An Absolute disgrace

[lad12derff 283]

Let me start by saying how disgusted I am with this entire membership. You will all sit here and call yourselves "brothers" and pat yourselves on the back for BS fires and calls you go to, Blow smoke up yourselves butts, and cry when someone questions your "dedication" to the fire service. X635 posts a topic for all members to pay your respects to our departed Brothers and all you do is look at it and go to the next topic. You guys are nothing but a miserable bunch of "BUFFS". You spent more time talking about MY BROTHERS FROM FDNY ( I CAN SAY THAT CAUSE I POSTED MY CONDOLENCE TO THEM) WHO DIED IN THE LINE OF DUTY AND TALK ABOUT THE OPERATIONS OF THE JOB AND ALL THE OTHER BUFF B>S> THAT YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT AND DON"T PAY YOUR RESPECTS!!!!!! YOU GUYS ABSOLUTLY DISGUST ME!!!!!!!! I am so pissed of right now only seeing 12 and 14 relplies to this topic and 327 members on line in the last 60 minutes. YOU GUYS SHOULD SHUT UP ABOUT THE BULL AND DO THE RIGHT THING FOR ALL OF FIVE FRIGGIN SECONDs.

LT DANIEL HEINTZ

NEW ROCHELLE FIRE

IAFF LOCAL 273

[CTFF 65]

Paying respect online is not doing the right thing it is a step in the right direction, the proper way to pay respect is to attend LODD funerals every time you can.

[lad12derff 283]

Paying respect online is not doing the right thing it is a step in the right direction, the proper way to pay respect is to attend LODD funerals every time you can.

BS. So asking for pics of the fire online is the right thing? A fire where 2 brothers died. Pretty morbid to me. x 635 asked for condolences to be posted so he can pass them along to the fallen's family and or company. This is to much to ask? Well don't post then and I hope to see you at both funerals.

[x635 4,066]

I have to agree. How hard is it just to post?

The thread with for Daniel Pujdak was sent to the family (which I had to rally people to post on it) and appreciated, and I'd like to do the same for these two brothers.

Although it's just an internet site, sometimes littles things like this go a long way. Think of it as a big condolence card. Think of being on the recieving end, and besides being at a funeral and wake, things like this matter too.

I also can't understand why people won't post at least a word or two? You don't even have to be a Verified Member to post your condolences, anyone registered can.

It's all about priorities.

[Guest]

lad12derff is right, this such a small thing to ask; but will mean the world to the firefighters' family, that family, friends and strangers are all thinking of there sons and praying for the families.

nautrally, this also pertains to the "Michael Greco EMT..." post

its such a small thing to ask, that really shouldn't have had to be asked.

Edited August 21, 2007 by vacguy

[x635 4,066]

Oh yes, same goes for our EMS brother, Michael Greco. I really don't want to print and send these threads with only a few posts, the more people that show their support, the stronger the message from our COMMUNITY here. Takes two seconds, hit the "Add Reply" button, and post. I don't want to beg or persuade anyone to do the right thing, but the longer I am in the fire service...that seems to be the way things work.

[16fire5 693]

I have to agree with the brother who mentioned the funerals. It seems as if the turnout for LODD Funerals outside of the FDNY are piss poor. I have posted on this topic on the Rant too because I was pretty ashamed of the turnout for the brother from North Hudson who died last year. And the same goes for the last vollie funeral I attended bad showing but plenty of rigs (leave em home). The turnout for the funeral leaves a lasting impression on the family they have told me first hand. To the brothers who turnout whenever you can my hats off to you.

