Q2B Mechincal Siren? Whats your take on the Federal Siren

[57truck 1]

Do you think that the Q2b's are good sirens in addition to the regualr electronic sirens that are on most Fire Apparatus. Each Q2b in my point has its own distinct tone to it. Like 57truck's Q2b you can tell that the ladder is coming from like a mile down the road due to the projection of sound that the siren puts out

[Guest DG795]

I believe a Q2B should be on every fire apparatus. Although its distinct sound and tradition are very important, I have a more practical reason why they should always be present:

1. There is no siren on the market that delivers the Decibels of the Q2. As 57 Truck put it, you can hear the truck a mile away.

2. Its distinct sound has fire truck written all over it. The public knows the sound and associates it with not an ambulance, not a police car, but a fire truck. This tells people that there is a LARGE vehicle headed my why which I must yield to. I hate to use the word "intimidate" but the Q2 sound does have a very formitable appearance to the average civilian. Anyone who may think they can beat a siren through and intersection will have second thoughts if they hear a federal.

On another note about the Q2B, let me pose a scenario to drivers who prefer not to use it:

NYS V&T law requires emergency vehicles to operate with "due regard" NO other vehicle on the road is held to this standard. A unpreventable accident is defined by NYS Law as an accident in which the driver of an emergency vehicle did ALL he reasonably could to prevent the accident. Say you get in to an accident and you werent using the federal, only an electric siren, proven to give off less Db. A lawyer can turn this around and say that the accident could have been prevented if you used the Q2, and because it is reasonable for you to use it, you are at fault! Don't laugh...the law is written for interpretation, and it can happen.

[Mini-Attack9 39]

i would have to agree the Q2B's are the best sounding sirens on trucks.....but i would have to say the the best sound out of any of the Q2B's i have heard is from Bedford Hills Engine 199................................I really have a problem with the new electronic Q2B's it takes all the fun out of the Q2B's does anyone eles agree?

[Guest DG795]

one other thing.....there is an attachment on the market that is mounted on the Q2, it is a cone shaped device, about 8 inches wide, and it supposedly directs the sound more forward making it even louder. from what i hear, the piece is very expensive. my question is, does anyone have this accessory? and if so, does it really make a difference?

If anyone is curious as to what this device is, Laurel FD of Prince's George's County, MD has it on Tower 10 and Engines 101, 102, and 103 . Pictures are available at laurelvfd.org/trucks.htm

btw......isn't tower 10 a great looking truck? just my $0.02

[EMTbravo 312]

I agree , and tottally agree with DG, the Q produces a distinct sound that says to motorists "get out of the wa, big red truck) Well, not big red truck in some communities

There should be a law.......ALL Fire apparatus should have Q2's in Westchester.

As for the Q2B's, It still freaks me out when I hear a Q type sound coming from an ambulance or chiefs car, lol.

Now the best combination is a Q and a Q2B!

[Guest DG795]

Is the Q2B the electric version? i thought the electric "simulator" was labeled EQ2, and the mechanical was Q2B.

Also....Battalion 2 in yonkers has the electric federal...very unique, it has made me think there is another engine responding....

[57truck 1]

defiently the Q2B, theirs no comparsion between the electric version and the real "Mechincal Q2B". The old and more realistic Q2b blows any siren way. Like (DG795 said," The public knows the sound and associates it with not an ambulance, not a police car, but a fire truck. This tells people that there is a LARGE vehicle headed my why which I must yield to." You know that when your touching that foot pedal for the Q2B, that people are going to hear the siren.

[Remember585 815]

Something to keep in mind, the power draw of the mechanical sirens is massive. Older rigs (such as my engine) have had issues with them. Some solutions are to eliminate these, or to reduce other loads. We had the halogen power-sucking Federal aero-dynic lightbars replaced with Whelen Strobe bars. The result: More light, less draw, which in turn has allowed us to keep our faithful siren. We also have a Federal PA300 (A personal favorite) but, since we don't have the speaked in the bar anymore (Thank GOD!) it is mounted under the cab. This siren basically comes up through the floor and drives us nuts! So we rarely us it, and rely on the Q.

[RWC130 594]

Q2B ALL THE WAY!!!!!

A nice combo is the Federal Q2B with the Federal PA300 on Yelp!

Not that I am a BUFF or anything! That moves some traffic. haha

The electronic Q2B simulators are nice but nothing like a Q!

Don't simulate it, Just go out and buy one!

