Pleasant Valley - MVA MCI Fatal - 5/13/07

[RWC130 594]

Posted By: SPFC56-233

Date: 5-13-07

Time:15:36

Location: Intersection Route 44 and Mill Lane

Frequency: 453.900 (Dispatch) 453.925 (Response) 453.800 (Command) 453.350 (F/G 56) 453.050 (F/G 5/6)

Units Operating: Pleasant Valley 56-12,13,69,71,72, Milbrook 49-55,73, Alamo 4 ALS units,Arlington 32-71,89,East Clinton 38-71 on s/b,Stanford 65-72 on s/b, Roosevelt 63-71 on s/b,Lagrange 47-71 on s/b, CIRT, DCSO,NYSP

Description Of Incident: Serious MVA

Writer:NDP unit on scene SERIOUS MVA w/entrapment/multiple pts/5 Code 99s/1 Medivac canceled (DOA)/ 8 total pts

5 Code 99's and a DOA ??? WOW!

Very Sad....RIP!

[Guest]

Code 99 is a trauma alert?

[64FFMJK 21]

the true tradgy is that it was mothers day and the DOA was an young child. My heart goes out to all the familes involved and the crews that were on the scene.

[64FFMJK 21]

yes code 99 is a trauma alert

[RWC130 594]

CODE 99 = Confirmed Cardiac/Traumatic Arrest w/ CPR in Progress

That is why I am asking.... According to what was posted

5 PT's in Arrest? (5 Code 99's)

Various Fire and EMS agencies that I know of CODE 99 is

CPR in Progress.

Something different in Dutchess?

[Oswegowind 17]

Whew, that is some job. Hope all the responders are coping well.

I was scared until I learned that code 99 was a trauma alert, cause growing up in Peekskill VAC a code 99 was a cardiac arrest.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

CODE 99 = Confirmed Cardiac/Traumatic Arrest w/ CPR in Progress

That is why I am asking.... According to what was posted

5 PT's in Arrest?  (5 Code 99's)

Various Fire and EMS agencies that I know of CODE 99 is

CPR in Progress.

Something different in Dutchess?

←

No, at least not at St. Francis. At Saints, a Code 99 is only an incoming trauma alert, not cardiac/traumatic arrest.

It gets the trauma team assembled/to the ER station where the patient it.

Edited May 14, 2007 by xfirefighter484x

[64FFMJK 21]

Not absolutly sure about this but I am told that one of the vehicles was driven by a mother with 4 children inside. one child doa, all the rest were code 99, one child flown to WMS upon arival at SFH. all the rest were in surgery.

I don't have any info on the other vehicle ocupants

truely a horible day for this to happen.

[Oswegowind 17]

If someone is able to follow this up and keep updating conditions it would be much appreciated.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Thought the Incident Alert said the medevac was canceled?

[Turborich 12]

Not absolutly sure about this but I am told that one of the vehicles was driven by a mother with 4 children inside.  one child doa, all the rest were code 99, one child flown to WMS upon arival at SFH.  all the rest were in surgery.

I don't have any info on the other vehicle ocupants

truely a horible day for this to happen.

←

Damn.. a very sad occurance esp. on mother's day, my prayers go out to all involved with hopes for a speedy recovery.

Also to the responders, this is truly a terrible type of call which is unfortunately nothing new to the Valley (similar incident last year on Rte. 44), definately use the CISD team and help each other out with digesting it all... remember that teamwork doesn't stop once the call is over.

I'm sure all involved did a great job

[RWC130 594]

Eh, who cares about this Code and that Code.....

Much respect for the Emergency Responders

Police, Fire, and EMS.

Bad MVA's are calls we all too often respond too....

CISM is a great thing to have.

GOD BLESS!

[Guest partyrock]

Anyone know if the Trauma alerts were due to mechanism (death in vehicle) or due to actual injuries?

[64FFMJK 21]

Anyone know if the Trauma alerts were due to mechanism (death in vehicle) or due to actual injuries?

←

every one from the vehicle with the DOA are critically injured car had 6 ocupants 1 was unrestrained DOA. every one in the car was a true traume alert due to injurues sustaioned. The car was imposable to determine make or model from photos but is reported to be a lumina per a responder that was on the scene.