[BIGRED1 71]

I have to agree with the no one going to Vollie funerals. It seems like a lot of people just go to the FDNY funerals cause "it's the FDNY and I can hang out with them" kinda mentality. I am sure it is the same in say Chicago or Boston or LA or any "Big City" department. The people want to say they went but how many are fighting to get into the church or actually go to the cemetery (if the family will let people go. some want it to be private which is their choice). I will say that I have never been to the cemetery, I do try and get in the church just to say a prayer, then I go outside join the long line of Brothers and shut my mouth and be respectful. And posting a condolence takes 5 seconds. you don't need to write a novel. Some people just post R.I.P. which is really all you have to post (but try and post a little more).

As a side, for any newer/ younger members of the fire service, when you do go to a funeral and you are outside, don't horse around. i know this sounds like common sense but remember that all eyes are on you. people in that neighborhood are watching us all and if you are kidding around with someone you came with it does not look professional.

[Dondestro 9]

I have to agree with the no one going to Vollie funerals. It seems like a lot of people just go to the FDNY funerals cause "it's the FDNY and I can hang out with them" kinda mentality. I am sure it is the same in say Chicago or Boston or LA or any "Big City" department. The people want to say they went but how many are fighting to get into the church or actually go to the cemetery (if the family will let people go. some want it to be private which is their choice). I will say that I have never been to the cemetery, I do try and get in the church just to say a prayer, then I go outside join the long line of Brothers and shut my mouth and be respectful. And posting a condolence takes 5 seconds. you don't need to write a novel. Some people just post R.I.P. which is really all you have to post (but try and post a little more).

As a side, for any newer/ younger members of the fire service, when you do go to a funeral and you are outside, don't horse around. i know this sounds like common sense but remember that all eyes are on you. people in that neighborhood are watching us all and if you are kidding around with someone you came with it does not look professional.

Very well said.

[biglew 3]

You know, I think I have to agree with lad12derff.

He might have sounded harsh, but he's accurate. I have been to funerals for firefighters and cops, I would say 10, during the past 10 years or so, and sometimes the turnout is miserable. I understand, there have been snowstorms, downpours, etc, but these are brothers and sisters we are talking about. If we call them that, as we always do, would you miss a funeral for your biological brother or sister? I highly doubt it.

Here's the way I see it, and you must all know that I am not currently a member of any volunteer organziation or paid department; I am just a " buff" or enthusiast right now. I do not write for any publications any longer. However, in 25 years of following the FDNY, LI and Westchester ( and now CT) I think funeral turnout is way down. High profile cases get big turnouts, less known events get poorer showings of people. I go as a civilian, or sometimes I go with my brother ( if its a PD funeral) who is a commander with a State Police agency.

Somehow its seems to me, and you guys tell me if you disagree here, I feel the manner of death affects the turnout for the funeral. Whether its a Waterbury FF getting ejected from an engine, or a cop getting run over at a construction job, I feel the turnouts are good from the local area, but not from further away. Especially vollie funerals, locally strong, but not that good from a distance. Maybe there is a bias, not sure, maybe its because vollies have other jobs and its not as easy to get time off, if a paid member wants to go represent his department, they will let him go, most of the time on the departments time, and if not , then on his own personal time.

Botton line is (my opinion) we have a lot of new people on this EMT Bravo network, a lot of younger, inexperienced people, who have not seen what some of us have seen. Maybe they dont know the importance of showing your comraderrie. Maybe they are all into rigs, and radios, and photography, and lights, to realize this funeral represents the final call for that member. Maybe they dont realize a family is irrevocably broken. I realize alot of people cant get off from work, or have other commitments, but can you sign a condolence thread?

Here's the way I see it. If I can be on the Grand Concourse in the rain taking pictures when LT. Karpluk and FF Reilly are trapped in a basement ( and I was) then I sure as hell can be there to say thanks and goodbye.

I am sure the turnout will be huge for the two brothers who perished on Saturday. Can we all bow our head for one second and thank the Lord its not our wives and kids that will be crying this week.

One last thing that irks me. If you can't fit into your Class A uniform, get another one. Like an earlier post said, people are watching, and it maybe your gut hanging out on the news, with your shoulder patch.

