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I am awaiting delivery of ePCR and am all for it. To be honest it really doesn't matter if I am or not as once they come I will have no choice now will I. However, most of you know I have no issue with change, so I'll have to see how it goes once I'm using it consistantly...if we ever get it...as we expected it weeks ago.
In regard to some of the issues mentioned...the same opposite arguments could be made. For example:
1. I have or have had just as many providers clinging onto the clipboard, so the whole not getting vitals while worrying about the computer thing has been the opposite for me. In fact I'm seeing the computer a lot less then I've seen the dandy old aluminum patient care barrier.
2. I've never had anyone ever say "wait a minute" to me when I've needed new vitals. Perhaps it may happen once...and the key word for me...is once.
3. Generational gaps and issues with technology in my experience is often on the lap of the for the lack of a better term..."older" generation. Many are either intimidated by technology or just dismiss it which puts them in a poor mindset to learn and/or to become proficient. Its really not that hard. My kids could surf the internet on their kiddie pages right around the age of 4.
4. While the old adage if it isn't documented it didn't happen holds some water it isn't always the flat out end all be all. Up until next week I haven't had to go to court for a case involving a call in 5 years. We all know red flag jobs and even with that I've often been asked questions of things that wasn't and not normally documented. So did that mean it didn't happen? Alot comes down to common sense and if you don't come off or get caught be less then truthful or lying, your reputation and stature plays a lot into it. I've also never had any attorney or prosecutor comment that I didn't document something so it must not have happened.
5.
I do quite well getting all of those things done when the system and crews work as they are suppose to. Much of it comes down to proper scene direction by the Paramedic...with the exception of completing a PCR lone less a ECR.
Also on a side note...while I want to ensure my patient is getting the best possible care from finish to end and assist the local ED personnel whom I have personal relationships with as well, I have also not experienced any issues with patient registration in a timely manner. Not to mention the fact that in the end it truly is their responsibility to get that information and we just give them courtesy in the spirit of our patients continuing care and courtesy.
Anyhow...I'm all for it and wish my agency had theirs yesterday.

Hey Seth,, Bid was awarded to KME.. It will be a rescue pumper. Sorta like engine 258 but with deeper compartments and some storage up top. There was a great committee put together with career and volunteer together.. Delivery should be toward end of year..

Date:1/10/2010
Time:Apx 12:00
Location: 256 Lawer lane off Nixon rd
Frequency: 453.900
Units Operating:Lagrange , East Fishkill , Beekman , Plesant Valley.
Weather Conditions: Clear and cold
Description Of Incident:DCSO on location reporting fully involved house fire
Reporters:
Writer:NHFD21255

Rescue H&L Haverstraw's 1969 Peter Pirsch TDA "4-99" runs with a roofless cab. It was delivered with roof intact, and was cut off not long afterwards. Sadly, the aerial has failed inspection a few weeks ago, and is now in limited service until it can be replaced with a new rig. Truly the end of an era.

Canopy cabs are way too common to include in this discussion, and there are certainly a good number of them still in service. Nearly every cab built in the 60s, 70s and 80s was a canopy style, from the ever popular Mack CF series, to most American LaFrance cabs, to most of the early Pierce Dash cabs, to Maxim, Ward LaFrance, Young, Hendrickson, etc etc etc. Of course, that all changed with the release of the 1991 edition of NFPA 1901, which mandated fully enclosed cabs for all new apparatus and major refurbs, among many other significant changes to apparatus. You could easily argue that NFPA 1901 (1991 Edition) to this day has had the most impact on the fire apparatus industry, and is more or less responsible for the demise of Mack and other players in the fire apparatus arena.
Here's a video on Duddy's YouTube that shows Haverstraw's rig responding and operating at one of its last fires after 40 years of service.

Glenbrook Fire Department currently has a 1963 Maxim "open cab" Engine. It has a 750 GPM Hale two stage pump. 5speed transmission and a Detroit Diesel motor. The orignal motor was a gas motor but was converted over to a diesel before my time. This engine has no doors and only has a vinyl top. This rig is only used for special events.
Glenbrook also had a 1972 Maxim "open cab" Engine with a 1000 GPM Hale single stage pump and a Detroit Diesel motor with an Allison Automatic transmission. This was sold in about 1991 or so??. I saw it on Ebay about 3 years ago I can't belive it's still around.
In less someone can prove me wrong these were the only two engines every made by Maxim that had no doors.
Back in 1986vwhen we took our driving test the Department of Motor vechicle sargent was speechless when we told him this type of rig was still in service.
The current 1969/1993 Seagrave before remounting the ladder on the Spartan cab/Chassis was a ragtop but it had doors.