[EMTbravo 312]

From The LAFD

Dear Friend of the LAFD:

No Fire Service equipment topic seems to garner as much interest as  

sirens, and judging from the many who have asked, a new type of  

mechanical siren on LAFD emergency response vehicles is arousing a  

great deal of interest among fire buffs.  

We often hear both the piercing rise and fall of mechanical sirens as  

well as the synthesized rhythmic wail and yelp of electronic sirens  

in films and television shows. Is there a difference or a reason that  

we use one over the other?

The benefits and drawbacks of mechanical sirens (often referred to as

"growlers" or "coaster sirens") vs. electronic sirens has been debated

by fire service safety and fleet maintenance professionals for many

years. The results of such discussions are far from conclusive, and  

as a result, there is still much being assessed about these devices.  

Such is the case today at the Los Angeles Fire Department.

The LAFD historically used the famous B&M Super Chief mechanical  

siren - and not the ubiquitous Federal Q2b - on heavy apparatus until  

the early 1980's. Often times this was as an adjunct to electronic  

sirens, which gained popularity during the 1960's.

To listen to a professional recording of (Hall-Scott gasoline  

powerplant equipped!) LAFD Task Force 10 leaving their station in the  

mid-1960's and very gently tapping their Super-Chief's with the  

signature "Siro-Drift" sound:

http://www.lafd.org/hs.wav

Most of the LAFD's light vehicles, including ambulances have  

exclusively used electronic sirens as their primary warning device  

since their inception. Rather than having a motor that spins an  

impeller, these microchip equipped devices work much like a music  

synthesizer (albeit playing but two not so catchy tunes). Highly  

durable, easy to use and less-taxing on the battery and alternator of  

light vehicles these electronic sirens have proven popular across  

North America.

With a massive increase in warning lights, radios and other electronic

equipment on the Engines and Trucks, the LAFD phased out the use of

mechanical sirens, which are notorious electric power hogs. The

tremendous and often unpredictable amperage draw (which can be a  

killer to Mobile Data Terminals and laptop computers) and which  

spurred maintenance and reliability concerns - combined with the  

previous need to constantly control the siren with a foot switch,  

spelled the demise in the use of mechanical sirens at the LAFD.

Beginning in 1988, the entire LAFD fleet was switched over to an

electronic siren, which along with a Public Address system, was fully  

integrated into the Motorola radio control head that arrived with our  

then new 800 MHZ radio system.

With civilian passenger vehicles becoming more well insulated, and an

increase in electronic "siren-like" sounds appearing in everything  

from video games to car alarms and with Fire Service responses - and

collisions - on the rise nationwide, there has been a notion that we  

as Firefighters and Paramedics may wish to return to a more unique or

traditional sound.

In fact, that very notion has led firms to introduce several  

*mechanical sounding* electronic sirens, including an electronic  

version designed by Federal Signal to sound like their renowned model  

Q2b. Contrary to what some have surmised, the LAFD is not using the  

new generation of "mechanical-sounding" electronic sirens in new  

apparatus.

The most recent delivery of ambulances to the LAFD's 140+ unit fleet  

are indeed equipped with an adjunct mechanical siren, which is  

produced by San Bernardino-based:

http://www.timberwolfsirens.com

...at 28 amps running and 78 amps peak - and with a convenient  

automatic cycle feature and the ability to be operated or overridden  

by a floor switch - they are far less thirsty for precious on-board  

electric power than the venerable Q2b, which is reported to gulp 125  

amps running and a walloping 350 peak!

Again, the newest LAFD ambulances are still equipped with an  

electronic siren (wail and yelp) that meets all State of California  

Class A warning device standards, as well as the new Timberwolf  

mechanical siren as an adjunct. The ambulances also are equipped with  

the hi-lo air horns as an auxiliary signaling and warning system. The  

use of the Timberwolf siren (and a host of -far- more important  

equipment on the new ambulances) will be formally assessed by the  

LAFD's Equipment Engineering Unit on a continuing basis.

As far as heavy apparatus, the City's MICLA program has funded a

split-order of new Pumpers from both Seagrave and Pierce. The new rigs

will also be equipped with a mechanical siren as an adjunct. Half of  

the new deliveries will have the Timberwolf, while the other will be  

fitted with the Federal Q2b. This to my knowledge, will be the first  

time that an LAFD apparatus has been officially equipped with a  

Federal brand mechanical siren. As mentioned above, the LAFD's  

Equipment Engineering Unit will be similarly assessing the  

commonalities and differences of these products.

