lt411

I see the point, but I'd think controlling your own risks is a better overall scenario. But short of a situation that blows up in someones face, it appears to be a non-issue. Just another interesting thing I get to learn along the way. As a student of the fire service as a whole, I enjoy seeing how things are done everywhere, right, wrong or indifferent.

From my experience, every time there is a major issue at hand that could potentially be of some type of embarassment to the fire department or the fire district, the commissioners say that it is somehow related to a personnel issue (Obviously!!! How else would the department be embarassed if not by the actions of an individual or group of individuals) and that it must be discussed in a closed door meeting. They then return to the floor and any questions asked regarding the issue are deflected by saying that "it is connected to a personnel issue and connot be discussed for fear of litigation" (exactly what was said in the aforecited article by the Chairman of the Board of Fire Commissioners). Then, if a newspaper or reporter asks any question about a personnel matter, the Commissioners buy time by saying that the reporter must FOIL them. Then after they get the FOIL request, they defer to the same tactic and say that they can't discuss personnel issues.
SO WHY WOULD THE PUBLIC ATTEND? I was a 10 year member of the emergency services community (5 years as an Officer) and it didn't take me longer than a year to stop going to those meetings because all of the pertinent matters are discussed behind closed doors. The commissioners were talking about things that directly impacted me as a firefighter and I got fed up and wrote those meetings off as a waste of my time. Why should John Q Taxpayer feel any different? Just like everything else with politicians, they hide behind smoke screens, generalities, and procedure until taxpayers who have legeitimate questions about their emergency services get fed up and determine that its not worth their time to figure seek the answers that they desire. They then curse the Department, the Chiefs, and the Commissioners under their breath and tell their entire circle of friends within the community over dinners and drinks about their awful experience with the Fire Department (they generalize) and what bad corrupt people they are. Then neither they nor their friends within the community attend, vote, or volunteer (or donate).
I think some people in this business (no reflection on you Bnechis or FFPCogs as I truly appreciate your posts/views) have a tendency to say "why is the public doing this to us?" instead of "What are we doing to make the public think of us in this light?" and "How are we driving people away?" The emergency services can blame the kids who grew up with a silver spoon in their mouths; they can blame the businessmen who have no time for their community; they can blame the economy for creating stagnant conditions that require people to work so hard that they have no time to volunteer; they can blame video games. BUT IN MY OPINION, THEY SHOULD REALLY TAKE A LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND ASK THEMSELVES WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO MAKE PEOPLE NOT WANT TO ATTEND, VOTE, OR VOLUNTEER. After all, how is your retention rate? Most places can't even keep the people that are interested to begin with.
Just like your reputation within the department, it takes 10 "atta boys" to get rid of one "oh s***." Does your organization have 10 equally weighted positive articles published (or stories/rumors spread around the community) about it for every 1 negative article that has been published about it in the recent past. I can tell you with complete certainty that the organization with which I was previously affiliated absolutely does not. The emergency services are not getting a bad rap out of thin air.

In my opinion ( And sometimes I have alot ) the moral of the story is that no proper hearings were performed to get the full story. Yes foul language was used and should never be used, but there has to be more to the story. I can undestand being upset that after marching you notice members hanging out when they could of been with their department in line, also was there alcohol involved. Let's be real every parade that I have marched in food, soda and beer were there, and yes I myself have been intoxicated prior to step off and I bet others too. And I have made remarks or got into a little heated debated with others. It's wrong, but it happens. The main story is that was there fair and due process done for a suspension oexpulsion. Every Firedepartment should have a grievence commitee to handle internal problems then have a hearing within the department so witness and statements from both sides could be heard, if that is done the town or village should be aware of what occured and either the matter was taken care of or village or town admin. and trustees must step in and have a proper hearing. Fire Chiefs and Captains are too fast at the trigger to hand down suspensions. As far as a 10 million dollar lawsuit, a lawyer can ask for the stars, but will only get nada! I'm tired of this sue happy world, but thats the way it is. It has come to the point like I have been rambling on for years, times have changed, trust no one and keep your mouth shut and think before you speak. And if you have a problem with another member don't explode when your wearing department issued uniform, your representing your department and your town/village. Just because a parade may be a social event your still a employee of your town/village.

