Update on Stamford Merger

[Guest Sqd47]

Original call was for a fire in the fireplace getting out of control

In today's Advocate:

Shortly before 9 p.m., he left his guests to check on a fireplace in another room. Hearing crackling in the walls, he ran out to the porch, where the entire back yard flickered orange. Embers flew from the house 60 feet in the air.

[x242Steve 1]

...the mayor said... "Here we are years after Sept. 11, and we don't have a unified fire service. I'm troubled by it."

I'm troubled by you using 9/11 as part of your argument, boss. But I can't say I disagree with you or the SFRD on the overall issue! I am just hoping I'm not the one who answers the phone next time Susie Q. Taxpayer asks "Why aren't they here?" I am not a fan of under-trained people hiding the truth and defending their under-manned systems and then deflecting blame onto those who try to save their a$$es time and time again. I would have to bite my tongue to just tell her "They are en route" rather than tell her the blatant truth!

Edit: Yes I realize that for a homeowner watching their house burn up, 4-5 minutes seems like eternity. I was speaking towards the larger issue of manpower when I quoted "Why aren't they here?"

Edited October 17, 2008 by 242steve

[jcoppola 52]

It seems to me that the Molen Family, or at the very least, their insurance company, is going to be conacting an attorney (as they should). I know that hindsight is 20/20, but I saw this coming, it was just a matter of time.

[fire55 3]

"Nine Long Ridge firefighters had arrived by 9:12 p.m., Bennett said. He provided the names of the firefighters"

One quick question on this quote???? How many of these "nine" firefighters were interior certified??? I love it when a department say's " we had XX amount of firefighters on the scene" and in reality, X are fire police and X are junior or probationary ff's who are not interior certified. I love it when numbers are pumped up to make it sound like really good responses from the department.

[kpelley 0]

"Nine Long Ridge firefighters had arrived by 9:12 p.m., Bennett said. He provided the names of the firefighters"

One quick question on this quote???? How many of these "nine" firefighters were interior certified??? I love it when a department say's " we had XX amount of firefighters on the scene" and in reality, X are fire police and X are junior or probationary ff's who are not interior certified. I love it when numbers are pumped up to make it sound like really good responses from the department.

Chief Bennett, was he there, I think not. It was a paid driver that called for the help not a volunteer.

[Noula 0]

In today's Advocate:

Both articles by the Advocate concering the Mill Spring fire only go to show that the Advocate fails on many levels when it comes to reporting fairly and accurately about, well, much of anything.

[TSull 33]

I can tell you that it is a FACT that the Glenbrook volunteers have and still train with members of SFRD. Joe I believe you have hit the nail on the head when you said the volunteers are dug in due to PRIDE. In my humble opinion, which may mean nothing, I believe it is time to swallow the pride, and do whats RIGHT. TSULL good to see you bro.

PJ, how are you? I hope you guys don't mind me dropping my 2 cents. Where are you stationed these days?

[pjreilly 6]

Both articles by the Advocate concering the Mill Spring fire only go to show that the Advocate fails on many levels when it comes to reporting fairly and accurately about, well, much of anything.

What color is the sky in your world probie? If you want to share, what was so factually incorrect?

[BMeehan282 8]

Tim, I appreciate your comments and they are good, but don't kid yourself, there is no love affair going on between the Danbury career and volunteer staffs. I think in thier case, the career chief is trying really hard to make them an assett because there are so many of them. In fact, they are being trained by the career staff training division. Would the Stamford volunteers accept training from the SFRD? I think not, in that most of them are now considered rival organizations. I have said it once and I will continue to say it...career and volunteer in Stamford will NEVER peacefully co-exist. In the case of Stamford, there are apparently not that many volunteers anymore, and the response to Long Ridge shows a case in point.

I am sure many of these comments are going to peeve some people, but they are correct and I would not post them if I did not believe them.

I couldnt resist chiming in. Joe, you're somewhat incorrect about Danbury. I'm also betting there's no love affair between paid companies in Norwalk and each other, that's just how the fire service is, but I dont spend enough time in Norwalk to be sure.

