Long Ridge (Fairfield) - Working Fire - 01/27/09

[eckyphats 0]

Date: 1/27/2009

Time: 23:21

Location: 1181 Rock Rimmon Rd

Frequency: 154.130

Units Operating: Long Ridge: E74, E71, E73, K78 (Tanker), 715 (LT), 713, (Capt), 711 (Chief), 710 (FM); Stamford: E8, E9, T2, U4 (DC), E5 (RIT); Turn of River E62, K68 (Tanker), T67, U60 (Utility), 612 (Asst. Chief), 611 (Chief); SEMS: M4, M901 (Supervisor), M3; Springdale: E53 (relocated to Long Ridge Station 1 for Water Supply Ops); Pound Ridge, NY: T3 (Tanker)

Description Of Incident: Initial reports of an explosion and fire in a residential garage. E71 on scene reported working fire, car fire inside attached garage. 711 reports access problems with narrow driveway, supply line being stretched by hand, requesting additional manpower. Turn of River sending additional crews. 711 Transfering Command to 611. Four lines in opperation. Additional reports of loss of floor integrity, and fire in different areas of structure. Pound Ridge Tanker Special Called.

Writer: BFD 182

EDIT: Additional Units added & Command Transfer Noted.

EDIT: Incident details, and additional tankers.

anyone have more information on this incident. i threw it on to listen at around 2am and heard them saying fires through the roof of the house

[BKeane 0]

s/c Noroton Heights (Darien) Tanker 22 at roughly 0215

[x242Steve 1]

Tankers operating:

Long Ridge 73 (Pumper/Tanker)

Long Ridge 78

Turn of River 68

Pound Ridge 3 (Westchester County, NY)

Banksville 7 (Westchester County, NY)

New Canaan 8

Greenwich (Round Hill) 6

Noroton Heights 22

Belltown Engine 41 covering Long Ridge Station 1, and responded to MVA (Car over guard-rail) on Long Ridge Road around 0645.

Edited January 28, 2009 by 242steve

[x152 179]

Tankers operating:

Long Ridge 73 (Pumper/Tanker)

Long Ridge 78

Turn of River 68

Pound Ridge 3 (Westchester County, NY)

Banksville 7 (Westchester County, NY)

New Canaan 8

Greenwich (Round Hill) 6

Noroton Heights 22

Belltown Engine 41 covering Long Ridge Station 1, and responded to MVA (Car over guard-rail) on Long Ridge Road around 0645.

Looks like the "Water Supply Matrix" in effect?

[jcoppola 52]

I have seen commercial working fires with less apparatus than that on scene. Where did they all park and what in God's name was burning? Was it a house? And this question also comes to mind...were there more Chiefs on scene than firefighters? I realize tankers are needed in those areas, and not counting them, it still seems like a huge number of resources.

[Goose 188]

I have seen commercial working fires with less apparatus than that on scene. Where did they all park and what in God's name was burning? Was it a house? And this question also comes to mind...were there more Chiefs on scene than firefighters? I realize tankers are needed in those areas, and not counting them, it still seems like a huge number of resources.

They probably didn't want to get caught with their pants down again after they dropped the ball on that 10/4/2008 fire.

[x242Steve 1]

...Was it a house?...

From some photos I saw, it was a large private dwelling, I would estimate 150x75 (changed from original gargantuan estimate of 100x200) but the pics might be deceiving, appeared to be a Tudor style, stucco/wood frame. Long/narrow shared driveway put the fire building about 1000 feet from the main road (not that there are any wet hydrants nearby)

Stay tuned to www.stamfordfirepix.com for photos from EMTBravo member psd8109 who was O/S.

Edited January 28, 2009 by 242steve

[x129K 1,393]

A 100 x 200 private dwelling!?!?!?

Damn....bet their bathroom is bigger than my house!

[x242Steve 1]

A 100 x 200 private dwelling!?!?!?

Damn....bet their bathroom is bigger than my house!

The house looks kinda T-shaped... and now that I look at it more and am more awake I am changing my estimate to 150x75 , but yes there are some huge houses "north of the parkway".

Edited January 28, 2009 by 242steve

[x152 179]

They probably didn't want to get caught with their pants down again after they dropped the ball on that 10/4/2008 fire.

