NYCREMSCO Issues Warning On EMS Badges

[Guest]

www.nycremsco.org

IMPORTANT ANOUNCEMENT – EMS Badges

EMTs are being arrested for carrying their traditional badges

Over the last few months, several EMTs have been arrested for carrying badges which identify their level of training and NYS DOH issued certification number.

A few minutes ago I received a call from yet another EMT who was arrested and released after 72 hours and is being charged with a felony!  This EMT was not displaying the badge, but carrying it in a bag/purse.

The Regional EMS Council is working to clarify the use of badges in our EMS community, but until that is done use your agency ID, NYS DOH certification card, and driver’s License

PLEASE PUT YOUR BADGES AWAY – Do not keep your badge in your wallet or purse – DO NOT CARRY YOUR BADGE

Please check our webpage for updates.

Marie C. Diglio, EMTP

Executive Director Operations

Regional Emergency Medical Services Council of New York City

475 Riverside Drive, Suite 1929

New York, NY 10015

Tel: (212) 870-2301, option 4

Fax: (212) 870-2302

Email: mdiglio@nycremsco.org

Website: www.nycremsco.org

[Guest]

What is the NYS law on badges? I'm curious as to what the issue is here?

I would think badges would need to be issued by an agency, and not bought individually, like many EMTs do. And I wonder how this affects security guards who also have badges?

[RWC130 594]

The EMS/EMT badges in question are NYC Police Officer or NYC Detective style with a NYC or NYS seal on them. EVERYONE has them!

Having the NYS or NYC seal on the badge is ILLEGAL or so I have been told.

I have a Gold EMT "NYPD Detective Style" badge with the NYS seal, yes the ILLEGAL one since 1992. I have NEVER had a problem!

I don't think you will get arrested for walking down the street with a badge in your wallet. Seems like a little more to the story. Hmmm ?

Maybe how you present yourself????

Remember everyone, after 9/11 the world changed.

Don't flash a Volunteer FIRE or EMT badge at a Police Officer and say

"I'm On The Job"

USE COMMON SENSE!!!

Just my two cents..

Edited June 20, 2006 by RWC130

[hudson144 150]

Imagine if they arrested for illegal blue lights,the jails would be overflowing!!!!

[mfc2257 464]

I've never been one for flashy displays of rank, title, organization, etc... Badges, blue lights, whatever it is.

BUT

This is crazy. If the badge is illegal and the EMT didn't know it then confiscate it and be done. Holding an EMT for 72 hours is out of control. Law enforcement needs to take a step back in this situation and ask them selves what good to the community are they doing by holding someone (an emergency worker who could be out helping others) for 72 hours.

FINALLY

There are plenty of goobers in our line of work who love to put on a huge show with all sorts of gear. My advice is unless it is absolutely necessary as a part of the duty that you are performing while ON A CALL.... leave the "look at me I'm an emergency service provider" gear in the bag or at the station. It'll keep your tit out of the ringer.

[Guest]

No need to quote that one! I agree on a couple of points within.

First, I could see an EMS provider put under for 72 hours but only on an extreme event. As stated above about the "on the job" quote... common sense guys and gals. I think someone up high on the DOH ladder has gotten their panties in twist on a topic that really should be under the radar. But maybe this will prompt local agencies north of the borough line to issue shields if they feel necessary.

I'm not a hypocrit or going to lie, so I will be the first to say I have one. It was company issued and looks like the NYC PO shield it's got my 4#'s on it and not too many of us wear 'em. (one more thing to make you look like a cop = have fun getting shot at!)

Secondly to relate to the goobers we all work with, well not so much anymore, but I still remember some funny times at their expense! Think back though to when the proverbial ink was still wet on our cards. I'm sure there were plenty of instances where we showed our rookie selves. I have partners that have been doing this longer than me and they still bring unnecessary equipment in on jobs just to cya.

But to note guys there really isn't too much your going to do with a trauma bag on an ABD PN.

[Eagle24 2]

"I have a Gold EMT "NYPD Detective Style" badge with the NYS seal, yes the ILLEGAL one since 1992."

I got the same type too...I'm just wondering now why I never heard it was illegal from my agency or from the company I got it from. . .seems a little odd-i am north of NYC though...

I'm a "volly" and the only time I use it is if I show up to a call and don't have any other uniform items that can identify me as an EMT(sorry-clothes do have to get washed)---i even got stopped by hospital security once going into the ER-showed them the badge/agency ID and that was fine---i think as long as people don't go "badge crazy" and try to pretend they're somehow more important than the rest of the world, this issue will go away...but there are always those people. . .o well

And I don't think they would hold him for 72 hours just for having a shield...something else was definately playing a role in his detainment...

[Guest]

What is the NYS law on badges? I'm curious as to what the issue is here?

