DNR Tatoo

[Medic137 6]

Woman gets DNR tatoo

Woman Gets 'DO NOT RESUSCITATE' Tattoo

Thu May 18, 7:27 PM ET

DECORAH, Iowa - Mary Wohlford has made it perfectly clear what her final wishes are: it's written in ink — on her chest. Wohlford, 80, had the words "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" tattooed on her chest in February.

Wohlford hopes she's made her wishes perfectly clear should she become incapacitated. She also has a living will hanging on the side of her refrigerator.

"People might think I'm crazy, but that's OK," she said. "Sometimes the nuttiest ideas are the most advanced."

But Wohlford's decision to have her final wishes imprinted on her chest have raised some legal issues.

Some medical and legal experts doubt that Wohlford's tattoo would be binding in the emergency room or in court. But they give her credit for originality.

"I'll be darned," said Bob Cowie, a Decorah lawyer and chairman of the Iowa Bar Association's probate and trust law section.

"There are easier ways to do it than that," said Cowie, who suggested people sign a living will or authorize a medical power of attorney.

Wohlford said she knows some people might find the tattoo amusing. But she said her motive is serious.

"This is a modern day and age," she said. "You have to advance with the times. We never even had a living will 20 years ago. Now I think we've got to go to the next step."

So, will Wohlford's tattoo stop an Iowa doctor from resuscitating her? No, said Dr. Mark Purtle, who works at Iowa Methodist Medical Center in Des Moines.

Purtle said Iowa law defines when caregivers are permitted to end life-sustaining measures. A tattoo isn't enough, he said.

He recommended a living will or an advanced directive, with a copy placed in the patient's medical charge. He also said people should discuss their wishes with family members.

___

Information from: The Des Moines Register, http://www.desmoinesregister.com

[JBE 328]

Now that there is something you don't see everyday. Have to give her the E for effort.

[irishfire2491 24]

i will accept it only if the paper work is there correctly to prove a DNR!!

[TRUCK6018 50]

Interesting senario.

While the lawyer was quoted a living will or power of attorney would be more pratical, this isn't feesible in the field. As it is now, you go to a code and a family member says there is a DNR, you are suposed to see it first.

As far as a DNR tat, if the person later changes their mind on having a DNR (just playing devil's advocate), the patient better get a quick coverup.

[Skooter92 7]

OK folks, scenario time.

You respond to a residence on a male down, unknown further. On arrival, you find 1st responders kneeling next to an elderly male, with stunned expressions on their faces. The patient's chest is exposed, shaven, and has a faithful reproduction by tattoo of the NYS Out-of-Hospital DNR form, in date, with physician's signature in permanent marker. He is pulseless, apneic and unresponsive.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

Figure this one out.

Do you skin him to get a copy of the DNR for yer PCR?

[BFD1054 1,552]

Skooter, as always, you are a sick mother and i love it bro lol!

I think this is funny as hell, but not to practical. As Irishfire stated, you still need the paperwork (obviously), so the tat is kinda pointless, but funny at the least!

[irishfire2491 24]

lol No you can skin him you have to pick him up and bring him to the closest copy machine and lay him on it and make copies to get a copy for the PCR

I still stick with my first answer Paperwork before Decission

[roeems87 0]

I think that's one of those get on the phone with medical control and say "hey doc, he's got 'DON'T EVEN DARE TO TRY CPR' tattooed across his chest... think it's ok if I don't?" haha...

[DaveTFD 0]

unless this woman has up-to-date paper work next to her, or has a family member living with her that hands me a dnr...i am pretending i cant read and work on her

[IzzyEng4 427]

Nope, not at all. Laws area laws and if the paper work is not up to date, I'll be doing chest jumping-jacks along with med control for c.y.a.

[Guest bibbles10504]

yea, this is a unique topic. Is there a lawyer around?

[Remember585 815]

If this was me, and I am being serious (not per usual) I would first laugh, then I would carry on in accordance to protocol acting as if there was no DNR, only because, as far as I know, our bodies are not considered a legal document.

I would really like to hear an opinion from a lawyer on this one...

[MPACE2-299 0]

[EJS1810 7]

If she was a D-cup it would be Do Not Resuscitate,

If she was an A-Cup it would only be DNR

[roeems87 0]

In case anyone is interested, the NYS DOH EMS Bureau sent out a memo a bunch of years ago outlining the "FAQs of DNRs" and such. No where on here does it talk about a tattoo or another means to express a DNR sans paperwork or a bracelet. Though if a bracelet is acceptable (under the conditions outlined on the website), I'm not 100% sure that a tattoo is out of the blue... Take a look for yourself:

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/99-10.htm

[JetPhoto 626]

How does the hospital photocopy that for their records? LOL

[tunaFish 0]

The article states a lawyer's comments on this. I don't think it is leagally binding. The living will is on her refrig. Well, what if she isn't home.