While I'll refrain from commenting on the previous large fire, there have been several recent responses changes, including:

- 2 City Engines, 1 City Truck, and 1 City Deputy Chief to respond on all structural responses in the District.

- A new Water Supply algorithm/matrix, which essentially is a multi-phase task force concept that fans-out tankers from SW CT and parts of Westchester County. This appears to be the first such use of this plan.

- Implementation of personnel accountability for each responding apparatus and implementation of ICS protocol.

This was a very large residence that was well off-the-road. This is not an uncommon type of home for this area and this was the type of scenario that much of the large fan-out of water resources was planned for.

I cannot speak for operations at the scene, just wanted to provide insight as to why the number of resources.

Edited January 28, 2009 by x152

[jcoppola 52]

While I'll refrain from commenting on the previous large fire, there have been several recent responses changes, including:

- 2 City Engines, 1 City Truck, and 1 City Deputy Chief to respond on all structural responses in the District.

- A new Water Supply algorithm/matrix, which essentially is a multi-phase task force concept that fans-out tankers from SW CT and parts of Westchester County. This appears to be the first such use of this plan.

- Implementation of personnel accountability for each responding apparatus and implementation of ICS protocol.

This was a very large residence that was well off-the-road. This is not an uncommon type of home for this area and this was the type of scenario that much of the large fan-out of water resources was planned for.

I cannot speak for operations at the scene, just wanted to provide insight as to why the number of resources.

All well and good, but it reallly seems to be a poor use of resources. All said with not having been there of course.

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

To anyone on-scene. Car fire inside attached garage, where was the first handline stretched and operated?

[Geppetto 31]

North Stamford home destroyed by fire

By Martin B. Cassidy

Stamford Advocate

01/28/2009

More than 50 firefighters battled a blaze late Tuesday night that gutted a large home on Rock Rimmon Road in North Stamford , Stamford Deputy Fire Chief Timothy Conroy said.

The cause of the fire is under investigation, Conroy said. ...

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_11571585

[huzzie59 75]

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&...1&encType=1

Not sure which house. Maybe someone can point it out.

[ncfire100 0]

New Canaan also sent Engine 1 along with Tanker 8. Seems to me from listening to radio traffic that they were beginning to lose their draft so they called for alot of tankers.

[Guest]

The house was not an average type home according to a friend who knows the homeowners this home was somewhat used for wildlife animals, attached to the home was a indoor basketball court that housed a Giraffe, although at the time of the fire there were no animals. The property has alot of acres and the homeowners also havesome type of wildlife or zoo type property in greenwich.

[x152 179]

The house was not an average type home according to a friend who knows the homeowners this home was somewhat used for wildlife animals, attached to the home was a indoor basketball court that housed a Giraffe, although at the time of the fire there were no animals. The property has alot of acres and the homeowners also havesome type of wildlife or zoo type property in greenwich.

Fab:

I could only imagine you guys calling Dispatch with a request "for animal control to assist in securing a giraffe......"

I do not know if we have an SOG for that?

Just goes to show you that you never know what you are going to walk into.

MTP

Edited January 28, 2009 by x152

[Guest]

Fab:

I could only imagine you guys calling Dispatch with a request "for animal control to assist in securing a giraffe......"

I do not know if we have an SOG for that?

Just goes to show you that you never know what you are going to walk into.

MTP

MTP, you are definitely rite when the friend was telling us about the house we kind of had a dumb founded look on our faces, 1 quote was, well imagine ventilating a window and having a giraffe's head poking thru lol..

[CTFF 65]

All well and good, but it reallly seems to be a poor use of resources. All said with not having been there of course.

A poor use of resources? I don't see it, care to explain?

[Guest]

I have seen commercial working fires with less apparatus than that on scene. Where did they all park and what in God's name was burning? Was it a house? And this question also comes to mind...were there more Chiefs on scene than firefighters? I realize tankers are needed in those areas, and not counting them, it still seems like a huge number of resources.

