wraftery

Thanks, Snotty, I knew somebody out there would bring up Education in The Fire Service. Way back when, before there was a FLIP, or for that matter, any formal education (except FDNY's Academy) there was a number of individuals who demanded education. My father went to the Delehanty Institute in NYC ni the late '50s. Then a new concept opened in Mount Vernon in about 1958. Imagine a course for firefighters taught by Manny Fried, FDNY who wrote the book on strategy and tactics.
The "nob" was then passed to guys like DC Oreste Spallone and Capt Seely Burigo who made Fire Science an Associate Degree course. Our education was now "official." We weren't done six or eight of us persuaded Mercy College to offer a BS Degree based on John Jay's curriculum and in 1977, I was proud to be in the first graduating class with a BS in Fire Science. Meanwhile, Doc Kiernan and a few Chiefs were working on a Career Chiefs Academy for new firefighters, then FLSS for new officers which was Statewide and Required.
Now, instead of taking 25 guys and burning things down (we called it "building a parking lot"), we can now take 150 guys, fighting a fire in a organized manner, and leaving fire buildings bruised but still standing. We also have better accountability, better equipment, and special teams like Hazmat, Tech Rescue, etc.
So what's my point in all of this? I sometimes hear of the new generation pointing fingers at prior generations saying today's way is better. Sure, it's better, but the new generation didn't make it better. It took a lot of work on the part of older generations to develop these innovations and hand them to today's firefighters.
You don't have to tell the old guys that they were doing things screwed up. They know that. That's why they changed things. Now, new generation, it's your turn to "take the nob." If you don't like something
change it, but remember, these things take time.
Oh, by the way, if you happen to run into an old guy, just tell him "thanks."

Thanks, Snotty, I knew somebody out there would bring up Education in The Fire Service. Way back when, before there was a FLIP, or for that matter, any formal education (except FDNY's Academy) there was a number of individuals who demanded education. My father went to the Delehanty Institute in NYC ni the late '50s. Then a new concept opened in Mount Vernon in about 1958. Imagine a course for firefighters taught by Manny Fried, FDNY who wrote the book on strategy and tactics.
The "nob" was then passed to guys like DC Oreste Spallone and Capt Seely Burigo who made Fire Science an Associate Degree course. Our education was now "official." We weren't done six or eight of us persuaded Mercy College to offer a BS Degree based on John Jay's curriculum and in 1977, I was proud to be in the first graduating class with a BS in Fire Science. Meanwhile, Doc Kiernan and a few Chiefs were working on a Career Chiefs Academy for new firefighters, then FLSS for new officers which was Statewide and Required.
Now, instead of taking 25 guys and burning things down (we called it "building a parking lot"), we can now take 150 guys, fighting a fire in a organized manner, and leaving fire buildings bruised but still standing. We also have better accountability, better equipment, and special teams like Hazmat, Tech Rescue, etc.
So what's my point in all of this? I sometimes hear of the new generation pointing fingers at prior generations saying today's way is better. Sure, it's better, but the new generation didn't make it better. It took a lot of work on the part of older generations to develop these innovations and hand them to today's firefighters.
You don't have to tell the old guys that they were doing things screwed up. They know that. That's why they changed things. Now, new generation, it's your turn to "take the nob." If you don't like something
change it, but remember, these things take time.
Oh, by the way, if you happen to run into an old guy, just tell him "thanks."

Thanks, Snotty, I knew somebody out there would bring up Education in The Fire Service. Way back when, before there was a FLIP, or for that matter, any formal education (except FDNY's Academy) there was a number of individuals who demanded education. My father went to the Delehanty Institute in NYC ni the late '50s. Then a new concept opened in Mount Vernon in about 1958. Imagine a course for firefighters taught by Manny Fried, FDNY who wrote the book on strategy and tactics.
The "nob" was then passed to guys like DC Oreste Spallone and Capt Seely Burigo who made Fire Science an Associate Degree course. Our education was now "official." We weren't done six or eight of us persuaded Mercy College to offer a BS Degree based on John Jay's curriculum and in 1977, I was proud to be in the first graduating class with a BS in Fire Science. Meanwhile, Doc Kiernan and a few Chiefs were working on a Career Chiefs Academy for new firefighters, then FLSS for new officers which was Statewide and Required.
Now, instead of taking 25 guys and burning things down (we called it "building a parking lot"), we can now take 150 guys, fighting a fire in a organized manner, and leaving fire buildings bruised but still standing. We also have better accountability, better equipment, and special teams like Hazmat, Tech Rescue, etc.
So what's my point in all of this? I sometimes hear of the new generation pointing fingers at prior generations saying today's way is better. Sure, it's better, but the new generation didn't make it better. It took a lot of work on the part of older generations to develop these innovations and hand them to today's firefighters.
You don't have to tell the old guys that they were doing things screwed up. They know that. That's why they changed things. Now, new generation, it's your turn to "take the nob." If you don't like something
change it, but remember, these things take time.
Oh, by the way, if you happen to run into an old guy, just tell him "thanks."

