abaduck

One thing for sure. IMHO. In any such serious argument between a cop and a firefighter, *no-one* is going to come out a 'winner'. Play nice.

Being chased is not an excuse to run!! So the driver was vindicated because he thought he was being chased by a cop? How much sense does that make? The driver of the fleeing car should pay the 14 million for injuring his passenger, and the volunteer FF should get a ticket for improper use of a blue light.

I'm going to open my big mouth and bite on this... a few random points:
1. Blue light. Big mistake. That's not what it's for. And as a wise man once said to me, if you drive like an a$$hole, people say 'there goes another a$$hole'. If you drive like an a$$hole with a blue light, it's 'there goes another one of those a$$hole firemen'.
2. Aside from that, on the limited information available, I disagree totally with this judgement. It's ridiculous.
3. The word 'chase' is used freely. Was he chasing? Or following? What's the difference in law? I've 'followed' an obvious drunk driver and called them into the cops, and had the satisfaction of a 'thank you' call back for telling them exactly where to find the guy.
4. So the idiot driver wrapped it round a tree and half-killed their passenger. How is anyone other than the driver liable, unless they were literally forced off the road? If they had stopped at the accident, it wouldn't have happened. If they hadn't driven like an idiot, it wouldn't have happened. Why didn't he sue the bloody driver?
5. I can't remotely see how the town can be liable for this. Way too far remote from the cause of the injury. Unless the report is totally incomplete and the damages were actually awarded because... he crashed into a dangerous tree which the town should have cut down or something. I'd tell him to go whistle for the money, and I can't see this surviving an appeal.
6. If you have confidence in the standard of your driving, do what I've done for the last three years or so - install a 'spy in the cab' camera. Activates automatically when you start the car, runs all the time. No arguments about who's to blame after an incident with video evidence available.
7. If you're in the habit of driving like an a$$hole, ignore 6. above!

I'm going to open my big mouth and bite on this... a few random points:
1. Blue light. Big mistake. That's not what it's for. And as a wise man once said to me, if you drive like an a$$hole, people say 'there goes another a$$hole'. If you drive like an a$$hole with a blue light, it's 'there goes another one of those a$$hole firemen'.
2. Aside from that, on the limited information available, I disagree totally with this judgement. It's ridiculous.
3. The word 'chase' is used freely. Was he chasing? Or following? What's the difference in law? I've 'followed' an obvious drunk driver and called them into the cops, and had the satisfaction of a 'thank you' call back for telling them exactly where to find the guy.
4. So the idiot driver wrapped it round a tree and half-killed their passenger. How is anyone other than the driver liable, unless they were literally forced off the road? If they had stopped at the accident, it wouldn't have happened. If they hadn't driven like an idiot, it wouldn't have happened. Why didn't he sue the bloody driver?
5. I can't remotely see how the town can be liable for this. Way too far remote from the cause of the injury. Unless the report is totally incomplete and the damages were actually awarded because... he crashed into a dangerous tree which the town should have cut down or something. I'd tell him to go whistle for the money, and I can't see this surviving an appeal.
6. If you have confidence in the standard of your driving, do what I've done for the last three years or so - install a 'spy in the cab' camera. Activates automatically when you start the car, runs all the time. No arguments about who's to blame after an incident with video evidence available.
7. If you're in the habit of driving like an a$$hole, ignore 6. above!