In the 23 years I've been in Danbury, things between the career and volunteers have improved dramatically. I would say that the enemy of the volunteers in Danbury (and most other places) are/is their fellow volunteers. If the volunteer companies in Danbury would swallow their "company" pride and consolidate, they would be very effective firefighting force. With twelve independent fire companies, there clearly is too much divisiveness between them for them to be effective. Their members constantly switch between companies and fight among each other. There are approximately 100 "qualified interior" volunteers between the 12 companies, so one can see that spread 12 ways, 100 guys are thinned out. Currently the career and volunteer firefighters in Danbury get along quite well. Both sides of the aisle have their jerks, but for the most part, we get along fine. The career guys work to train the volunteers, and there are now volunteers who are instructors who also help out. Is it perfect? No of course not, but we work fairly decently together.

Could it work in Stamford? absolutely, but it would take alot of work on alot of peoples parts to make concessions from both disciplines. The problem in Stamford is "civil war", as there are far too many "ex" this, or "ex" that, brothers, fathers, and others with personal agendas that are truly the root of the conflict.

I think the way to accomplish peace in Stamford would be to find common ground and work from there towards the solution. To me, that's fairly easy, both sides should agree to a panel of OUTSIDE arbitrators, people that both sides agree are experts in the fire service, and then Stamford should pay those experts a lot of money to formulate a solution and everyone abides by it.

Each side should go on Firehouse.com or something, and pick their expert, add them to a panel and follow the plan.

bernie

[BMeehan282 8]

Don't feel bad, we get major incidents in Norwalk and we don't even get mentioned half the time, and we are the only game in town...

Isn't Rowayton VFD still in business?

[jcoppola 52]

Isn't Rowayton VFD still in business?

I guess...we have almost nothing to do with them at all.

[jcoppola 52]

I couldnt resist chiming in. Joe, you're somewhat incorrect about Danbury. I'm also betting there's no love affair between paid companies in Norwalk and each other, that's just how the fire service is, but I dont spend enough time in Norwalk to be sure.

In the 23 years I've been in Danbury, things between the career and volunteers have improved dramatically. I would say that the enemy of the volunteers in Danbury (and most other places) are/is their fellow volunteers. If the volunteer companies in Danbury would swallow their "company" pride and consolidate, they would be very effective firefighting force. With twelve independent fire companies, there clearly is too much divisiveness between them for them to be effective. Their members constantly switch between companies and fight among each other. There are approximately 100 "qualified interior" volunteers between the 12 companies, so one can see that spread 12 ways, 100 guys are thinned out. Currently the career and volunteer firefighters in Danbury get along quite well. Both sides of the aisle have their jerks, but for the most part, we get along fine. The career guys work to train the volunteers, and there are now volunteers who are instructors who also help out. Is it perfect? No of course not, but we work fairly decently together.

Could it work in Stamford? absolutely, but it would take alot of work on alot of peoples parts to make concessions from both disciplines. The problem in Stamford is "civil war", as there are far too many "ex" this, or "ex" that, brothers, fathers, and others with personal agendas that are truly the root of the conflict.

I think the way to accomplish peace in Stamford would be to find common ground and work from there towards the solution. To me, that's fairly easy, both sides should agree to a panel of OUTSIDE arbitrators, people that both sides agree are experts in the fire service, and then Stamford should pay those experts a lot of money to formulate a solution and everyone abides by it.

Each side should go on Firehouse.com or something, and pick their expert, add them to a panel and follow the plan.

bernie

Ok, I apologize for speaking out of turn, but my source painted a very different picture than yours. My source has since left Danbury and moved on to the FDNY several years ago, so my info is dated and I will take yours at face value.

Knowing as much about the volunteer system as I do, I can tell you that there are many fundamental differences between Danbury and Stamford departments. There is no common ground. The damage and distrust is corroding the system beyond repair. The individual fiefdoms will never give in to consoldation because they put way too much stock in the "Charter".

Another big problem is that Springdale, Belltown and Turn of River FDs are considered "rival" organizations. You tell me how that is going to promote this "common ground" that you speak of. I have resolved myself to the fact that there is no possible way these 2 sides are going to agree on ANYTHING, EVER.

