efdcapt115

Thank you. I was going to just let this float off the board, what with this crazy day and the "big statement" this pilot had to make about his problems with the gov't.
Anyway, since I have this shared moment in the "spotlight" with a suicidal bass player (ironic if you look at my photo holding a guitar for Chr*st sake, but that's how it goes right?)
I want to talk a bit about the members you mentioned here, all of the members here are included in this sort of critique if you will, but I'm just going to wing it, and do the best I can with it.
First, there's Seth. Here he is today, in the heart of the madness in the country for today, just like he mentioned being in NY for 9/11. Can't the big stuff just leave the guy alone?
Seriously though, I'm here posting on a website that he created, and too often we take him for granted and some are critical because he shows his raw emotion at times. Seth, we know you've been through some tough sh*t in yor day, and you bounced back and gave us all a place to spend our time and share our thoughts. So thank you brother.
I'm no shill but come on guys, this site is growing in popularity and activitiy, and professionalism, and technical advancement. You think this is all a freebee? Some of y'all need to man up and help the guy out with some finances.....kay 'nuff said.
Chris192, flyin over all of us, keepin an eye and keepin it real. Stay safe up there bro.
Then we get to Chief Raftery. Why first amongst the posters? Cause the man earned it, that's why. Deputy Chief, college degree in fire science, published in fire engineering, one of the wittiest b@st@rds to ever post here. I'm proud to say he's a legacy of the Eastchester fire Dept, his dad worked there, I know cause I looked at his picture often in our headquarters. And here he comes on this board, modestly at first, then blasting us with that witt and wisdom he has been famous for his whole career. Thank you chief, for continuing your service, even now. And you're right, you cant get a good loaf of bread south of Philly.
Captain Nechis. Where does one start. I mean I'm old school, even though I'm still technically young. Then I meet Barry some years ago. And he starts going on about SEMO and FEMA and who the heck, and what the h*ll, and I'm like "this guy eats fire department". I'm telling you, now with this consolidation study out; you see who was involved big time right? Captain Nechis knows more in his sleep then I ever knew about the fire service. He even recerted my cpr, thanks Cap.
Chief Flynn. I never met you sir, but I have to say if you were my boss you'd have my respect. I know alot of the volunteer members here get crawly skin when you bring things up. You do stir the pot and post provocative questions. Your last name should be Johnson cause you invented the QTIP. I have NEVER met a Yonkers firefighter who didn't have a very large heart inside that gruffness. Truly a great bunch of gentlemen, from Chief Fitz to Batt 2 (I met Dennis smith once and invited Batt 2 to come, but he dissed it, haha too bad I got his autograph Kieron!) to YFD910 MY BROTHER, YFD610 who has shut up ever since chief flynn told him too (good job probie lol) love ya.
16fire5, M'Ave, our brothers from NYCEMS, it's truly an honor to have FDNY members particpate in this forum imho. You are a great job, the greatest job, lucky b@stards, stay safe all of you.
The volunterer members I communicate with in private and discuss training and fireground; gentlemen. Thank you for the respect, it comes right back at ya.
ALSfirefighter (BNechis blood relative, he just don't know it) dude, 3,000+ posts? How are dem fingers holdin up?
Chr*st, we even got a Canadian comin' down here with his "I pay for my own meals" thing goin' on, his extremely proud Class A photo. You GOTTA love that guy! Welcome Nova Scotia, the most beautiful Province. how's that medals count goin' for y'all? (just kiddin bro).
A guy from England named after 10 house. I seen them guys at the funerals. Very cool. Wish I had a chance to get England and check out Big Ben and Parliament, and then hit the pubs for a straight 24.....
All y'all. I don't wanta wind it out too far here. It's cool that I got 100 posts, but truly, if you want to look for the knowledge on this board, it's all of you combined. I'm just a knucklehead (ask ANYBODY from my job), it's good to be alive, f*** flyin a plane into a building it ain't that bad.
And the lurkers out there, chiefhac and elvis, two guys that eat fire department and had the most amazing careers, if you guys ever start posting, the whole game is gonna change here.
~Firematically,
Captain George Glover (ret)
EFD