I'm going to open my big mouth and bite on this... a few random points:
1. Blue light. Big mistake. That's not what it's for. And as a wise man once said to me, if you drive like an a$$hole, people say 'there goes another a$$hole'. If you drive like an a$$hole with a blue light, it's 'there goes another one of those a$$hole firemen'.
2. Aside from that, on the limited information available, I disagree totally with this judgement. It's ridiculous.
3. The word 'chase' is used freely. Was he chasing? Or following? What's the difference in law? I've 'followed' an obvious drunk driver and called them into the cops, and had the satisfaction of a 'thank you' call back for telling them exactly where to find the guy.
4. So the idiot driver wrapped it round a tree and half-killed their passenger. How is anyone other than the driver liable, unless they were literally forced off the road? If they had stopped at the accident, it wouldn't have happened. If they hadn't driven like an idiot, it wouldn't have happened. Why didn't he sue the bloody driver?
5. I can't remotely see how the town can be liable for this. Way too far remote from the cause of the injury. Unless the report is totally incomplete and the damages were actually awarded because... he crashed into a dangerous tree which the town should have cut down or something. I'd tell him to go whistle for the money, and I can't see this surviving an appeal.
6. If you have confidence in the standard of your driving, do what I've done for the last three years or so - install a 'spy in the cab' camera. Activates automatically when you start the car, runs all the time. No arguments about who's to blame after an incident with video evidence available.
7. If you're in the habit of driving like an a$$hole, ignore 6. above!

Date: 1/22/11
Time: 00:51
Location: 632 Anderson Hill Road "Full Moon Restaurant"
Frequencies: 46.26 / Fire 19 / 33.96
Purchase Units Operating: 2411, 2412, 2413, E238, E240, TL53, U10
West Harrison Units: 2501, 2502, E265
Town of Mamaroneck Units: 2232, 2233, E36 w/ FAST
Port Chester Units: 2393, E61, E64, L31
Harrison Units: 2162, 2163, E10
Mamaroneck Village Units: 2241, L21
Valhalla Units: 2482, R9 w/ FAST
Elmsford Units: L55 w/ FAST
Westchester DES Units: Bat 15, C&O Zone 2, Car 25
Weather Conditions: Cold (Damn cold!)
Description Of Incident: Fire in three-story frame OMD, restaurant with apartments above.
Reporters: Remember585
Writer: Remember585
Relocated to Purchase HQ: Armonk E286 / White Plains L34 (Changed over the course of the fire)
00:51 - Purchase dispatched for a Commercial Alarm.
00:55 - E238 on location.
00:57 - 2413 reports smoke in building, forcing door.
01:00 - 10-75 transmitted, Purchase retoned, West Harrison Engine, Town of Mamaroneck FAST, Bat 19 dispatched.
01:01 - Port Chester 1 & 1 to relocate Purchase HQ. E61 & L31 assigned.
01:05 - 2501 responding.
01:07 - 2502, E265 responding.
01:09 - E61 relocating. 2232, 2233, E36 responding.
01:12 - 2501 advising E265 to assist with hydrant.
01:13 - 2502, E265 on location.
01:16 - 2501 reports a 3-story frame, restaurant on first floor, apartments on two floors above, bring E61 to the scene. Heavy smoke from structure.
01:16 - Harrison to relocate Engine to Purchase for coverage.
01:19 - 2501 requesting L31 to the scene, backfill with another unit.
01:20 - 2501 advising 2393 to have L31 get the roof.
01:21 - Harrison Engine, Mamaroneck Village Ladder to relocate Purchase HQ.
01:22 - 2163, E10 relocating to Purchase HQ.
01:23 - 2412 responding. 2232, 2233, E36 on location.
01:25 - E10 dispatched Purchase College for water flow alarm at Performing Arts Center.
01:26 - Port Chester units dispatched to an Anderson Hill Road address for a water flow alarm.
01:30 - 2412 on location.
01:33 - Bat 15 requesting a Bee-Line bus to the scene. 2501 requesting another Engine to the scene.
01:35 - Port Chester E64 dispatched to the scene.
01:36 - 2241, 2242, L21 relocating to Purchase HQ. E64 responding.
01:38 - 2163 reports Harrison units clearing the college, 2501 requesting them into the scene, E64 to Purchase HQ.
01:40 - 2162, 2163, E10 on location.
01:41 - 60 Control advising 2501 that 2411 is coming with a delay.
01:45 - E64 out at Purchase HQ.
01:49 - Bat 15 requesting Greenburgh cascade unit to the scene.
01:54 - C&O Zone 2 dispatched. 2501 reports all units still operating.
01:55 - Bat 15 requesting the Valhalla FAST to the scene.
01:57 - Bat 15 requesting L21 to the scene.
02:00 - White Plains Ladder requested to Purchase HQ.
02:02 - 2482, R9 responding.
02:04 - 2411 is on location.
02:11 - R9 on location.
02:24 - Bat 15 reports fire is darkening down, 4 L/S/O, using all hands.
02:26 - L34 out at Purchase HQ.
02:36 - 2393 requesting EMS for an injured FF (eye injury I believe, transmission broken).
02:37 - Bat 15 requesting an additional ambulance to the scene for standby.
03:30 - Elsmford FAST dispatched to the scene.
03:31 - North White Plains Engine requested to cover West Harrison HQ.
03:32 - E64 requsted to the scene and on location.
03:33 - Armonk Engine requested to relocate to Purchase HQ. E62 & TL2 on standby in own HQ in Port Chester.
03:45 - E286 enroute to Purchase HQ. E75 enroute to West Harrison HQ.
03:49 - E75 relocated to West Harrison HQ.
03:54 - L55 on location.
04:08 - E286 out at Purchase HQ.
04:27 - 2411 reports the fire is under control.
04:30 - 2241, L21 in service.
04:36 - E36, L55 in service.
04:51 - L34 released from Purchase HQ.
04:52 - E10 in service.
04:59 - R9 in service.
05:10 - E61, E64 in service.
05:32 - E75 released from West Harrison HQ.
05:41 - Bat 15 in service.
05:45 - E265, L31 in service.
05:48 - E286 released from Purchase HQ.
06:28 - All units in service from the fire scene.
Lohud article

