JFLYNN

I'm done for tonight..when I have time I will post the conclusion to this series of sloppy, but hopefully informative posts, entitled-
THE BOTTOM LINE- Short term and long term consequences of eliminating the YFD First Responder Program, and why, if it ever is eliminated, it will inevitably be reinstituted in 9-24 months.
In the meantime my friends, please...qtip.....

No worries Brother, I qtiped. Merry Christmas and saty safe!

John - I re-read this whole thread, including my own comments, and I want to clarify - I was not bashing the YFD or it's men..although reading my posts it would seem otherwise. Not my intention.
I have always had the greatest respect and ADMIRATION for the YFD, as many know..I have seen some of the ballsiest firefighting, and most compansionate caregiving from your members duiring my tenure at Empress..I would love to one day go back, but as you posted, so many of us move on...But the YFD is nothing but professional. The first responder program has saved countless lives, no doubt, and I hope it does not go away...the residents of Yonkers are blessed to have it. I always enjoyed calls i would do where Roone, or Eddie R., or so many others were on scene, because I LEARNED from them.
I have an in-law who is retired from your job, and I love BS'ing with him about the 80's and 90's in Yonkers, even if I cant understand his hispanic accent when we have a few cold ones and he really gets going..LOL
Thanks for taking the time and energy to post the information you did - I know there are things you would rather be doing, but it shows your pride in your men, and the JOB.
Merry Christmas to you and the entire YFD...stay safe.

Part 2- Now, to some of the misinformation that has been posted on this site in regard to the YFD First Responder Program.
Misinformation response # 1. This work constitutes a large majority of our responses, or our overall work. This is not accurate. First Responder runs account for approximately 55 % of our incidents. However, each of these incidents requires the response of only one Engine Company, and the Engine Company is generally back in service in 20 minutes or less, sometimes longer of course. Obviously to anyone familiar with the Fire Service, the typical incident any Fire Department responds to (the other approximately 45% ) involves many more apparatus and personnel for significantly longer periods of time. A First Responder run with utilizing one apparatue and 4 Firefighters for 15 minutes is one incident. A 3 Alarm Fire utilizing 14 apparatus, other vehicles, and a total of 63 or so Firefighters for six or seven hours is also one incident, kapeesh?? Furthermore, the "workload" of a Fire Department is not only responses, but also the necessary training, inspections, cleaning, maintenance of vehicles, equipment, etc.
Misinformation response # 1a. Therefore, although the rumored elimination of the First Responder Program may (not my area of expertise) allow certain contractual minimum personnel levels to no longer be adhered to, it will not obviate the necessity to have adequate Fire Companies and personnel available for Firefighting and other emergencies. Sure, no FD is as busy as twenty years ago with fire duty, and certainly not as busy as 30 or 40 years ago. Nonetheless, fires do still occur, and adequate personnel and equipment is necessary for this. There is a very valid reason that similar sized city FD's all over the U.S., and in fact the industrialized world conduct First Responder Programs- the very nature of a Fire Department requires Firefighters and their equipment to be readily available for guess what, fires! However, this ready availability of individuals who are trained to handle emergencies and have apparatus to quickly respond allows city sized Fire Departments to have personnel available to supplement the primary EMS response with First Response capability. This supplementation is able to be done by Firefighters who, for the most part, will need to be there, available, anyway! The Firefighters do not get tied up with transport (generally), transfer to the medical facility, PCR's, cleaning the ambulance, etc. So, they are able to go right back into service as soon as the patient has been placed in the ambulance, or in many cases, sooner, right?
Misinformation response # 2. Oh, here's an easy one- we have 4 Firefighters per apparatus (3 Firefighters and a Company Officer), not 5. That is the manning we have had per apparatus for over 30 years. It's hard to understand how any individual who would purport to understand the situation in Yonkers could state that this is all about reducing manning from 5 to 4 per apparatus, or words to that effect.
Misinformation response # 3. The majority of these runs are nuisance runs. Well, that depends on what you consider a nusiance run. The fact is that if we know in advance the situation is not a true medical emergency, then neither the Fire Department nor the emergency ambulance service shoud respond, right? The problem, which has been studied at the highest levels for many years, is how to deduce from the initial phone call what is and what isn't a "nuisance call"..I don't know how to quantify how many of these runs that YFD (and Empress) responds to are not true medical emergencies, but admittedly the number is significant, as it is in EMS systems almost everywhere. No one wants to respond on any type of alarm where we are not needed, and as soon as someone can find out how to deduce true emergency from nuisance run every time, please let us know!
END OF PART 2 TO BE CONTINUED