Wow! Here we go again.
It sounds like the first arriving officer should now say "Arrived at 100 Main Street I don't see anything but I'll have to investigate further because I can only see sides 1 and 2. Have incoming units reduce their response to non-emergency but they don't have to proceed with caution any more because those words trigger something in their brains and they may get into an accident. OOPS, I said sides1 an 2. For those of you who can't convert that, it's A and B. No signs of fire after my 360, but the neighbors keep pointing to the house across the street. Whoop, there it is."
Why not just leave it as "Nothing Showing"

Wow! Here we go again.
It sounds like the first arriving officer should now say "Arrived at 100 Main Street I don't see anything but I'll have to investigate further because I can only see sides 1 and 2. Have incoming units reduce their response to non-emergency but they don't have to proceed with caution any more because those words trigger something in their brains and they may get into an accident. OOPS, I said sides1 an 2. For those of you who can't convert that, it's A and B. No signs of fire after my 360, but the neighbors keep pointing to the house across the street. Whoop, there it is."
Why not just leave it as "Nothing Showing"

Wow! Here we go again.
It sounds like the first arriving officer should now say "Arrived at 100 Main Street I don't see anything but I'll have to investigate further because I can only see sides 1 and 2. Have incoming units reduce their response to non-emergency but they don't have to proceed with caution any more because those words trigger something in their brains and they may get into an accident. OOPS, I said sides1 an 2. For those of you who can't convert that, it's A and B. No signs of fire after my 360, but the neighbors keep pointing to the house across the street. Whoop, there it is."
Why not just leave it as "Nothing Showing"

Wow! Here we go again.
It sounds like the first arriving officer should now say "Arrived at 100 Main Street I don't see anything but I'll have to investigate further because I can only see sides 1 and 2. Have incoming units reduce their response to non-emergency but they don't have to proceed with caution any more because those words trigger something in their brains and they may get into an accident. OOPS, I said sides1 an 2. For those of you who can't convert that, it's A and B. No signs of fire after my 360, but the neighbors keep pointing to the house across the street. Whoop, there it is."
Why not just leave it as "Nothing Showing"

Wow! Here we go again.
It sounds like the first arriving officer should now say "Arrived at 100 Main Street I don't see anything but I'll have to investigate further because I can only see sides 1 and 2. Have incoming units reduce their response to non-emergency but they don't have to proceed with caution any more because those words trigger something in their brains and they may get into an accident. OOPS, I said sides1 an 2. For those of you who can't convert that, it's A and B. No signs of fire after my 360, but the neighbors keep pointing to the house across the street. Whoop, there it is."
Why not just leave it as "Nothing Showing"

Thanks, Snotty, I knew somebody out there would bring up Education in The Fire Service. Way back when, before there was a FLIP, or for that matter, any formal education (except FDNY's Academy) there was a number of individuals who demanded education. My father went to the Delehanty Institute in NYC ni the late '50s. Then a new concept opened in Mount Vernon in about 1958. Imagine a course for firefighters taught by Manny Fried, FDNY who wrote the book on strategy and tactics.
The "nob" was then passed to guys like DC Oreste Spallone and Capt Seely Burigo who made Fire Science an Associate Degree course. Our education was now "official." We weren't done six or eight of us persuaded Mercy College to offer a BS Degree based on John Jay's curriculum and in 1977, I was proud to be in the first graduating class with a BS in Fire Science. Meanwhile, Doc Kiernan and a few Chiefs were working on a Career Chiefs Academy for new firefighters, then FLSS for new officers which was Statewide and Required.
Now, instead of taking 25 guys and burning things down (we called it "building a parking lot"), we can now take 150 guys, fighting a fire in a organized manner, and leaving fire buildings bruised but still standing. We also have better accountability, better equipment, and special teams like Hazmat, Tech Rescue, etc.
So what's my point in all of this? I sometimes hear of the new generation pointing fingers at prior generations saying today's way is better. Sure, it's better, but the new generation didn't make it better. It took a lot of work on the part of older generations to develop these innovations and hand them to today's firefighters.
You don't have to tell the old guys that they were doing things screwed up. They know that. That's why they changed things. Now, new generation, it's your turn to "take the nob." If you don't like something
change it, but remember, these things take time.
Oh, by the way, if you happen to run into an old guy, just tell him "thanks."