Its Ok to mingle with friends and collegues after the funeral, but lets not forget why we are there.

OK I'm done, lets see who agrees with me and who doesn't.

[LCFD968 10]

Let me start by saying how disgusted I am with this entire membership. You will all sit here and call yourselves "brothers" and pat yourselves on the back for BS fires and calls you go to, Blow smoke up yourselves butts, and cry when someone questions your "dedication" to the fire service. X635 posts a topic for all members to pay your respects to our departed Brothers and all you do is look at it and go to the next topic. You guys are nothing but a miserable bunch of "BUFFS". You spent more time talking about MY BROTHERS FROM FDNY ( I CAN SAY THAT CAUSE I POSTED MY CONDOLENCE TO THEM) WHO DIED IN THE LINE OF DUTY AND TALK ABOUT THE OPERATIONS OF THE JOB AND ALL THE OTHER BUFF B>S> THAT YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT AND DON"T PAY YOUR RESPECTS!!!!!! YOU GUYS ABSOLUTLY DISGUST ME!!!!!!!! I am so pissed of right now only seeing 12 and 14 relplies to this topic and 327 members on line in the last 60 minutes. YOU GUYS SHOULD SHUT UP ABOUT THE BULL AND DO THE RIGHT THING FOR ALL OF FIVE FRIGGIN SECONDs.

LT DANIEL HEINTZ

NEW ROCHELLE FIRE

IAFF LOCAL 273

Just because you think its right to type a message doesn't mean its for everyone. No reason to fly off the handle. Talking about the call in a thread is how some people express themselves and that should be good enough..

Paying respect online is not doing the right thing it is a step in the right direction, the proper way to pay respect is to attend LODD funerals every time you can.

Who are you to tell me the proper way to pay respect? and that goes to the guy above this quote..

As a side, for any newer/ younger members of the fire service, when you do go to a funeral and you are outside, don't horse around. i know this sounds like common sense but remember that all eyes are on you. people in that neighborhood are watching us all and if you are kidding around with someone you came with it does not look professional.

so the people that come out to the funeral are now not respectful enough for you. You are going to tell us how to act now?

You know, I think I have to agree with lad12derff.

He might have sounded harsh, but he's accurate. I have been to funerals for firefighters and cops, I would say 10, during the past 10 years or so, and sometimes the turnout is miserable. I understand, there have been snowstorms, downpours, etc, but these are brothers and sisters we are talking about. If we call them that, as we always do, would you miss a funeral for your biological brother or sister? I highly doubt it.

Here's the way I see it, and you must all know that I am not currently a member of any volunteer organziation or paid department; I am just a " buff" or enthusiast right now. I do not write for any publications any longer. However, in 25 years of following the FDNY, LI and Westchester ( and now CT) I think funeral turnout is way down. High profile cases get big turnouts, less known events get poorer showings of people. I go as a civilian, or sometimes I go with my brother ( if its a PD funeral) who is a commander with a State Police agency.

Somehow its seems to me, and you guys tell me if you disagree here, I feel the manner of death affects the turnout for the funeral. Whether its a Waterbury FF getting ejected from an engine, or a cop getting run over at a construction job, I feel the turnouts are good from the local area, but not from further away. Especially vollie funerals, locally strong, but not that good from a distance. Maybe there is a bias, not sure, maybe its because vollies have other jobs and its not as easy to get time off, if a paid member wants to go represent his department, they will let him go, most of the time on the departments time, and if not , then on his own personal time.

Botton line is (my opinion) we have a lot of new people on this EMT Bravo network, a lot of younger, inexperienced people, who have not seen what some of us have seen. Maybe they dont know the importance of showing your comraderrie. Maybe they are all into rigs, and radios, and photography, and lights, to realize this funeral represents the final call for that member. Maybe they dont realize a family is irrevocably broken. I realize alot of people cant get off from work, or have other commitments, but can you sign a condolence thread?