The school district in Denair, CA told a young boy he couldn't fly the American Flag on his bike

I am not commenting on or critiquing the Asbury park fire since we do not know with certainty what actually happened yet. However...you are completely wrong regarding vertical ventilation...this should be accomplished as rapidly as possible regardless of hoseline positioning with one or two specific, rare exceptions which I will not go into here...PLEASE, do not make posts about such a critical life or death subject in such a self confident, matter of fact manner unless you know what you are talking about.....we have such limited fire duty these days and there are those who will apply what they learn on this forum on the fireground...
As far as your comments regarding horizontal ventilation, your guidelines are overly simplistic, and again, may cause more harm than good to those reading this if they decide to take it as gospel....when I have time I will post some correct information on horizontal ventilation unless (hopefully) someone beats me to it....
Please don't take this personal...I'm sure you mean well, but when such clearly incorrect information is posted about what is such a basic and important procedure on the fireground, it is essential that it be rebutted as quickly as possible and the correct information put forward...

Agreed, 'respond with caution' is terrible phraseology; almost designed to give some sharp lawyer ammunition. 'Respond non-emergency' is equally short and clear. As for expedite, yes when it comes to ConEd as others have pointed out, otherwise... sizeup is more useful: 'Engine XX and all units, be advised we have a confirmed working fire with persons trapped' sounds a heck of a lot more useful to this plain old line firefighter, and we all know what it will mean for the response. 'Expedite' is redundant.

Plantiffs lawyer: Mr Firefighter/EMT please show me in there SOPs from your department what is meant by the term expediate and how you should drive?
Mr Firefigher/EMT: I can't
Plantiffs lawyer: Why?
Mr Firefighter/EMT: Its not an official term
Plantiffs Lawyer: If I called the 28 other firefighters/EMTs from your department what would they say?
Mr Firefighter/EMT: They would say its a serious incident and your arrival on the scene is needed fast
Plantiffs lawyer: But isn't that why you have lights and sirens
Mr Firefighter/EMT: True but we need to drive even faster
Plantiffs Lawyer: Thank you for your testimony today
..... Three days later: The jury finds in the case of estate of Jane Doe vs your town that your town and department was negligent and the estate of Jane Doe will be awarded the amount of $5,000,000. Thank you.

