Santa Runs- OK To Ride On Top & Tailboards?

[firecapt32 282]

I was in Long Island for christmas Eve when I herd the siren's and the air horns,of course I look to see what was happening. what did I d see A fire truck with at least 500 lights covering it. Front to back , over the pump panel, over the hose bed. With 8 men riding on the hose bed, tossing candy-- Santa all dressed up on the rear step. My sister in law said "ohh how cute" I said " what if the truck hits a car or worse yet a person" her reply" your turning into a scrooge" believe me the truck wasent speeding but it wasent going very slow either.

Who is right?? its ok Im abig boy I can take it??

[Guest WolfEMT]

In my district in NJ, whenever the fire company does the "Santa Run," there is only one guy on top (Santa), and whenever the truck goes onto a moderately-traveled road, Santa comes down off the top. Generally, he is only there while travelling in developments and lower-trafficked roads. I guess in this instance, it's just a matter of exercising common sense.

[cas2383 22]

Oh please its Christmas give it up.

[Guest]

Yes it is Christmas. However it does not matter if it is July 8, dangerous is dangerous. It does not matter if it is Christmas or not you can fall off of the rig on any day of the year at any time while partaking in an activity like this. Yes it is a fun time of the year and it is being done for the community as a good deed, it is still dangerous. Just take a look at the long thread about this type of activity during parades, for those not familiar with that thread it got very heated and was fiercely debated. There is one difference between the two events, the date. Dangerous is dangerous no matter when it is done. Just my 2 cents, call me scrooge if you would like. I know I would rather have my guys safe and healthy.

[Guest]

No, no. He's right. Give it up. People don't die at Christmas.

[firecapt32 282]

I would hate to be the Officer writing out the report-- Fire apparatus damaged during santas run through the town. 2 injured after falling off the hose bed. and by the way-- the apparatus cost apx 900k sorry it will be out of service for a few months while its being repared.--

[dadbo46 50]

Oh please its Christmas give it up.

←

AMEN !

[x152 179]

Oh please its Christmas give it up.

←

Yes, give it up, good idea?

Give up all safety considerations during the Holidays and allow your resident Department "clown" to dress up as Santa, jump atop your $600,000 Trophy Machine and have another half-wit drive the rig as you race through the district with the siren blaring.

Ahh....Christmas.......The only thing missing was that ridiculous HESS truck conversion and a cute YouTube video choreographed to some overplayed metal song.

[Guest x2371]

In Pleasantville when we do the Santa run our members ride in the cab. This was the first year with the new truck. Last year they rode in the jump seats. When it was ok to ride on the step we did now we don't. Kids still love it and all are safe.

[TimesUp 148]

Yes, give it up, good idea?

Give up all safety considerations during the Holidays and allow your resident Department "clown" to dress up as Santa, jump atop your $600,000 Trophy Machine and have another half-wit drive the rig as you race through the district with the siren blaring.

Ahh....Christmas.......The only thing missing was that ridiculous HESS truck conversion and a cute YouTube video choreographed to some overplayed metal song.

←

Yaa!!!! What he said! Theres no such thing as Santa anyway, so get off the rig.

[GFD70 4]

If you want to ride on the back of a truck become a garbage man - otherwise stay in the cab where you belong.

[lad12derff 283]

Yaa!!!!  What he said!  Theres no such thing as Santa anyway, so get off the rig.

←

THERE' NO SANTA????

[grumpyff 1,159]

If you want to ride on the back of a truck become a garbage man - otherwise stay in the cab where you belong.

←

Even sanitation engineers are getting away from riding the backstep. Kids still love Santa, even if he is in an enclosed cab wearing a seatbelt! I have also used the Santa run as an excuse to perform a driver check-up, driver safe operation of the rig over the road, and familiarization of streets in the district. Could even be used to go over pre-fire plans as different parts of the district are covered.

Edited December 26, 2006 by grumpyff

[biglew 3]

I was on Long Island last weekend, and saw a few depts doing the "Santa" run. I did see one that had a more safety conscious idea- Santa was in the bucket of the depts new tower, ( mid mounted tower)

I hadnt seen that before, he was throwing out the candy, but the truck was going very slow; which I think is appropriate. ( LIGHTS AND AIR HORN - NO SIREN)

I dont think anyone wants to take away the fun, its just with the insurance regs and safety we are concerned. Its not about being a scrooge, I was buffing in the 70's when a member from 82 engine (FDNY) fell off the back step and got run over by 31 truck.