Here's the way I see it. If I can be on the Grand Concourse in the rain taking pictures when LT. Karpluk and FF Reilly are trapped in a basement ( and I was) then I sure as hell can be there to say thanks and goodbye.

I am sure the turnout will be huge for the two brothers who perished on Saturday. Can we all bow our head for one second and thank the Lord its not our wives and kids that will be crying this week.

One last thing that irks me. If you can't fit into your Class A uniform, get another one. Like an earlier post said, people are watching, and it maybe your gut hanging out on the news, with your shoulder patch.

Its Ok to mingle with friends and collegues after the funeral, but lets not forget why we are there.

OK I'm done, lets see who agrees with me and who doesn't.

And now your telling us how to dress and act!!!

I don't understand what is going on here. You are dictating What we should wear, How we should act and how to grieve. Is this the CHANGE that STARTS HERE? For you tell us how to properly Mourn and act at funerals!!

Edited August 21, 2007 by LCFD968

[firemoose827 324]

Just because you think its right to type a message doesn't mean its for everyone. No reason to fly off the handle. Talking about the call in a thread is how some people express themselves and that should be good enough..

Who are you to tell me the proper way to pay respect? and that goes to the guy above this quote..

so the people that come out to the funeral are now not respectful enough for you. You are going to tell us how to act now?

And now your telling us how to dress and act!!!

I don't understand what is going on here. You are dictating What we should wear, How we should act and how to grieve. Is this the CHANGE that STARTS HERE? For you tell us how to properly Mourn and act at funerals!!

You have the wrong attitude to be a firefighter... none of these brothers are dictating how we should dress or act, TRADITION, HONOR, BROTHERHOOD, are what tells us how to act. If you cant be respectful and professional at a brothers funeral....why are you there? I agree with everything that has been said so far, If you cant take 5 seconds to show your respects to fallen brothers and their families than dont you dare say "Brother" anywhere ever again.

If you cant go to a funeral of a fallen firefighter dressed professionally and act respectfully....you DISRESPECT that fallen brother and make the rest of us look like morons...I for one will not stand for that.

Lad12derff...I hope you see that there are a few of us who DO care, and we respect our bretheren like we should and we are THERE for them when you need us. I'm old school firefighter, Im here for ALL of my brothers and sisters ALL of the time, and I hope you see that in most of us. Dont throw the rest of us in the bag because this site is mostly young, new, untested firefighters who forgot about respect and tradition and walk all over their senior firefighters. I didnt spend 4 years in the junior fire dept saluting chiefs when they walked into a room, running bottles all over the fire scene and fetching things for other firefighters whenever they asked WITHOUT QUESTION just to be disrespected by some snotty punk who thinks that taking firefighter I grants him/her full privelages and the right to brag...I have 20 years in the fire service and have seen many brothers laid to rest, have attended many funerals( When my boss allows me) and never once have I experienced whats going on in this thread or this site in general. Lad12derff, it disgusts me too, maybe those of us "oldtime" firefighters who are left should meet somewhere for a beer!!!

Tradition...Brotherhood...Honor...Where did it all go? It went out the window when peoples heads got bigger and their egos became more important than values...today its all about glitz and glamour...making videos of "heros" and showing off...running to the scene lights and sirens even when you dont need them...its depressing to me to see todays fire service. Its a social club. We need to turn it back to a fire service and get some discipline and respect back.

Sorry for ranting and Im sorry if I offended some of you younger ff's but its not all of you Im mad at...SOME of you actually respect your elders and still do the right thing.

Everyone stay safe and watch each others backs...wer'e family.

Moose

[lad12derff 283]

Just because you think its right to type a message doesn't mean its for everyone. No reason to fly off the handle. Talking about the call in a thread is how some people express themselves and that should be good enough..

Who are you to tell me the proper way to pay respect? and that goes to the guy above this quote..

so the people that come out to the funeral are now not respectful enough for you. You are going to tell us how to act now?