At the other end of the spectrum, when dispatch advises you to: "respond with caution" is that a liability concern. Do we always respond with caution?
In our case this situation is created when 10 codes were dropped (by one side) and plan English based on a typo is used.

Although this entire event is surely tragic, I feel that the most horrific aspect of this tragedy is that this "mental case" shot an innocent 9 year old girl to death in cold blood and the news focuses largely on the Congresswoman as the majority of the story. Not to say "any" life is more important than any other, it just shows how slanted the media can be with stories of tragedies like this. Just my .02cents.

Sage, he listed the communist manifesto amongst his favourite books, and he posted a video of a flag-burning on YouTube. So the right can make him out to be a commie-loving flag-burning nut job, and the left can make him out to be a right-wing nut job foaming at the mouth after listening to one too many shock jocks. Both are wrong and are shamefully using this for political ends; he was a nut job plain and simple, his insane motivations had nothing to do with what you, I, or any sane person would call 'politics'. This was a Cho, not a McVeigh. To those calling for the death penalty, I sympathise but to be honest I doubt he'll be found sane enough to try. If he is tried, he'll probably be found too insane to convict; he belongs in a a secure hospital.
(Oh and for the record, my politics tend to the right, but I'm really more a libertarian than anything else)

I've had a look around various news sites covering this story, especially the comments sections, and I'm profoundly depressed at the number of people (on both sides) who straightaway, before the blood was even cleaned up, made this a partisan political issue. The guy who did this was apparently a total bloody nut job; these comment-posting people who would make this political aren't nuts, they're simply *hateful*.

Wrong way drivers should have their license revoked for 1 year. after the year is up, they should be subject to another road test.

Really? Fully 50% of your income goes to taxes? The government picked your doctor? What insurance plan are you on? The government told you where you can live? Could you post the letter from the government that dictated that to you? Even told you what car you can drive? Was that in the same notice about where you can live?
The fact of the matter remains, this bill was blocked by the Republicans. They may want to be known as the "law and order, tough on crime" party, but when it comes to matters like the 9/11 bill and union/collective bargaining issues, public sector workers (and private sector) in many cases don't have much to look forward to under Republican leadership.

I don't get this at all.
"The 911 system cost-sharing initiative would allow the city to recoup the costs associated with 911 system dispatch and telemetry that are currently borne by the city..." Excuse me, isn't 911 an essential service which the city HAS to provide? The notion of trying to 'recoup' those costs strikes me as... peculiar.


So what's next? Change 911 from toll-free to premium rate? That would raise money.


They're charging ambulances for using the system? Shouldn't they be *paying* for ambulances if the city needs them? If most of the tours are run by FDNY, most of the fee will be paid by FDNY, in other words the taxpayers?


As I said at the beginning, I don't get this at all!

For those of you who think that the training is minimal, you better think again. In your free time pick up NFPA 921 (or if you really want to be on up to date, the new edition should be out anytime now). I encourage you to read and comprehend the entire document. When you have completely absorbed all of it, pick up NFPA 1033. And when you have understood Daubert and Gate keeping, by all means do not stop there...
Fire Investigation HAS NEVER been so comprehensive and scientific than it is right now. If you think a fire chief is going to stroll into court, state the facts, and not be shredded on the stand, it is not just going to happen.Cases are now being overturned because of "junk science". Look up the Todd Willingham case if you really want an eye opener.
I have been doing this as a career for the last several years and it has become such a specialized field it almost to the point you have to be an engineer in the particular case you are working on. Most investigators now have so many letters and advanced degrees after their names its almost funny.
Support the Dutchess County FID. They as a team serve a very important function for the county, and they do it without getting paid.
If you do not realize their importance now, maybe you will when the DA cannot get a conviction because he / she does not have the resources.