I believe that the whole Mill Spring Road fire proved that the system is more disorganized than it was before the merger. At least before, the departments were able to deal with most situations on their own, with mutual aid as needed from wherever. Now, there are 2 different entities with their own command staff operating in a relatively small area compared to other jurisdictions in our state. To no fault of either, one does not know what the other is doing and there is the never-ending underlying career vs. volunteer conflict.

With all due respect, there is NOTHING easy about this situation.

Joe

[BMeehan282 8]

Ok, I apologize for speaking out of turn, but my source painted a very different picture than yours. My source has since left Danbury and moved on to the FDNY several years ago, so my info is dated and I will take yours at face value.

Knowing as much about the volunteer system as I do, I can tell you that there are many fundamental differences between Danbury and Stamford departments. There is no common ground. The damage and distrust is corroding the system beyond repair. The individual fiefdoms will never give in to consoldation because they put way too much stock in the "Charter".

Another big problem is that Springdale, Belltown and Turn of River FDs are considered "rival" organizations. You tell me how that is going to promote this "common ground" that you speak of. I have resolved myself to the fact that there is no possible way these 2 sides are going to agree on ANYTHING, EVER.

I believe that the whole Mill Spring Road fire proved that the system is more disorganized than it was before the merger. At least before, the departments were able to deal with most situations on their own, with mutual aid as needed from wherever. Now, there are 2 different entities with their own command staff operating in a relatively small area compared to other jurisdictions in our state. To no fault of either, one does not know what the other is doing and there is the never-ending underlying career vs. volunteer conflict.

With all due respect, there is NOTHING easy about this situation.

Joe

Also with all due respect, I disagree. The problem with the situation in Stamford is purely personalities, it has nothing to do with facts. The interesting thing about the fire service, is that it is very similar everywhere you go. I'll bet there is a very similar situation to the Stamford thing going on in Brazil, or Canada somewhere. Here in CT there are other similar situations; West Haven, Enfield, Greenwich, Manchester, Meriden, Wallingford, are all towns that come to mind with significant vol/career or fire district issues. West Haven seems to be working very hard on moving towards finally consolidating.

Anyone who thinks there isn't common ground, needs to take a step back and get a better view of things. The fire service and firefighters are no different in Stamford than anywhere else. Let's try to consider some common ground; People join the fire service (career or volunteer) because they want to help people and serve their community. Many career guys were volunteers, and many volunteers strive to be career guys, those types of people can help act as ambassadors. I never understood why some of the biggest volunteer advocates move on to become the biggest voices in the union once they get hired. We should never forget where we came from, or where we might want to be. More common ground; everyone has to agree that they want to fight fires safely, and that they dont want firefighters injured. Everyone must agree that they want to serve their public the best they can, and have the best equipment available to do such work in their various districts. The differing sides in Stamford probably need to present their views on how things should be accomplished there. Just off the top of my head there are probably some fundamental differences on how to respond to fires there; the career department has engines and truck co's, the volunteer districts know the value of tankers, and have the ability to respond with rescues and specialized units that the career dept may not have the luxury of doing. The career dept has an advantage of immediately available chain of command at all times, the volunteers can probably muster extra guys on fairly short notice, there are advantages to both sides. More common ground, I bet everyone agrees to strive for as much training as they can get, is it easy for all of us (career or vol) to train; no not always. Would it be easier if there was a collaborative effort to train everyone? Absolutely. Would costs go down if all those districts had centralized purchasing? Sure. As I said in my earlier post, could both sides pick a Harry Carter or Billy Goldfeder off Firehouse.com and place them on a committee, sure they could. I'm betting the same fire service magazines are in bathrooms of both the career and the volunteer firehouses in Stamford. In my experience the main ingredient to solve these types of conflicts is leadership. Now I dont know any of these leaders down there, but they've developed, and are fostering quite a mess. Maybe they should take a ride up to Litchfield County and see if Henry Kissinger is available to broker the peace.

[junior215 0]

I wish this was Brazil. Then I would speak Spanish and would not to able to read some of these rediculous responses.