I know the question was specifically what ONE thing rookies should know. Unfortunately it is not that simple. When I teach I try to emphasize they need to learn to follow the Marine Corps philosophy of "adapt, improvise, and overcome." In addition, whenever I teach a probie class, I hand out something I got from Lt. Tim Klett of FDNY many year ago he refers to as "The Four Ups" which all firefighters, career or volunteer, should take to heart and live by.
“Listen Up”
“When you are first starting in the fire service, there is a lot going on. You are entering a culture that is unlike any other one on this planet. You will hear stories, tales and just plain B.S. But listen carefully. That is our past talking. All of the information has value….Listen to the older, over-the-hill, past-their-prime, malcontents, for the little ‘pearls of wisdom’ that aren’t in any textbooks. A lot of important information that will help keep you safe and alive on the fire ground is not written down. The fire service is very young. We are losing our experience. The firefighters that went to fires during the war years are slowly retiring. Talk to them before they leave. We are losing our history, we are losing our past. Don’t let this happen.”
“Clean Up”
“The firehouse is your second home. Treat it as such. And if you are the junior firefighter working, you are the lowest on the totem pole. You get the dirty work….This is based on the fact that all the junior people before you did it, or should have done it. You do it until the next probie (comes along). It is part of belonging, it is doing what you should be doing. And it is always pretty funny, because in my experience, the ones that piss and moan about doing the chores usually end up doing them by themselves for a long time. But the ones that just do it…usually find that they have help. They become accepted into the “family” a little quicker.”
“Step Up”
“Be involved in your company and in your department. Attend company functions, help run them if possible….Become a productive member of your Company. Above all, go to funerals and services, especially the line of duty ones. Pay your respects. Become a part of the fire service by deed and not by mouth.”
“Shut Up”
“Spend more time listening and doing than talking about it. Show by your actions and your deeds what type of firefighter and member of this great Brotherhood you are.”

There are many things rookies should know.... here is one thought I teach. RESPECT your uniforms. All 3 of them. Firefighting (actions on the fire ground), dress (actions when in class A's), and civilian (actions while off duty and wearing your FD t-shirts, hats, puffy jackets etc....)
Understand that YES you are held to a higher standard when your a firefighter. If you cannot respect this fact, understand it and live it, move on.

Ok to clear things up the commissioner is a mayoral appointee who doesn't have any fire experience and we have had commissioners that had no fire service experience. Chief John O'Hagen actually held both positions at the same time but that has since been outlawed. The commissioner never enjoys tenure.
The Chief of the Department on the other had was formerly a civil service title was the highest rank in all of NYC government that was tested and all in the rank of Deputy Chief and above were eligible to test for it. Under Commissioner Von Essen the city attempted to change the way the chief ranks were decided because it seemed they were not happy with the pool. They proposed Chief Level I and II. Chief level I would be the rank of battalion chief decided by civil service test and promotions above level I would be decided by the commissioner. I believe they reasoned that all upper level chiefs would owe their allegiance to the commissioner and they would like the pool to choose from better. Step in that pesky union the UFOA. They challenged the proposed change in court. The city attempted to argue that there was no real difference between Deputy and Battalion Chief. The union was successful and the change was blocked but the city was pretty committed to not allowing another man to reach tenure in the rank of Chief of Department. The last man to be tenured was the late Pete Ganci who was tenured because his 1 year probation ran out without any action by the city by their inaction he defaulted into tenure. As we all know Pete the fireman's fireman died with the 342 other brave members on that fateful day in September of 2001. They then appointed Dan Nigro to chief a man who stepped up at an unprecedented time to do a very difficult job. Chief Nigro had always done what was asked of him and had routinely taken on difficult jobs like the EMS integration into the department. As thanks for that they showed him the door just shy of a year to avoid tenure and re-wrote the probation for Chief of Department to 2 years. What followed were a few more chiefs that would get all the way to the tenure point and then let go. Finally after all this the UFOA found it self in contract negotiations that required substantial give backs to meet the pattern set. It was in those negotiations (circa 2005 or 2006) that we bargained away Chief of Department as a civil service rank. The Chief of Department now serves at the pleasure of the commissioner. I believe he or she must be filled from the rank of deputy which is the highest civil service rank in the FDNY.

Chief- I like the concept, but I would need to know more about all that goes with it. In my last career dept.,I could see the "bean counters" loving this concept. There would be no more overtime for the company officers, and many officer positions would be left unfilled, and "master F/Fs " put in their spot to save money. That is the only negative I see. Otherwise, the concept is great.

