KME Good Or Bad?

[sr71 1]

Is KME a brand of quality like Seagrave, Marion, Etc?

Or Crap like E- one or Alf?

[AndyC3J 190]

Depends on which department you ask. They're no different than any other make. Some love 'em, some hate 'em.

[Ladder44 73]

dont be bashing on E-One just cause they have electrical problems........

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[IzzyEng4 427]

Keep Mechanics Employed?

Buy E-nother One?

See the Grave?

American LaJunk?

Suk-phen?

Smeal Deal?

Pierce of crap?

We heard them all, but there is no such thing as a bad truck. And everyone has thier opioion on whos the best, just like the Ford, GM and Dogde debate. What matters is the service and dealer network level after you receive your truck. If there is bad service, then its a bad truck. If you don't do your homework before signing on the line to start building a truck, shame on you then. If quality control is a problem, then that is what you have to worry about then. Just because you pay $300,000 to $400,000 for a pumper doesn't neccesarily mean your buying the best and anything less is crap too.

KME is a good truck, so is E-One, ALF, Ferrara, Sutphen, Smeal, Central States, Ect. The only one I would say is bad now is the defunct New Lexington out of PA because of thier building and quality control prolems and other things since they area being investigatred and also currently being sued by a MA department.

[DOC22 1]

We love our Gowens Knights! good, and reliable! Relatively a small company, but they take a lot of pride in what they build.

[sr71 1]

i was asking if it was made well and if its reliable and im sorry if i bashed a brand your dept has but is kme knon for quality?

[JBE 328]

LA County has been using them almost exclusively for about 15 years. They just started getting delivery of a pretty big order. I guess it depends on who you ask.

And with Seagrave, they have been having a lot of problems, especially with FDNY.

Edited August 12, 2006 by JBE

[res6cue 67]

Counting off the top of my head, 8 companies in Rockland have a total of 13 KMEs. 3 of those companies are repeat customers with as many as 3 units each and a rather long history with KME going back over a decade (matter of fact, you can add another unit to the 13 if you want to include Grumman). Of the other 5 companies, the KME was their most recent purchase. I've not heard any gripes from any of these companies.

When we were spec'ing our Tower, we looked at the KME midmount. It was a nice truck, good build quality. In my personal opinion, it was a better built truck than the ALF midmount we looked at. I can definitely see why they're appealing to many depts.

[Guest]

Sutphen also builds a very nice mid-mount 100 foot tower ladder.

[res6cue 67]

Sutphen also builds a very nice mid-mount 100 foot tower ladder.

I'm not sure if that was in response to my bit about spec'ing our Tower, but yes Sutphen makes a decent truck. Although one of our neighboring depts has an all Sutphen fleet going back many, many decades, and word from them is that Sutphen's quality has gone down somewhat in recent years. There are 4 Sutphen platforms right around us, but we knew it wasn't the truck for us for a whole list of reasons. Not the least of which is that we wanted a platform with an actual steel heavy duty ladder, not an aluminum box boom with handrails bolted to the top of it. In any case, no manufacturer we looked at could match what we eventually got from Pierce, as far as standard features and the options we wanted and requirements we had.

[JustSomeGuy 0]

OMG TWO COMPLIMENTS IN ONE THREAD ABOUT A SUTPHEN!!! Never thought I would see the day. I understand everyone has their own opinions and thats what makes this country great, and that's also why we have menu's at restaurants, but IMO Sutphens are horrible, I have never seen any other company take so many shortcuts to save a buck. Also their marketing is genius cause somehow they are still selling these things. OK OK OK rant over, I am sorry to offend you. I will now go back to just observing this thread and being quiet

Edited August 12, 2006 by JustSomeGuy

[res6cue 67]

Well...I was trying to be polite and diplomatic about it, but I really do not like Sutphen at all. I've spent a fair amount of time around our neighbor dept's and was less than impressed. But, they've never had any major problems with theirs, so I'm not exactly going to call them junk either.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Not that we all don't ahve opinions on what we've seen, but get some first hand info before making any decision. We're replacing our aerail with new 93' ALF mid-mount. This after tons of homework and a three day whirlwind tour of mid-mount users in the NY, CT and MA. One thisng's for sure: talk to the firefighters that use the truck. Not the Chief's who bought them.

Again, these were just observations we heard from line firefighters on their mid-mount towers:

KME: only saw one, lots of nightmares.

E-One: 5 of 6 users unhappy and said stay away

Peirce: 4 (of 6) users had electronics issues resulting in damage or locking up of aerial

Sutphen: didn't even look, the bucket is detrimental to good tactical uses. Had one to use for a year, didn't like.

ALF: most (6 of 6) were happy except minor issues with door switches.

Seagrave/Scope: (sung by Eddie Murphy)"we can't afford it, we can't afford it, we can't afford it" Little to no bad remarks from users. Cost to great to be realistic.

No one else met our specs for sole-source or minimum number of trucks in service.

We're getting ready to do another "tour" for our new Rescue Pumper. I highly recommend this as you see many innovations, some are great others don't work as well. Also, you can aniticpate issues and learn from other mistakes.