Thank you. I was going to just let this float off the board, what with this crazy day and the "big statement" this pilot had to make about his problems with the gov't.
Anyway, since I have this shared moment in the "spotlight" with a suicidal bass player (ironic if you look at my photo holding a guitar for Chr*st sake, but that's how it goes right?)
I want to talk a bit about the members you mentioned here, all of the members here are included in this sort of critique if you will, but I'm just going to wing it, and do the best I can with it.
First, there's Seth. Here he is today, in the heart of the madness in the country for today, just like he mentioned being in NY for 9/11. Can't the big stuff just leave the guy alone?
Seriously though, I'm here posting on a website that he created, and too often we take him for granted and some are critical because he shows his raw emotion at times. Seth, we know you've been through some tough sh*t in yor day, and you bounced back and gave us all a place to spend our time and share our thoughts. So thank you brother.
I'm no shill but come on guys, this site is growing in popularity and activitiy, and professionalism, and technical advancement. You think this is all a freebee? Some of y'all need to man up and help the guy out with some finances.....kay 'nuff said.
Chris192, flyin over all of us, keepin an eye and keepin it real. Stay safe up there bro.
Then we get to Chief Raftery. Why first amongst the posters? Cause the man earned it, that's why. Deputy Chief, college degree in fire science, published in fire engineering, one of the wittiest b@st@rds to ever post here. I'm proud to say he's a legacy of the Eastchester fire Dept, his dad worked there, I know cause I looked at his picture often in our headquarters. And here he comes on this board, modestly at first, then blasting us with that witt and wisdom he has been famous for his whole career. Thank you chief, for continuing your service, even now. And you're right, you cant get a good loaf of bread south of Philly.
Captain Nechis. Where does one start. I mean I'm old school, even though I'm still technically young. Then I meet Barry some years ago. And he starts going on about SEMO and FEMA and who the heck, and what the h*ll, and I'm like "this guy eats fire department". I'm telling you, now with this consolidation study out; you see who was involved big time right? Captain Nechis knows more in his sleep then I ever knew about the fire service. He even recerted my cpr, thanks Cap.
Chief Flynn. I never met you sir, but I have to say if you were my boss you'd have my respect. I know alot of the volunteer members here get crawly skin when you bring things up. You do stir the pot and post provocative questions. Your last name should be Johnson cause you invented the QTIP. I have NEVER met a Yonkers firefighter who didn't have a very large heart inside that gruffness. Truly a great bunch of gentlemen, from Chief Fitz to Batt 2 (I met Dennis smith once and invited Batt 2 to come, but he dissed it, haha too bad I got his autograph Kieron!) to YFD910 MY BROTHER, YFD610 who has shut up ever since chief flynn told him too (good job probie lol) love ya.
16fire5, M'Ave, our brothers from NYCEMS, it's truly an honor to have FDNY members particpate in this forum imho. You are a great job, the greatest job, lucky b@stards, stay safe all of you.
The volunterer members I communicate with in private and discuss training and fireground; gentlemen. Thank you for the respect, it comes right back at ya.
ALSfirefighter (BNechis blood relative, he just don't know it) dude, 3,000+ posts? How are dem fingers holdin up?
Chr*st, we even got a Canadian comin' down here with his "I pay for my own meals" thing goin' on, his extremely proud Class A photo. You GOTTA love that guy! Welcome Nova Scotia, the most beautiful Province. how's that medals count goin' for y'all? (just kiddin bro).
A guy from England named after 10 house. I seen them guys at the funerals. Very cool. Wish I had a chance to get England and check out Big Ben and Parliament, and then hit the pubs for a straight 24.....
All y'all. I don't wanta wind it out too far here. It's cool that I got 100 posts, but truly, if you want to look for the knowledge on this board, it's all of you combined. I'm just a knucklehead (ask ANYBODY from my job), it's good to be alive, f*** flyin a plane into a building it ain't that bad.
And the lurkers out there, chiefhac and elvis, two guys that eat fire department and had the most amazing careers, if you guys ever start posting, the whole game is gonna change here.
~Firematically,
Captain George Glover (ret)
EFD