Moose,
I empathize with you completely as I was recently placed in a similar situation. I am a 10 year member (joined at 16 years old) of a Westchester County fire department. I have served as an officer for the past 6 years as Rescue Company Lieutenant for 1 year, Rescue Company Captain for 2 years, Engine Company Lieutenant for 1 year, and Captain of the department for 2 years. Additionally, I have taken pride in being well trained and hold certificates for Firefighter 1, Firefigher 2, Firefigher Survival, Rescue Tech Basic, NYS/CT EMT, HAZ-MAT Operations, Truck Company Ops, Firefighter Assist and Search Teams, Introduction to Fire Officer, Fire Officer 1, Emergency Vehicle Operations Course, Emergency Vehicle Operator-Pump, and various Westchester County/Seminar Certifications. Outside of my Emergency Services Career, I have a college degree from a very prestigious Liberal Arts College and am in the process of getting a Masters in Business Administration from an acclaimed NYC University. In my professional career I am an executive for a Fortune 500 company in New York City.
In this past election, I was squeezed out of the line of Officers when an Ex-Chief decided to go around again (lost by 1 vote). At that time, I determined that I no longer wanted to be a part of that organiation and have been to the firehouse for 4 calls (all possible structure fires/entrapments) since the end of my term in may. I have not attended a single drill or meeting. I have drafted my letter of resignation and will submit it next month at our monthly meeting. It was my belief that the values of the organization of which I was a part was no longer consistent with my vision of what an emergency services organization should be and that I no longer wanted to be a part of it. With all due respect, it sounds like you should count your losses as well. Do you really want to be part of a fire department that allows individuals to occupy the rank of Captain with no formal training? Now that you are no longer Chief will you have faith that those individuals are making educated decisions that will ensure your safety on the fireground? Are the members of your organization operating in the best interest of the taxpayers who they serve? It sounds like they would be better trained if they actually cared about the lives of the people who they were responsible for protecting.
I will never join another emergency services organization unless I feel that they take pride in best serving the members of the community and ensure that they are "professionally staffed by volunteers." As for now, my career is over until I find an organization that takes pride in being able to fight fire, doesn't b**** when its time to perform a vigorous, physical drill, and spends less time worrying about attending parades, selling Christmas trees, or having barbecues. In my opinion, the volunteer fire service is somewhat lost and needs a reminder of the true, original goals and ideals on which the system was founded.

Do we really have to start the union rhetoric and paid/volunteer nonsense here again?

This isn't a union issue. There's no local being subverted by volunteers in Spring Valley. This is a volunteer FD.

If you think that every volunteer FD should be replaced by a paid, career FD, that's your opinion and you're entitled to that opinion. Start a thread to that effect.

16fire5... Cap, at first glance, it looks like we are at opposite ends of the spectrum, old vs, new and so on, but I think we are much closer than it looks. I also consider FDNY and LA County as real FDs. (not so sure about Chicago). These departments take a theory and try it out in a controlled situation. They will analyze it and discuss it until they are happy with it or throw it out. Often they will either send people out of town to observe its use or talk to whoever is the expert. Then they come out with a bulletin with a complete system for when to use it, when not to and how to use it. Then after it has been used at an actual incident, it is critique by those who operated the job, especially the IC. Take PPV on attack. FDNY has strict rules for its use, a specialized company to use it trained officers to make sure it is needed, set up and operating according to plan, and observers as required for safety. There is also a PPV safety BC to make sure it is having no adverse effects. I think that is what makes a good FD.
So what is a not-so-good FD? I think there are a lot more not-so- good FDs out there and it has nothing to do with size of the department. Let's stick with PPV as our example. Someone in the department, usually the Chief or Training Officer goes to a seminar or watches a video like the LAFD one in this thread. Virtually every word in the video is important. That will tell you when to depart from the norm or the tried and true But this department jumps on the PPV bandwagon without info like input size, output size, when it is counterproductive and so on. The Training Officer does a cursory training session and PPV becomes the first tool placed in front of the building and the fan cranked on. As I said, this happens more often than not. Why? Now that FD can announce "We are a progressive FD 'cause we always use PPV on attack and youse guys are living in the past."
My point is not to abandon all your tactics that served you (and maybe your father) well for so long. There is a time and place for everything. I have ordered a knockdown from the outside for several reasons but the situation and application must be right. As I said, along with the LA video, "Don't wreck your vent." The guys in the not-so-good FDs probably let that one go by the wayside and that is one of the major and basic principals of an outside knock-down. A little twist of the wrist will change your stream to fog and screw up the tactic too.
I agree with you too that the BTU output of the average fire has increased tremendously and lightweight trusses add to the tactical problem of today. I would like to add that we also need more Firefighters. Most FD numbers of FFs have dwindled over the years.