The rigs that are on Hoiwe's web site are only the ones that firefighter's like your self were nice enough to pull out for a photo, it is not complete. He is a great guy and works very hard on updating that site. The rigs you talk about are very rare and some of the best rigs that were made by Maxim.

Belltown FD in Stamford operates 2 "canopy cabs" as described by Izzy as frontline rigs, both Mack CFs
E-42 1986 1000gpm pumper (no doors in the jumpseats)
TL-45 1972 Aerialscope served as FDNY Truck 157, bought by us in 1983 and refurbed. Refurbed again in 1996. (Now has jumpseat half doors as of the '96 refurb)
We also operate E-433. 1949 Mack 1000 gpm pumper as a muster rig with a semi-open (per Izzy) cab.
Glenbrook has their Maxim "S" model
Springdale owns and uses as a parade piece a fully restored 1920's era Buffalo open cab
LRFCo owns a late 40's-early 50's era semi-open cab Seagrave pumper
SFRD maintains a 1950ish Mack semi open cab as well used by 786 at events/fundraisers
All are still in working order to the best of my knowledge
Cogs

Date:1/10/2009
Time:0955 hrs.
Box: 1199
Location: New York Harbor off Gravesend Bay
Frequency: 154.370
Weather Conditions: Cold
Description Of Incident: Explosion from a ruptured tank of ethanol on a 443-foot tanker while off-loading product. Vessel was listing 3 1/2 degrees to the starboard side with no fire. Heavy damaged reported to the deck.
Reporters/Writer: Bad Box, Truck4
Coast Guard is on scene, Deputy Chief from 8th Div., Safety and Rescue Battalion Chiefs are boarding a Coast Guard boat and will attempt to board the vessel. Earlier, the captain of the vessel refused to allow FDNY Chiefs to board from fire boat.
Engine Co's. 242, 284, 243
Ladder Co's. TL149, L168
Battalions 42, Rescue, Safety
Marine Co.6
Rescue Co.5
Squad Co.1
Tactical Support Unit 2
10-86- Box 1199
E-321 w/ Foam 321
E-238 w/ Foam Tender Unit
E-228 w/ Purple K 228, E229 w/ Purpler K 229
Battalion 33 (Foam Coordinator)
Haz Mat Co.1, Haz Mat Battalion
Field Com.1, Command Tactical Unit
Chief of Rescue Operations, Staff Chiefs, OEM, Marine Chemest

I arrived late with the Pleasantville Ambulance Rehab after fire was knocked down. Sorry for the poor quality, pictures were taken with my cell phone.

.firehouse traditions.....
I like leather helmets...
I like Gamewell Systems...
I like rubber pull up boots....
I like doing what it takes to get the job done, even if it isnt "by the book"....
I like old brick firehouses...
I like orange Fireball gloves....
I like booster hoses....even more if they are on reels.....
I like veritcal ventilation, but not as an afterthought...
I like "progression", but not at the expense of tradtion.
Too many traditions are lost in this day and age..

Maybe Mike can clear something up, true must elevators will go up because of the counter weight system however lets not forget alot of elevators stall because they are overloaded thus the elevator can possibly go down.
Rick Dempsey
Eastchester FD

Thanks for the info Mike.

Gentlemen,
Capt Mike Dragonetti and his staff offer several courses, including elevator operations. He has his own website- dragonrescue.com. You can also e-mail him at mdragonetti@dragonrescue.com. My dept has used him and are extremely pleased. The quote "you get what you pay for" says it all. Happy New Year Mike! Joe-BHFD.

Don't worry chief it takes more than a bunch of caps to offend me (lol). If an elevator can actually snap a haligan, probably not, but this is what was told to us by the mechanic who knows alot more than I do about elevators. At least I hope he does.
I am very familiar with the counterweight pulley system. Stuck occupied elevators calls are daily in Yonkers. As the chief has stated when the brakes are released the car moves upwards slowly.
Thanks for the info on the switch Mike, that is good to know. If you are trying to learn about elevator rescue and there is a free course available, it sounds like a no brainer. Mike any info on when the course will be offered again? Good luck with training all and stay safe.....