I'm checking to see if this actually occured just out of courtesy.

At least this is no abbreviation as DNR, which also means Department of National Resources. A play on words???

[Guest]

this whole DOH approved bracelet thing seems to me to make a tat acceptable proof...i mean with a bracelet it says you dont even have to see paperwork, you assume that the patient has an out of hospital DNR...whats the difference with a tat? Either way, id probably intiate care, phone medical control and go from there...

[ny10570 745]

NYS is very clear. If they don't explicitly approve it, you can consider it invalid. F-ing scooter stole my idea. You get a full DNY tattooed on the body, it may be acceptable. NYC went to court a few years ago because NH's would have them in all sorts of different styles. The state said that so long as the right info was there they didn't care what it was printed on. That could be applied to the human body.

[Guest paramedico987]

I'd accept the whole form as a tatoo... if by some wierd chance it came to court I'd simply show the judge the picture I absolutely had to take with my camera-phone...

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I consulted one of my friends who is a lawyer and he said that a in order for the DNR to be accepted in court and be legal in needs to be signed by the person it is intended for, a third party and it needs to be notarized. From what I know about DNR's which is not much, a copy needs to be shown to the person treating the patient. Therefore no tatoo or anything can be used as a replacement. So it seems while the DNR tatoo is a good idea, it is not legally binding nor can it be admissable in court.

[Guest]

I consulted one of my friends who is a lawyer and he said that a in order for the DNR to be accepted in court and be legal in needs to be signed by the person it is intended for, a third party and it needs to be notarized.  From what I know about DNR's which is not much, a copy needs to be shown to the person treating the patient.  Therefore no tatoo or anything can be used as a replacement.  So it seems while the DNR tatoo is a good idea, it is not legally binding nor can it be admissable in court.

←

go to the NYS link that was posted a few posts above...youll notice that under special circumstances the state DOES NOT require a signed and notarized copy of the actual DNR to be presented to the prehospital provider...hence the whole NYS DOH approved bracelet.

[WAS967 97]

I had a call recently where the patient was witnessed taking her last breath by the aid who just finished giving her some apple sauce. Family was there stating that she had a valid DNR. BLS arrived moments before me and was looking for a cue on what to do. Family was asked for the DNR and they said they were looking for it. We started doing our thing while the family continued looking. The family even got on the phone and spoke to thier lawyer who wanted to talk to me (uhm...no thanks). I called the ER and talked to the ER doc. He conferenced in with the Patient's Medical Doctor who told us that he was unaware of the patient having a DNR. Long story short - have a copy of it available....hell, plaster it to the headboard or get a bracelet/necklace.

And of course Murphy (a relative of Skooter's) Law dominated and we "saved" the patient on the way to the ER making the issue all the more sensitive to the family who most likely would have preferred that thier mother die in peace.

Edited May 22, 2006 by WAS967

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I see, but not ever state has this same policy and just a tatoo of the words of a DNR are not enough to envoke a DNR.

[ny10570 745]

Not just the wording, get the singantures on there too. Copy of the DNR is sufficient, so the tatoo should work...as for the notary, never seen it and I've seen dozens and dozens of DNRs

[Guest]

I see, but not ever state has this same policy and just a tatoo of the words of a DNR are not enough to envoke a DNR.

←

well...NYS seems to think the words DNR on a bracelet translates into a patient having a DNR even if they dont have it on them...same words the tat says...

[calhobs 110]

lets just say this, I hope i am not the first NYS EMT to come upon this call.

[Guest Rich DD]

OK folks, scenario time.

You respond to a residence on a male down, unknown further.  On arrival, you find 1st responders kneeling next to an elderly male, with stunned expressions on their faces.  The patient's chest is exposed, shaven, and has a faithful reproduction by tattoo of the NYS Out-of-Hospital DNR form, in date, with physician's signature in permanent marker.  He is pulseless, apneic and unresponsive.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

Figure this one out.

Do you skin him to get a copy of the DNR for yer PCR?

←

Digital Camera??? Take the picture, in several angles, and print them out in quarters. Then attach it to your PCR.

Give the man some damn respect man!!

[Skooter92 7]

Whoa.....hold up.

You don't have to have a third-party signature, patient signature or notarization to make a DNR valid. Facilities have forms for DNRs for patients who are incompetent to make their own decisions; these require one or more physicians to sign off on the patients incapacity, then a family member, guardian, or other esponsible party to consent to the issuance. No DNR form I have ever seen in NYS has required notarization. Not in 20 years.

The only form authorized explicitly by NYS DOH Bureau of EMS for our use, which only requires a physician signature, is here at NYS DOH BEMS Pre-Hospital DNR

No other elements are needed for EMS providers to respect the DNR. All else is gravy.

Edited May 23, 2006 by Skooter92

[Guest]

Maybe attaching an actual DNR may have helped better. But than again...there are alot of times you don't need an actual DNR to get the drift.