[64FFMJK 21]

from the Poughkeepsie Journal

Monday, May 14, 2007

6-year old Poughkeepsie girl dies after Pleasant Valley collision

PLEASANT VALLEY – A six-year old Poughkeepsie girl died Sunday due to injuries sustained that afternoon in a traffic accident.

The girl was traveling westbound on Route 44 in a vehicle driven by her mother, Heather Plain, 37, at 3:37 p.m. when it struck a 1999 Ford Explorer being driven by Senghor Dugger, 27, of Hudson.

Police said Dugger had just turned onto Route 44 from Mill Lane, which he had been traveling northbound on.

Also traveling in Plain’s vehicles were her mother, Connie Hess, 54, of Poughkeepsie, and three other daughters, ages 11, 12 and 13. All were transported to Saint Francis Hospital in Poughkeepsie.

The six-year old soon succumbed to her injuries and was later pronounced dead, New York State Police at Millbrook said.

An investigation is continuing pending autopsy and toxicology reports.

Anyone with any information about the accident is urged to contact state police investigator Erich Schaefer at 845-677-7300.

[PVFD233 68]

Chevy Imapala was the other vehicle, and a damn good job by all.as for the medivac its was canceled via land line to dc911, PVFD did one hell of a extrication and all EMS crews worked very well/ 6 pts in Imapala w/DOA included/and 1 pt from other vehicle that I know of

Incident Alert

Edited May 14, 2007 by SPFC56-233

[x134 46]

I had heard that this family is related to the 22 year old man that was stabbed to death at the Sunoco on Main street a few weeks ago in Arlington.

Edited May 14, 2007 by drobison82

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Good job by all involved, I hope everyone involved is dealing with it effectively.

Somone asked about the medevac, from what I read it was cancelled to the scene. The second update post said a child was flown from St. Francis Hospital.

Also the confusion as some typed about the term Code 99 is exactly why plain english is the way to go.

Very sad for the families involved and always extremely sad to hear about such a young life lost.

[Guest]

Damn

[64FFMJK 21]

1 child was flown to WMS from SFH not the scene. have heard some reports other driver was DUI and fled the scene on foot. was latter aprehended and transported to SFH with lower back pain after sitting in a NYSP car for 45 minutes

[64FFMJK 21]

I had heard that this family is related to the 22 year old man that was stabbed to death at the Sunoco on Main street a few weeks ago in Arlington.

←

Yes they were cousins

[STAT213 332]

And the medevac was cancelled why?

And you think its a good idea to bring 5 trauma patients to one level 2 hospital why?

Sheesh...

[Turborich 12]

And the medevac was cancelled why? 

←

B/c that said patient was in cardiac arrest...

And you think its a good idea to bring 5 trauma patients to one level 2 hospital why?

Sheesh...

←

BTW.. Monday night quarterbacks are NOT appreciated in this case... esp. considering the circumstances! SHEESH BACK TO YOU........

And even so, Pleasant Valley is 15 min. at max from the local level 2 trauma center (SFH) as well as VBMC ....and it is CURRENT HVREMAC protocol to transport all unstable trauma patients to the nearest facilities if accepted following contact for stabilization, then, if needed transported to a specialty center no matter if pediatric or not. Otherwise that is considered a WASTE OF RESOURCES.

I am sure that EMS command contacted the hospital and acertained that the recieving facilities could handle such patients... if you would like to contact them and ask the Rescue Captian's name is John Cassidy... PM for contact details if you would like as well as all of the LT's contact info as well.

I don't give a s*** who you are, how long you have been doing this, or what agency (particularly flight agency) you work for... but in my experience and opinion (as well as the majority of the rest of the community here) I would rather have a patient transported to a local hospital, stabilized, then transported to a specialty center (ie. WMC) than transported by helicopter to a specialty center initially if delay in transport will ensue (in this case more than 45 min). After accounting notification to Lifenet, assembly, warm-up, take off, LZ coordination and communication , landing, stabilizing PT, loading, warm up, taking off, landing, and transferring to the facility the process can take up to 1 hour when a good ground crew can get the patient (granted they are not in cardiac arrest... ahem... ) to the nearest medical facility within 20 minutes.