BACK STEPS ARE DANGEROUS, THATS WHY WE DONT RUN ON THEM ANYMORE. AND IM NOT BIG ON HAVING SANTA HANGING OUT ON TOP OF THE HOSE BED EITHER !!

[Guest]

Couldn't you fall or be bounced out of the bucket too? Either way doesn't sound that safe too me. Its all fun and games until Santa suffers a basal skull fracture because he fell off the hose bed or bucket of his firetruck - some place he shouldn't have been in the first place.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

A few of the thought processes on this thread is exactly why we often can't get anywhere in the fire service today.

Whether its Santa or a person dressed in bunker gear, no one should nor is permitted to ride anywhere on an apparatus where there isn't a designed seat with a restraint. Christmas, Memorial Day, 4th of July or even the Marine Corps birthday. This includes the bucket of an aerial device. How is that much safer? I've even heard "I know its not right and not all that safe but its a tradition." In regard to riding in the hose bed.

If you are the "manager" of a department whom does santa runs, hosts or go to parades and you allow this you need to re-evaluate what type of "leader" you are. Every department should have a policy regarding personnel riding on apparatus. This includes how to load LDH while an apparatus is in motion which is one of the few times NFPA allows members to be on an apparatus in a non-seated postion. If anyone else knows what the other allowance is you get a bonus. If you allow this to happen you cannot stand behind your policies, SOP's/SOG's. It compromises you as a manager as well.

For those of you whom operate apparatus it clearly states in NFPA you are not to move the apparatus until all passengers are in seated postions with appropriate safety restraints. How many apparatus operators have been charged criminally this year alone from their actions while operating a fire apparatus? How many were charged in the death of one of their own members who died while they were operating? Is it worth it for you? Is it worth it to you chief? Commissioners? Firefighter? Family of the person who could be seriously injured or killed? And for what? To throw a candy cane to a kid, when you could do the same from a seated position.

So no I won't give it up. Whether its Christmas, Hanukka, Ramadan, Kwanzaa or any other excuse or phrase to "eh let it go." Some choose to preach safety, some choose to fight for it, some choose make it happen and then there are those that will throw it out for what they feel is ok to do or "tradition." I'm not the latter, I'm not the kinder, gentler fire service, so I will fight, I will do what I can to make it happen. If you're not smart enough to protect yourself, someone will do it for you.

[hudson144 150]

here we go again,when a serious issue is brought up and some don't like the correct,legal,common sense answer then we get get bashed!!! if you are the driver of the rig you would be a fool to even move because its gonna be your a** in the sling when all goes wrong!!!

[LCFD968 10]

I was in  Long Island for christmas Eve when I herd the siren's  and the air horns,of course I look to see what was happening. what did I d see A fire truck with  at least 500 lights  covering it. Front to back , over the pump panel, over the hose bed. With 8 men riding on the hose bed, tossing candy-- Santa all dressed up on the rear step. My sister in law said  "ohh how cute" I said  " what if the truck hits a car or worse yet a person" her reply" your turning into a scrooge" believe me the truck wasent speeding but it wasent going very slow either.

Who is right??  its ok Im abig  boy I can take it??

←

My Opinion is its fine. A lot of departments need the public relations and thats why they do it. Just as long as your not fooling around, not jumping around or horse playing and you pay attention to what your doing and why your there you'll be fine. When they are outside on the rig it only goes 5 to 10 mph. When the rig goes faster they are in the cab. We don't throw the candy canes our santa get off the rig every street and hands them to the kids.

Yes, I know accidents happen but they can happen when your getting in or out of the cab also. I know Chief Goldfeder would have my head for saying this and I will get bashed because I think its ok but I will continue participating as long as we are aloud to. I will watch over the crew as if they are my kids.

[biglew 3]

I wish that people could agree to disagree without casting aspersions on other people who post here. We all have opinions, isnt that what these forums are all about? Sometimes there is no clear right and wrong, thats called subjectivity. Some depts clearly dont mind putting 15 members on a rig when they are driving to a Memorial day parade, others have more restrictive guidelines.