I viewed this video earlier in the day.. I compliment them for establishing a FAST team, and I can only go by what the video shows only.
From what I saw in the video, we saw three sides of the structure, with only one ladder extended, not to say there wasn't one on the fourth, presumably the 'b' of the structure. I am not sure how many of those folks were FAST or just standby crews in staging waiting to do whatever, but I am sure there are a few rigs around them, why not ladder each side of the building for safe measure? A proactive FAST team as far IMO should be concerned with such matter themselves. Albeit no one is perfect when it comes to laddering - at least they had on raised! I have see in person and otherwise buildings without any type of laddering...
The firefighter looking to bail, I feel bad for him because he looked worn out - whether the heat and smoke got to him, or he ran out of air and took in some nasty stuff, or whatever - he looked exhausted to me, really hard to execute something like that in that condition I imagine. After a long day of training it is not so easy, I can only imagine having to do it when it hits the fan.
Circumstances are often left out of such videos, so events revolving the incident can only be judged on what was seen. I often hate critiquing a video because there is always the aspect of what we didn't see - so I am just stating that my conclusions are based on what I did see.
Stay safe everyone.

I just wanted to congratulate efdcapt115 for being the first member to earn a reputation of 100. He provides excellent info and insight to the members of this forum. Being a younger member of the fire service, we learn a lot from the posts of the more experienced and knowledgable members of this site. I wish him continued success here.
I would also like to thank all of the other members who post here, as there are several other members who will be reaching the 100 mark soon. These are the guys that really make EMTBravo what it is.
Thanks again.

It goes away from the dumpster explosion LODD, but it's a double LODD with a very comprehensive report. A very worthy direction for this thread imho.
This added report from 16fire5 is a must read for all firefighters. Everytime I read one of these reports, it gives me knots in my stomach; but it is an absolute neccesity that all brothers read this report very carefully. From the read it seems to me HFD is extremely advanced in their technology (the GRACE system), fireground tactics weren't perfect but decent, the IC did things pretty well; but a couple of tragic easily made mistakes led to two dead firefighters; an experienced Captain, and a probie who did ten years in the military, and this was his first....and last fire.
PLEASE READ:
SFMO Fire Fighter Fatality Investigation Case FY 09-01
Excellent addition to the thread; take the time and click that link bros.

Great article Chief "Moses"!

Capt,
Since I have gotten promoted I definatly read a lot more of these fatality reports. THe IAFF pushed hard for NIOSH to do these investigations so we could all learn from them and the contributing factors. I read one the other day that I recommend for anyone with the time.
http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/reports/fire/documents/fmloddhouston09.pdf

The first paragraph was a Toluene tank in Phoenix, AZ. A common training video to illustrate tunnel vision. I respect Chief Buunacini while chief they shared the hard lessons they learned that resulted in line of duty deaths. This incident and the Supermarket fire that killed Bret Tarver immediatly come to mind.
On to the dumpster fire. I think you hit the nail on the head here Capt. when you say how the department and company must know their district. Knowing the products and the intracies of what goes on can guide the strategies and tactics for responses to the facility. And the strategy may very well have been to let it burn. Some of the sugestions of flooding or using the deck pipe all probably could have caused explosion because of the contents. Knowing you area and preplanning to often are taking a back seat to all the other things on our plate.

This incident really concerns me. I cannot recall ever hearing or reading of an incident of this type; an exploding dumpster that killed a firefighter. We've all seen BLEVEs in our time. I also recall one incident where firefighters were cutting open the side of a Silo with a partner saw, hosing down the blade to prevent sparks when the particulate matter inside the silo exploded, blowing the cut section out and killing a firefighter.
But this incident is unique. Naturally with hindsight it's easy to say the department involved should have been aware of the occupancy; an aluminum sand casting plant, that should have raised red flags with regard to the contents of the dumpster.
Do you know the industrial sites within your response area; what they manufacture, and what they would be disposing of as a biproduct of their manufacturing? Sure if you have a furniture plant in your district you would be aware of the fire load and chemical hazards within the plant, but how many of us have the awareness to think that the disposal areas outside the plant could be time-bombs just waiting for water to be added to create an explosion hazard?
In my time, the thing that most concerned me was auto-exposure from a dumpster to the structure itself. I mostly thought if the contents contained something dangerous it would be latex paint cans, or possibly spray paint. We had numerous dumpster fires, and pulled the engine close enough to extinguish the fire with a 100' trash line. But now, after this, I think I wouldn't do it anymore.
What about a gasoline can in the dumpster, like Bill pointed out? Or a discarded propane tank, that somebody just dropped in the garbage in the dark of night?
I really think this incident should be given GREAT attention by all fire departments. The NIOSH report should be poured over by everyone. And immediately, ALL dumpster fires should be approached as if they are ALL capable of exploding, and causing death or injury to firefighters.
How about this; if there is no exposure issue with a burning dumpster, why not just automatically create a hot-zone, and do not attempt to extinguish it? I mean, what are we actually "saving" anyway? A dumpster? Certainly not the contents. IMHO, let it burn out, and stay away.
This fatal incident should be given high priority and put all departments on notice to NOT continue business as usual. Dumpsters have become EXTREMELY hazardous, and ALL dumpster fires should be treated as haz-mat incidents from now on. For God sake, this thing went off like an IED!