Please tell me why Turn of River CONSISTENTLY does not have ANY respone to MINOR call like the ever increasing EMS response. Having an assistant chief who does NOTHING to assist on the scene is not a response.

I want to have the same response criteria as these HIGHLY TRAINED AND ABLE VOLUNTEERS!! I hate EMS calls at 0200 AM, but, guess what.................these are the calls where you can make a real difference today. Why don't you guys come out and help you community then????????????????????????????????????????

The city is right. The taxpayers need to stop funding the social organizations that respond to an occassional call. STOP TRYING TO MAKE SFRD LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!! WE DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS SITUATION, WE WERE GIVEN IT!!!!!!!!!!!! And if you hate the Mayor, Chief, or Union president, then crap on them. But stop rying to make the average line firefighter, who actually likes going to calls, out to be the bad guy. AND ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE SERVICES YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE.... GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND RESPOND!!!!!!

Edited October 21, 2008 by junior215

[FFPCogs 863]

But stop rying to make the average line firefighter, who actually likes going to calls, out to be the bad guy. AND ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE SERVICES YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE.... GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND RESPOND!!!!!!

I agree wholeheartedly. Direct the anger where it belongs. 888 Washington Blvd.

Cogs

[FD828 77]

Well put junior215! The time has come to end this mess once and for all. No more court battles, no more arbitration, no more pleading to the public about how the city is going to raising taxes and the big bad union is soo mean to the volunteers. Lives are at steak both firefighters and citizens. What if a firefighter or homeowner was injured or killed at the Long Ridge fire(God Forbid). Would people wake up then and make the neccessary changes? The time is now to end this mess not after someone dies because feelings and pride are in the way of progress.

[Geppetto 31]

FYI - They speak Portuguese in Brazil.

[FD828 77]

I agree wholeheartedly. Direct the anger where it belongs. 888 Washington Blvd.

Cogs

888 Wahington Blvd????????? Perhaps some anger should be directed NORTH!!!!!!!! You know the ones who are standing in the way of the career deptartment from responding with more then 3 guys to an emergency? The volunteers could of had a staffed machine in each of their fire houses to respond for THEIR citizens for every emergency (not just the ones they feel like responding too), all of the funding, and still could come for calls and training, oh yeah and their chief could still be in charge at the scene. What was the down side to this again? Oh the chief wouldn't be able to say who could and could not work in his fire house, and the volly officers wouldn't be in charge of the paid guys. Important stuff there. A great reason to put the lives of the Stamford residents in jeapordy!

[x152 179]

FYI - They speak Portuguese in Brazil.

Ahh Geppetto, he never misses a beat........

[jcoppola 52]

Also with all due respect, I disagree. The problem with the situation in Stamford is purely personalities, it has nothing to do with facts. The interesting thing about the fire service, is that it is very similar everywhere you go. I'll bet there is a very similar situation to the Stamford thing going on in Brazil, or Canada somewhere. Here in CT there are other similar situations; West Haven, Enfield, Greenwich, Manchester, Meriden, Wallingford, are all towns that come to mind with significant vol/career or fire district issues. West Haven seems to be working very hard on moving towards finally consolidating.

Anyone who thinks there isn't common ground, needs to take a step back and get a better view of things. The fire service and firefighters are no different in Stamford than anywhere else. Let's try to consider some common ground; People join the fire service (career or volunteer) because they want to help people and serve their community. Many career guys were volunteers, and many volunteers strive to be career guys, those types of people can help act as ambassadors. I never understood why some of the biggest volunteer advocates move on to become the biggest voices in the union once they get hired. We should never forget where we came from, or where we might want to be. More common ground; everyone has to agree that they want to fight fires safely, and that they dont want firefighters injured. Everyone must agree that they want to serve their public the best they can, and have the best equipment available to do such work in their various districts. The differing sides in Stamford probably need to present their views on how things should be accomplished there. Just off the top of my head there are probably some fundamental differences on how to respond to fires there; the career department has engines and truck co's, the volunteer districts know the value of tankers, and have the ability to respond with rescues and specialized units that the career dept may not have the luxury of doing. The career dept has an advantage of immediately available chain of command at all times, the volunteers can probably muster extra guys on fairly short notice, there are advantages to both sides. More common ground, I bet everyone agrees to strive for as much training as they can get, is it easy for all of us (career or vol) to train; no not always. Would it be easier if there was a collaborative effort to train everyone? Absolutely. Would costs go down if all those districts had centralized purchasing? Sure. As I said in my earlier post, could both sides pick a Harry Carter or Billy Goldfeder off Firehouse.com and place them on a committee, sure they could. I'm betting the same fire service magazines are in bathrooms of both the career and the volunteer firehouses in Stamford. In my experience the main ingredient to solve these types of conflicts is leadership. Now I dont know any of these leaders down there, but they've developed, and are fostering quite a mess. Maybe they should take a ride up to Litchfield County and see if Henry Kissinger is available to broker the peace.

