Pagers For Juniors

[Guest VFDJrSqd02]

A few questions about Pagers for Juniors...

Do you think it is nescessary/or good for Juniors to carry pagers?

What Deparments Have Pagers for their Juniors?

Does Every Junior have one?

Do the Juniors buy them themselves or does the department supply them?

[CM36 4]

I think that the juniors should have pager, because they should now when their is a call.

[Guest DFFD227]

I certainly agree...but unfortunately this isn't possible for every dept. In my department only the captain gets a pager. But I was lucky enough to purchase my own MinitorIV. I think all Junior FD's should be supplied with them.

[Guest VFDJrSqd02]

DFFD227 said: but unfortunately this isn't possible for every dept

Yeah i completely agree with you...in our department none of the juniors have a pager...we are semi new, so that could be a reason...also they are expensive...therefore the department cant afford to buy them for everyone...however i do think that the juniors should have them.

[Guest DFFD227]

It's not like the Jr FD's are really anything different from regular fd's. The only thing we can't do is go into a burning building. We however go to calls, drills, fire dept functions. We are also part of the dept and we should get them.

[x635 4,066]

I do not feel all Juniors should be issued pagers.

I feel the junior captain and Lt should receive pagers, and then if the juniors are needed on a call (hoserolling, rehab, salvage,etc) then those officers should in turn alert the other membership via cell/alpha page.

Its also a money issue, where pagers cost $300 or more a piece, not to mention maitenence (batteries,damage) and replacement costs, I feel the money could be better spent in other areas of the programs, such as better gear for the juniors, better training, etc.

Another option is that juniors should look into aqquiring surplus pagers if they feel it would be a benefit for the post. As departments upgrade, many departments simply put the older M2's into a closet forever. If this is the case, the juniors should look into the option of issuing pagers to members based on seniority. And there has to be a way to keep those members accountable for that device if that is to happen.

You also have the issue of some juniors, when getting toned out via pager, rushing wrecklessly to the firehouse, when that is absolutely uncessary and unsafe and presents a tremendous liability,and sometimes even delays regular members, but thats a whole other subject.

IMO, Do juniors NEED pagers? Not really. Is it a great benefit for the juniors to have pagers? Absolutely.

[Guest DFFD227]

Yes, I know what your saying, but IF a department had the money to support pagers, but did not issue then is IMO wrong. Also why not give JR'S old MinitorI's laying around the Fire house? There not the best, but it will do it.

[x635 4,066]

Yes, I know what your saying, but IF a department had the money to support pagers, but did not issue then is IMO wrong. Also why not give JR'S old MinitorI's laying around the Fire house? There not the best, but it will do it.

I agree, if department x has surplus pagers laying around, they should definelty be given to the juniors. But if department x is going to issue pagers to juniors, than they should issue strict guidelines as for how, when,where etc for responses.

IF department x had the money for Jr. pagers (which most departments dont or have other more urgent items to spend money on), then that money should be spent purchasing new turnout gear for the juniors instead of the old deteriorating gear that usually doesnt fit properly that most posts operate with. If thats already done, then the money should be used for First Aid and CPR training for all Jrs. If thats done, then the department should kick in money for scholarships for all juniors that participate.

If all those items are already done,and the department STILL has money, then I would agree with pruchasing pagers, providing guidleines are in place and you have competent officers, and a way to account and pay for the operation of these devices.

BTW, when I was a Junior, I thought all juniors should have pagers, and that was a priority item. Now, being a firefighter and post advisor for a few years, I see differently. Much differently.

[Guest DFFD227]

BTW, when I was a Junior, I thought all juniors should have pagers, and that was a priority item. Now, being a firefighter and post advisor for a few years, I see differently. Much differently.

LOL Because you already got your pager!!

[x635 4,066]

BTW, when I was a Junior, I thought all juniors should have pagers, and that was a priority item. Now, being a firefighter and post advisor for a few years, I see differently. Much differently.

LOL Because you already got your pager!!

Yeah, OK :roll: you will see in time their are more important things to get done than pagers.

[Guest VFDJrSqd02]

x635 wrote:

Yeah, OK  :roll:  you will see in time their are more important things to get done than pagers.

it is true that there could be other things to spend the $$ on...but... i do think that juniors should have them...at a minumum the officers should have them.

[Guest DFFD227]

I agree...this is a very complicated issue. We can go on for ever discussing about this.