And now your telling us how to dress and act!!!

I don't understand what is going on here. You are dictating What we should wear, How we should act and how to grieve. Is this the CHANGE that STARTS HERE? For you tell us how to properly Mourn and act at funerals!!

WILL NEVER BE MY BROTHER

[lad12derff 283]

You have the wrong attitude to be a firefighter... none of these brothers are dictating how we should dress or act, TRADITION, HONOR, BROTHERHOOD, are what tells us how to act. If you cant be respectful and professional at a brothers funeral....why are you there? I agree with everything that has been said so far, If you cant take 5 seconds to show your respects to fallen brothers and their families than dont you dare say "Brother" anywhere ever again.

If you cant go to a funeral of a fallen firefighter dressed professionally and act respectfully....you DISRESPECT that fallen brother and make the rest of us look like morons...I for one will not stand for that.

Lad12derff...I hope you see that there are a few of us who DO care, and we respect our bretheren like we should and we are THERE for them when you need us. I'm old school firefighter, Im here for ALL of my brothers and sisters ALL of the time, and I hope you see that in most of us. Dont throw the rest of us in the bag because this site is mostly young, new, untested firefighters who forgot about respect and tradition and walk all over their senior firefighters. I didnt spend 4 years in the junior fire dept saluting chiefs when they walked into a room, running bottles all over the fire scene and fetching things for other firefighters whenever they asked WITHOUT QUESTION just to be disrespected by some snotty punk who thinks that taking firefighter I grants him/her full privelages and the right to brag...I have 20 years in the fire service and have seen many brothers laid to rest, have attended many funerals( When my boss allows me) and never once have I experienced whats going on in this thread or this site in general. Lad12derff, it disgusts me too, maybe those of us "oldtime" firefighters who are left should meet somewhere for a beer!!!

Tradition...Brotherhood...Honor...Where did it all go? It went out the window when peoples heads got bigger and their egos became more important than values...today its all about glitz and glamour...making videos of "heros" and showing off...running to the scene lights and sirens even when you dont need them...its depressing to me to see todays fire service. Its a social club. We need to turn it back to a fire service and get some discipline and respect back.

Sorry for ranting and Im sorry if I offended some of you younger ff's but its not all of you Im mad at...SOME of you actually respect your elders and still do the right thing.

Everyone stay safe and watch each others backs...wer'e family.

Moose

WILL ALWAYS BE MY BROTHER

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I'm on both sides of this argument and see both sides of the opinions.

Do I generally post a condolence? I can pretty much say yes. Did I often think about it before I did it, yes I did. Who is to say that the family may appreciate getting them or anyone else involved. I know of a spouse who's husband died and she hates and doesn't speak to the brothers who survived the day her husband perished. I often wonder if typing condolences on a forum isn't somewhat cold and inappropriate and if it was my family or I would be getting them because my brother had died I don't know what I would feel if and when I would get something like that.

To be honest with all of you if some of you feel that the measure of a "brother" is whether or not they post a condolence I can't side with that. To me the measure is whether or not you learn from what happened in regard to the LODD and try to stop if from happening again.

To each their own. There are people who don't go to wakes and funerals for their own personal reasons, whether it be they can't handle it or they never had to have or were given the life experience of attending one. They can often be difficult events as many of us know and its a personal choice. I worry about me first and then if I have time I worry about others.

As far as whoever wanted to get into the whole "so your gonna tell us how to act and what to wear," discussion. Yes...If you are dressed inappropriately or someone is acting inappropriately I will say something and yes I will tell you how you should be. This is my profession and I consider myself to be a fire service leader and anyone else who is would also do the same.

[lad12derff 283]

I'm on both sides of this argument and see both sides of the opinions.