Ok, good response Bernie, but we shall agree to disagree. This was a system I have worked in and have been involved with for many, many years and I am confident that no mutually acceptable outcome will ever occur. Call me a pessimist, but thats the way I see it. And I really hope you are not referring to me when you mention guys who forgot where they came from or big union voices.

Thanks,

Joe

[BMeehan282 8]

Ok, good response Bernie, but we shall agree to disagree. This was a system I have worked in and have been involved with for many, many years and I am confident that no mutually acceptable outcome will ever occur. Call me a pessimist, but thats the way I see it. And I really hope you are not referring to me when you mention guys who forgot where they came from or big union voices.

Thanks,

Joe

It's hard to show "tone" on these blogs.. No I was not referring to you with regards to "selective amnesia"... I was actually trying to be somewhat politically correct by my post, what I wanted to say is that some of the same guys who were pains in a** as volunteers, transform into similar pains in the a** in the union after they get hired... Which reinforces my earlier post that both the career and volunteer sides both have personalities among them that hamper everyone getting along.

bernie

[jcoppola 52]

It's hard to show "tone" on these blogs.. No I was not referring to you with regards to "selective amnesia"... I was actually trying to be somewhat politically correct by my post, what I wanted to say is that some of the same guys who were pains in a** as volunteers, transform into similar pains in the a** in the union after they get hired... Which reinforces my earlier post that both the career and volunteer sides both have personalities among them that hamper everyone getting along.

bernie

Very true...and thanks.

Joe

[SFRD E-9 18]

888 Wahington Blvd????????? Perhaps some anger should be directed NORTH!!!!!!!! You know the ones who are standing in the way of the career deptartment from responding with more then 3 guys to an emergency? The volunteers could of had a staffed machine in each of their fire houses to respond for THEIR citizens for every emergency (not just the ones they feel like responding too), all of the funding, and still could come for calls and training, oh yeah and their chief could still be in charge at the scene. What was the down side to this again? Oh the chief wouldn't be able to say who could and could not work in his fire house, and the volly officers wouldn't be in charge of the paid guys. Important stuff there. A great reason to put the lives of the Stamford residents in jeapordy!

Well Put! Things would have been exactly the way they were before the merger with the exception of the patch on the shoulders of the paid guys, and the amount of guys on the rigs (more of them). The problem was there were some of our so called "Union Brothers" feeding the volunteers misinformation about the big bad union and the SFRD. Turn of River was afraid that it would have a "Springdale" on their hands. The only problem is the Springdale problem was started by Springdale's own Chief, not the SFRD guys. Ask any of the Turn of River guys how things have been going working with SFRD on calls. Everyone works together and treat each other with respect. Now if only the Upper management at TOR will listens to the guys that actually go to calls and not the ones who sit in the back bay smoking cigars and stirring the pot and rumor mill, maybe we can put this to bed and move on. They would have all their funding, respond to calls, and the SFRD engines would have a real home.

[FFPCogs 863]

Gentlemen,

Witholding funds is the root cause of the issue. The Mayor and Co. decided to force the VFDs to accept an agreement to which they are opposed, by witholding their operating budgets. That's called extortion no way around it. And like it or not, right or wrong the VFDs have EVERY right by charter and as seperate INCORPORATED entities to disagree without budgetary reprisals. It is 888 Washington Blvd that has reduced the operating budgets of the unwilling VFDs by 90%, funds that cover essential items such as training, equipment repair/replacement, building maintainence ect. So indeed the real root problem comes from 888 Washington Blvd.