We shouldn't bash each other. We should opine our thoughts on a given topic with all the sincerity we have. Good ideas that are spread through the words of experience make people think or re-think positions on any given topic or issue.

I beleive there is a common thread to all who read and post, and that is the safety of the public, their colleagues, and the pride in the profession they are in. We might differ in opinions on how to achieve a certain goal, but we can all learn from listening to another voice.

[Guest]

I wish that people could agree to disagree without casting aspersions on other people who post here. We all have opinions, isnt that what these forums are all about?  Sometimes there is no clear right and wrong, thats called subjectivity. Some depts clearly dont mind putting 15 members on a rig when they are driving to a Memorial day parade ( see Danbury, Ct vollie depts) others have more restrictive guidelines.

We shouldn't bash each other. We should opine our thoughts on a given topic with all the sincerity we have.  Good ideas that are spread through the words of experience make people think or re-think positions on any given topic or issue.

I beleive there is a common thread to all who read and post, and that is the safety of the public, their colleagues, and the pride in the profession they are in. We might differ in opinions on how to achieve a certain goal, but we can all learn from listening to another voice.

←

isn't the overriding point of the NFPA standards to offer some sort of congruency in what you can and cannot do as a firefighter or fire department in the United States? If the NFPA says you cannot put people on the hose bed or ladderbucket during apparatus operation, then there really isn't much to disagree with. The simple fact is that the agency designed to protect and control (as much as possible) the environment the firefighter operates in is safe says you cant ride on the hose bed or in the ladder bucket, plain and simple. So really, why would you agree to disagree when its really a matter of someones safety? I mean we aren't talking about which size hose line is best to put out a dumpster fire here. I just don't understand why standards set forth by the NFPA would be ignored, i only wish EMS had a similar agency and representation!

[Arrowxt 8]

Santa rides up front with his seat belt on and gets out to hand out goodies in my district. Otherwise everything we preach at fire prevention(we stress the use of seat belts) is good for nothing.

Arrow

[firecapt32 282]

weeeeohh we are moving right along on this one.Biglew you are correct this kind of a thread is for us to look at what others are doing inthe service. Some of the things will give us a black eye some improve our standing in the community. We should all learn and not be overly bashing each other.

LCFD if thats your public relations you might just concidering doing somthing else to make the public aware of your department-- like maybe giving out smoke detectors/CO detectors.

Grumpy please dont take this the wrong way but you are in a dream world if you think the driver is being quizzed on the streets or there is pre planning going on.

[Doc 11]

As a fire truck riding Santa, I find this whole thread amusing. Yeah, it's dangerous. There are risks to putting my imitiation bowl full of jelly in the hose bed for six hours. I know some moron behind a steering wheel could put my a** in a box in a hose bed. I assume the risk, the district assumes the risk and for no damn reasonable justification other than... it's Christmas.

Now go ahead, flame on and tell me how the terrorists win because I ride on top of a fire truck once a year.

[grumpyff 1,159]

weeeeohh  we are moving right along on this one.Biglew you are correct this kind of a thread is for us to look at what others are doing inthe service. Some of the  things will give us a black eye some improve our standing in the community. We should all learn  and not be overly bashing each other.

LCFD if thats your public relations  you might  just concidering doing somthing else to make the public aware of your department-- like maybe giving out smoke detectors/CO detectors.

Grumpy please dont take this the wrong way  but you are in a dream world if you think  the driver is being quizzed on the streets or there is pre planning  going on.

←

I'm not saying everyone does this, this was something that I did with my drivers.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Fire App. vs Fire App. @ Parade (The Secret List)

December 17, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey...

2 fire apparatus collided during a parade in Pennsylvania that was held for a H.S. football team, injuring 3 firefighters. The apparatus, driving early Saturday, was celebrating the final game of the year for Pottsville. The parade followed a big game, which Pottsville lost, 28-23, to General McLane H.S. in Edinboro. Around 12:20 a.m., traffic stopped and the Mount Carbon Fire Company apparatus rear-ended another apparatus from the East End Fire Company. 3 firefighters were injured, but all were treated and released. Both apparatus were damaged, but Mount Carbon Mayor Jeff Dunkel said he was just grateful no one was seriously injured. "It could have been a lot worse, especially since (one of the firefighters) wasn't wearing a seat belt," Dunkel said.