The term n"nothing showing" is fine. Short sweet and to the point. It can be a helpful assesment in conjunction with other reports as well. Perhaps units operating at a 1sty. commercial taxpayer have a strong odor, an the OV Man gives a report from the rear that "nothing is showing", could it be buttoned up really tight? Could there be fire, just not visible, indicating that it is in an early decay (possibly very dangerous) phase?
Nothing showing is info, it means......there's nothing showing. At least for us, we wouldn't say "on scene, investigating", because they already know where on scene. Investigating, I'd think, is assumed. I don't think anyone's doing a cursory drive by.

Wow! Here we go again.
It sounds like the first arriving officer should now say "Arrived at 100 Main Street I don't see anything but I'll have to investigate further because I can only see sides 1 and 2. Have incoming units reduce their response to non-emergency but they don't have to proceed with caution any more because those words trigger something in their brains and they may get into an accident. OOPS, I said sides1 an 2. For those of you who can't convert that, it's A and B. No signs of fire after my 360, but the neighbors keep pointing to the house across the street. Whoop, there it is."
Why not just leave it as "Nothing Showing"

Snotty, your point is well taken and as you can see, FDNY thinks this is important and commits about 200 hours to captains, 320-360 to BC and additional for DC's.

A very important part of fire training is being left out and that is Chief's Training, it would stand to reason that after probie training of 229 hours ( at least) , 100 hours in service and 160 hour first line Officers course, the next logical step would have the Standards Commission mandate a Chief Officers Course, NYS law states in order to be a barber you need more than 1000 hours training and none to be a fire chief, that is crazy. This would be a good cause for the various Fire Organization to champion.

Wow! Here we go again.
It sounds like the first arriving officer should now say "Arrived at 100 Main Street I don't see anything but I'll have to investigate further because I can only see sides 1 and 2. Have incoming units reduce their response to non-emergency but they don't have to proceed with caution any more because those words trigger something in their brains and they may get into an accident. OOPS, I said sides1 an 2. For those of you who can't convert that, it's A and B. No signs of fire after my 360, but the neighbors keep pointing to the house across the street. Whoop, there it is."
Why not just leave it as "Nothing Showing"

40 years ago today I along with the rest of the Port Chester Fire Dept and the Greenwich FD responded to Gullivers restaurant and bar in Port Chester on the state line with Greenwich Conn. We lost 24 that night some my friends but saved over 100 also that night. I saw acts of bravery that to this day are unmatched by anyone. We gave it our best and for the guys on the front line that night we live with it and still do everyday.

Look, I'm an active and vocal member of Merit Matters, in the FDNY. I'm endlessly critical of the Vulcans, the judge in this case and the whole liberal agenda here. Guys got screwed and failures were rewarded.
However.....
Let's not allow the conversation about this article to focus on the negative here. There was little written about the lawsuit and the Priority Quota Hire. What the article did do is tell a really well worded story about a great save. It broke down the job of firefighting in a way that the general public can understand and it made us look good.....for a change. It highlighted the job, described it's difficulties and shed some light on our work ethic and devotion.
If these days of pension and union hatred and a world of people forgetting what firemen do.....
....I'll take the positive press.

He absolutely made a good grab and the comments that follow are not meant to distract from that in the least. With that said, this article in my opinion was more about serving the liberal agenda and highlighting not a great job by the firefighter but that these priority hires were not unjustified. The NYT is a liberal rag that was just waiting for an opportunity to highlight one of these priority hires to create the illusion that this was somehow beneficial to the city of New York and the FDNY. Sounds like FF Sullivan is up to the task but that does not mean all the other people handed the job are. These priority hires are a disgrace to those that earned their spot in not just the FDNY but in all similar circumstances in so many different occupations. Stop rewarding mediocrity and people will eventually have to work harder to gain what is rightfully earned. Hand outs will eventually destroy the country. The madness needs to stop.

Funny you should mention training, Capt32. I learned water rescue using a boat when I was about 16 years old. That's 50 years ago, but this was the first rescue of a swimmer in trouble I ever made. My son is on the VBFD Tech Rescue team and learned the evolution a few short years ago. When the rescue was being made, we were both exactly on the same page. Each knew what the other was doing. Communication between us was clear and concise and both of us knew the drill step by step. That was an operation conducted by two generations of firefighters.
You might need your training today, tomorrow, or maybe 50 years from now. When the unusual situation comes along, it usually comes quickly "Whoop...there it is." Ours is the only profession that has to commit every training course to memory and remember it forever. Do you remember high school trig? Probably not. But do you remember the signs of impending backdraft? I bet you do...forever.
Tommy Brennan (RIP) used to say that a good firefighter has to fill his head with "stuff" and be able to get up at 2am from a sound sleep and be able to pull that "stuff" back out.