[IzzyEng4 427]

i was asking if it was made well and if its reliable and im sorry if i bashed a brand your dept has but is kme knon for quality?

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IF you were refering to my post, I was only giving my two cents about what is a good or bad truck and don't worry I'm not offended. I don't think you were bashing a brand either, you were asking a ligitmate question about quality and I was trying not to be subjective in my answer, just trying to give a broad view of the topic.

We have a Smeal on a Spartan Gladiator Chassis at my company and love it. However, one company in my departmet has a KME / Freightlner and had a lot of problems with it afterwards, mainly because of the dealer's slow progress of fixing the unit. The truck body was built very well but the components added on had a lot of problems as well as the elecctrical system with the Frieghtliner chass, all of which were worked out and fixed as warrenty items. The next town over has two KME engines and one tower and they have had some minor problems. We looked at the problems our brother company had and decided not to go with KME due to the service level in this area that was given.

[Guest]

The kme predator is not a good chose to go way too many problems, but other model of kme are good

[Guest]

ummm, American Lafrance is not Cr*p bud in my point of view. And if ur lookin for some good Apparatus you go Seagrave, ALF, and Pierce.

I ment to quote SR71's first post but I clicke "Fast Reply"

Edited August 12, 2006 by NRFDTL11Buff

[201/65 94]

My opinion on KME is very strong, THEY ARE GARBAGE!! We have 2 and a 3rd on order, Why you ask? Because according to our commishers they are cheap and were only going to have them for 15 years, we dont need some big expensive brand. We just sold our 1980 Sutphen engine that was refurbed in 1996. That was the best piece of equipment we could've asked for ran first due to many fires even after getting our new K-Mart Engineering pumpers, we had only minor problems with the transmission and that was it. The KME's on the other hand have had a looooong list of problems, the lated being the 1 engine likes to become electrified when @ structure fires, @ 2 of the 3 fires we've had in this past 2 weeks they truck has shocked guys while packing hose. A few other depts. in the area run Sutphens and LOVE them, seems any one around here w/ a sutphen tower falls in love with them and doesn;t want to switch.

[SKE#2HAHN 18]

Many try to copy but none match up to the quality and performance of an Aerialscope. Don't forget that a true Truck doesn't have a pump on it. Our 1973 75' Aerialscope is a true workhorse and once you have used one, you'll never consider any other manufacturer. Save your money and buy a Scope! We hope to remount ours on a new Pierce cab and chassis for about $575K.

You can find a used one in the 1973+ range for about $18K. Check out www.advantageapparatus.com for cost effective remount option or www.birdsborofd.org for one completed through the Pierce Aerialscope remount program. Many departments that own Aerialscopes will never get rid of them. The Aerialscope is the only Truck that you can truly rely on for unmatched performance and durability.

Who truly needs a 95'+ Truck anyway. The Truck always belongs in front of the fire building. Most of these GINORMOUS trucks that departments are buying fall short of practicality...seems like many are simply bought for "the extra inch syndrome" rather than true need. Check out Mechanicstown's KME Tower at www.mechanicstownfd.com - at just under 1.5 million - whats the point? more isn't always better - how many streets in your district will actually support the weight of rigs like this?

It helps to contract with an apparatus architect when you are going to make an investment in any new rig. I recommend that you consult with Mike Wilbur and Tom Shand of Emergency Vehicle Response (www.emergencyvehicleresponse.com) before you make any purchase. It is time that districts incorporate Architects into apparatus purchase just like we do with a typical construction project. There are too many peoples lives riding on our decisions not to do our homework.

[Hwy 21 0]

Many try to copy but none match up to the quality and performance of an Aerialscope. Don't forget that a true Truck doesn't have a pump on it. Our 1973 75' Aerialscope is a true workhorse and once you have used one, you'll never consider any other manufacturer. Save your money and buy a Scope! We hope to remount ours on a new Pierce cab and chassis for about $575K.

You can find a used one in the 1973+ range for about $18K. Check out www.advantageapparatus.com for cost effective remount option or www.birdsborofd.org for one completed through the Pierce Aerialscope remount program. Many departments that own Aerialscopes will never get rid of them. The Aerialscope is the only Truck that you can truly rely on for unmatched performance and durability.

Who truly needs a 95'+ Truck anyway. The Truck always belongs in front of the fire building. Most of these GINORMOUS trucks that departments are buying fall short of practicality...seems like many are simply bought for "the extra inch syndrome" rather than true need. Check out Mechanicstown's KME Tower at www.mechanicstownfd.com - at just under 1.5 million - whats the point? more isn't always better - how many streets in your district will actually support the weight of rigs like this?

It helps to contract with an apparatus architect when you are going to make an investment in any new rig. I recommend that you consult with Mike Wilbur and Tom Shand of Emergency Vehicle Response (www.emergencyvehicleresponse.com) before you make any purchase. It is time that districts incorporate Architects into apparatus purchase just like we do with a typical construction project. There are too many peoples lives riding on our decisions not to do our homework.

