wraftery

Almost always, regardless of how the company is structured, is seems like volunteer officers control volunteer firefighters and career officers control volunteer officers and firefighters.
The important thing is to stay curteous on scene. As a volunteer Lieu, would gladly accept a command from a career firefighter on scene if it made sense. When I'm working with a career Lieu or above, I always consult with him about the direction to take. In combination departments, the career FFs and officer would naturally work together because they ride together and arrive together. When the vollies get to the scene they meet up with their officer and do what needs to be done.
This only becomes a big issue if someone on either side is a hot head. I find it very important to get a second opinion whenever possible because someone else may see/know something you didn't.

HOW 'BOUT THIS:
An unnamed city has a hydrant system but it is getting old and needs upgrade to support the hi rises that a couple of hypothetical developers (let's call them Cappelli and Trump) want to build. They feel that the United Water customers (who are exactly the same people as the taxpayers)
should foot the bill for upgrades. The developers get what they want, but the FD should really double in size to protect these buildings. Amazingly, the hypothetical developers got a big tax break to build these buildings in the first place. The FD was part of the planning process, but more or less ignored.
Are you confused yet?? Maybe the unnamed City Council got confused too.. What's why they voted for it. Believe it or not, it happened in another unnamed city nearby, too.
Now both unnamed cities are talking Layoffs!
I said "you get what you pay for" but I will take that back. Sometimes you pay dearly and get nothing.
Oh...PS...Trump and Cappelli are doing OK...Thanks for asking

Cities & villages are not required to provide water. We do not, even though its been proven to be a money maker for those cities that do.
Agreed.
While fire districts do not have a legal responsability, they have a moral one, see my response below from this thread.

That sounds great at the beginning, but it wears thin really quick if you do strike. Speaking as one who endured a long strike some years ago (19 weeks to be exact) I witnessed union Brothers & Sisters having their cars repossessed, their houses foreclosed and bank accounts drained to nothing. And all while the company conducted business as usual (with the help of Scabs of course). Trust me, no one wins in a strike. You'll never make up the money you lose, pension credits lost and don't forget, unless the union can afford to pay it, there is the full cost of those nasty medical insurance premiums you'll have to absorb at the same time (sort of makes socialized medicine look attractive). The public isn't too sympathetic with unions these days and the municipalities know this. If they had to, they'd bring in replacement workers (Scabs) from companies like Rural Metro in a heartbeat. And if Rural Metro screwed things up (which they probably would), the municipality would blame the unions for walking off the job. It'd be a PR nightmare for for the union and could take years to repair. Oh, and to add insult to injury the municipality would have the right to permanently replace you.
You guys have got the best of both worlds with Binding Arbitration and no strike clause. There are those of us in the private sector that wish we had that. Never give up binding arbitration/no strike no matter how bad things seem. It can get a lot worse.

Don't worry. You'll be using your "old" 4.5 for a long time. Nationwide FF's are being laid off, and I don't know of any FD that can afford to give away their 4.5's and buy the slim jim model.
Personally, if I were crawling down a hot hallway, I would rather have 2 bruthas in old Scotts than only one guy in the new one. Put the new pak on my wish list, but don't lay off my Firefighter.
Sorry, that's the times we are in.

Don't worry. You'll be using your "old" 4.5 for a long time. Nationwide FF's are being laid off, and I don't know of any FD that can afford to give away their 4.5's and buy the slim jim model.
Personally, if I were crawling down a hot hallway, I would rather have 2 bruthas in old Scotts than only one guy in the new one. Put the new pak on my wish list, but don't lay off my Firefighter.
Sorry, that's the times we are in.

The no strike clause and severe penalty for striking (2 day's pay for every day on strike) is there to insure the public will be protected. WE cops and FF have to really believe a strike is necessary before taking that 2-day hit.
What's the penalty for city council reducing public protection by laying off cops and ff?

NOBODY has ever walked out of arbitration happy. That's the whole point...the arbitrator usually takes both agruements and meets in the middle. Have you met Feiner? One time he tried to close the Tappan Zee Bridge on Sundays and use it for bicycles and joggers.

NOBODY has ever walked out of arbitration happy. That's the whole point...the arbitrator usually takes both agruements and meets in the middle. Have you met Feiner? One time he tried to close the Tappan Zee Bridge on Sundays and use it for bicycles and joggers.

If it wasn't in German, I'd have guessed it was the Sprain Parkway. Look at all those cars that passed the fire and didn't stop to ckeck on the driver. I guess they were late for work. Nobody slowed to tell the guy his car was in fire either.
George are you sure it wasn't the Sprain Pkwy?

That response doesn't need much thought! 99subi koodos to you for telling it like it is. It's a well known thought process with guys like yourself (gamewell45), for sticking your head in the sand. If you can just convince yourself to see the big picture, things would be more clear for you. The day of the dedicated, blue collar, working in town, volunteer firefighter is a thing of the past. I was one of those vollies and miss those days. It's time to move on my volunteer "brother".......