Do I generally post a condolence? I can pretty much say yes. Did I often think about it before I did it, yes I did. Who is to say that the family may appreciate getting them or anyone else involved. I know of a spouse who's husband died and she hates and doesn't speak to the brothers who survived the day her husband perished. I often wonder if typing condolences on a forum isn't somewhat cold and inappropriate and if it was my family or I would be getting them because my brother had died I don't know what I would feel if and when I would get something like that.

To be honest with all of you if some of you feel that the measure of a "brother" is whether or not they post a condolence I can't side with that. To me the measure is whether or not you learn from what happened in regard to the LODD and try to stop if from happening again.

To each their own. There are people who don't go to wakes and funerals for their own personal reasons, whether it be they can't handle it or they never had to have or were given the life experience of attending one. They can often be difficult events as many of us know and its a personal choice. I worry about me first and then if I have time I worry about others.

As far as whoever wanted to get into the whole "so your gonna tell us how to act and what to wear," discussion. Yes...If you are dressed inappropriately or someone is acting inappropriately I will say something and yes I will tell you how you should be. This is my profession and I consider myself to be a fire service leader and anyone else who is would also do the same.

Jonesy said it best. It is about honor and tradition and respect that earns you the right to be called brother. People use that term to loosely and should know what it means. You cannot instill the values that real firefighters have inside. You can't teach a man to shed a tear for someone he does not know, that comes from what you have in your heart. The fire service is in sad shape today with all the ME attitudes that are around. I am glad I am on the backside of my career cause you can't teach "HONOR,RESPECT,COURAGE OR TRADITION and that is what the new members entering seem to lack.

[PVFD233 68]

WILL NEVER BE MY BROTHER

What kind of piss poor attitude is that. Not just that what a disgrace to get in a argument in a thread on the internet while these mens familys mourn their loss.

I personally don't think you need to get a million post on a LODD thread just to show you are mourning. The real issue is these peoples families and the whole Fire Service , not a thread.

Edited August 21, 2007 by SPFC56-233

[CTFF 65]

I am glad I am on the backside of my career cause you can't teach "HONOR,RESPECT,COURAGE OR TRADITION and that is what the new members entering seem to lack.

I am frankly sick of hearing about what new members lack. New members need to be taught, can be taught and want to learn. But lets blame the problem on the student and not the teacher, right? It's sad to say but good mentors are few and far between. I've learned more lessons of what not to do by watching people as opposed to watching people do the right thing in the fire service, yet some how as a younger guy this is my fault?

Honor can be taught, the military has been doing it for years.

Respect can be taught. You can demand respect so people learn to respect you, or you can show respect so people understand it.

Courage can be taught, trainging can teach it. You are just doing your job.

Traditions can be taught and are passed down everyday. I'm thankfull I've been around enough guys who enjoy passing the traditions on.

[RescueKujo 130]

Jonsey,

Great post, Brother. Too many people these days just don't get it. They want to be on the JOB, but only think of it as a job afterwards. They lack the integrity involved in all 3 public safety fields, Law Enforcement, EMS and Fire. Honor, Respect, Courage or Tradition should not just be words on a wall in a firehouse or academy building, they should be instilled values throughout our careers.

CTFF,

Your post also follows the same lines. These values must be taught to the people coming into our professions. However, it has been my experience for oh too many years that if the person receiving the lesson will not listen, you can attempt evrything in the book and they will not comprehend the values mentioned above.

Edited August 21, 2007 by RescueKujo

[antiquefirelt 994]

Once again ALS you've hit it on the head. I hope like hell everyone of us in some way mourns the loss of every brother in their own way. I applaud X635 for starting a thread to show the families just how widespread this brotherhood is. Initially I read Lad12der 12's post and thought, man I feel torn. Do I mourn? Of course. Do I need to prove it to everyone else? Not in my eyes. But taking it to the pint where you disavow other brethren for not agreeing with your personal views on how to show respect is a little beyond necessary. I too cringe to see firefighters in uniform shirts with jeans and sneakers at funerals, but they are there, showing their support in their capacity, so I just shrug it off.