Great post my Brother, whoever you are, lol- please let me know your identity if you don't mind. Thanks to you and Capt. Smith for the informative posts and to all of our members for not discrediting ourselves or our department by engaging in name calling and nasty, unprofessional language. Of course I would never expect our guys to sink to the level that some others on this thread have sunk to, but thanks nonetheless...
I will add a bit from my perspective- please bear with me as I am exhausted and pressed for time do I will bang this out quickly and it may be a bit rough around the edges....
I am nearing the end of my career, and frankly, I don't really think I will be personally affected if in fact the YFD First Responder Program did end, although I sincerely doubt that will happen for long, if at all, and I will explain why below. In fact, I certainly have more to lose by posting on this topic rather than remaining silent as this will likely piss some people off...oh well...
I have been a member of YFD for almost 25 years, since before we had a First Responder Program. As a very junior Firefighter I was a member of the committee which some at the time said "ruined the job" by convincing first, Local 628, and later, with the backing of L-628, helped to convince the City Fathers that this program was a good idea. The union did not come up with the idea of this program or push for it at first. You see, years ago, YFD only responded on medical runs when there was a confirmed cardiac arrest and Empress Ambulance either was not available at all, or did not have enough personnel available to perform good CPR. We responded on those fairly often. We had only very basic first aid training and CPR. There were numerous times when we performed CPR for very long periods of time before the arrival of the ambulance. Sometimes a Paramedic fly car would arrive and we would wait, and wait....sometimes not even the fly car. The Empress employees were almost always professional, dedicated, and we had a great working relationship. It sure wasn't their fault that the number of ambulances available didn't meet the need at that moment. One day, at Engine 306 where I worked, a family ran in with a baby in respiratory distress who had actually turned blue. A senior man /EMT opened the airway and started Oxygen. The baby wound up being ok. The family was irate that they had called over 20 minutes before and we had not responded (we checked the times and this was accurate). We explained that FD did not get sent to these type of calls unless it was a cardiac arrest and Empress requested us. It was very upsetting to me/us to know that people who we were sworn to protect, particularly children, could be having a life threatening medical emergency that we would be able to assist with, yet we would not be called.
I really never wanted to do emergency medical work back then- I thought of myself as a Firefighter and my idea of a Firefighter was different than what it is today. Nonetheless, because of situations such as I have described above, I agreed with some other Firefighters who advocated for us to go on these runs more regularly as was being done in other parts of the country, and seemingly very successfully. It took a couple of years, but eventually the program began. At the time, approximately 22 years ago, it is my understanding that Empress was charging the City of Yonkers a flat 1 Million per year for their services plus the ability to recoup from billing. Almost as soon as we began the First Responder Program that ccontract was re-negotiated and Empress then waived this 1 Million dollar fee. Also, there was no minimum number of ambulances that were required to be dedicated to City of Yonkers- almost as soon as YFD began going on these runs,it was noticed how very bad Empress' response times were- not due to any fault of the overworked Empress EMT's and Medics, but again, because of a lack of appropriate resources. So, very shortly because of YFD complaints, Empress agreed to keep a minimum number of ALS and BLS units in the city and this was put into their contract. I also think that it was at this time that a certain maximum average response time for Empress BLS and ALS units was placed into Empress' contract which improved things dramatically. I guess if prior to YFD involvement no one was really paying attention to ressponse times, why bother having a lot of ambulances available- the number of billable patients was not dependent on response time- they would all wait as long as it took for the ambulance so why incur the expense if no one was complaining, right?
Admittedly, I haven't gone on a First Responder rum for almost 7 years now, but I did respond on very many over the years. Almost always, I found Empress employees to be fantastic and I thought we had a great working relationship, even if there was a bit of uncomfortability at times- egos and jealousy and just basic human misunderstanding on both sides creeps in of course, however in my opinion we were mostly all regular working people who enjoyed the adrenaline rush and especially, helping people. During the approximately 15 years that I went on First Responder runs with YFD there were very many times that we arrived significantly before Empress ambulance. The large majority of time we arrived at least a couple of minutes before Empress, and often, especially when I worked on the East side of Yonkers, more than 10 minutes prior to Empress. As Captain Smith was, I was involved in 2 successful childbirths (the Moms did basically all of the work of course but they were sure glad that we were there nonetheless) before Empress arrived (not the same ones), and I and my crew initiated CPR COUNTLESS TIMES before Empress' arrival. END OF PART 1 TO BE CONTINUED