I can speak from experience, as I was not only a member of PVFD, but was also a rescue line officer, and can tell you that they have a top notch crew and I respect any choices they may have made on that scene. I may not have been on scene, but from my few years in Fire and EMS I can tell you that not only are your comments out of line and unprofessional, but that ANYONE that was outside of that scene, or had nothing to do with it operationally should STFU if they have ANYTHING NEGATIVE TO SAY and should give the department their prayers that they are able to digest the terrible things they had to see that day.

Sincerely,

Richard W. Muellerleile

[hawkbase 21]

My thoughts and prayers for the families, and the crews working this call...trully horrible...and on mother's day!

[STAT213 332]

B/c that said patient was in cardiac arrest...

BTW.. Monday night quarterbacks are NOT appreciated in this case... esp. considering the circumstances! SHEESH BACK TO YOU........

  And even so, Pleasant Valley is 15 min. at max from the local level 2 trauma center (SFH) as well as VBMC ....and it is CURRENT HVREMAC protocol to transport all unstable trauma patients to the nearest facilities if accepted following contact for stabilization, then, if needed transported to a specialty center no matter if pediatric or not. Otherwise that is considered a WASTE OF RESOURCES.

  I am sure that EMS command contacted the hospital and acertained that the recieving facilities could handle such patients... if you would like to contact them and ask the Rescue Captian's name is John Cassidy... PM for contact details if you would like as well as all of the LT's contact info as well.

  I don't give a s*** who you are, how long you have been doing this, or what agency (particularly flight agency) you work for... but in my experience and opinion (as well as the majority of the rest of the community here) I would rather have a patient transported to a local hospital, stabilized, then transported to a specialty center (ie. WMC) than transported by helicopter to a specialty center initially if delay in transport will ensue (in this case more than 45 min). After accounting notification to Lifenet, assembly, warm-up, take off, LZ coordination and communication , landing, stabilizing PT, loading, warm up, taking off, landing, and transferring to the facility the process can take up to 1 hour when a good ground crew can get the patient (granted they are not in cardiac arrest... ahem... ) to the nearest medical facility within 20 minutes.

  I can speak from experience, as I was not only a member of PVFD, but was also a rescue line officer, and can tell you that they have a top notch crew and I respect any choices they may have made on that scene. I may not have been on scene, but from my few years in Fire and EMS I can tell you that not only are your comments out of line and unprofessional, but that ANYONE that was outside of that scene, or had nothing to do with it operationally should STFU if they have ANYTHING NEGATIVE TO SAY and should give the department their prayers that they are able to digest the terrible things they had to see that day.

Sincerely,

Richard W. Muellerleile

←

Well, well. Feathers ruffled already.

So, here is why I posted what I did. First off, I am not looking for a fight. Just dialogue. Hopefully it will be good dialogue. We'll see.

Second, there is this whole theme on this site about not questioning decisions. Why not? Explain more, maybe we can all learn. You don't learn from making the same mistakes time and time again. I like people to ask me why I did something. Don't just hide behind the whole, you weren't there you don't know what I did line from backdraft. What if mistakes were made? We just supposed to accept them because it was a bad call??

So...back to why I posted that. I cannot tell you how many times as a flight medic I have been on standby, or enroute to a call to be cancelled, and then to return to the local hospital to bring the patient where they needed to be, only HOURS later. Those are bad decisions. Going to the local hospital for stabililzation adds hours to the MS trauma patient's adventure. Add to that limited trauma system resources and the difficulty gaining acceptance once the patient is IN a hospital as opposed to sending them directly to a level one center, its just better to move them to a Level One right off the bat.

Five traumas for just about any hospital is WAY too much. Its too much for WMC, they only had one or two trauma teams available when I was there. So, how can a smaller hospital handle that?

How bout this? Call 3 helicopters and send 1 pt to WMC, 1 to pt Albany and 1 to pt Danbury. Or, drive them to the Level one center yourself. It does your patients NO good to overwhelm one hospital, any hospital. MCIs need patients spread out among hospitals. Medevac is a great way to do that. Have you thought of putting four BLS patients in 2 helicopters and moving them somewhere else with a pad?

