gamewell45

On 7/4/2016 at 2:31 PM, Bnechis said:

You said you googled "exterior firefighter" and found nothing.

 

i said I googled "yard breather" and found a number of sites.

 

maybe instead of challenging me, you need to learn how to use google?

Sure, after you work on your reading comprehension.  I never said "exterior firefighter" I said "firefighter helpers".

On 7/4/2016 at 10:59 AM, 16fire5 said:

 

Why do we need to change it legally.  Any lay person who hears the title firefighter expects the person to fight fires.  The NFPA does not define exterior firefighters.  With the exception of a few states (NY in that few) these members/personnel are defined as what they are drivers, support ect.  

 

Because that is what it is going to take if you want the term removed.  While the NFPA may not define exterior firefighters, certain departments do and that's something that people in the fire service will just have to live with.

4 hours ago, Bnechis said:

The misleading term is firefighter, because the public expects a firefighter. When your kid or parent is trapped inside and a bunch of people show up with turnout gear, they expect them to actually do something.

 

Recently, the Mayor of Port Chester claimed that the PCFD had 300 members, 150 interior. But we know that they only paid for 75 bailouts (required by NYS Law) but 16 were for the career FF's of both PCFD and RBFD. So they only have 59 at best. To many depts lie, even to themselves about the number of members.

Then take the Village of Port Chester to task for misleading the public.  In the meantime I stand by my opinion that your term was divisive and was totally unnecessary.  It would be the same if I referred to interior firefighters as fire extinguishers since that is a major part of what they do; I doubt many firefighters would embrace that term; in fact I suspect many would take offense at it. 

If you find term firefighter objectionable when it's applied to Exterior personnel, fine but there is no need to be divisive; instead work for reform to legally change the titles if it offends you so much.  Being divisive accomplishes absolutely nothing positive.

15 hours ago, nfd2004 said:

Wearing a badge and a uniform as an Exterior Firefighter, marching down Main St in the Fourth of July Parade takes a lot of balls. It's a totally false claim trying to be a firefighter marching in the same group. Maybe carrying a banner saying; "Exterior Qualified Only" would give credit to where credit is due. I have no problem with that, if that's the way it's done.

If you feel that strongly, it might behoove you to write to your state legislator requesting that they change the laws to require the badges and banners, to reflect the actual correct title as you deem fit.

4 hours ago, Bnechis said:

Actually if I wanted to used a decisive term I would have used "Yard Breather" and I googled that and found a whole bunch of sites and definitions. Now these are members who are considered interior but never get inside because they use all their air walking back and forth outside.

 

if you watch all the videos on YouTube you can see that a vast majority of exterior personnel stand around waiting for the fire to go out.

Perhaps you could share those sites with us ?

11 minutes ago, SageVigiles said:

Of course I've heard the term, my point is that it is a misleading term used so that a department can advertise they have "100 Firefighters" when really there are only 25 are qualified to actually fight a fire.

Ok that's fine; my point was there is no need to use a divisive term as the OP did in his post.  If in fact people feel this is a misleading term, then perhaps they should push to make it state law where any FD has to list by category and job function what each firefighter does and make it available to the public.  That will solve the advertising problem.

Just now, SageVigiles said:

That's interesting, because I searched NFPA 1001: Standard for Fire Fighter Professional Qualifications for the term "Exterior Firefighter" and there is no qualification listed under that...

So are you saying you've never heard the term before?

On 6/4/2016 at 9:47 AM, Bnechis said:

So then let's call it what it really is...

 

you ou have Firefighters and you have Firefighter Helpers.

 

Barry, I googled your term "Firefighter Helpers" and there is nothing listed under that.  Therefore I'm going to conclude that it is nothing more then a divisive term you threw into the mix.  The term "exterior" is more appropriate in this case and I'm sure you are well aware of what Exterior Firefighters roles are in the fire service.