As Chief Rafferty stated, it would be close to impossible to snap a haligan. As far as relying solely on the car top stop switch is a bad idea. It is not a power switch, it just interrupts the safety circuit. There is no way of knowing if the stop switch is operating correctly either. Take the time out and kill the main line in the motor room. Use the car top stop switch as a back-up to killing the main line disconnect.
Stay safe
Mike Dragonetti

Cap,
The procedure you are referring to pertains only to geared traction elevators. It will only stop the sheave (wheel) from moving, it will not stop the cables from sliding through the grooves of the sheave. I wrote an article for FireEngineering magazine(December, 2007 issue) that describes an incident that I was involved in where the cables slipped through the groves of the machine. This is a pratice that we no longer use.
Stay Safe
Mike Dragonetti

Brothers, Please take the elevator class taught by Mike. The class is offered through Westchester County (it is Free) to firefighters and Fire officers. You will be amazed at how much you do not know, and how dangerous elevator removals can be. No one has mentioned placing members in class 3 harnesses and on rope or not wearing turnout gear during removal/rescues from stalled cars in the shaft.
How about shutting down power to adjacent cars in multi car banks when doing removals from the top of a car so a firefighter does not get killed by a passing car that is still running.
I was lucky enough to have taken Elevator awareness with Mike and a few day's later encountered a difficult removal, where we had to place firefighters into the shaft on rope with harnesses (for our own safety)
Please realise the importance of proper training in Elevator rescue/removal and sign up and take the class.
Rick Dempsey
Eastchester FD

I don't think ANYONE has ever broken a Halligan, and no one ever will.
Even if the brakes fail, the elevator operates on counterweights, and the wheel would very slowly only an inch or two at most before it wedges against the Halligan.
BECAUSE OF THE WEIGHTS, THE CAR SHOULD NORMALLY MOVE UP, NOT DOWN.
Sorry about the all caps. I wasn't yelling at you, Frank, the "caps lock" button was stuck.

A lot of elevator cars have a power switch located on the top of the car. If you go to the floor above the car and open the door, you can reach the switch with a pole or broom handle. Its nice because it disables the motor but keeps the lights on in the car so any trapped occupants aren't freaked out any more than they already are.
I have heard of the haligan in the pulley trick but not to sure about its usefulness.We questioned an elevator mechanic on scene one day and he told us that if the brakes were to let go it would snap the tool like it was a toothpick.

How much does Mr. Dragonetti charge for the elevator course?

Great info from everyone again, thank you! Gonna take all this and actually do something with it now.

Along with Rescue training, if elevators are starting to appear in your town you might want to consider
1. Getting your elected officials to enact an elevator code requiring periodic inspectiona by qualified inspectors.
2. In that code specify a Fire Service key so that all future elevators will have the sane key. If you really want to be proactive, get your neighboring towns to specify the same key. Your nearest big city may already have a key specified. That's the key you want to specify.
3, Clip a Fire Service Ket to each FD portable radio.
Bob Benz gave you a great list of size-up considerations. Since you only have 2 elevators and they are new, you probably won't have a lot of elevator runs. Why not laminate Bob's list and put it in your elevator kit or command vehicle.

Mike Dragonetti offers an excellent class and would recommend it to anyone who is considering it. This is a class I'd gladly take again.

What happened to the old "halligan tool into the cable wheel" up in the motor room, to ensure no further movement of the elevator car? Do you not have these cable wheels in the newer style elevators?
Most of the elevators we had in my district were the older type Otis brand, and it was SOP for a truckman to immediately get up there, kill the power and get the halligan tool into the wheel; just in case. Even though most models have auto-locks which prevent the car from moving up or down until power is properly reset.
From there we'd futz around with the complete key set until we found something that worked. Sometimes we needed an attic ladder to remove victims, but that was rare.
Only once were we forced to resort to the hydra-ram, for a particularly cantankerous door. In this case, we needed to add wood blocks to secure the hydra-ram, as the door was forced further until finally the lock gave way; no damage to the door.
It can be a trying type of call. You have people that are anxious to get out of the car, and once you are there, obviously now the pressure is on, the clock is ticking, and dispatch is waiting to hear those famous words, "the victims have been removed safely."
As that clock ticks....STAY COOL.....