[firemn23 8]

I think x635 is absolutely correct juniors should not have pagers. If we can avoid juniors from hurrying to the firehouse to sit and man the watch desk then we should make them aware of that. Having a pager though will not make it any different then it is now. I as an advisor and captain am more concerned with fireman than the juniors. But as DFFD said in another section he had his pager taken away from him, well i wouldnt want my juniors ruining thier education and disturbing classes with pagers. And unfortunantly they can not make immediate life saving actions and should not need a pager to respond. If a situatiion occurs and juniors are needed get a cell phone list and have someone that is at the watch desk call them in.

[Guest VFDJrSqd02]

firemn23 wrote:

But as DFFD said in another section he had his pager taken away from him, well i wouldnt want my juniors ruining thier education and disturbing classes with pagers.

What is they didnt have the pagers in school...or they were turned off. what if the juniors treated there pagers like they do with their cell phones by leaving them in there bag or turned off or even left them at home?

[firemn23 8]

lets get real. They would never turn them off and I think they would also make it an excuse to leave class. I ask every one of my juniors if they are supposed to be in class when we have a day time alarm and they always say no.

[HFD23 37]

i agree that juniors shouldn;t be issued pagers, there is no reason,it just adds more cars driving crazly to fire house;s and scenes they are not esential fire greound personel, and if it is a major alarm where they are needed they can be called by phone. Why do u need juniors responding to the fire house when most alarms are false alarms. also every one else is rite, no one in the fire service would turn off their pager in class.. what if you miss the big one?

i am sorry i know i would be great to listen and know whats going on in your district, i just think its dangerious for every one else.

[Guest DFFD227]

Now I'm just curious...What Deparmtent actually gives there juniors pagers? (and I mean every junior)?

[Guest VFDJrSqd02]

firemn23 wrote:

I ask every one of my juniors if they are supposed to be in class when we have a day time alarm and they always say no.

That is probably because there parents said they could leave school...

[Remember585 815]

Croton's Juniors used to be issued pagers... but it became a matter of money and MATURITY. We used to be allowed to leave school for calls if we were passing everything and we were "Neccessary." Prior to becoming DOH certified, our EMS ran with CFRs only. Since CFRs could become certified at age 16, me and 2 other Juniors were handling almost every daytime EMS call throughout High School. Once we took Essentials, we were allowed to handle fire calls too. It worked out fine. We lost this priviledge because a couple of jackasses in our Post were cutting school for other reasons, and lied about being on calls. Fortunate for me, I hit my 18th birthday and was a member of the Dept. My parents were OK with me going, so long as I passed everything. Giving the Juniors pagers is ok, but rules need to be issued and adhered to. MATURITY is everything!!!

[CG206 29]

Technically Mohegan does not have junior firefighters and ambulance corps members.....the exact title is "Firefighter under 18". As far as pagers go, once the 12-14 week in-house training program is completed, all those probies will get pagers, with the above 18 yrs old probies getting first dibs. If enough pagers are available, the under 18 members will get a pager. As far as the EMS side, there are no pagers, but portable radios instead. Mohegan FD VAC has seperate UHF freq. which members use to call in. After the new EMS member, even those under 18 show activity by responding to calls and rostering at the firehouse, they will be given a portable radio. I feel that every member deserves a pager/radio because they are useless if they do not have one. I mean how are they supposed to know when a call occurs?

[57truck 1]

In Bedford Hills, their's two types of Junior Member classification. Members who are 16 are issued a pager if their avaiable, and 15 yr old dont recieve any since they cant respond to calls. Once the juniors do recieve a pager, they are told about the rules of them, and should be adhered too, or the pager will be taken away. Rules such as not wearing them to school, and not responding to calls during school hours were stressed greatly. However, I agree that pagers should be given to Junior Members, because if they are allowed to respond to calls, their gaining training at calls, by watching the interior and senior members, go through different steps and functions at every call. If theirs pagers avaiable at that certian dept, I believe that they should be given to a junior member that deserves it

[chris498 31]

I think this is a difficult decission to make, because there are pros and cons to both arguements. I think that maturaty is part ofthe issue. Additionally, I do not think that junior members should be allowed to leave school to go to fires under any condition... regardless of how large the fire is... there will be plenty of other, besides, I think this rule places an emphasis on priorities which everyone needs to consider.... school is very important, there will be plenty of other calls. I agree too with the feeling that the money that could be used to buy pagers for juniors could be used for training, and gear, and more training.