On 6/20/2016 at 0:52 PM, jd783 said:

This is why the volunteer system does not work in todays times. Structure fire at 11am on a monday morning. I am not saying paid depts put out every fire in a timely manner but I I can promise you we are on scene operating at the 15 min mark. this was reposted from Facebook all names were removed to protect the innocent 

 

 

 

 

**Structure Fire** (OOC) Carmel NY, 86 Duke Rd & Dale Rd. Fire in the rear of the residence.

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 Lake Carmel 1 engine requested

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 Fire investigation team requested

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 Carmel, Lake Carmel & Patterson all requesting additional manpower. Putnam Lake M/A

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 Carmel additional tones, driver needed

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FIT requesting additional tones for members

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 Putnam 911 advising all stations there are little to no apparatus on the road ATT, incident is 15+ mins in.

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12-2-1 now responding

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 PCEMS1 now responding

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 18-2-1 on standby at Carmel firehouse

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 Apparatus are now o/s, status of the fire unknown ATT

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And it's unlikely to change anytime soon; you want a career department that's fine, but it comes with a cost attached to it and the taxpayers don't want to pay the costs; they'd rather roll the dice. 

The biggest problem with volunteer departments is getting the apparatus out in a timely fashion; most departments resist having bunk-in's at the fire stations which would cut response time dramatically instead relying on the volunteers to get out of bed and respond to the firehouse for apparatus. Until the mindset changes, nothing will change.

2 hours ago, FireMedic049 said:

I think you misunderstood my comment.  I wasn't speaking about employer initiated discipline, I was referring more to comments from the online peanut gallery.  I've seen numerous comments that call for career firefighters to be fired for an inappropriate action or comment that oftentimes really isn't worthy of termination.

 

As for your comment, typically the employee has the ability to challenge the termination via the grievance process.  If the matter cannot be resolved via discussion/negotiation between the employer and the union on behalf of the employee, then the matter would go to arbitration.  If the employer can't show just cause for the termination, then more than likely the employee would be reinstated by the arbitrator.

You are 100% correct; that was a mis-read on my part.  My apologies.

On 5/26/2016 at 5:34 PM, FireMedic049 said:

I also disagree.  I've seen a number of examples in which a career firefighter was caught doing/saying something inappropriate and plenty have called for their termination, even if the infraction didn't really warrant termination.  Several have resigned as a result of these situations and the reaction to them.

I'm surprised because normally most labor contracts have language regarding termination for just cause, in which the burden of proof lays on the employer, who must make their case before an impartial umpire or neutral third party.  If clearly the infraction didn't really warrant termination, they the employee would not lose his/her job or at least it stands to reason.

14 hours ago, Rjsii1432 said:

I've never seen a tiered dispatch with ALS FD first response that TOTs to commercial Als ambulances. It should be interesting. I wonder how long it would take before AFD transitions to FF/EMT-Bs only. 

It's quite possible that what you propose may occur; i'm wondering if that's what the Board of Commissioners ultimately want to happen.

1 hour ago, spyda308 said:

All that for 2%?

Apparently so. 

6 hours ago, Rjsii1432 said:

So that means they are going to contract with a paid Als ambulance service? So 911 will send an AFD first response vehicle along with the commercial ambo? 

It gives them the right to contract out the work to any paid commercial ambulance firm they so choose.  As I understand it, AFD will still send an engine or other vehicle to provide emergency care until arrival of the PCA.

Career Firefighters from the Arlington Fire District have reached a 5 year agreement on a new labor contract.  It includes a 2% pay increase beginning January 1, 2017 and a switch in medical benefits provider.  It also provides for the district to hire commercial Ambulance firms to transport patients to hospitals, thus eliminating department staffed ambulances; however both career and volunteers will still respond to EMS calls to provide emergency care.

http://www.afd.org/Pdf/051616PressReleaseonreachingagreement.pdf

1 hour ago, Dinosaur said:

It does happen on the police side too...

 

http://www.app.com/story/news/local/communitychange/2016/05/11/lake-como-police-shuts-its-doors-tonight/84225366/

I think it's been around 15 years now since Pawling, NY disbanded its police force.  It happened at one of the village board meetings when a motion was made to disband the entire force and turn police matters over the county Sheriff's Office.  There were a lot of shocked people in the village, including members of the police department.