Great post my Brother, whoever you are, lol- please let me know your identity if you don't mind. Thanks to you and Capt. Smith for the informative posts and to all of our members for not discrediting ourselves or our department by engaging in name calling and nasty, unprofessional language. Of course I would never expect our guys to sink to the level that some others on this thread have sunk to, but thanks nonetheless...
I will add a bit from my perspective- please bear with me as I am exhausted and pressed for time do I will bang this out quickly and it may be a bit rough around the edges....
I am nearing the end of my career, and frankly, I don't really think I will be personally affected if in fact the YFD First Responder Program did end, although I sincerely doubt that will happen for long, if at all, and I will explain why below. In fact, I certainly have more to lose by posting on this topic rather than remaining silent as this will likely piss some people off...oh well...
I have been a member of YFD for almost 25 years, since before we had a First Responder Program. As a very junior Firefighter I was a member of the committee which some at the time said "ruined the job" by convincing first, Local 628, and later, with the backing of L-628, helped to convince the City Fathers that this program was a good idea. The union did not come up with the idea of this program or push for it at first. You see, years ago, YFD only responded on medical runs when there was a confirmed cardiac arrest and Empress Ambulance either was not available at all, or did not have enough personnel available to perform good CPR. We responded on those fairly often. We had only very basic first aid training and CPR. There were numerous times when we performed CPR for very long periods of time before the arrival of the ambulance. Sometimes a Paramedic fly car would arrive and we would wait, and wait....sometimes not even the fly car. The Empress employees were almost always professional, dedicated, and we had a great working relationship. It sure wasn't their fault that the number of ambulances available didn't meet the need at that moment. One day, at Engine 306 where I worked, a family ran in with a baby in respiratory distress who had actually turned blue. A senior man /EMT opened the airway and started Oxygen. The baby wound up being ok. The family was irate that they had called over 20 minutes before and we had not responded (we checked the times and this was accurate). We explained that FD did not get sent to these type of calls unless it was a cardiac arrest and Empress requested us. It was very upsetting to me/us to know that people who we were sworn to protect, particularly children, could be having a life threatening medical emergency that we would be able to assist with, yet we would not be called.
I really never wanted to do emergency medical work back then- I thought of myself as a Firefighter and my idea of a Firefighter was different than what it is today. Nonetheless, because of situations such as I have described above, I agreed with some other Firefighters who advocated for us to go on these runs more regularly as was being done in other parts of the country, and seemingly very successfully. It took a couple of years, but eventually the program began. At the time, approximately 22 years ago, it is my understanding that Empress was charging the City of Yonkers a flat 1 Million per year for their services plus the ability to recoup from billing. Almost as soon as we began the First Responder Program that ccontract was re-negotiated and Empress then waived this 1 Million dollar fee. Also, there was no minimum number of ambulances that were required to be dedicated to City of Yonkers- almost as soon as YFD began going on these runs,it was noticed how very bad Empress' response times were- not due to any fault of the overworked Empress EMT's and Medics, but again, because of a lack of appropriate resources. So, very shortly because of YFD complaints, Empress agreed to keep a minimum number of ALS and BLS units in the city and this was put into their contract. I also think that it was at this time that a certain maximum average response time for Empress BLS and ALS units was placed into Empress' contract which improved things dramatically. I guess if prior to YFD involvement no one was really paying attention to ressponse times, why bother having a lot of ambulances available- the number of billable patients was not dependent on response time- they would all wait as long as it took for the ambulance so why incur the expense if no one was complaining, right?
Admittedly, I haven't gone on a First Responder rum for almost 7 years now, but I did respond on very many over the years. Almost always, I found Empress employees to be fantastic and I thought we had a great working relationship, even if there was a bit of uncomfortability at times- egos and jealousy and just basic human misunderstanding on both sides creeps in of course, however in my opinion we were mostly all regular working people who enjoyed the adrenaline rush and especially, helping people. During the approximately 15 years that I went on First Responder runs with YFD there were very many times that we arrived significantly before Empress ambulance. The large majority of time we arrived at least a couple of minutes before Empress, and often, especially when I worked on the East side of Yonkers, more than 10 minutes prior to Empress. As Captain Smith was, I was involved in 2 successful childbirths (the Moms did basically all of the work of course but they were sure glad that we were there nonetheless) before Empress arrived (not the same ones), and I and my crew initiated CPR COUNTLESS TIMES before Empress' arrival. END OF PART 1 TO BE CONTINUED