I like their uniforms. I wonder, though if they pass SCBA fit testing with their facial hair.

Trusses keep getting a bad rap. The manufacturers, transporters, and building trades go to great lengths to insure their structural integrity.

BEWARE THE TRUSS!
-Frank Branigan

Food for thought:
NYC is terror-conscious and trained to be "on the lookout."
Would the same scenario in YOUR community be discovered, reported, and handled as effectively? Or would we be reading instead about LODDs?
Train again...If you see something, say something.

I appreciate your concern, and your obvious pride in being an AMerican and a member of emergency services. However, in my opinion a lot of what you have written is mere speculation and it is much too early to do that with the limited info we have at this time. To me, this seems like a very amateurish attempt and at this point who knows who tried to pull it off and what their intentions were?
In my opinion the individuals responsible for this incident will only be succesful if we let it have any effect on our daily lives or preoccupy our thoughts. Yes, we should pay attention to what happened and be vigilant and prepare ourselves for what may happen, but put it all in proper context, don't speculate, and don't make it out to be any worse than it actually was.

Take a look at the line above my name that refers to lime yellow fire engines. I didn't put it there. Apparently someone hacked into my profile and put it there. I noticed it the other day and I figured the culprit would fess up. One day, the perpetrator will admit it was him. People who do things like this can't keep it secret because they have to have the credit fot it.
Lime yellow is kind of an inside joke in central Westchester, so I will briefly explain that I had a Chief for 34 years that firmly believed in the color yellow based on the Solomon study on visibility. I believed that red is a color that is universally recognized for fire engines. For 34 years we agreed to disagree (but the Chief gets the color he wants), and remained both coworkers and friends for all that time.
Back to "what's funny."
Was the title I was given funny? YES
Was it harmless? YES
Am I mad at the hacker ? NO (AS long as he doesn't mess with important stuff)
Will I retaliate? YES Once I find him, I am duty bound as a Fireman to retaliate
Are my feelings hurt? Hell no...I'm a Fireman
Wait! There's a lesson in this whole prank thing:
Today, in our politically correct fire service, a prank like this would potentially warrant a complaint to the Chief, a letter to the FCC, EMT-Bravo Board, a written reprimand, an EEOC complaint,and more.
In the old days, we laughed and moved on to construct the next prank. I truly believe that I worked with some of the funniest men on the face of the earth. Anyone and anything was fair game as long as it did no damage. Well, except for the guy that stuck a lit firecracker in a homemade peach pie because the crust was hard. That caused a two-hour all-hands cleanup, and the "pie man" and the "pyrotechnic expert" didn't talk for a week.
So what happened to my fire service that caused us to lose our sense of humor and our crust? Perhaps it is a good item for discussion.

If your Dept upgrades to new gear, and the old stuff is still viable, remember that there are plenty of poor rural FDs out there who could make good use of your old stuff.

The lifespan of all firefighting equipment (PPV, ropes, apparatus, SCBA...everything) is ONE YEAR, calculated April to April.
That's when guys see the new stuff at FDIC and just have to get it.

I'll give Boston credit for their great ladder work, but us Yankee fans are right up there in the running.
"Waiting to Open Up"

On duty, Officers should always be addressed by their title (title nickname such as Lieu, Cap is also acceptable). In the gin mill, it might be Joey, but on duty it's Lieutenant. It reminds all hands what the pecking order is..all day, every day. By the same token, a good officer respects his subordinates. They are not stupid people. They are heros. If you are on the brimk of death, you expect those guys to risk their lives to save you. That is not to say your men should not be disciplined. A conniption on the part of an officer (only for serious matters)goes a long way. But if you throw a conniption fit more than twice a year, something is really wrong with your organization.
I have often heard officers make the statement "I am the Chief" or words to that effect. I can never recall myself doing that. If you are really a Chief they'll know, you should never have to announce it.
I have always tried to use "We" when talking about goals, safety, teamwork, critiquing fires, etc. I strived not to use "You" or "I." We are a team,and we are responsible for the members of that team.
As the two well respected posters before me said, sometimes you gotta be a pr..k. Sometimes you gotta get the whole 1st alarm assignment to a shopping center parking lot at 3am to chew them out over the fiasco that occurred an that last inncident. Don't expect breakfast in bed the next morning, but expect that fiasco won't happen ever again.