Plenty of fire departments are going for this change. In my opinion the FDNY, Chicago, and LA County are real fire departments.
The fact is we are not steaming victims. The longer we allow the fire to burn un-interupted the less chance the victims have. When water is applied things get better always.
As for basement fires attempting to get down the stairs is a very risky tactic. Exterior knock down that is able to hit the seat of the fire actually will make descending the stairs tenable improves conditions throughout the structure.
Hundreds of fires have been conducted to test these theories both in the labs and in mutltiple aquired structures throughout the country. The revoultionary tactics outlined in FDNY Ladders 3 written in the late 60s worked very well for our department when natural fibers dominated the fuel loads. Then fuel loads of today lead to fires that are much less forgiving.
What's being advocated for the most part is the following. If you can take some of the tremendous energy out of the fire with some exterior application I would say probably never more than 90 seconds is necessary that will aid in your sucess and make it for a safer attack. No one is saying not to vent but coordination and timing is very important now. The research actually validated the benifits of VEIS, horizontal, and vertical ventilation when coordinated with suppression.

Dave Sanford (DC Westport FD, DC Wilton FD, Danbury FD & WRFD): he taught me the importance of training and that we never stop learning. A true gent, great leader, and mentor to so many of us who were fortunate to learn from him and call him a friend.
Bernie Bodner (Norwalk FD): a true fireman's fireman of the old school, Bernie understood fire behavior like no one else I have ever met. He was completely fearless, both on the job and when he fought his final battle with cancer, no doubt linked to so many years of inhaling toxic byproducts of combustion.
Andy "Father" Clarke (LT FDNY): Lt. Clarke shared much of his knowledge which he amassed throughout the War Years, serving on the South Bronx. He allowed me to ride with his engine company while I was a teen, and was kind enough to explain the principles of size-up and incident command before there were any of today's text books on the subject.
Ed Smith (PGCFD & DCFD): Ed took the time to help me, "the new guy", learn and adapt to the DC way of doing things, and watched my back as I learned the ropes on TL33. He will always be my brother from another mother. Stay safe, Cap, I will always have your back as you had mine!
And finally Ed Sere (FDNY): He took a young kid from the country and exposed him to urban firefighting and truck work in Harlem & the Bronx at L14 & R3. Every night buffing with Ed and his brothers was an education, with the lessons including not only life saving & survival techniques, but also an introduction to the brotherhood of the fire service and the importance of a good culture of esprit de corps in the firehouse.
Thank you to all of the aforementioned who so generously helped me start my fire service career. You are all with me every day on the line and in the kitchen. My feelings are best said by the old Irish blessing:
"May the roof above us never fall in, and may we friends gathered below never fall out."

For me I go back to YHFD, and hands down I say with great pride Martin McGannon! In my opinion he was a great chief and teacher. Not only did he encompass everything that makes one a great leader, but he was a great friend and role model. I also say Greg T., he also taught me a lot in the fire service and outside. And finally I add Kenny, I was honored to serve with such a great group.
And for my short time in Da Bronx I will most definitely say Geroge, Jimmy R, Danny B., Beefman, and a true legend D.O.C.
Finally I must say my Current Chief, Chief Olsen is very knowledgeable and very progressive yet still holds true to traditions. And my Academy Chief, Chief McLaren who is a great mentor and the Best instructor the Oregon DPSST has to offer.

I don't know, nor do I care, what this Chief was doing, that business is between him, his Department and those who foot the bill. But what should be clear to everyone by now is that we are ALL under scrutiny...everyday, everywhere, anytime, any place. Whether it's driving dept vehicles or simply wearing FD apparel think before you act...or speak. A moment of carelessness and you just might find yourself plastered all over Youtube, and the fodder for forums like this...or worse still, in the unemployment line on the evening news trying to explain yourself.