State the facts, The city wants to close two companies. Making a Department that is already spread thin, even thinner.
The city knows very well Empress could never duplicate our service. Not because of the Empress employees, but simply because our services are dedicated to the residents of Yonkers. We are always within the city limits, unlike Empress, who will do what they can to make a buck. So there is no "claim" that Empress is for profit, it's the truth. You did fail to mention this "free" service you will be providing will cost the taxpayers millions of dollars. Also, "your mostly at your own cost" Haz-mat equipment was provided to you by the taxpayer, through the fire department.
As stated you'll be receiving A MEDIC, who will not be able to transport and who will not be able to provide CPR efficiently. As you emphaszed on, our very good pay, benefits and great pension ensure that our staffing leveles are well maintained. Unlike Empress, where there is constantly new faces, there is consistancy in our department. Our manning not only Gaurantees when you dial 9-1-1 you will have a quick response, but also that if additional aide is needed, it's there. What will Empress do when they are short of staff?
Many times our members have been asked to drive the bus or ride in the back because the Empress crew could not handle the situation with only two people. So when you say "we dump the patient care" on you to do the "meat and potatoes", I have to disagree. Because we're doing the "meat and potatoes" before Empress is even there. Again, this is not an attack on the crews, it merely states the truth. In fact, their Local should be concerned with the greater risks their members are going to be taking. Empress would have to fly through intersections, drive at dangerous speeds just to make it there in 8-10 minutes. Not to mention other risks like responding to projects where the YFD would send two units, or lifting heavy patients. It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt.
I also find it ironic that you state that our full time job is fighting fires, not EMS. Yet you also state that 80% of our calls are EMS related, contradicting yourself, no?
628 is in no way attacking the Union, so please do not come on here instigating that our union is attacking the union of the Empress employees. Your post seems like more of an advertisement, scripted for you by the city, to turn the private sector unions against public sector unions. The facts are the city is breaking a contractual agreement with 628 and making an agreement with Empress without putting it out for bid. Back room deals which are all too common in Yonkers, and result in the taxpayer paying more for less. So again, please stop claiming that we are trashing another union. But if this what you must do, I guess desperate times do call for desperate measures.

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.
It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.
There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

That's Chris Williams- a Superstar. I'm in the bucket behind him w/ A.Liberatore- another Superstar.

The other rig is Ladder 72. My Dad is riding the engine in this pic- Officer seat.

Thought I would mention that the guy with no helmet in this pic is Assistant Chief Vinny Muller. A great Chief and a true gentleman. He was killed while walking his dog in Tibbetts Park by a hit and run driver. Subsequently, an off duty NYPD Officer was convicted of tampering with evidence for disposing of his car by cutting it up and hiding it in a relatives attic upstate. Neither he not anyone else was actually able to be convicted for the real crime, but many of us feel we know who did it.
I got to know Vinny while assigned to E-303 as a Firefighter in early 90's which is where Batt-1 rides out of.
BTW, these were the short lived days of the yellow turnout coats.

Well, as someone who has been a part of the first response in the YFD for the past 22 years, I couldn't care less about what you Bull might find overdramatic, or what you Jack might find unnecessary and unprofessional. I've spent the majority of my career in SW yonkers and have seen good and i have seen bad when it comes to Empress. I, like JFlynn believe the 2 entities work well together (give or take a nut in a safari hat). But I believe the first salvo fired in this episode came from the bosses at Empress when they stated blatantly false response times in an effort to seize sole control over EMS in Yonkers, knowing full well it would cost jobs in the yfd, and worse yet, put the lives of the citzens at risk. So what would the main benefit be ? Greater profit maybe ? I don't know what was uglier , the false numbers being produced by Empress, or the roll the dice attitude exhibited by the city for the sole purpose of breaking contracts. It seems to me the Bosses at Empress were well aware of what the repercussions were to be had the first responder program ended . For the most part , the buses arrive in a timely manner, but I have witnessed 10 minute plus response way too often, and for Empress to tell the city that there would be no difference in service without the YFD is misleading at best. That to me is unprofessional. This, coming from someone who has delivered 2 chlidren , shocked and initiated cpr on too many to count, all because Empress wasn't on scene in a timely manner. Capt. Geo. Smith YFD

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.
It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.
There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.
It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.
There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.
It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.
There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.
It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.
There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.
It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.
There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.
It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.
There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.
It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.
There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.
It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.
There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

It's apples and oranges...if you asked the waiter in a restaurant, for say, apple pie, and he told you it would take 10 minutes to arrive at the table, but if you would rather, you can order orange soufle, which might arrive in 5 minutes, or perhaps take as long as 30 minutes, depending on the chef's mood, most people would order the apple pie...

Wrong wrong wrong. If we have learned anything in the past few years it's get water on the seat of the fire fast and first.

AND it is probably the last time you went to that restaurant.
While we are on the subject of apple pie, if your neighbor said he was a little hard up financially, I am sure you would share some of your pie with him.
But if he starts you for pie too often, you would probably tell him to find somebody else to mooch food from.

Chief Flynn orders pie instead of mutual aid
"Batt 1 to Dispatch have the apple pie locate near exposure #1 and report to the CP"

I know apple pie is "all-American", but I would like to try the orange souffle if YFD is buying.