Being fairly non-religious I find posting condolences is difficult. It's hard to express my sentiments without using some sort of eternal hope or statement that someone is being taken care of. I often start to post and when I reread it, it seems to lack the heartfeltness that others seem to have. Therefore, I often just read the condolences and hope that my brothers led a fulfilled life and died doing what they loved to do. I also think of the sadness of the families and the close brothers that must directly deal with the impact. Lastly, I honor these firefighters by learning how they died so that we may discuss and learn from these tragedies so that we might prevent future injuries or deaths.

The above being said, I will post my condolences so that Seth may pass along to the families how the fire service as a whole goes on with heavy hearts felt for those we have a deep connection with, though we've never met.

[TCD0415 26]

All good posts, good points on all sides.

Lets not forget what started the thread though.

The loss of 2 of our brothers.

I am thinking that this is turning into a slinging mud fest and is not a way to honor their sacrifice.

[firemoose827 324]

I'm on both sides of this argument and see both sides of the opinions.

Do I generally post a condolence? I can pretty much say yes. Did I often think about it before I did it, yes I did. Who is to say that the family may appreciate getting them or anyone else involved. I know of a spouse who's husband died and she hates and doesn't speak to the brothers who survived the day her husband perished. I often wonder if typing condolences on a forum isn't somewhat cold and inappropriate and if it was my family or I would be getting them because my brother had died I don't know what I would feel if and when I would get something like that.

To be honest with all of you if some of you feel that the measure of a "brother" is whether or not they post a condolence I can't side with that. To me the measure is whether or not you learn from what happened in regard to the LODD and try to stop if from happening again.

To each their own. There are people who don't go to wakes and funerals for their own personal reasons, whether it be they can't handle it or they never had to have or were given the life experience of attending one. They can often be difficult events as many of us know and its a personal choice. I worry about me first and then if I have time I worry about others.

As far as whoever wanted to get into the whole "so your gonna tell us how to act and what to wear," discussion. Yes...If you are dressed inappropriately or someone is acting inappropriately I will say something and yes I will tell you how you should be. This is my profession and I consider myself to be a fire service leader and anyone else who is would also do the same.

ALS, I just wanted to clarify some of my points (peacefully ) I agree with you. I wasnt implying that the ONLY measure of a brother was an e-mail condolence....simply that to respect each other, and respect the tradition of the fire service. What LCFD968 wrote realy agrivated me to no end...it almost sounds as if he doesnt care if a group of firefighters starts goofing off at a funeral, or that they show up with their shirts untucked and their guts hanging out, he is simply mad that someone "tells" him what to do. In the fire service, or atleast the one I KNEW, you are supposed to receive orders from your officers; on and off the scene, at any dept function you go to. The fire service has lost that respect and tradition. A lot of guys just do whatever they want and say "The hell with you and your laws" and that needs to be addressed. I know its slightly off topic but it is related to this discussion. No one respects the fire service or their bretheren any more....to all of you who still value the traditions and brotherhood, and hold a sense of honor whenever you wear the uniform/gear...your my brother/sister also.

How does it work with you paid guys ALS? Do you have dress codes and stuff for funerals and other dept functions? I was also curious if they make it mandatory to respond to funerals or if its your own decision? Just curious, thanks ALS.

Family...stay safe

moose

[antiquefirelt 994]

All good posts, good points on all sides.

Lets not forget what started the thread though.

The loss of 2 of our brothers.

I am thinking that this is turning into a slinging mud fest and is not a way to honor their sacrifice.

Excellant point!

[firemoose827 324]

Jonsey,

Great post, Brother. Too many people these days just don't get it. They want to be on the JOB, but only think of it as a job afterwards. They for the integrity involved in all 3 public safety fields, Law Enforcement, EMS and Fire. Honor, Respect, Courage or Tradition should not just be words on a wall in a firehouse or academy building, they should be instilled values throughout our careers.