I was listening to this fire around 2345 until around 0030, and I can say that in several cases, where the apparatus were parked was exactly in the way of where others needed to go... and that was when only the first couple tankers were on scene. For at least the first hour, it was reported over the radio to be contained to the garage. And it was reported that at least during this interval, all the tankers were backing all the way up the driveway to either a pond or to the engines. There was a problem with lack of bottles too, they started to set up a shuttle back to the firehouse to fill bottles with the cascade there, and there was a 45 minute ETA for an on-scene cascade system. When I first started listening, there were Two l/s/o, and another stretched in partial operation, and by the time I stopped listening, there were 4 l/s/o, with two in full operation, two in partial.

[jcoppola 52]

A poor use of resources? I don't see it, care to explain?

I guess I am just from a department that does more with less. I cannot explain it any further. Listing apparatus resources means nothing to me because apparatus does not put out fires, firefighters do.

[Jason762 2]

To anyone on-scene. Car fire inside attached garage, where was the first handline stretched and operated?

Very good question...I wasn't there so I can't comment, maybe those that were can...looking forward to an answer...

For anyone interested here is a good 4 minute video from Fire Engineering on fighting attached garage fires:

Attached Garage Fires

[Noula 0]

If you're looking for more information on the house, check out zillow: http://www.zillow.com/homes/map/1181-Rockr...tamford,-ct_rb/

Approx $2.5mil house, 5 bedrooms, 7.5 baths, 9717 sq ft

[pjreilly 6]

Very good question...I wasn't there so I can't comment, maybe those that were can...looking forward to an answer...

For anyone interested here is a good 4 minute video from Fire Engineering on fighting attached garage fires:

Attached Garage Fires

Great video J. Haven't heard anything on the tactics yet.

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Jason,

Thats the video I was thinking about when I asked my question. Anyone who knows me on here has heard me argue about the tactics involved with an attached garage. I am a big proponet of bringing the 1st line through the front door into the dwelling as Ray Mack demonstrates on training minutes. In my mind that is the right move and tactically sound in these situations. I wasnt there last night and dont know how the tactics played out thats why I asked. Hopefully we will get an answer from someone on scene so we can intelligently discuss the fire and all learn from it.

Paul

[Jason762 2]

Great video J. Haven't heard anything on the tactics yet.

PJ...check out all the videos Fire Engineering offers, definitely good material to base company drills from. As far as tactics, I spoke to several members who were there but I think a first hand account of what happen should be posted, not what I heard from someone else.

[FFPCogs 863]

I wasn't on Rock Rimmon so I can only speculate. Based on what little info I have, I believe that there was long stretch to reach the garage from the the interior here. It may have been decided to put water on the visible fire while waiting for the interior line to get in place. I cannot comment on the validity of tactics used since I wasn't there. I also try to refrain from Monday morning quarterbacking, although discussion for the puposes of learning are always in everyone's best interest.

Obviously there are a number of factors to consider, and I have to agree that in most cases the first line should go in the front door, or the door closest to an involved attached garage to cut off the fire spread. Without fail a line must ALWAYS be placed between any potential victims and the fire ASAP.

That being said IF when we arrive to find a well involved attached garage we have the ability to get two lines stretched simultaneously, I may have the first line put into operation to knock down the heavy fire through the garage, while at the same time the second line is being stretched through the interior to get in position to stop any extension and protect the search crews. Once the first line has knocked down the heavy fire it shuts down and the effort shifts to the interior. That 1st line would then be used only for overhaul. As with any incident the decision would be based on the rule of thumb combined with conditions and resources upon arrival.

Cogs

Edited January 29, 2009 by FFPCogs

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

There is no doubt that conditions on the fire ground hampered efforts at this fire, let me clue you in on something they do at every fire. The difference is how you overcome these obstacles and carry out your objectives. Im not knocking any individual dept but does anyone believe this is the first house in the area with a long uphill driveway. Is this something we should be caught off gaurd by and allow to hamper our operation. At several recent fires I have heard about long driveways and water supply problems, are these issues something new to the companies involved or have they always existed. It comes down to preparing for the big one before it happens by training and developing tactics to handle the situations we can expect to encounter based on our response areas. Lets stop making excuses as to why fires have gone bad, man up and make some positive change so we perform better in the future.

[lad45der 78]

PJ: Define Tactics for people in this area that may not understand the word.

[FFPCogs 863]

Tactics can be defined as the actions taken based on the Incident Commander's overall plan to mitigate an incident.

Cogs