Federal Appeals Court says Utah Highway Patrol must remove memorial crosses

[Just a guy 493]

In an incredible knock to the memories of the Brave Men and Women that have died in the line of duty serving the Utah Highway Patrol, the U.S. 10th circuit court of appeals has ordered the Utah Highway Patrol to remove the 12 foot tall white crosses that are errected along Utah Highways where the Troopers were killed. The crosses have the Utah Highway Patrol insignia on them with the Troopers name.

An atheist group brought the lawsuit saying that this is a violtaion of the 1st ammendment seperation of church and state saying that the cross is a symbol of christianity and nothing else. The 3 judge panel in their infinite wisdom agreed and said that a person can reasonably infer that because Uah is using crosses means that they endorse christianity over other religions.

Like the Attorney General of Utah Said, Utah is three quarters mormon and almost all of the troopers that died were mormons but they chose to memorialize them with a cross because a cross always marks the spot where someone died, no matter what religion they were.

I think this is just another bad decision by the federal courts and another knock to the sensibilities and the moral fiber of this country.

God Help Us !!!!!

[stephen morea 1]

With all the bad and upside down in this country alone today this is what people are worried about? If a cross means that utah endorses chirstianity over other religions, this is what people are sitting down and talking about? wow........wow.

Edited August 19, 2010 by stephen morea

[abaduck 123]

In an incredible knock to the memories of the Brave Men and Women that have died in the line of duty serving the Utah Highway Patrol, the U.S. 10th circuit court of appeals has ordered the Utah Highway Patrol to remove the 12 foot tall white crosses that are errected along Utah Highways where the Troopers were killed. The crosses have the Utah Highway Patrol insignia on them with the Troopers name.

An atheist group brought the lawsuit saying that this is a violtaion of the 1st ammendment seperation of church and state saying that the cross is a symbol of christianity and nothing else. The 3 judge panel in their infinite wisdom agreed and said that a person can reasonably infer that because Uah is using crosses means that they endorse christianity over other religions.

Like the Attorney General of Utah Said, Utah is three quarters mormon and almost all of the troopers that died were mormons but they chose to memorialize them with a cross because a cross always marks the spot where someone died, no matter what religion they were.

I think this is just another bad decision by the federal courts and another knock to the sensibilities and the moral fiber of this country.

God Help Us !!!!!

Crime cop, I agree with a lot of what you say - and I agree with much of the above - but I'll pull you up on 'a cross always marks the spot where someone died, no matter what religion they were'.

I have several Pagan friends. A couple of them - very close friends - are Vietnam veterans. These guys had a HELL of a fight, over more than a decade, to get the Department of Veterans Affairs to approve the Pagan symbol (pentagram) for veteran's headstones. They approved dozens of other symbols, some for faiths you've probably never heard of ('Sufism Reoriented'? 'Konko-Kyo'??) - but when it came to the Pagans they resorted to every dirty trick in the bureaucratic book to frustrate them - sat on the applications, claimed the rules had changed and they had to reconsider, claimed they had suspended all new applications pending new rules... back to the beginning again... and so on for over a decade. You get the picture. They finally approved the headstones on the courthouse steps after being sued.

So yeah I'm sensitive to these issues. I have no objection to crosses and I think this was a dumb lawsuit. I have a BIG objection to any policy that says that ONLY crosses are allowed or provided.

[JBE 328]

This is ridiculous. It's not an endorsement of Christianity. If these guys were Jews, there would be a star of David. This is just another frivolous lawsuit by another special interest group trying to force an opinion on others. Words can't describe what I want to say. I guess the compromise is going to be one of those big green signs with the name of the deceased trooper.

People are dumb. Ruining everything because oh, someone might get offended. Thicker skin.

[islander 27]

An atheist group brought the lawsuit saying that this is a violtaion of the 1st ammendment seperation of church and state saying that the cross is a symbol of christianity and nothing else. The 3 judge panel in their infinite wisdom agreed and said that a person can reasonably infer that because Uah is using crosses means that they endorse christianity over other religions.

I guess the separation of church and state argument trumps the freedom of speech argument for the troopers honoring their colleagues.

[IzzyEng4 427]

The only thing they have to argue is that it not support of any one particular religion but to say they are using a religious symbol of the faith these troopers followed to honor them. If one of them was Jewish then a Star of David would be symbolized, a Muslim then the Crescent Moon would be utilized and if the trooper say was an atheist then a simple black bunting would be used. I wounder how that would sit in their bowl of Cheerios??

[helicopper 1,050]

A much simpler and less contentious issue would have been to use the Utah Highway Patrol SHIELD as the memorial marker and not use any religious symbol (or symbol that could be construed as religious). There would be no basis for any objection on constitutional grounds if they did that.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

A much simpler and less contentious issue would have been to use the Utah Highway Patrol SHIELD as the memorial marker and not use any religious symbol (or symbol that could be construed as religious). There would be no basis for any objection on constitutional grounds if they did that.

I do not see why using a cross as a memorial for the Troopers is the focus right now...but I do see how it can piss off certain groups. I agree with Helicopper and think they should have used the Utah Highway Patrol shield. However, is tis really a big deal?

[ny10570 745]

I guess the separation of church and state argument trumps the freedom of speech argument for the troopers honoring their colleagues.

Govt agencies and people acting in an official capacity on their behalf have no right to freedom of speech. Individuals and as an extension of an individual corporations have that right.

[FFBlaser 24]

I used to pass one of those crosses everyday on my way to training/school. It's a shame. They might as well remove all the crosses that are on public and govt. property. sheesh.

[bmfd231 3]

These people are tearing us apart from within! We are all worried about the terrorist overseas, but maybe the real terrorist is our government and those people who are working to dismantle us piece by piece right here on our own soil. I hope this battle continues to the Supreme Court

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Fine, if that's the way they want to play it, then Utah State DOT had better take down EVERY cross along the highway placed at the site of a motorist who was killed. Its government property and church and state blah blah blah...

[xfirefighter484x 234]

A much simpler and less contentious issue would have been to use the Utah Highway Patrol SHIELD as the memorial marker and not use any religious symbol (or symbol that could be construed as religious). There would be no basis for any objection on constitutional grounds if they did that.

I can see a visible badge, or something that someone could recognize as representing solely a Police agency, might be subject to vandalism of sorts. I would HOPE and think that crosses would incur less of such.

If only I lived out there, I personally would replace the forcibly removed memorials myself, thereby eliminating the involvement of the UHP themselves.

[64FFMJK 21]

Who exactly enforces this. The hell with it leave them up until some one calls the POLICE . I'm sure this is going to be appealed but how long do they have till the are supposed to remove the crosses.