CTFF,

Your post also follows the same lines. These values must be taught to the people coming into our professions. However, it has been my experience for oh too many years that if the person receiving the lesson will not listen, you can attempt evrything in the book and they will not comprehend the values mentioned above.

Exactly what I meant by disrespecting their senior firefighters. Excellent post brother, sorry for the multiple posts but we had a fire in between all of this and Im trying to keep up!!!!! Sorry.

[DOC22 1]

name='TCD0415' date='Aug 21 2007, 09:59 AM' post='101402']

All good posts, good points on all sides.

Lets not forget what started the thread though.

The loss of 2 of our brothers.

I am thinking that this is turning into a slinging mud fest and is not a way to honor their sacrifice.

Great Post! I agree, als did hit it on the head. I agree with you that this thread is getting out of hand. I, for one, have not posted in every condolence thread. Sometimes I just can't come up with anything better than the generic RIP, and for me that just doesn't cut it.

Now it's time to stop and think. as this thread grows , it IS starting to get away from the original topic. WE all know the feelings here, but enough is enough. Let's get back to a more sane conversation. I think if these heros could see what this turning into, I wonder how far out of control this is getting. JMHO

[Guest]

I personally don't think you need to get a million post on a LODD thread just to show you are mourning. The real issue is these peoples families and the whole Fire Service , not a thread.

EXACTLY!! ...BUT when x635 ( u know, the founder of this site) asks for a selfless favor from the thousands of members he has, why the hell can't you guys and gals do it?!?

this favor only has to do w/ him giving something to the families of the LODD to show people out there are thinking about them and there sons!!! That is why this is considered such a disgrace!!

Edited August 21, 2007 by vacguy

[firemoose827 324]

Great Post! I agree, als did hit it on the head. I agree with you that this thread is getting out of hand. I, for one, have not posted in every condolence thread. Sometimes I just can't come up with anything better than the generic RIP, and for me that just doesn't cut it.

Now it's time to stop and think. as this thread grows , it IS starting to get away from the original topic. WE all know the feelings here, but enough is enough. Let's get back to a more sane conversation. I think if these heros could see what this turning into, I wonder how far out of control this is getting. JMHO

Youre right...I apologise. Its a passionate thing for me and with all of the LODD it just hits home...sorry all.

Moose

[biglew 3]

Nobody was trying to tell anyone how to dress at a funeral. I mentioned that there are alot of people who should look in the mirror ( literally) before they go out in their class A's. Maybe they have had that uniform 7, 8 10 years.

You want to look professional, youre there to pay respect, not just to show up. You dont have to be MR. GQ, but you can look presentable.

Two brothers died here, and there will unfortunately be countless others, thats the nature of the job, there is inherent risk. Dont go to a funeral because you feel you have to, go because you WANT to go, to let others know you care, and support them in their time of grief. I have been to LODD funerals in Delaware, Maryland, PA, ( when I lived in NY) and it does make a difference to the grieving family.

When they see a shoulder patch that says some dept in NY, they recognize the effort and sincerity in your being there.

This thread is getting ridiculous, there is a protocol in structered organiztions, rules are supposed to be followed, funerals are not FD carnivals. Its not a beer-fest. If you can't honor the fallen, stay home.

I dont blame newcomers to the job for their inexperience, the old timers/chiefs need to teach tradition, or tradition will die, then we can blame ourselves. Time does change, tradition doesnt have to.

[Guest]

How many so called real(career) ffs. have either posted a condolence and/or attended a Volunteer ff's. wake or funeral. I guarantee ya not to many, so STOP the B/S! Don't dictate what people should do, who are you, the bereavement police. I pay my respects anyway I want and that's usually by attending the funeral, not by posting on a web site! I mean really, how many times does the family have to see RIP Brother, GOD Bless You! What a bunch of Blowhards!