts but you can only do so much when the odds are against you from the time the alarm is transmitted, throw in that a member might get hurt in the initial stages of the alarm, throw in the fact that a report might be recieved that a person is missing or trapped somewhere in the structure. we all have assigned tasks to do on the fireground and many times they are hard to carry out because you are re-assigend to do another task. another point- 45 minutes or less how many guys are able to actively help themselves if they had to because they are so fatigued or spent that you are only a body on the fireground? we can go on and on from here ! be safe guys because its only a matter of time!!!

Edited April 26, 2006 by hudson144

[david sheeky 2]

before i start kudos to the fdmv for a grat job they do under some deplorable conditions back in the early nineties a rally was held to protest contract firefighters on a very frigid day in february a very clear&loud message was sent to these guys go home your not welcome in westchester the feeling of unity&strength is something myself&my union brothers will never forget i honestly feel that a rally of this magnitude held in the vern would be a great help to the guys there mayor ernie his foot doctor commisioner&city hall cronies must be told to stop playing russian roulette with lives&property people wiyh informational picket signs bullhorns&flyers should also help the weather is nice a lunch time rally will turn some heads i hope everyone will take this in the right way after guys if this works it could save your life or someone else's hope to see all of you at a rally in da vern

[Guest]

Pelham's Professional Firefighters will once again step up to the plate. We spoke to our Village Administrator this morning explaining the situation in Mt Vernon. He would be on board with a plan involving a system of monetary retribution for mutual aid calls, where mutual aid units are utilized to cover firehouses as opposed to Mt Vernon calling in it's own members to do so. I know what you’re going to say. Mt Vernon has no spare equipment. Not really our problem, get some is what the city should be told, or pay $500 an hour for ours.

My question is this??? Which of the surrounding Locals are ready to do the same...Half the guys on our jobs are ready to run each other over to rush into Mt Vernon for a chance to get their gear dirty. We argue with management as to how many firefighters we need to ensure an adequate initial attack, but we're willing to reduce that number to go sit in a firehouse in Mt Vernon. Why? We all know the answer. To get a chance to get called to the scene and get our rocks off. Being a Union Firefighter is a lot more than just putting a sticker on your car window and marching on St. Paddy's Day. It's a shame more of our guys don't know this.

Instead of departments lobbying to get themselves higher on the mutual aid list for the City of Mt Vernon, they should be lobbying to ensure the safety of FDMV's members.

I represent the smallest Local involved with mutual aid to Mt. Vernon, and we're willing to stand up and fight for our brothers in 107. Going it alone, as we have in the past, is not going to accomplish anything. New Rochelle, Eastchester, Greenville, and whoever else is on the list or trying to get on the list, wake up and smell the smoke. The safety of Mt Vernon firefighters is being jeopardized. The time for action is now before we loose one of our own.

Chris McCann

Union President, Local 2213