Regardless of the type of siren though, the law - and common sense -  

clearly dictate the seven simple steps that California Drivers (and  

those in most States and Provinces) should perform when they hear a  

siren and see an approaching emergency vehicle.  

1) Avoid making any sudden or abrupt move.  

2) Signal your intention

3) Slowly and carefully move to the rightmost portion of the road as  

quickly as possible without endangering or obstructing other  

motorists or emergency responders.  

4) Bring your vehicle to a full and complete stop as close to the  

right shoulder - or off the road if practical.  

5) Fire Department vehicles often respond in convoys or from  

different directions. Be certain that all emergency vehicles have  

passed before you safely attempt to re-enter traffic.  

6) Follow no closer than 300 feet from any emergency vehicle that is  

sounding a siren or displaying warning lights while in motion.  

7)Fire Engines and Ambulances often make sudden stops, U-turns or  

block traffic lanes on their way to help others. If being a spectator  

becomes a priority, the next siren you hear may be coming for you!

Remember... When you get behind the wheel: Heads Up, Easy on the  

Throttle and Expect the Unexpected!  

If you'd like to learn more about the technology and training being  

used to make Los Angeles Firefighters more safe and efficient, please  

stop by your Neighborhood Fire Station:

http://www.lafd.org/visit.htm

Respectfully Yours in Safety and Service,

Brian Humphrey

Firefighter/Paramedic

Public Information Officer

Los Angeles Fire Department

[chris498 31]

There is absolutely nothing in the world that let's people know you are coming better than a Federal Q2B! It is the greatest sound in the world, like music to my ears, and it always gets people out of the way! I'll take a Federal over any other siren any day of the week!!!!!!!!

[RadnorCo15 0]

I only started riding on/operating apparatus this past year with Q-sirens (none of the NY dept's I rode with had them). The difference is clear...the Q, with its loud, distinct sound, alerts motorists much farther ahead. No 200 watt electronic siren has the traffic moving power as the Q. Electronic sirens are a great adjunct or back up to a Q. My fire company put electronic Q-sirens in our ambulances with tremendous success, & I've spec'ed it into my VAC's bus. Some people don't like that sound eminating from an ambulance but the bottom line is it moves the cars. A great electronic siren that has comparable power to the Q is the Powercall Brand sirens http://www.powercallsirens.com/dx5.shtml(check out intersection mode) They, by virtue of their design, and sometimes obnoxious tones, project much farther then typical electronic sirens. When apparatus respond with E & Q sirens around town I can hear the Q or Powercall coming before the electronic siren.

[BFD1054 1,552]

I'd have to agree with the majority here....the Federal Q is the way to go!!! All of our apparatus were outfitted with them until the purchase of E-160(1991 Pierce-Lance). Our last apparatus to have one was E-162(1969 GMC-Young) and we sold that to Peekskill. I wanted to rip it out before we sold it, but nobody would help me or go along with the idea, can't figure out why lol. E-162 had no electric siren, so it was the Q and the air-horn, what a sweet combo...that really moved traffic! I feel that the Q should definately be on any and every fire apparatus, hands down!

As DG795 said....everyone knows that a fire apparatus is coming when they hear that distinctive sound and they know they need to get their a** outta the way! Now we have really cheap electric sirens on our 2 Engines and it annoys the hell outta me, i've heard police cars with better sirens than our Engines!!! My departments argument is that they are too expensive and they are, even the electric one runs for around $1,200. But i figure if it moves traffic safely, then it is worth it. We were pulling off our apron not to long ago red lights activated and siren(electric) on, and a car continued to travel past our firehouse and we had to jam on the brakes....how dangerous is that???

The Federal Q is real expensive....Does anyone out there know of any cheaper alternatives, or where to get decent second-hand/referbished Q's? BFD1054

[TRUCK6018 50]

There is no siren on the market that delivers the Decibels of the Q2.

While I'm not disagreeing with this statement, just playing devil's advocate. It is also proven that an electronic siren on wail produces the widest spread of sound on the audio spectrum.

This could also be argued in court for the same reasons described.

I personally think that anything with a Q should also have an electric as a backup as anything mechanical is more prone to fail thn electric. Case in point, you just get finish washing the engine and get sent out on another run. The outside air temperture is below freezing. It's very possible that the moisture in the Q will freezw up rendering the siren useless.

It happened to us twice this season so far.

Again, I'm not saying I'm an opponent of the Q. Just playing devil's advocate.