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[Hwy 21 0]

WestHarrison has 3 KMES 2000 Tower 2001 Eng 2005 Ruscue Pumper With a Predator cab. We had little minor problems. The Tower went back to KME once for a recall and we had couple of things done .The service dept.was fine .And Ruscon does all Our Work .Russ is very good to work with.

[Guest]

OMG TWO COMPLIMENTS IN ONE THREAD ABOUT A SUTPHEN!!!  Never thought I would see the day.  I understand everyone has their own opinions and thats what makes this country great, and that's also why we have menu's at restaurants, but IMO  Sutphens are horrible, I have never seen any other company take so many shortcuts to save a buck.  Also their marketing is genius cause somehow they are still selling these things.  OK OK OK rant over, I am sorry to offend you.  I will now go back to just observing this thread and being quiet

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In case you havent noticed but many people would rather have a fire truck built from hand not just ran through a machine like e-one and only get minimum work done buy a human being. i can run my hand down the steel of a truck where the frame was weleded by a machine and get cuts all over my hand but if a run my hand down a truck that someone spent there own time welding it and get it into top shape i would not get a single cut on my hand thats wat makes me like Sutphen better than other trucks. in my opinion sutphen and pierce are the two top manufacturers of fire trucks my company has run sutphen for 50 years and we love them!!

[ONLOCATION 24]

Firm Believer "It depends on each truck, one ALF, or Seagrave is not exactly the same as the Other" Talk to one Department or Guy "Lafrance is Great". another "Its Garbage", same for the rest of them. I know people that swear by KME and Others that hate them.

[RDUNC67 1]

In case you havent noticed but many people would rather have a fire truck built from hand not just ran through a machine like e-one and only get minimum work done buy a human being. i can run my hand down the steel of a truck where the frame was weleded by a machine and get cuts all over my hand but if a run my hand down a truck that someone spent there own time welding it and get it into top shape i would not get a single cut on my hand thats wat makes me like Sutphen better than other trucks. in my opinion sutphen and pierce are the two top manufacturers of fire trucks my company has run sutphen for 50 years and we love them!!

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Very typical of someone who uses Sutphen, could you explain further how a fire truck is assembled without human beings???, you think Sutphen uses hand saws and cutting torches to cut out the metals needed for your rig, give me a break. I would assume since you have only looked at Sutphen for 50+ years you would have no idea how other manufacturers assemble their trucks, and for the record, if you look in the county you are from, E-Ones out number Sutphen about 6 to 1, give or take a few.

[stephen morea 1]

what do you guys think of smeal? we are looking at purchasing 1 of 2 trucks for our new pumper it is between a pierce or a smeal personally I love pierce, but it is expensive where the smeal came in on the bid 45 grand less than the pierce. we have a pierce now that has ran 1st due since january of '91 and only now is it starting to give us problems (it has never been refurbed BTW) what do any of you think?

[JetPhoto 626]

My department has 2 KME's a '92 1000 gal. pumper & an '98 2000 Pumper/Tanker. Both on comercial chassis. We have never had a problem with the pumps or the bodys of the trucks. Both are very solid! They will prob. last a very long time. The only problems we ever had was with the international chassis.

I recomend them, they are just as good as any other.

I agree with "SKE#2HAHN" what they H*ll does anyone need a 1.5 Mil. dollar truck for???????

[sr71 1]

ummm, American Lafrance is not Cr*p bud in my point of view. And if ur lookin for some good Apparatus you go Seagrave, ALF, and Pierce.

I ment to quote SR71's first post but I clicke "Fast Reply"

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i personally think its crap like e one (this is my opinion)

and marion is a great truck builder

Edited August 13, 2006 by sr71

[sr71 1]

oo and sutphen makes great towers and ladders my dept loves our 110 foot stick

(its a 94)

[Guest]

as a member of a company who has had sutphens for over 50 years i would never wish to serve in any company with e ones. Why wouldnt anyone not want HANDCRAFTED fire engines. E one is made by machines i personally would rather have a fire truck that actually had time spent on making it then a firetruck that rolls through a assembly line in a hour. Other companys like seagrave and pierce are others that SPEND TIME making there equipment.

[Jared1979 19]

KME builds great trucks however I am not a big fan of the Predator chassis. ALF has a great history but I dont get is this company preference to install whelen sirens on their rigs. Pierce is popular so is Seagrave but every dept has their preference. To most people it is preformance not appearance that is important. E-one makes very good tucks as well so let us not bash a dept for buying KME or Sutphen trucks because they are not bad rigs as many of you say they are

[CPFD91206 0]

I know of a department who has a 1993 KME Falcon and lets just say it wasn't the best "appatrapus" made.

* 2 1000 gal tanks

* 3 Altenators and still was underpowered

* 2 rear ends

* 3 pressure relief valves

* ALL emergency warning lights had to be replaced

* 2 transmissions

* pump housing corroded away

* door mechanisms constantly breaking as well as windows

* drive shaft unbalanced

* fly by night generator where parts had to be shipped from JAPAN direct

* numerous air leaks

* engine bearings

* horrible front end shimmy

* undersized brakes

* leaf springs WAY underrated (4 times)

But they gave us a box of free hats LMAO