You know many career FFs spout off about public safety, staffing, ect...why don't those "concerned" FFs rebel against an unjust statute of their union bylaws and volunteer to HELP those citizens of Stamford who so sorely need them NOW !!! I know all about taking another guys job, overtime blah blah blah, but hey if public safety is paramount and we have all these professionals around then the details don't matter do they? Their paychecks or the VFDs existence..who cares..the public will be safe and then that should solve the problem.

Not quite that simple is it? Nor is simply placing a FF "with a different patch" so simple. As has been evidenced by recent letters linked here and elsewhere, that wonderful SFRD and VFD "working together" scenario is not quite a reality. There appears to be two commands at some incidents, and a complete lack of coherence in actions...not very good examples of "working together". And truth be told these breakdowns are the fault of ALL involved...no monopolies here on arrogance, intolerance, misconception and intransigence.

Squeezing the VFDs to force them "into line" is surely not the right tactic, nor is obliviously living as if things are as they were. Substantial changes are needed.....but in all fairness change is a two way street. While the arguments of the City and SFRD are correct in their view of guaranteed staffing and it's likely improvement in safety , some important factors such as INCREASED cost overall and an unwillingness to accept any opposing opinions or solutions are not. Just as the VFDs have valid arguments about jurisdiction and command within THEIR districts, and the very real possibility of their demise, it seems they too suffer from an inability to see any other solutions.

As has often been stated here THERE ARE SOLUTIONS that can offer a compromise...all that is needed is the willingness to explore them.

Cogs

Edited October 23, 2008 by FFPCogs

[FFPCogs 863]

888 Wahington Blvd????????? Perhaps some anger should be directed NORTH!!!!!!!!

To be fair, FD828 is correct in that SOME anger or blame if you wish, should be directed north. It is the VFDs who, through their continued belief in individuality and pride, have refused to address the issue in a concerted fashion. It is incumbent on the VFDs to resolve thier differences and consolidate operations, administration and finances to better serve the citizens of Stamford north of the city fire district. It is also incumbent upon them to develop the policies and procedures to accomplish this, then in concert with their career colleagues implement a system that effectively provides the necessary resources, manpower and uniform tactics to meet any need.

Personally, I don't believe that the VFDs are responsible for preventing the career department from responding..as it now stands the SFRD responds anyway regardless of if they are "wanted". Nor do I believe that a system similar to Fairfield's where volunteers perform specialized tasks/assignments such as Rescue Co. or brush response will fly in Stamford. I believe that any such system would result in the VFFs being relegated to secondary assignments and will soon lead to a situation similar to Hamden or East Haven where VFFs are ultimately simply support and clean-up crews. As a volunteer who has spent years training and fighting fires I find that prospect abhorrent, and any who believe that that should be my fate as a volunteer to be arrogant, self serving and uninformed as to the reality of what contributions/sacrifices we volunteers make.

Unlike some, I remain an optimist and believe that workable and acceptable alternatives are possible. As a now "official" ( just registered to vote..lol) Stamford resident I will seek at every turn to see them become reality. I truly hope there are others here and within Stamford's fire services who believe the same. I stand ready to serve.

Cogs

Edited October 24, 2008 by FFPCogs

[SFRD E-9 18]

Cogs not for nothing but you haven't been around Stamford in a long time and I am sure you are only hearing ONE side of the story. Yes, the SFRD guys and the volunteers HAVE been working well together. Once and if you get back in town, go out on calls and see for yourself instead of listening to others and by what you may have read in posts. I have talked with some of the volunteers that agree with me and asked them why they don't say something to there respective departments. They are afraid they will be alienated for speaking out against the departments "Ideology". I think the volunteers should have a vote with several suggestions on it as to the current status and what they should do and it should be done by secret ballot. This way no one feels pressured one way or another which I believe has already happened. Most of the guys just want to be able to do what they always have and get on with it.