Rob, the real story was that cop standing there patiently said NOTHING to the member who came down for recon. I mean zero, it wasn't till he saw the hand coming up through the hole for the pylon that he was like OMFG a person is under there. Bn 19 made a report because it was all $hit canned when he brought up the issue that the cop said nothing awaiting ESU.

The academy loses 10% as a general rule. Take a class of full of candidates who are MUCH older and in poorer physical condition, add a lot of people who couldn't get on because they didn't meet the qualifications 14 years ago and you have trouble. Who's surprised at the drop out rate?
On top of that you have EMS promotees who have a job to go back to if they don't feel the academy is working out for them. I'm not taking a shot at EMS promotees by the way, I work with a bunch and they're good.
2 of 20 open competitive candidates failing is in line with the 10% drop.
Topping off everything is the rhetoric from FIREFIGHTER Coombs. Academy instructors are a hard working lot who, I can assure you, do not single out anyone for anything other than their abilities as candidates. If candidates are failing out of the academy it is because they're not fit for this job and the academy is doing its part to protect people who don't belong from entering a dangerous job and also protecting those of us who work here by insuring that we are surrounded by similarly capable firemen.
If only groups like the Vulcan's would advocate for improved preparation and quality of candidates instead of making excuses for those who can't hack it. When they do this, they undermine and short-change the achievements of those who gave it their all and made it through.

Being a former volunteer firefighter and a career firefighter for the last 23 years (an officer for the last 15), here is my take on it:
Being career does not make you any better than being volunteer. I know some volunteer departments in my old hometown (Dutchess County NY) where everyone is well certified and competent, and they show up very rapidly when the tones go off. Heck, some of those guys are better trained than the people I currently work with.
It all has to do with the following and applies to both volunteer and career departments:
Leadership -- if the department's leadership does not make sure that there is a means to get their membership trained and encourages it, the department will never be functional.
Membership -- if you can't get enough people to adequately staff the vehicles when called, then the department will not be functional.
Political Support -- if you can't get the support of your commissioners or supervising governmental entity, the department will not be functional.
Fire Prevention -- if the department or municipality doesn't take fire prevention seriously and does not have a good inspection program in place where property owners are held accountable, there will be fire safety issues.
I've seen terrible volunteer departments and I've seen terrible career departments. I've also seen great career departments and volunteer departments that would put most career departments to shame. I really don't think it has anything to do with volunteer vs. career as a whole, but the specific area in NJ.
I've seen many departments here in Florida go from volunteer to career and shut down/disband firehouses completely so they could pay the staff of 2 firefighters on an engine for each of the other stations covering a larger area. Yes, you have 100% assurance a unit will respond immediately, but you have less units and longer response times in those areas where the fire stations were shut down.
This is just my 2 cents.

Remembering the 343 FDNY, 23 NYPD, 37 Port Authority PD, the 2,977 innocent lives that were lost 12 years ago. And thank you to our Heroes.. our firefighters, police, ems, military, and K-9 units who rushed down to the towers to look for our love ones and the innocent lives day in and day out.
~9/11/01 Never Forgotten~

Let us not forget 9/11/01. Let us not forget the 343 Fire Fighters who gave the ultiment sacrfice on this tragic day. 12 years later lets sound our sirens across this nation to reflect and pray! Please.. Never forget!

Good topic.
For many of us that have been around awhile it does seem as though Brotherhood in the fire service is dying, because by and large it is. There are a number of specific reasons why this is so, but all share one thing in common, a change in society to one which is far more self serving and filled with a sense of entitlement. Almost every TV show, pop song, movie or other pop culture medium instills the virtue of me me me instead of us us us. It's hard to reach through to someone that has been brought up on a steady diet of: success is measured in the number of thing I have and I must do whatever it takes to get them because I'm entitled to them. There's no room left for us, in fact there is no us in that equation, because it's all about me and what I deserve. And the sad fact is we have all contributed to this change to a greater or lesser degree, not out of malice or greed, but simply because we too succumbed to that constant barrage. To me the slow loss of Brotherhood is ultimately our own fault because we did nothing to stop it. Remember new members only know what they come into when it comes to the culture, camaraderie and tradition of our departments. They can only erode the bonds of Brotherhood within our organizations if we allow that erosion to take place or worse cause it ourselves by our actions (or inaction), even if unintentional.
Now at the risk of offending I feel I must touch on an 800 pound gorilla in the room. In my experience if there is one area in which Brotherhood has taken it's greatest hit overall, it is in the relationship between career and volunteer. Years ago many career firefighters were active and in fact vital members of volunteer departments where they lived and worked. In my City it was a common sight to see a career member working alongside a volunteer, both in the VFD gear since both were members. For reasons stemming from legal constraints and politics to stubbornness and an inability to adapt to change this has waned over the years and now much of our service is plagued by infighting and outright animosity. We ourselves have driven a wedge into the very heart of the notion of Brotherhood because we ourselves are at odds. New members come into this environment and are told the grand tales of Brotherhood among all FFs, only to learn that the words and the reality don't quite mesh many times. And this disparity then undermines the whole principle. It becomes a case of actions speaking louder than words.
In the end Brotherhood will only die if we allow it to. How we act and react, how we conduct ourselves on scene and off and how well we practice what we preach will ultimately decide the future of our Brotherhood...the choice and the future are ours to make.
Stay Safe