But on the other hand, we think to some level junior corps members are mature enough, if we didn't then we probably would not have even be considered as part of the department in the first place, but still additional hands are usually welcome at most emergency scenes these days.... especially during the day time. Additionally, how can we truly expect to get younger people involved and interested in volunteering if we do not let them do anything? If there are enough pagers to go around why should EVERY member not have one?

In the end though, my gut feeling is that pagers are not necessary for junior corps members. I think that juniors need time to mature and learn, (as all new members need to) but what really concerns me is someone leaving school in a hurry and getting hurt, or not paying attention in school because the pager says structure fire or confirmed entrapment, and now nobody cares what the teacher is saying.... I guess what I am try to say in a really long winded way is that, I could do without pagers for juniors..... sorry gang, your are important,and your time will come. Nuff said.

[Guest DFFD227]

I think this question was posted wrong (No Offense ffdexpler). I don't think that juniors need pagers, but should get pagers

[Guest VFDJrSqd02]

DFFD227 wrote:

I think this question was posted wrong (No Offense ffdexpler). I don't think that juniors need pagers, but should get pagers

no offense taken....i think you are right...that the question should say "should juniors get pagers?"

also...as alot of you said it is about maturity....i agree with you 100%...and i aslo agree with you 100% that juniors should NOT be allowed to leave school under any circumstamces NO MATTER WHAT!!! maturity is a big part of it...so those of the juniors that are mature should be issued pagers.

[RadnorCo15 0]

If we can avoid juniors from hurrying to the firehouse to sit and man the watch desk then we should make them aware of that.

Having served as a Jr. under firemn23 he makes a very valid point. Jr. response is just not necessary on every call, though its better to be in the loop or the Juniors will lose interest fast (especially in low call volume depts). IMO a very low percentage of Juniors actually complete the program and become regular members.

For the departments that allow response on apparatus & allow juniors to perform firefighting duties on the fireground by all means they should have pagers. The Jr. program here allows juniors to ride all but the first due apparatus to calls, and can fight any exterior fire (including cars with SCBA).

[AFD-PM 0]

how can u judge someones maturity level? they shouldn't be given out to everyone, but to somekids to see if they will respond to fire calls and become a member. also, about leaving school, the teachers do not let kids just leave school if they say they have a fire call. they ask u were ur pager is n if u don't have one u can't leave.

[Guest DFFD227]

Are you kidding me?? Ardsley School Teachers ask to see the pager for proof??AND THEN LET YOU GO?? In Dobbs you can have DOBBS FERRY JUNIOR written accross your chest...hell you can show up to school in your bunker gear and the teachers STILL wont let you go to a call...real or not.

[Mofire24 27]

SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE WHEN I WAS A JUNIOR MEMBER IN MY DEPARTMENT WHICH IS MOHEGAN I WAITED A YEAR UNTIL I GOT A PAGER BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTANDINGLY GAVE IT TO SOMEONE THAT CAN RESPOND MORE THAN A JUNIOR CAN.

WE HAVE A GREAT SET OF RULES SET IN PLACE THEY CANT GO TO A CALL DURING SCHOOL HOURS THEY CANT LEAVE SCHOOL TO GO TO A CALL THEY ARE NOT INTERIOR FIREFIGHTERS SO WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE PAGERS ALSO WE ARE HURTING FOR PAGERS I CAN SEE MAYBE IF WE HAD A TON OF PAGERS BUT WE DONT. I CAN HONESTLY SAY MOST OF THE JUNIOR MEMBERS MOHEGAN HAS HAD OR CURRENT HAS ARE RELATIVES OF OTHER MEMBERS SO THEY CAN HEAR CALLS GO OVER. THE JUNIOR MEMBERS OF OUR DEPARTMENT ARE IN THE LEARINING STAGE THEY CAN ASSIST WITH DIFFERENT EXTERIOR TASK'S AT CALLS BUT FOR THE MOST PART ARE OBSERVERS.

[JohnnyOV 2]

lets get real.  They would never turn them off and I think they would also make it an excuse to leave class.  I ask every one of my juniors if they are supposed to be in class when we have a day time alarm and they always say no.

sry firemn23, i know a few junior firefigters from mohegan and somers, and durring school hours there pagers are turned off, so i think that it is a little unfair to say that all junior corps members leave school to run off to fire calls.

[Guest VFDJrSqd02]

i would have to agree with EMSJunkie712. Some Junior members are responsable and can handle themselves and their actions.