[FFPCogs 863]

Tom (hope I'm thinking of the right person),

While it is true that I haven't been in Stamford as a resident for the last 8 years, I have been following the "story" for a while and have always kept an ear open for the goings on amonst the FDs of Stamford. Please understand as well that I meant and mean no personal disrespect to you (or anyone) when posting here. As is obvious I lean heavily on the "side" of the VFDs but I am not against Stamford's paid FFs, many of whom I consider friends..the City administration is another story.

I must agree that there may be and most likely are VFFs who are influenced by the "ideology" and others who feel pressured to either keep quiet or follow the party line. But again in all fairness that "ideology" and pressure argument works both ways. There are career FFs who may not share the "party line" who also feel it is not in their best interest to speak their minds. As with almost any situation there's the proverbial your side, my side and the truth that lies somewhere in the middle. Are there volunteers who want to "keep the City FFs out"..yes. Are there career FFs who want the volunteers gone...yes. It is our job as concerned and committed FFs to silence these extremes, and work towards a better combined service, in whatever form it may take, for our community.

For me personally, I'll happily work with anyone until such time as I'm made to feel or treated as inferior because I don't recieve a paycheck. I have a record of working well with others, especially recently with my service overseas. I look forward to the opportunty of working alongside you again as well. The point is that all sides of this issue must understand and respect the other views, and I believe I have done well in supporting and promoting that idea. I know what's at stake here as do most of Stamford's FFs, and I agree with all those who call for serious and determined action to resolve the problems. People don't have to agree, but to me they do need to put aside those "party lines" and open themselves up to alternatives. The fire service here has devolved quite a bit in the last 20 years, and the fault for that lies with ALL of us who allowed it to happen. We, ALL the FFs of Stamford should look towards moving forward as allies and friends to serve the citizens of Stamford and ourselves ...not as adversaries bent on pushing agendas.

On a side note, as our nation's financial concerns grow, it is not impossible the envsion tougher times for the fire services of Stamford, which may result in severe budget shortfalls..i.e. layoffs (God forbid). As I remarked to a career FF friend the other day..we in the fire service are generally reactive..here with all our troubles we have the opportunty to be proactive....to forge a stronger relationship to better serve the community should such a terrible scenario come upon us...let us not squander it.

Cogs

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Cogs,

Why do all of your posts have to be disertations cant you sum up your thoughts in a hundred words of less?

Paul

[dragonrescue 28]

The public is indeed clueless about most issues relating to the fire service. They call we show up. It is our job to educate them to ALL the facts...objectively....to move forward towards a reliable, long term solution that is in THEIR overall best interest.

That the initial manpower available for the Mill Spring fire was abysmal has given the VFDs of Stamford their one and only wake up call. I couldn't agree more that public safety is the absolute priority and as such a good hard reevaluation of the state of affairs is in order. As I've often stated, for continued volunteer coverage to be a viable or even acceptable alternative to career personnel then it is time for them to collectively to step up and devise a sound, practical and safe plan to ensure the necessary coverage...period. This time the VFDs by the grace of God and good fortune came upon a fire in which the occupants were safe....they absolutely CANNOT count on that being the norm.

If staffing or responding personnel numbers are being falsified it has to stop NOW!!!! The first step in solving a problem is admitting there is one. If one house is short the others must try to contribute to keep staffing levels to at least the bare minimum or by somehow redefining mutual aid agreements and responses to provide the necessary resources in personnel and equipment.

This morass just seems to get deeper and deeper, and the warning signs it seems are being ignored. The 5 VFD Chiefs need to sit down, burn the midnight oil and do whatever it takes to make sure this type of "lapse" does not occur again. You can rest assured "Big 5" Chiefs that if it does and God forbid there are civilian deaths/injuries you will all suffer the consequences and

the volunteers of Stamford will be finished

Cogs

The volunteers in Stamford have been finished for quite some time!

Dragon

Edited October 25, 2008 by dragonrescue

[FFPCogs 863]

Cogs,

Why do all of your posts have to be disertations cant you sum up your thoughts in a hundred words of less?

Paul

No