Your right I did not ask about your fire district, I 1st asked why and what type of foam would be used. In my experience 90% of firefighters either use foam improperly or dont understand why they are using foam. You answered my question by stating you did not know what chemicals are found in YOUR fire district.
My 2nd question was a general question about how fire fighters gather information about hazards in there district.
Yes and I also asked a very simple question for all firefighters.
If you thought my questions was an attack on your department, then you could have simply not answered me. Since I do not know which dept you are with and you did respond that your dept. cant answer the question than I guess party time is over and you and your dept needs to get back to work. I sorry you feel I'm a kill joy and I've ruined the topic for you. My intent is to get others to consider this issue and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. To many firefighters have died or been injured because they do not have information available to them.
There are many "hard" questions that need to be asked in the fire service. This one fire should open the door to asking "how are we doing" and "can we do it better"?
I'm sorry that you feel you are the only one with the RIGHT to ask a question on here. Since you can not answer my general question, then maybe you need to think a little longer about what questions are important in the fire service.
If you can not take the heat (of a simple question) get out of the fire.
Thank you.

Date: 11/25/2010
Time: ????
Location: ????
Frequency:
Units Operating: MFD, West Harrison FAST
Weather Conditions: Clear & Cool
Description Of Incident: Working structure fire.
Reporters: WAS967
Writer: WAS967
60 Control dispatching West Harrison FAST to respond to Town of Mamaroneck for a working structure fire. PM with more details.

I just read the IA for the Croton incident regarding the subject stuck in the mud.
I just wanted to say awesome job to WCPD Aviation for an outstanding job! That is a large area and would be very tricky for any sort of rescue or other emergency. AIR-2's assistance undoubtedly played a large role in the positive outcome of this situation. Just another great example of why WCPD Aviation is such an outstanding resource for the County. Job well done lads!
Also, kudos to all the responders on the ground; FD, EMS and PD. Great heads-up thinking by the IC to call in Air-2 and in such a timely manner. From the IA, Air-2 was in the area within 10 minutes of being requested.

Date: 10-31-10
Time: 16:00 Hrs
Location: Rochelle Hieghts
Frequency: N/A
Units Operating: 2306
Weather Conditions: Cool
Description Of Incident:55 gal drum of radioactive material spilled, also producing a vapor cloud, contaminating hundreds of trick or treaters
Reporters: BN
Writer: BN
As of 21:00 hrs the spill was contained, no more vapor and all trick or treaters given candy antidotes.


Happy Halloween to all.

I am increasingly disgusted with the way the media is portraying this guy as the victim in this case. The victims are the cops who were involved, end of story.
As for these so called " minority law enforcement groups" who are so concerned with this case, the majority of them are corrections officers who have no clue what it's like to be a street cop. They should be embarassed to have held that press conference and said the anti cop things that they said. It's funny how they come out of the wood work when a cop shoots someone but when gang members are killing each other and people are getting robbed, beaten, raped, burglarized and shot each and every day, they say nothing. These jerks are opportunists and nothing more. Everyone ran to back up this guys family and his friends version of what happened and now that his BAC is back at a .13 everyone is quieting down a bit. It kind of reminds me of the tawana brawley case all those years ago... everyone ran to her defense and just like the witnesses in this case, she was a LIAR.
I pray that our brothers are doing well as they try to come to terms with the actions that they were forced to take. These cops made the right decisions and did an outstanding job given the circumstances. Just think, you have a large crowd and an out of control drunk driver, if the officer didn't take the action he did, imagine what the outcome could have been if the car sped into the crowd. This cop not only did the right thing, he is a hero in my book.

Seth, what does this site need, technically, to be workable? In terms of bandwidth, server resources etc.?
I have a 25/25 business FIOS connection, and any number of server boxes available. If it's technically feasible I'll host the site, or part of it, for free.
Mike (15 years an IT pro before getting into firefighting!)

Seth, what does this site need, technically, to be workable? In terms of bandwidth, server resources etc.?
I have a 25/25 business FIOS connection, and any number of server boxes available. If it's technically feasible I'll host the site, or part of it, for free.
Mike (15 years an IT pro before getting into firefighting!)