There are a lot of points in this whole discussion. I hope it doesn't get locked, I think there is a lot to learn here.

Bottom line for me is that this call seems so much like so many calls I have been part of where I had no chance to offer my perspective to the crews on scene. I am taking the chance to offer it here.

Regards,

Rob Atwater

[Oswegowind 17]

He does have a point there. 5 trauma patients is a whole hell of a lot! How often does it happen, thank God not to. My wife is a nurse and I know she would not appreciate 5 traumas at once and she would love to know that someone thought outside the box and did spread the wealth. I am not sure how St Francis works but on a Sunday, how many teams are there, how many OR's are open if needed, and how many Dr's and RN's are on staff in the ER? Yes, it was a difficult job, but Stat is right, there are always things to learn and discuss, and the way it was described with extensive extrication than nobody was probly waiting for a helicopter to land if they were dispatched as soon as realized there could be a necessity!

Then again it is Monday, literally!!!

Yours respectfully,

MFY

Edited May 14, 2007 by Oswegowind

[xfirefighter484x 234]

BTW.. Monday night quarterbacks are NOT appreciated in this case... esp. considering the circumstances! SHEESH BACK TO YOU........

←

Well, well.  Feathers ruffled already. 

So, here is why I posted what I did.  First off, I am not looking for a fight.  Just dialogue.  Hopefully it will be good dialogue.  We'll see. 

Second, there is this whole theme on this site about not questioning decisions.  Why not?

←

Well, in such traumatic situations, maybe it is better it give things a few days to settle down, and THEN start a dialogue.

Just my 2 cents

[64FFMJK 21]

So, here is why I posted what I did.  First off, I am not looking for a fight.  Just dialogue.  Hopefully it will be good dialogue.  We'll see. 

I cannot tell you how many times as a flight medic I have been on standby, or enroute to a call to be cancelled, and then to return to the local hospital to bring the patient where they needed to be, only HOURS later. 

Five traumas for just about any hospital is WAY too much.  Its too much for WMC, they only had one or two trauma teams available when I was there.  So, how can a smaller hospital handle that? 

Bottom line for me is that this call seems so much like so many calls I have been part of where I had no chance to offer my perspective to the crews on scene.  I am taking the chance to offer it here. 

Regards,

Rob Atwater

←

This area has proticals that state what has to be done and how. the best option was to have the medivac meet at the hospital but then proticals say the PT has to be assesed at that hospital before transfer to ensure proper destination. also the crew from the EMS company I work for was 7minutes enroute time from scene to hospital. Yes they were on scene for a prolonged time but they found the MVA and had to handle initial care

Yes 5 traumas is alot for a small hospital to handle. if they were all true traumas I dod not know since I was not there I was dispatching for the call and I called it in to 911.

One thing that needs to come to attention from a call like this is the great job from all on scene with the limited resorces that were avalable.

Several things should be looked at and this sould become a training debreifing latter after the emotions have had a chance to heal. How well is anyone going to react to 4 criticaly injured children in the same car this is truely one of the most dificult types of calls to handle since emotions are going to cload judgments. One of the topics I would like to see come about from this tragic event is detailed and proper local training on triage.

I do apreciate the views of people that are removed from the situation to point out things that could be improved on however please except tha this happened in a very small town area that is going to need some time to heal before moving forward with any formal training relating to this call

also it was not so much whatyou said but the aditude that you construed in your post. I took it as an insult to the people on the scene and their abilitys. As moma always said "its not what you say but how you say it."

Edited May 14, 2007 by 64FFMJK

[Guest]

Well, well.  Feathers ruffled already. 

So, here is why I posted what I did.  First off, I am not looking for a fight.  Just dialogue.  Hopefully it will be good dialogue.  We'll see. 

Second, there is this whole theme on this site about not questioning decisions.  Why not?  Explain more, maybe we can all learn.  You don't learn from making the same mistakes time and time again.  I like people to ask me why I did something.  Don't just hide behind the whole, you weren't there you don't know what I did line from backdraft.  What if mistakes were made?  We just supposed to accept them because it was a bad call??