Thanks for adding to, and bumping up this topic Lieu. I always thought since this LODD happened, we never paid enough attention to it.

So you're saying your municipal sanitation empties dumpsters? I thought dumpsters were pretty much exclusive to private carting companies. If a company violates municipal code regarding what they can or cannot dispose of, are they subjected to penalty?

This incident really concerns me. I cannot recall ever hearing or reading of an incident of this type; an exploding dumpster that killed a firefighter. We've all seen BLEVEs in our time. I also recall one incident where firefighters were cutting open the side of a Silo with a partner saw, hosing down the blade to prevent sparks when the particulate matter inside the silo exploded, blowing the cut section out and killing a firefighter.
But this incident is unique. Naturally with hindsight it's easy to say the department involved should have been aware of the occupancy; an aluminum sand casting plant, that should have raised red flags with regard to the contents of the dumpster.
Do you know the industrial sites within your response area; what they manufacture, and what they would be disposing of as a biproduct of their manufacturing? Sure if you have a furniture plant in your district you would be aware of the fire load and chemical hazards within the plant, but how many of us have the awareness to think that the disposal areas outside the plant could be time-bombs just waiting for water to be added to create an explosion hazard?
In my time, the thing that most concerned me was auto-exposure from a dumpster to the structure itself. I mostly thought if the contents contained something dangerous it would be latex paint cans, or possibly spray paint. We had numerous dumpster fires, and pulled the engine close enough to extinguish the fire with a 100' trash line. But now, after this, I think I wouldn't do it anymore.
What about a gasoline can in the dumpster, like Bill pointed out? Or a discarded propane tank, that somebody just dropped in the garbage in the dark of night?
I really think this incident should be given GREAT attention by all fire departments. The NIOSH report should be poured over by everyone. And immediately, ALL dumpster fires should be approached as if they are ALL capable of exploding, and causing death or injury to firefighters.
How about this; if there is no exposure issue with a burning dumpster, why not just automatically create a hot-zone, and do not attempt to extinguish it? I mean, what are we actually "saving" anyway? A dumpster? Certainly not the contents. IMHO, let it burn out, and stay away.
This fatal incident should be given high priority and put all departments on notice to NOT continue business as usual. Dumpsters have become EXTREMELY hazardous, and ALL dumpster fires should be treated as haz-mat incidents from now on. For God sake, this thing went off like an IED!

You can't blame the civilian as they only do what they think is right for what they are experiencing. They have no training or other stimulus in their brain to guide them to an appropriate action. Unlike as someone mentioned, colleagues who do even stupider, things.
1. Someone was right when they said don't f*(K with Marines.
2. Kujo I now know what is wrong with you. lol. Speaking of don't mess with Marines, EOD and some of my experiences....
Often like Kujo stated during training some ordinance doesn't detonate, especially with CBU's (cluster bomblets). At times EOD would be "tied up" at other requests, or sleeping to calm their nerves and their response ETA didn't fit into your operational time table. So...most often this would be handled by ghetto EOD which comprised of me or the other Forward Observer or Forward Air Controller to drop more ordinance in the area to then ensure it either detonated or disintegrated.