Great observation, Mayor. And, if a FF was killed, it would have been an, err, uhh, humm, ...an "Official Line of Duty" Death.

Take care-be careful....much of this stuff is so easy to avoid.

Not that there is much that needs to be added here, I think it again proves my point, but Billy G's last sentence says the most "...much of this stuff is so easy to avoid." Lucky this wasn't a santa run? Or they didn't have people packed on because its a parade.

We don't throw the candy canes our santa get off the rig every street and hands them to the kids.

So why not just get out of the cab then?

Sometimes there is no clear right and wrong, thats called subjectivity.

Lew you are right. When we deal with things like tactics, hose lays, stretches. Not in this case it is clearly defined that it is not allowed in any form.

[ex-commish 490]

Santa rides in the cab or walks with the other members.

[Guest]

........... and I will get bashed because I think its ok but I will continue participating as long as we are aloud to.

←

How would you explain to a family member if a member was killed or injured doing this practice? Also curious as to how you secure Santa to the top of the apparatus...where does he stand, and what does he hold on to??

Firefighting is dangerous enough, we shouldn't risk ourselves doing extracurricular activities such as this. Sure, it's good public relations, but does Santa really need to ride on the top of the apparatus?

Do you allow your crews to not wear their seatbelts, or not wear their SCBA's, because the chances of something happening are low, and because you watch over them?

I can see the headlines now "FF Santa Falls Off Rig And Suffers Severe Head Injury- Fire Captain Says It's OK- stuff happens"

I guess that is the difference between us....if I allowed something like that to occur, I would be hung by the union and probaly lose my job.

[hudson144 150]

going back to this past summer,a picture was posted of an engine loaded with members on top of the engine in the hose bed. boy did that dept take a beating.(rightly so) anyway- if it was a 4th of july parade would it be ok to let UNCLE SAM and others to ride on the hose bed because it was the 4th of july? I don't think so. There are accidents and there are "AVOIDABLE ACCIDENTS'' Thats why this thread pertains to all of us because it comes down to the safety of all! Be safe!

[LCFD968 10]

Also curious as to how you secure Santa to the top of the apparatus...where does he stand, and what does he hold on to??

←

Zeer- He rides on either the tailboard or the mid-mount pump area. Again only on short distants.

Let me say this. I stated my opinion to answer FireCapt question NOT TO BE bashed and for what my opinion is to be picked apart and anylized. This seems to be a big problem with this site and it get said over and over by members if someone starts a post stick to the subject do not start picking on the answers people give.

IF you don't like what I say or what my opinion is then feel free to email me or PM me!!!

with that being said , I hope everyone had a nice Holiday!!!

Edited December 28, 2006 by LCFD968

[EMTbravo 312]

Let me say this. I stated my opinion to answer FireCapt question NOT TO BE bashed and for what my opinion is to be picked apart and anylized. This seems to be a big problem with this site and it get said over and over by members if someone starts a post stick to the subject do not start picking on the answers people give.

IF you don't like what I say or what my opinion is then feel free to email me or PM me!!!

←

(This applies to ALL members who share the above notion as said above!)

I've read through this entire thread, and how is anyone bashing you? Because they...obviously expectedly...disagree with your opinion?

This is called a DISCUSSION. Members here come from a wide variety of backgrounds, experience levels, and other differences. Not everyone is going to agree on everything, and some topics will get a bit heated.

If someone disagrees with an opinion YOU POSTED on this thread, then they have a right to respond to you on this thread, as long as it's done respectfully. Again, that's part of a discussion.

Opinions are going to get picked apart, as is everything in the fire service. I feel that a healthy discussion is good, and I learn from reading other's opinions and comments myself. If you are going to say something, then you should be able to stand behind it without getting defensive. Do people actually expect to come on here and willingfully post, state your opinion, and nobody else can say anything?

Therefore, I don't feel having a DISCUSSION is a "big problem" with this site. If you really want to see what flaming (member to member bashing) is, feel free to visit one of the many other sites where it occurs. Although we can't babysit this forum 24/7, we do work hard to control it on here, and feel this specific accusation to us is unfair, and untrue.

(This applies to ALL members!)