I would think badges would need to be issued by an agency, and not bought individually, like many EMTs do. And I wonder how this affects security guards who also have badges?

←

Below is the NY state policy on EMS Provider Certification and Identification

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/03-08.htm

[trauma74 111]

Here we go again! What the hell is going on in NYC?! Is there not enough other crime going on that real criminals should be getting locked up for?

EMTs & Medics have been carrying badges for years. There is nothing illegal about carrying a badge with a NYS seal and your EMT number on it. I can undertand getting arrested if you use your badge in an inappropriate manner or using it to impersonate a police officer, but to simply get arrested for carrying or wearing a badge! That is insane!

Last months edition of the First Responder Newspaper had an article about the EMT who was arrested several months ago by the NYPD after a detective style badge was discovered in his briefcase as he was entering a federal courthouse. The article went on to say that the NYPD issued a statement that they will arrest any EMT or Paramedic, on or off duty who is in possession of a badge not issued by the City or the State.

This now goes beyond just having a NYPD style badge. First of all, NYS does not issue EMT and Medic badges. They never have and I do not ever see this happening. NYC used to issue badges back in the day to their EMTs and Medics, but not anymore. So this means that even a badge issued by your agency could get you arrested in NYC. The NYPD statement does not even mention anything about having or not having a state or city seal. My agency issues badges to our members. See the link below for the style of badge we issue. It is the one in the top left corner of the page.

http://www.smithwarren.com/catalog_80-21.php

I am the one who designed our badge. My intent was to not make it look like a police badge, so instead of a state seal in the center, we have a blue star of life with a white background. There is no mistaking this badge for police badge. Line Officers get the badge in gold and all other members get it in silver.

Does the NYPD statement include fire department badges too? Yeah, come and lock me up for carrying a badge that is in the shape of a maltese cross!!!!

Since I became an EMT many years ago I always carried a badge in my wallet. My first badge was a silver NYPD police officer (not detective) style badge. It said "Emergency Medical Technician" along the top and had my EMT number at the bottom. Since I traveled 100 miles a day round trip to work I knew that I was bound to get stopped by a police officer for speeding somewhere along the way. When I got stopped I gave my drivers license to the officer and also showed him or her my badge and made a statement at the same time that I work EMS in "the city" I worked in at the time. I never said I was "on the job" or came across as a cop. I asked for professional courtesy and I received it. This badge was not issued by my company. We were a commercial service providing EMS to a city, we were not employees of that city. I lost count of the amout of times that I was pulled over going to and from work or when I was off duty, but I was ALWAYS 100% respectful to the police officers and they always extended me professional courtesy. I was never once questioned or had my balls broke about this style of badge. Eventually I purchased a detective style badge and I have been carrying that for many years now. I have been stopped while carrying that badge and I never got questioned about that one either.

The police officers up here do not ever break balls about EMS badges. I do not understand why NYC has to do it. Many agencies do not have ID cards for their members so the badge is their only source of ID when they are off duty.

I recently wrote a 3 page letter to my local Senator about this issue. I strongly encourage all of you to do the same.

...........................end of rant!!!!!

[210 91]

The EMS/EMT badges in question are NYC Police Officer or NYC Detective style with a NYC or NYS seal on them. EVERYONE has them!

Having the NYS or NYC seal on the badge is ILLEGAL or so I have been told.

I have a Gold EMT "NYPD Detective Style" badge with the NYS seal, yes the ILLEGAL one since 1992. I have NEVER had a problem!

I don't think you will get arrested for walking down the street with a badge in your wallet. Seems like a little more to the story. Hmmm ?

Maybe how you present yourself????

Remember everyone, after 9/11 the world changed.

Don't flash a Volunteer FIRE or EMT badge at a Police Officer and say

"I'm On The Job"

USE COMMON SENSE!!!

Just my two cents..   

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This sums it up.

[smwells 7]

I have carried a Gold NYC detective style EMT badge in my wallet since I became one in 1993.

I have worked in NYC most of these years in a non ems related job and no one has ever harrased me about the badge. I purchased it from a police supply shop less than a block from the NYPD police academy on 20th/2nd ave.

If the law doesnt allow me to posses one since 1992, then how was I able to purchase it from an authorized dealer??

I think someone is creating a lot of bad press for those of us who legitimately do this job.

If someone has a valid card to backup the badge then it should be no issue.. If the person is trying to play "kojack" and flashing a badge at a scene, then they deserve the 72 hr vacation.

[Guest skubasam]

Anyone have the chapter and verse on this from a legal standpoint? That is, who can show me where to find the specific law that states that wearing an EMT badge of any style is illegal? I'd like the source as well for verification. I'll be contacting my NYS Assemblyman and Senator on this issue and I'd like to know the legal basis for these actions. Any help would be appreciated.