So...back to why I posted that.  I cannot tell you how many times as a flight medic I have been on standby, or enroute to a call to be cancelled, and then to return to the local hospital to bring the patient where they needed to be, only HOURS later.  Those are bad decisions.  Going to the local hospital for stabililzation adds hours to the MS trauma patient's adventure.  Add to that limited trauma system resources and the difficulty gaining acceptance once the patient is IN a hospital as opposed to sending them directly to a level one center, its just better to move them to a Level One right off the bat. 

Five traumas for just about any hospital is WAY too much.  Its too much for WMC, they only had one or two trauma teams available when I was there.  So, how can a smaller hospital handle that? 

How bout this?  Call 3 helicopters and send 1 pt to WMC, 1 to pt Albany and 1 to pt Danbury.    Or, drive them to the Level one center yourself.  It does your patients NO good to overwhelm one hospital, any hospital.  MCIs need patients spread out among hospitals.  Medevac is a great way to do that.  Have you thought of putting four BLS patients in 2 helicopters and moving them somewhere else with a pad? 

There are a lot of points in this whole discussion.  I hope it doesn't get locked, I think there is a lot to learn here. 

Bottom line for me is that this call seems so much like so many calls I have been part of where I had no chance to offer my perspective to the crews on scene.  I am taking the chance to offer it here. 

Regards,

Rob Atwater

←

It's always been my understanding that a patient in traumatic arrest should not be transported by air, rather transported to the nearest facility to be stabilized. Is this not the case?

Likewise, would it even be feasible to fly out 5 patients? That seems like an awful lot of resources - some of which would be coming from farther upstate with a pretty long response time.

If the original chopper was called for the patient who passed away, it might have been a better idea to continue it in and request a second chopper. Send the next two most critical patients off to Westchester and bring the next two to Saints.

Also, does the flight medic/nurse determine the chopper's destination?

STAT brings up a very valid point here. While it might have have been the best method of conveying his message, it is a very valid concern and should be a topic of discussion. Often we find ourselves in pretty sh*tty situations, situations in which most people would panic/lose their minds. We cant afford to panic. We get paid or volunteer to be calm and think logically. Regardless of who's involved. At the same time, we have to be critical of ourselves in order to improve our service.

[tdc202 0]

Here's what I just got from the Poughkeepsie Journal web site

Police charge driver in accident that killed 6-year-old girl

The man involved in a crash Sunday that led to the death of a 6-year-old Poughkeepsie girl was arraigned at St. Francis Hospital this afternoon.

Senghor Dugger, 27, was charged with several vehicle and traffic offenses, including second-degree vehicular manslaughter, a felony, at about 2 p.m. In addition, Dugger faces a parole violation. He's on parole for a robbery conviction in 1998.

Dugger was driving a 1999 Ford Explorer in Pleasant Valley Sunday when it crashed into a car driven by 34-year-old Heather Plain of the Town of Poughkeepsie, according to police accounts. Heather's daughter, Madison, was one of five passengers in the vehicle. She died shortly after the accident.

Police say Dugger turned onto Route 44 from Mill Lane, on which he had been traveling northbound, when his car collided with Plain's vehicle, which was headed west on Route 44. He allegedly ran a stop sign, according to Robert Rochler, an investigator with the state police in Millbrook.

Results are still pending from a blood test that was administered to Dugger. But Rochler said Dugger admitted at the scene he had been drinking. He was coming from a party when the accident occurred, according to Rochler.

Police did not know how long Dugger would remain in the hospital Monday.

“He's being treated for a back injury, but I'm not sure how severe it is,” Rochler said.

Also traveling in Heather Plain’s vehicle Sunday were her mother, Connie Hess, 54, of Poughkeepsie, and three other daughters, ages 11, 12 and 13. All were transported to Saint Francis Hospital in Poughkeepsie.

The six-year-old succumbed to her injuries and was later pronounced dead, state police said. An autopsy is expected to be completed tomorrow, according to Rochler.

The tragedy was the second for the Plain family in recent weeks. Madison's first cousin, Aaron Plain, 22, was fatally stabbed April 27 at a Sunoco station on Main Street in the City of Poughkeepsie, Rochler said.

Anyone with any information about Sunday's accident is urged to contact state police investigator Erich Schaefer at 845-677-7300.