You can't just lump every new guy into a category of a few people with really poor attitudes. Especially because if you do, you are just giving up on them. Its not hard to make a guy realize whats expected of him and whats viewed as unacceptable or sub par behavior without violating harassment rules. All you need is to know how to phrase things without flat out telling someone they are an idiot. I am not saying that every young guy is a home run, but I am saying that it's up to everyone to help shape them and show them whats expected, and maybe even sometimes to show them that this might not be for them. Brotherhood starts in the firehouse, with time spent together working. By this simple fact alone it makes it harder to build in a volunteer company because not as much time is spent together. Some departments have a good group of guys that hang out together at the firehouse as well as do things together outside of the house. This time spent together is critical in volunteer organizations if you expect there to be any type of brotherhood, otherwise you just see each other in passing at calls, and a couple times a month at a drill or meeting. That's simply not enough to build a good strong bond with your fellow members and create that brotherhood you are looking for. I know some people are very critical of some of the functions that volunteer organizations hold. I myself can't stand parades and have never shied away from sharing that opinion, fundraising, well there should be some more transparency to that, but as far as picnics, company dances, maybe a weekly card game, or Sunday coffee and breakfast together, these are important functions. These are where the guys can sit around and talk, build friendships, camaraderie, and sow the seeds of the brotherhood. As far as paid companies, there are some that have a strong bond, and there are some that just come in to collect their check. The good companies you see all spend a lot of time together, at work as well as when off duty. In the firehouse, it all starts in the kitchen, its the communal place that everyone comes to sit, talk, share meals, and BS about whats going on. Cooking, and sitting and sharing a meal together is extremely important, it provides a little structure and sets a time for when everyone will be together. Personally, and I have seen this done both ways, but I don't believe the TV has a place in the kitchen. It sucks the life out of the conversation and gives guys an excuse to come in and shut themselves off. Conversation with your brothers should be the main focus of the meal, especially when someone tried something new and the food sucks. It shouldn't end when you're done eating either, you don't just get up and walk out where you're done, you sit and talk, learn, laugh, and build strong bonds with your brothers. Companies like this are some of the best you ever see work together at a fire. Brotherhood is not dead, its alive and well and thriving in many places. Hopefully we can all learn from those of us who are still enjoying the greatness of it, but certainly no one should give up on it.