[khas143 13]

I have worked in NYC most of these years in a non ems related job and no one has ever harrased me about the badge. I purchased it from a police supply shop less than a block from the NYPD police academy on 20th/2nd ave.

If the law doesnt allow me to posses one since 1992, then how was I able to purchase it from an authorized dealer??

I think someone is creating a lot of bad press for those of us who legitimately do this job.

If someone has a valid card to backup the badge then it should be no issue.. If the person is trying to play "kojack" and flashing a badge at a scene, then they deserve the 72 hr vacation.

←

Just because something is sold does not mean that it is legal. You can buy scanners and if you put them in your car it is illegal. Hell, you can buy window tint at the auto supply store and if you put it on your windows it becomes illegal. Ignorance is not an excuse, however, it would be nice to have some sort of formal clarification concerning badges for EMS.

I would think that if a badge was issued by a governmental agency there should be no problem at all. However, when it comes to personally purchased badges we should all know the law or interpretation thereof. I'll be the first one to admit that I do not know exactly what the law states but the overriding factor in all of this should be common sense on both the parts of law enforcement and EMS providers.

[BIGRED1 71]

I would like to know what charges this person was brought up on. Is carrying a badge in a bag that says EMT really warrent a felony charge? i am thinking the person was doing something shifty or was maybe drinking, i don't you make something up, that they go away for 72 HOURS!!

[irishfire2491 24]

YEA there has to be more to the story and police just cant go and search people bags and wallets for no reason. I would like to hear what the full storie behind this????

[x648eng119 2]

Ok, so the topic here has been about the gold detective style badge. Does the same apply to the silver patrolman's style badge?

[unleashedff248 3]

Another case of good people being punished while the criminals walk the streets. What's wrong? Are we that far down on the list of law enforcement goals that carrying an EMT badge is the new drug posession? Is every drug dealer and murderer off the street? I'd love to see this go to court. What's this world coming to?

How about more focus being put on the people that take lives, not save them? But then again the good and innocent people are the easiest to take advantage of, right?

Whatever happened to the brotherhood and good relations between the community, the police, and the fire and EMS personnel that I've always heard about? That's not to say nobody gets along, but the community overwhelmingly doesn't appreciate the emergency service workers (especially volunteers). Now the police relations are deteriorating too, not to mention that I'm starting to see fellow EMS/fire personnel turn their backs on their own people.

Legally speaking EMS badges may be wrong. But shouldn't we consider intent?

I can't believe that the officials don't see that this is the absolute LAST battle the police should be fighting right now. This is really quite disheartening.

[Guest]

Another case of good people being punished while the criminals walk the streets. What's wrong? Are we that far down on the list of law enforcement goals that carrying an EMT badge is the new drug posession? Is every drug dealer and murderer off the street? I'd love to see this go to court. What's this world coming to?

How about more focus being put on the people that take lives, not save them? But then again the good and innocent people are the easiest to take advantage of, right?

Whatever happened to the brotherhood and good relations between the community, the police, and the fire and EMS personnel that I've always heard about? That's not to say nobody gets along, but the community overwhelmingly doesn't appreciate the emergency service workers (especially volunteers). Now the police relations are deteriorating too, not to mention that I'm starting to see fellow EMS/fire personnel turn their backs on their own people.

Legally speaking EMS badges may be wrong. But shouldn't we consider intent?

I can't believe that the officials don't see that this is the absolute LAST battle the police should be fighting right now. This is really quite disheartening.

←

EMS has always and continues to be the bastard child of the emergency services - vastly under appreciated by the communities we serve. Glory seeking volunteers (and i mean glory seekers only, I’m not generalizing) don’t help progress EMS either, if anything they only make the job more difficult.

[STAT213 332]

You have been told that you can't wear or display your badge in NYC. The PD says they do not want people in their AO with non NYPD issued shields. Ok, that tells me not to bring one to NYC. Your badge is not recognized there, even if it was issued to you by your department. You have no need to carry a badge in NYC. Where is the issue? Why do you need to carry a shield in NYC? Can someone give me a good reason as to why you would need (need now gang, not want) to carry a shield in NYC?

[smwells 7]

You have been told that you can't wear or display your badge in NYC.  The PD says they do not want people in their AO with non NYPD issued shields.  Ok, that tells me not to bring one to NYC.  Your badge is not recognized there, even if it was issued to you by your department.  You have no need to carry a badge in NYC. Where is the issue?  Why do you need to carry a shield in NYC?  Can someone give me a good reason as to why you would need (need now gang, not want) to carry a shield in NYC?

←

I cant argue with your point, you shouldn't wear it or display it in NYC, but this whole discussion started with someone being arrested for carrying his badge in a briefcase, not displaying it.

