"Private" Property and Emergency Vehicles

[helicopper 1,050]

There was an interesting (and lively discussion) in another thread about the use of red lights and sirens on privately owned vehicles operated as first-response BLS fly-cars/security vehicles. Now, on a more generic basis, I'd like to continue that discussion and see if we can't continue the interesting discussion without casting aspersions on any specific agency or agencies.

My guess would be that you can probably do pretty much whatever you want on private roads. If this vehicle leaves the community, I would think it would be required to cover the red lights.

Not entirely true. The vehicle and traffic law applies to privately owned but publicly accessible roads such as a small community or condo complex. Even if the road is privately maintained, the law applies.

From the NYS VTL:

§ 133. Private road. Every way or place in private ownership and used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner, but not by other persons.

(emphasis added)

§ 134. Public highway. Any highway, road, street, avenue, alley, public place, public driveway or any other public way.

Even signage stating private property does not prevent me or anyone else from driving through the complex/development/etc. so it is, for the purpose of the VTL, a public highway. If I get hurt in a car accident on a private road such as this, an accident report still needs to be completed by the PD. The same is true of shopping center parking lots.

So to those who may believe that you can do whatever you want on seemingly "private roads", think again. They may be public in the eyes of the law!!!

The security team does act as the police sometimes.

To this I'll just say, DANGEROUS!!! Security or other peace offiers are NOT police officers and shouldn't put themselves into harms way like that!!! Nuf said!

ABC has been AUTHORIZED by the Town of XYZ to use the RED LIGHTS due to the nature of what they do, responding to medical emergencies.

The VTL does define authorized emergency vehicles and I don't find privately owned security vehicles in that definition. I am also unfamiliar with the provisions of town law that allow such an authorization. It would seem to me that a town would be taking great liabilty in making such a distinction. I've looked in town law and see nothing that would permit this. Can you post the statute that they're using to authorize this? I'm sure many people would be interested in that.

§ 101. Authorized emergency vehicle. Every ambulance, police vehicle or bicycle, correction vehicle, fire vehicle, civil defense emergency vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, blood delivery vehicle, county emergency medical services vehicle, environmental emergency response vehicle, sanitation patrol vehicle, hazardous materials emergency vehicle and ordnance disposal vehicle of the armed forces of the United States.

Author's Note: This is in no way a criticism of any specific agency or jurisdiction. It is also not an endorsement of the use of red lights on non-emergency vehicles regardless of the intent.

[OoO 24]

NYS law defines an emergency vehicle as:

Every ambulance, police vehicle or bicycle, correction vehicle, fire vehicle, civil defense emergency vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, blood delivery vehicle, county emergency medical services vehicle, environmental emergency response vehicle, sanitation patrol vehicle, hazardous materials emergency vehicle and ordnance disposal vehicle of the armed forces of the United States.

Perhaps it qualifies under emergency ambulance service vehicle provided the lights are only used when responding to an EMS run?

Edited November 13, 2008 by OoO

[nycemt728 49]

NYS law defines an emergency vehicle as:

Perhaps it qualifies under emergency ambulance service vehicle provided the lights are only used when responding to an EMS run?

That was to be my guess as well, but would that not require the users to be attatched to a specific ambulance service?

[Guest]

Wasn't this agency dispatched by the fire dept in that town? Perhaps that is the ambulance service it is attached to. Plus, to perform care, wouldn't the EMT's have to be attached to a BLS agency anyways?

[helicopper 1,050]

That was going to be my bet too until I re-read the law (below):

§ 109-b. County emergency medical services vehicle. Every vehicle operated by a county emergency medical services coordinator or deputy

county emergency medical services coordinator appointed pursuant to the provisions of section two hundred twenty-three-b of the county law, when

operated in an official capacity while engaged in an emergency operation.

§ 115-c. Emergency ambulance service vehicle. An emergency ambulance service vehicle shall be defined as an appropriately equipped motor

vehicle owned or operated by an ambulance service as defined in section three thousand one of the public health law and used for the purpose of

transporting emergency medical personnel and equipment to sick or injured persons.