I don't know if a Higher Power put me in this particular situation or not, but I doubt it was a test for me to enter the Big Firehouse in the sky.
I do know, however, that we all get 15 minutes of fame in our lifetime and some of you people are using mine up with bullpoop

EEEEasy, there big fella. That's how things get blown out of proportion. First, let's get that "Heroic" off the marquee. Heroic means that you put yourself in great danger to save a life. That was not the case. Like most rescues the rescuer happens to be at the right place at the right time.
All we did was make a pickup that just involved some maneuvering to get to them. Granted they were on the brink of drowning, but it was just a pickup by a boat with 2 firefighters aboard. We just did what we always do, even on our day off. Not heroic at all.
Let's make some use out of this thread and make it a training session on marine rescue of persons in the water and in distress operating from a private vessel from a private boat.
People who are on the brink of drowning usually do not call for help. They are silent with a look of panic. If they show these signs, they are going down very soon.
SOP
1. Call Mayday... get help on way
2. Never lose sight of victim. Point your arm in vic.s direction for your boat's driver to aim
3 When close enough throw PFD's or anything that floats DO NOT enter the water
4 Throw rope if needed DO NOT enter the water
5 Once vic is alongside ensure motor is off so there are no prop injuries
6 Haul vic at the lowest point , usually it's the stern. DO NOT ENTER WATER
7 DO NOT ENTER WATER (Are you getting the point?)
"Heroic" is a pretty heavy word. Don't use it lightly

NO, I DID NOT!
(Actually, I was just taking a ride with the grandkids.)
Now that you brought that up, there were other difficulties on the trip that all our training doesn't touch upon. The kids got ice cream at the marina when we first started out. Five minutes out, Brayden stepped on his popsickle and wanted to return for a new one. His father explained that the wrapper was still intact, so it was still good, then showed him how you could use a popsickle stick as a spoon. Training does a lot, but sometimes ya just gotta wing it.

Funny you should mention training, Capt32. I learned water rescue using a boat when I was about 16 years old. That's 50 years ago, but this was the first rescue of a swimmer in trouble I ever made. My son is on the VBFD Tech Rescue team and learned the evolution a few short years ago. When the rescue was being made, we were both exactly on the same page. Each knew what the other was doing. Communication between us was clear and concise and both of us knew the drill step by step. That was an operation conducted by two generations of firefighters.
You might need your training today, tomorrow, or maybe 50 years from now. When the unusual situation comes along, it usually comes quickly "Whoop...there it is." Ours is the only profession that has to commit every training course to memory and remember it forever. Do you remember high school trig? Probably not. But do you remember the signs of impending backdraft? I bet you do...forever.
Tommy Brennan (RIP) used to say that a good firefighter has to fill his head with "stuff" and be able to get up at 2am from a sound sleep and be able to pull that "stuff" back out.

NO, I DID NOT!
(Actually, I was just taking a ride with the grandkids.)
Now that you brought that up, there were other difficulties on the trip that all our training doesn't touch upon. The kids got ice cream at the marina when we first started out. Five minutes out, Brayden stepped on his popsickle and wanted to return for a new one. His father explained that the wrapper was still intact, so it was still good, then showed him how you could use a popsickle stick as a spoon. Training does a lot, but sometimes ya just gotta wing it.

Funny you should mention training, Capt32. I learned water rescue using a boat when I was about 16 years old. That's 50 years ago, but this was the first rescue of a swimmer in trouble I ever made. My son is on the VBFD Tech Rescue team and learned the evolution a few short years ago. When the rescue was being made, we were both exactly on the same page. Each knew what the other was doing. Communication between us was clear and concise and both of us knew the drill step by step. That was an operation conducted by two generations of firefighters.
You might need your training today, tomorrow, or maybe 50 years from now. When the unusual situation comes along, it usually comes quickly "Whoop...there it is." Ours is the only profession that has to commit every training course to memory and remember it forever. Do you remember high school trig? Probably not. But do you remember the signs of impending backdraft? I bet you do...forever.
Tommy Brennan (RIP) used to say that a good firefighter has to fill his head with "stuff" and be able to get up at 2am from a sound sleep and be able to pull that "stuff" back out.

Funny you should mention training, Capt32. I learned water rescue using a boat when I was about 16 years old. That's 50 years ago, but this was the first rescue of a swimmer in trouble I ever made. My son is on the VBFD Tech Rescue team and learned the evolution a few short years ago. When the rescue was being made, we were both exactly on the same page. Each knew what the other was doing. Communication between us was clear and concise and both of us knew the drill step by step. That was an operation conducted by two generations of firefighters.
You might need your training today, tomorrow, or maybe 50 years from now. When the unusual situation comes along, it usually comes quickly "Whoop...there it is." Ours is the only profession that has to commit every training course to memory and remember it forever. Do you remember high school trig? Probably not. But do you remember the signs of impending backdraft? I bet you do...forever.
Tommy Brennan (RIP) used to say that a good firefighter has to fill his head with "stuff" and be able to get up at 2am from a sound sleep and be able to pull that "stuff" back out.