Personally I carry mine in my wallet that has a place for my badge, for over 12 years without issue in and out of NYC, including federal and state offices.

As many people have already stated on here, we need the full story.. so far no one has gotten it.

[Remember585 815]

I don't get it myself.

Why would you want to look like a cop??? Do you have thier rights? Do you have a gun? ARE YOU A COP?!

That's one of those things I suppose I will never understand.

Oh, and JAIL TIME is absurd. Just my opinion.

[Skooter92 7]

How about a good long time out for naughty behavior. Jail is just so icky.

Seriously, I carry my DOH card only. Shield no, card yes.

Never had a problem, never gotten a ticket, always treated courteously by all members of law enforcement. Heard other horror stories of folks with tins getting all kinds of abuse for trying to flash/use them.

Just say no.

[Guest]

As per the DOH website linked above the state says this:

"A person who chooses to wear a patch, shield or other insignia may only indicate on such, the level of care that they are certified by the Department to practice at. To do otherwise would be indicating certification not held by the provider which might also constitute a criminal offense."

Now, I am not a legal expert, but pretty much those words sums it up as it is lawful as long as you properly identify yourself.

Especially if you copy word for word from your EMT/Medic Card.

'

Now is this problem statewide or just New York City?

Because New York State has a higher jurisdiction over New York City.

I use to be involved in policitcs in NY and if everyone wants to make a strong point and want to hit their represenatives here is what I would do. I am more then happy to help anyone if they are interested in doing so.

1- Write a letter to your New York State Senator, New York State Assemblyman, (if living in NYC) write a letter to your City Councilman.

2- A legal petition to propose legislation to make it lawful to carry a properly identified EMT/Paramedic Shield (i.e. if you are an EMT your badge says EMT, if you are a Paramedic you badge says Paramedic). In this petiton describe the exact style, color, lettering of the badge.

3- March on Albany. 2006 is an election year. NYS law-makers deffiently want to get re-elected. Make your legislator take a stand on the issue. The point you want to prove, " Emergency Medical Service Personell want the right to own and carry a Shield to properly identify themselves"

LOBBY YOUR REPRESENATIVES!!!

4- Make this a media event. "An emt arrested for carrying badge" .

You want to show people that EMS is the bastard stepchild of Emergency Services and that we are always frowned and looked down upon. We want the respect we deserve.

Thats my 2cents. If anyone is interested in doing any of the above, I am more then happy to help in ANY Capacity I can.

[Guest]

Dont take this the wrong way but before the hostile takeover NYPD ALWAYS RESPECTED EMS shields many many cops ( friends of mine ) always told me that in the good old days new cops were instructed to give courtesy to EMS, There has to be more to it usually if you acted like a fool you were treated like one. as for shields the county should issue one shield for us all no matter what agency you are with it would serve a few purpose's one the numbering would be county wide ,two it would serve to give us some sort of brotherhood,some kinda cohesiveness. again not being on the same page hurts us,when people say I dont want to be noticed I dont want to wear a uniform it just makes us look like we dont care about our own proffesion. Excuse my spelling...........I AM NOT ANTI ANYONE I AM PRO EMS.........................................

[STAT213 332]

as for shields  the county should issue one shield for us all no matter what agency you are with it would serve a few purpose's one the numbering would be county wide ,two it would serve to give us some sort of brotherhood,some kinda cohesiveness.

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Arrrgghh...I can't figure it out. You are not a cop, why do you want a "shield?" Step back for a minute, all of those who are arguing that you should be able to carry and display one. WHY? Again, WHY? It is not needed. Is it to make you feel better about yourself? I guess its like the parades, I just don't get it. Maybe that's why I left New York State completely. I just don't get it...

[Guest]

EMS has always and continues to be the bastard child of the emergency services - vastly under appreciated by the communities we serve. Glory seeking volunteers (and i mean glory seekers only, I’m not generalizing) don’t help progress EMS either, if anything they only make the job more difficult.

←

EMS is the little brother of the emergency services. At times we can dislike our younger syblings, but it is more of a misunderstanding rather than a hatred. The only reason why EMS is viewed as a bastard child is because we as EMS providers let it be! Greater public knowlege and education can and will raise us up to par.

As for the whole badge thingy, I'll state it again, all of us have brought up some great points in the matter, i'm guilty it was issued however it is a sole choice to wear it while not in full dress uniform. I think it all might be correlated to the above stated, are we really the bastard children or is it more of an inferiority complex that SOME are dealing with. I prefer not to look anything like the police, less chance of getting mistaken for one on one of those crazy scenes in the middle of the night. Heck I even wear a polo shirt and they still think i'm a cop! Some kind of guilt by association.

However I do think this topic needs a nice service, some flowers, kind words and put six feet under.