(emphasis added)

[50-65 205]

But doesn't an "ambulance service vehicle" as stated here being an emergency vehicle, still have to comply with DOH Part 800?

800.26 EMERGENCY AMBULANCE SERVICE VEHICLE EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS

The governing authority of any ambulance service which, as a part of its

response system, utilizes emergency ambulance service vehicles other than

an ambulance to bring personnel and equipment to the scene, must have

policies in effect for equipment, staffing, individual authorization,

dispatch and response criteria, and maintain appropriate insurance

coverage.(a) A waiver of the equipment requirements for emergency ambulance

service vehicles may be granted by the Department when the service

provides an acceptable plan to the Department demonstrating how appropriate

staff, equipment and vehicles will respond to a call for emergency medical

assistance. The affected Regional EMS Councils will be solicited for

comment on the service's waiver request.( Any emergency ambulance service vehicle other than an ambulance shall be equipped and supplied with emergency care equipment consisting of:

**Mod Note: Edited to remove expansive list. For more info, look up DoH Part 800**

ETA: I guess unless they obtain the waiver highlighted above.

Edited November 14, 2008 by xfirefighter484x

[64FFMJK 21]

But doesn't an "ambulance service vehicle" as stated here being an emergency vehicle, still have to comply with DOH Part 800?

[

yes and no.

I set up a BLS first responce vehicle" for Staatsburg Fire Distrct and the state DOH does not inspect or certify BLS "first responce vehicles".

I talked to the rep from the DOH when they did an inspection at the fire house and I was told that they may in the future as they are seeing a great number of fire depts and rescue squads removing ambulances from service and replacing them with non transport first responce vehicls since they can respond with only one member.

As for the list of equipment, I was able to put every thing on the part 800 list as well as extra equipment not on the list such as a full back board and stair chair in the bask of a ford explorer.

Now as stated before I do not think that any security vehicle should be outfitted with red lights under any circumstances. I still am not sure about private fire depts such as IBM, Dino Nobel to name a couple. Why do they need lights or sirens since they do not respond mutual aid off the property they are stationed at. It has been a long time but I remember watchig IBM turn lights and sirens on to cross the median to get into Dunkin Dounuts.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I still am not sure about private fire depts such as IBM, Dino Nobel to name a couple. Why do they need lights or sirens since they do not respond mutual aid off the property they are stationed at.

While they may no longer have the capabilities that they once had, At one time IBM (Pou, & Fishkill) were the only mutual aid resource for confined space rescue. They also provided a substantial hazmat response and they had foam pumpers. In other parts of the state, private FD's provide many special services to local FD's.

The law allows them to have red lights.

[NWFDMedic 58]

While they may no longer have the capabilities that they once had, At one time IBM (Pou, & Fishkill) were the only mutual aid resource for confined space rescue. They also provided a substantial hazmat response and they had foam pumpers. In other parts of the state, private FD's provide many special services to local FD's.

The law allows them to have red lights.

I'm sure the EF members here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I am quite certain that IBM EF Emergency Control is part of the county fire mutual aid plan and can be utilized if needed. I would imagine they would limit it to areas in which they would have specific expertise or there was an immediate life hazard near but outside the complex. The problem with calling IBM off-site is that they do have specific expertise of their site and leaving the facility without adequate coverage puts many at risk. It's not as easy as just backfilling with another engine.

[AFS1970 504]

I know that we are dealing with a whole other set of laws in CT than in NY, but our hospital security used to have red & blue light bars on their trucks, that they turned on only when they were on the property. This was when they were an in house security department and all officers were employees of the hospital. I have been told that this goes back several years when the director of security was a special police officer and so were several if not all of the officers. In the past few years the hospital has switched to a contract security force, that now drives trucks with amber lights on them.

[Guest]

Not just IBM the airport is another agency that can respond mutual aid as well as Castle Point.