These people have NO IDEA that they RUINED a GREAT LUNCH PLAN at the firehouse!
Oh, so you have a bomb eh?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=508_1266295805
Edit: Better put in this disclaimer, the video is graphic, and obviously NOT the way to handle "good samaratans" who bring bombs to firehouses.....unless you have a prime rib roast in the meat spinner....nah, don't do it anyway.

While doing routine inspections, our guys found a military rocket in aa basement storeroom of 6 story OMD..
Small rocket...probably would have only made it to the 4th floor.

OK it looks like story time.
Once upon a time there was a very large strip shopping center whose parking lot straddled two jurisdictions. Quite a few people beat a few arrests because the "jurisdiction that they were arrested in" was wrong. The PD's agreed to paint the city line across the parking lot (3 or 4 city blocks long) so it would very clear where the arrest was made.
Then, one day, an engine Co. from one of the jurisdictions was spotted by a politico, shopping at a market 300 ft out ot their city. (That particular Eng. Co. has no supermarkets in its company area) The poop hit the air circulator,(despite all the logic explained by the guilty Eng. Co.) and City A's FD was banned from shopping out of town for any reason.
Along comes the Eng. Co. from city B. The supermarket lies in city B.
Always willing to help a brother, the City B engine agrees to meet the City A engine at 10:00am every morning at the shopping center, both on the proper side of the city line. The shopping list was passed over the city line, along with the money and you know the rest.
It didn't last too long. Logic prevailled, and logic will probably prevail in Boston, too.
Footnote: I kinda liked the painted line, myself. You don't have to fill out the full NFIRS if your guys can push the car fire over the line before WP (oops... I meant to say City A) gets there.

If we wanted free food we shoulda been cops

If we wanted free food we shoulda been cops

If we wanted free food we shoulda been cops

If we wanted free food we shoulda been cops

If we wanted free food we shoulda been cops

If we wanted free food we shoulda been cops

Take a look! Mass. law requires meal periods just like NY FF's who eat at the House do not get these bresks as required...How many times have you guys left your lunch on the table to take a run? Look at the Mass labor law eplaiined:
"Breaks during the work day keep us all sane and safe. Allowing breaks during the workday isn't just a matter of practice or what might be viewed as nice. In fact, Massachusetts law does regulate meal breaks and whether employers are required to pay employees for those breaks. To help answer this question, I consulted David Conforto, founder and managing partner of Conforto Law Group, a Boston boutique firm that represents workers in employment law matters.
"Massachusetts employees who work more than six hours a day must be provided with a minimum of 30 minutes unpaid time for a meal. Employers who violate this provision are subject to fines ranging from $300 to $600 per violation"
If you go on a run during your "meal period," the city sent you on that run and interrupted your meal period. The city then would be in violation and subject to a $300 to $600 fine for each person in your company.
On the other hand, giving meal periods to all FF's working on any given day would be a costly administrative nightmare.
My advice on shopping FF's? Let them sshop. It really doesn't cost a lot, and if you call, they'll still be at your front door in three minutes.

One interesting thing I have learned from this thread is we need to consolidate documentation. The Yonkers incident I recieved the call narative from YFD (in looking at it, they sent 2 narratives with the incident location info cut off in the fax) so the 2 incidents may have been switched. The MV incident report was handed to me by the DC who was incharge that day (so if there are inacuracies in what was written, those issues never made it into the original incident reports).
All chiefs in the career chiefs were asked to review the study for acuracy prior to the final, and neither of these issues came up.
This shows how critical good documentation is after the fact.
I believe the examples are still valid, as the problems identified still remain.

It is that time of year for many departments, including many last night. Just wanted to start a thread for folks to talk about their elections and post results if they want to.
Last night, we at the Millerton Fire Company held our annual elections for officers of the 2010 calender year, and the results are as follows.
Fire:
Chief: Jason Watson
Deputy Chief: Shawn Morrison
Company Chief: Jim Milton
Captain: Robbie Klippel
1st Lieutenant: Christopher Segelken
2nd Lieutenant: Joshua Schultz
Rescue Squad:
Rescue Squad Captain: Nancy Ellis
Rescue Squad Lieutenants: Mark McAvoy and Donna Flynn
Civil Officers:
President: Lennie Morrison
Vice President: Mike Segelken
Treasurer: Al Andrews
Secretary: Nancy Ellis