15 minutes ago, nfd2004 said:

 

 I dealt with this problem for my entire career as a firefighter. The active members of this department are dealing with this problem even more now.

 

 I was a volunteer firefighter in another town in a combination dept. We all got along great. Then I move to take the job I worked for so hard to get and I find out that I entered a "War Zone". Guys hated me and I didn't even know them. No doubt many of them resented the fact that I came from a distance to get that job. It was actually the sixth test I took and I finely got hired.  I knew that a lot of those guys had families, train on their off time, go to calls in the middle of the night, then get up the next morning to go to their jobs, "JUST AS I DID". But now these guys hate me for the Job I do. I couldn't understand that at all.

 

 It took a long time for this to actually sink in. In the beginning I figured it was only a few. But soon I learned it was actually the majority taking part in actions against myself and brother firefighters. I wish it wasn't like that because many times when we needed them, they were there to help us.

 

  Also what I didn't understand is how could I have so many volunteer firefighter friends outside my own home town. They respected me and I certainly respected them for the job they did. Not only are we friends, but we really are Brothers with a common interest.

 

 Without a doubt, every one of those volunteer firefighters and officers should fight to get those laid off firefighters back to work. As Brother/Sister firefighters, "STAND UP FOR SOMETHING OR FALL FOR ANYTHING". We should be Unite'n not Fight'n to band together. Together we could represent a huge force in our purpose of helping others and saving lives. Together we could become a very powerful group with the ability of facts to back up what we say. But it's up to you, the vol firefighters to do it.

 

  Portchester Volunteer firefighters, tell those leaders and fire chiefs that you intend to get your Brother firefighters back to work now. Or Port Chester may need to find itself some other guys willing to respond to those calls. The ball is in your corner now. You have every right to hold those leaders responsible for what they did. And you have every right to demand they come back.

 

  You do that and I can pretty much assure you that no Port Chester Career firefighter will ever forget that. It would be a Win/Win for everybody.

 

I would suggest that a representative from career staff meet with the Captains from each volunteer company and lay their cards on the table and see what the volunteers will do to help their Brothers.

17 minutes ago, kinkchaser said:

Look this issue will not solve the labor problems in America, how about we concentrate on the Port Chester eight and see if their jobs and families can't be saved. Perhaps a luminary from the AFL_CIO or someone like Eddie Doyle from the Teamsters can approach the Volunteerrs and reason with them, Because with out the Vollies full cooperation this plan can not work nor would they like to get jammed up with their Locals or parent Unions

Kinkchaser; you are correct; this will not solve all the labor problems in America and its not supposed to, but you have to start somewhere; of course we can keep putting off the issue and nothing will get done and it'll be business as usual. 

If you read the last paragraph in my posting I listed things that may help the Brothers in getting some action done which may restore their jobs.  You need reach out to the vollies and form a working partnership,  but keep in mind the thrust of my post.  If we are all going to be unionists, they we have to work together as a team and not play the role but work the role.

2 hours ago, kinkchaser said:

It was obvious from the start that no Village Board would have done this without assurances from the Volunteers, that they could pick up the duties of the Paid Firefighters and fulfill the Rye Brook contract. How many of the Vollies are AFL-CIO or Teamster members . How could they be party to putting fellow Union members and their families"out in the street". Remember the Port Chester local is part of the AFL-CIO

First off,  I've been involved as a labor activist for over 37 years and spent time on picket lines with both private and public sector unions that I'm not affiliated with and engaged in numerous actions including organizing to help my union and others bring rights to the workplace.

That being said, I can tell you that in this case, it appears both sides are a part of the same hypocrisy; how many firefighters who are union/volunteers do you see shopping at Walmart (Who is on the AFL-CIO's hit list for anti-union activities) or union "brothers" buying foreign made automobiles or doing side jobs on their days off doing carpentry or plumbing, taking jobs away from union tradesman?? 