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

I fear Brotherhood has lost out to technology. The ability to have one's personal life literally at ones fingertips 24/7/365 ensures that is the priority 24/7/365. The camaraderie , Brotherhood and sense of family I found as a proby is lost since gone, taken one small step at a time, though in pretty short order.
When I started at my career position we had two computers used for entering basic NFIRs reports and typing official letters. We arrived at work at least a half an hour before the shift to ensure the off going guys didn't get stuck on a BS run that would mess up their plans. We all gathered at the dayroom table to discuss any pertinent FD issues that arose in the past 48 hours, and then typically drifted to anything of interest we'd done, heard or seen in the same time period. We knew each other on a personal level. We were allowed one phone call home in the evening not to exceed 10 minutes (we had but 1 business line). You'd call home say good night and unless it was an emergency, hope that you didn't get a call from outside. We all gathered at every "scheduled" break and ate meals together. Strangely 15-18 years ago we rarely shared a meal as one, we merely ate our own things at the same table at the same time. That changed almost as a reaction to the loss of time together a few ears after I started. Nonetheless we all, had nothing better to do than keep each other entertained. We constantly played practical jokes on each other, frequently gather to smoke on the bay floor (designated area at that time, when we not as health conscious). We'd practically beg our Chief to regale us with stories of jobs and his war experiences (best story teller ever!). We'd watch the same TV at night and for the morning news. We were tight. Every shift was tight and due to stricter staffing rules we had to swap more often so we had reason to be tight with other guys too. When we came to work, we left everything else at home, very little from home affected us unless it was a personal issue that had an affect on a guys' focus (impending divorce, financial crisis, death in the family) the day to day stuff had to wait until the next day, period.
Of the past 15 years we first started to get better computers, which at first only allowed games, so we started to lose a few people to video games once in a while, but for the most part it was unnoticeable. Then came the internet, and that's when we started to lose guys for hours, sometimes whole tours we'd only share time on calls or community work. Maybe here's where we started to do the communal evening meal that at least brought all shift members to the same table for an hour or so. Then we seemed to find the end of the internet and people grew bored with it. It became a nice tool, but less exciting unless looking for something specific.
Somewhere along the way, cellphones became smaller and mainstream and suddenly guys were hiding on the floor at night arguing with the wife or other people. Our home lives came to the station. Suddenly, all the day to day issues, were confronting guys while they were at work. We struggled to keep up with the changing technology with rules that tried to at least ensure actual work was unaffected, but alas, that didn't work, changes were far too rapid. Requests for emergency time off for this and that increased, personnel were often scattered to the far ends of the building quietly dealing with their home/life issues instead of watching TV, sharing stories or otherwise congregating together.
And today all the technologies collide to nearly obliterate anyone's sense that they can come to work to get away from everything else. Facebook has inserted people back into to each other lives, but on a far less personal level. People know things about each other but given they can read this and get the info indirectly they have ample opportunity to express their true views without the person being able to explain or defend themselves. Now we see far more snickering and back stabbing amongst "brothers". Many Facebook users see the guys/girls spouses opinions and actions and suddenly have their opinion on that, something that used to be somewhat off limits. Smartphones ensure all of this takes place wherever/whenever the member is. Our crews still meet at the dayroom table in the morning and share information, as soon as FD interests are gone, it generally devolves to "did you see what, so and so posted?" or "if I was married to that .....I'd ....". Most mornings there's 8-12 people sitting around, but only 2 or 3 are talking and the rest have their faces buried in the smartphones. Firefighters are far less likely to come in early for another, instead coming in at literally the last minute, still chatting away to whomever was more important at 0658 in the morning.
We still eat the evening meal together but typically it's pretty quiet as one or two people text their way through dinner. We had to make a rule that talking on personal phones was done outside the dayroom otherwise you could watch TV or remotely converse. Yep, a rule that addresses common courtesy. Still in the evening those who have gravitated back to the dayroom to watch TV, now do so with an Ipad on their lap and constantly are convinced the rest of us need to see whatever stupid thing was sent to them or posted on a Facebook page, totally oblivious that others might actually not care.
Sorry, Moose, this wasn't a positive story of Brotherhood. Maybe I'm "old" or just don't find myself interesting enough to Tweet or be on Facebook, and while I think we the Brothers and Sisters allowed this to happen, it's technology that killed Brotherhood. While this is what I see from the career side, I imagine that on the volunteer/call side, the technology has become a time drain that hurts volunteerism, as people spend far more time using the web media to stay up on all things that used to be none of their business. The hardest part is that I now realize how much I miss the more personal interaction with those I work with and the job is becoming much more of a job. I used to want to go to work, now I'm ambivalent, I'd likely take far more time off if other duties wouldn't just pile up on my desk. I find myself looking for projects to reinvigorate my attitude, and this is a common feeling among many of members with 10-12 year or more on the job.

http://www.fdnyengine63.com/news/index/layoutfile/home/layout/yes/page/18
REST IN PEACE BROTHERS!

Excellent article! Be sure and read the several related articles about D.C. Laun and the rescue attempt he made. He gave total credit to the on-duty truck co. crew for making the "grab". The man is a true hero, at age 72, to be crawling into a flat to get to the victim, without gear or SCBA. The articles show that firefighters everywhere are a true brotherhood. All of us retired guys miss the job so much- you lucky ones that are still "active"- live the dream; stay safe; and never dishonor the profession.