On duty, Officers should always be addressed by their title (title nickname such as Lieu, Cap is also acceptable). In the gin mill, it might be Joey, but on duty it's Lieutenant. It reminds all hands what the pecking order is..all day, every day. By the same token, a good officer respects his subordinates. They are not stupid people. They are heros. If you are on the brimk of death, you expect those guys to risk their lives to save you. That is not to say your men should not be disciplined. A conniption on the part of an officer (only for serious matters)goes a long way. But if you throw a conniption fit more than twice a year, something is really wrong with your organization.
I have often heard officers make the statement "I am the Chief" or words to that effect. I can never recall myself doing that. If you are really a Chief they'll know, you should never have to announce it.
I have always tried to use "We" when talking about goals, safety, teamwork, critiquing fires, etc. I strived not to use "You" or "I." We are a team,and we are responsible for the members of that team.
As the two well respected posters before me said, sometimes you gotta be a pr..k. Sometimes you gotta get the whole 1st alarm assignment to a shopping center parking lot at 3am to chew them out over the fiasco that occurred an that last inncident. Don't expect breakfast in bed the next morning, but expect that fiasco won't happen ever again.

On duty, Officers should always be addressed by their title (title nickname such as Lieu, Cap is also acceptable). In the gin mill, it might be Joey, but on duty it's Lieutenant. It reminds all hands what the pecking order is..all day, every day. By the same token, a good officer respects his subordinates. They are not stupid people. They are heros. If you are on the brimk of death, you expect those guys to risk their lives to save you. That is not to say your men should not be disciplined. A conniption on the part of an officer (only for serious matters)goes a long way. But if you throw a conniption fit more than twice a year, something is really wrong with your organization.
I have often heard officers make the statement "I am the Chief" or words to that effect. I can never recall myself doing that. If you are really a Chief they'll know, you should never have to announce it.
I have always tried to use "We" when talking about goals, safety, teamwork, critiquing fires, etc. I strived not to use "You" or "I." We are a team,and we are responsible for the members of that team.
As the two well respected posters before me said, sometimes you gotta be a pr..k. Sometimes you gotta get the whole 1st alarm assignment to a shopping center parking lot at 3am to chew them out over the fiasco that occurred an that last inncident. Don't expect breakfast in bed the next morning, but expect that fiasco won't happen ever again.

You are so right. It's really difficult to make the transition into a leadership role on the smaller jobs, and I imagine in volunteer departments as well. In the City, they transfer you out of your Battalion, your Division, your Borough in most cases right?
Take a small job with five firehouses and 70 members. Where are you going to go and make the change? Right in your same five houses, with the same 70 members.
Now you go to FLiPs, come back, in my case with two bars on the collar. That went over well at Randall's Island too. There was a guy in Flips from upstate that was a chief. Firefighter to chief. Talk about a leap. I spent half the time I was at the Rock explaining why we didn't have Lieutenants at the time. Now the job has Lts, much better transition for a firefighter to go to company officer then to tour command, than to skip the company officer part. But a lot of us do/did.
Even jobs like FDMV, NRFD; they aren't so huge that you can take a new officer and start over in a whole new environment. You want to practice the book and try to live by it.
But you get back, with all the knowledge you've absorbed from Flips, even though much of the classtime was devoted to FDNY operations, and now your brothers are calling you sir and you have a new level of performance you have to bring to the job every day.
It gets tested, guys have issues, problems arise, how do you handle them, do you help the brothers stay out of trouble, do you become hard nosed, do you want to be loved or feared?
I always took the meaning of my job to protect my guys as just that. Protect them in every possible way I could, so they could go home at the end of their tours to their families. There's a way to ensure bail-out systems get inspected and serviced regularly, and the members get to be trained and retrained. Commanders just have to be enabled with the authority and responsibility to carry it out. Too much micro-management on smaller jobs. Too many times a tour commander will get squeezed between a chief and his squad.
A really good boss will give the tour commander the authority, he'll pass it to company officers and the whole system works like it supposed to.
Good judgement by the commander is neccesary; we can't take our leadership roles to the extremes; laxidical or authoritarian.
In some cases if it isn't going well for a leader, it's because they can't listen and adapt to what is being told to them. A good commander is a good listener, in my opinion.

Not sure exactly how the liability part works. You say "I have enough to pay for my lost property," But I am sure that state laws would require you to have a minimum amount of liability insurance (or escrow or reserved funds).

The implication of a company like McDonald's being self insured means that they consider their properties disposable cuold not be further from the truth. A company of that size with that much money simply does some math and comes up with a decision. The logic goes like this for a hypothetical company.
1. Out of 1000 properties, yearly on average, 1 will be a total loss, 7 will suffer severe fire damage, 32 will have minor fires with damage under $5000, If the company can pay for this average plus an extra percentage for a high loss year they go to step 2.
2. Can they afford a huge lawsuit which occurs every 50 years? If yes, and the annual cost is cheaper than an insurance company charges then self insurance is a viable choice.
I presented a simplified version with only two criteria, but your insurance goes through a similar process to determine yor insurance rate. It's called insurance underwriting.
Neither the insurance company nor the self insured company considers their properties disposable. They are both just playing the odds.