It seems at times that some of us  wrap ourselves in the flag of unionism only when it affects us, ie. contract talks, layoffs, etc.  But if some other union has an issue, in some cases, it falls on deaf ears since it doesn't impact on us directly.  What your seeing in Port Chester is precisely what i'm talking about.  Perhaps if all members practiced what they preached when it's contract time 24/7, you'd you'd see more of a partnership of working together particularly in situations like what is going with the Brothers in Port Chester

When I was on strike in 1987 I got to watch firefighters cross our picket lines with the excuse being "we have an obligation to protect civilians and save lives"  Well, it wouldn't surprise me if the vollies in Port Chester are of the same mentality. While the vollies may not refuse to get the trucks on the road, they can participate in informational picketing, getting signatures for petitions to restore the laid off brothers jobs, helping to campaign for elected officials who are pro-union, etc.  We should all be working towards a working partnership as opposed to one of division.  Food for though my Brothers.

On 4/29/2016 at 9:32 AM, AFS1970 said:

This is so much a part of us that we accept it without thinking of it. This article brings it to mind, so we are somewhat defensive but generally in agreement. But look at the first excuse about poor examples in the command structure. No one in this thread will say anything other than the Chief needs to be fit as a fiddle. But in a previous thread about a chief going through RIT training, many were saying he didn't need to do that, his job was a desk job. Well if all he does is drive a desk, why can't he be 400 pounds? We have accepted this for so long that it is the norm.

 

As for the union excuse and the career suicide excuses, they are tied together in that nebulous word "brotherhood". If you criticize other members too much you are thought of as not being a brother, even if you are looking out for their health. I once heard an HR staff member say that all unions did was to protect the incompetent, he said this to me while I was serving on a union negotiation team. Now I obviously did not agree with him, but I have seen where that perception comes from just because the union want's to make sure the process is fair. So try firing someone based only on being overweight and out of shape, the union is no so much defending being fat as making sure that a department that watched the employee get fat over a number of years is not unjustly applying a new rule or requiring a sudden weight loss in a matter of days.

 

If a department decided to implement a new physical fitness standard, it would be met with resistance by anyone who could not meet it. In the volunteer sector there would be many calls for grandfathering of existing members. On the career side this would likely be subject to negotiations, and the union would want to get something in return for agreeing to this. Add this to most peoples only vague knowledge of the ADA and what can and can not be considered a disability and you kind of have a perfect store that will discourage members from speaking up.

 

 

My son is a career FF down in SC, it's non-union (State law says municipalities are not required to recognize unions) and every year he has to undergo a rigorous physical exam.  If you fail it you have 60 days to meet the standards and if not, then you are out of a job.  No and's, if's or buts, your gone -- no union to go to bat for you.  Every morning everyone on shift exercises for 45 minutes (they stagger it so not everyone is exercising at the same time) to help them remain in shape.

On 3/17/2016 at 4:25 PM, SECTMB said:

How do you conduct a primary search with a two person engine? When the homeowner comes running out of the smoke filled house screaming the children are inside, what do you say?  They'll be another truck along in a few minutes!!

 

Where does the money go?  

 

You do the possible; the impossible is just going to have to wait.

On 3/30/2016 at 6:03 PM, nfd2004 said:

Do the citizens of this place who depend on their fire department know this ?

 

Do they know that this is the guy that will be responsible for spending their tax dollars when it comes to fire protection ?

 

Do they know that this is the guy that is going to be responsible for life and death decisions involving their family members and friends ?

 

My last question is, "Is this a hoax or some kind of April Fool joke" ?

I suspect that most of the citizens could care less as long as the trucks show up.  Most of them are ignorant on how the fire department operates.

That'll work out just fine until one of the pachyderms gets caught in a fire and ends up being a roast, then you'll have the environmentalists screaming bloody murder.

Thoughts and prayers go out to the deceased Brother's family and friends. Pray for a speedy recovery for the survivors in the ambulance as well.

Nice photo's; thanks for posting them!