Bailout Systems: What Are You Using?

[FiftyOnePride 100]

A question for those that are using the RIT rescue systems class II harness, how well does that work with center opening turnouts pants? Does the D ring and the additional webbing with it give you slack to get into the harness and pants? I am just curious. Using the Gemtor harness now...

[firefighter-70 27]

Bob,

We use the Petzl EXO. We tested the CMC Escape Artist 540 Belay, it jammed up several times doing about 200 slides. It also does not play out very smooth when hooking up to an anchor that's distant from the window. Hands down the EA did not work as well as the EXO. I see that Chief Flynn said they have a new CMC EA, if it has a post running through the center of the 540 belay cylinder then, I suspect that's causing the problem, if not I would like to see how it works. Stop over and see us next door, we can show you what we tested and how they worked out.

Ok group, what bailout system if any, is your dept using. Likes / dislikes so far, would you change if YOU had the say. Thanks for any input.

[Res1cueLT 20]

Bob,

We use the Petzl EXO. We tested the CMC Escape Artist 540 Belay, it jammed up several times doing about 200 slides. It also does not play out very smooth when hooking up to an anchor that's distant from the window. Hands down the EA did not work as well as the EXO. I see that Chief Flynn said they have a new CMC EA, if it has a post running through the center of the 540 belay cylinder then, I suspect that's causing the problem, if not I would like to see how it works. Stop over and see us next door, we can show you what we tested and how they worked out.

What rope were you using when it jammed??

[JFLYNN 681]

Bob,

We use the Petzl EXO. We tested the CMC Escape Artist 540 Belay, it jammed up several times doing about 200 slides. It also does not play out very smooth when hooking up to an anchor that's distant from the window. Hands down the EA did not work as well as the EXO. I see that Chief Flynn said they have a new CMC EA, if it has a post running through the center of the 540 belay cylinder then, I suspect that's causing the problem, if not I would like to see how it works. Stop over and see us next door, we can show you what we tested and how they worked out.

I think you're confusing me with someone else. I wouldn't want to take any credit for all the great work that our bailout rope committee members are doing. I am not involved and I have total confidence their efforts. These days I am mostly a paper pusher although I am a very interested observer of this issue.

I do think one common problem that most departments, including ours, are going to have after spending all this time and money on selecting bailout rope systems is providing mandatory, ongoing, realistic training, as well as mandating that the systems be worn at all times and inspected regularly. The only way to do this for our own members benefit is to not only provide the opportunities for regular training, but to mandate that all members participate, and hold people accountable for not completing training as well as not regularly inspecting and wearing the systems.

Accountability means someone has to be the "bad guy" and unfortunately too many fire service "leaders" are more concerned with being liked than with taking the necessary steps to increase firefighter health and safety...this would apply to many areas such as seatbelts, physical conditioning, regular, realistic training aimed at everyone not just at the junior guys who are still gung-ho, etc., but this is all a topic for another thread I guess....

[Res1cueLT 20]

I think you're confusing me with someone else. I wouldn't want to take any credit for all the great work that our bailout rope committee members are doing. I am not involved and I have total confidence their efforts. These days I am mostly a paper pusher although I am a very interested observer of this issue.

I do think one common problem that most departments, including ours, are going to have after spending all this time and money on selecting bailout rope systems is providing mandatory, ongoing, realistic training, as well as mandating that the systems be worn at all times and inspected regularly. The only way to do this for our own members benefit is to not only provide the opportunities for regular training, but to mandate that all members participate, and hold people accountable for not completing training as well as not regularly inspecting and wearing the systems.

Accountability means someone has to be the "bad guy" and unfortunately too many fire service "leaders" are more concerned with being liked than with taking the necessary steps to increase firefighter health and safety...this would apply to many areas such as seatbelts, physical conditioning, regular, realistic training aimed at everyone not just at the junior guys who are still gung-ho, etc., but this is all a topic for another thread I guess....

Was that a can of worms that was just opened????

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Just a word to the Departments out there who may not be very far along in this process, you at least need a risk assessment of your district, and a review of current s.o.p's s.o.g's in regards to how you will provide an effective rescue for firefighters from elevations. And at the least you should have a system in mind you will purchase. I don't know if having the first 2 will keep you from getting a fine, but if they see you are moving along in the process it may help. PESH will be checking on Departments and fines will be given out. Department of Labor Rule 800.7 is now in effect.

From what I understand this effects your mutual aid companies coming in as well, meaning if you have a Department that always comes in on a working fire or a FAST unit, they have to have a system in place. In short everyone on your fireground will need some sort of bail out system.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Was that a can of worms that was just opened????

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Was just about to open a can of Campbells chunky new england clam chowder for lunch......nevermind....

[firefighter-70 27]

Res1cue LT

We tested it with 7.5 mm and 8 mm Aramid/Nylon Sterling Rope W/Crosby hook attached. The CMC EA just did not work well at all. How is Capt Dunn?

What rope were you using when it jammed??

[R1SmokeEater 359]

Res1cue LT

We tested it with 7.5 mm and 8 mm Aramid/Nylon Sterling Rope W/Crosby hook attached. The CMC EA just did not work well at all. How is Capt Dunn?

The Capt. one is our secret ! There's another one too I think........

[Res1cueLT 20]

Res1cue LT

We tested it with 7.5 mm and 8 mm Aramid/Nylon Sterling Rope W/Crosby hook attached. The CMC EA just did not work well at all. How is Capt Dunn?

Did you guys buy the XO's??

Have the new EA will be testing them sometime this week, actually have 2 different new types. We have not had any problems with the older version jamming as of yet but because of the people reporting this we are looking at the newer versions. The EA was very close in the remote anchor testing when done in the standing and or crouching position. The XO beat it hands down in the crawling portion of the remote anchor testing. Everyone on the commitee, and random members asked,liked the "feel" of the EA during the actual decending process. That being said we looked at it like this: If I deploy my system I know I am going to descend, not so sure if I will be remote anchoring. The fact is if you can remote anchor you should, the hook is a last resort. Now we previously stated that the XO was better in the remote anchor testing when done from the crawling postion, lets return to that. If I am driven into or trapped in a room that I have to crawl, due to heat and or smoke conditions, I have to ask myself HONESTLY, will I try to remote, look for a window, or find a window and go back and remote or am I going to just find a window and go with the hook. I am almost certain it will be the last option for most of us. That means the crawling test doesn't mean all that much. The only time I actually see remote anchoring as a viable option is if I do not have to crawl. When I can call for another means of exiting the area (ie: Ladder, bucket, etc.) while I am waiting I would remote incase it didn't get there in time. Thses are just some of our thoughts and I am sure some would disagree, thats why I previously stated you should prioritize your criteria, because no one system is right for everyone. We haven't even touch the surface of other issues, getting hung up on a window sill, operating your system with burnt or injured hands etc.

Well I hope that this gave you some insight into what goes into the process. This week should be interesting.

Stay Safe

Oh and who is Capt Dunn??

Just kidding he is fine.