mfc2257

In a previous life, I worked extensively with MSP aviation, specifically Trooper 2 (Andrew's AFB) and Trooper 3 (Frederick, MD). These guys are amongst the busiest emergency services aviators in the US with Trooper 2 at one point (possibly still today) being the busiest air medical unit in the country. (On a side note, lets not forget the crew of Trooper 2 that was lost in a severe weather related crash while on approach to the AFB to meet a ground unit not long ago)
These guys are often the only folks that are in the air during adverse weather conditions. They also respond on a regular basis over state lines into PA, WV, VA, and in the District. Many times they are the only bird available to major incidents where multiple patients need to be transported. This may be one of the reasons for the larger airframe. They are truly a multi role aviation unit and thus the size of the Dauphin may not fit their growing LE, S&R, and air medical needs moving forward.
MSP Aviation Command operates 7 units with 11 airframes (one is actually based out of a tiny outcrop of WV that shoots into MD). The order is only for 6 new birds. I'm wondering if one of the Dauphins is going to stay in service or if they are eliminating a unit.

The Yorktown Fire District's southern lines are drawn in a manor that do not protect the citizens within its boundaries. I don't know many who will argue that Yorktown is a bad fire department. On the contrary, every time I've worked with them I've thought that they are professional, extremely well trained, and well staffed. At the same time, no one can argue that the membership base for the YFD is located north of the reservoir. There are areas of the district that are less than a mile from either of the Millwood stations where Millwood's membership is strong and able to respond within a timely manor. There are several areas that come to mind like the area of Shinglehouse Road in front of IBM where the YFD district begins, it's a mile from Millwood Station 1 and saturated with Millwood firefighters. On the other hand you can place a YFD substation on Rt134 a similar distance away that is in an area void of YFD firefighters. So maybe they'll get one or two members that live close, but by 2 in 2 out standards that apparatus will be useless until the remainder of their members arrive from north of the reservoir.
The answer here is to share a little more and spend a little less.
Yes as the lines are drawn, it is Yorktown's responsibility to provide protection to the ares south of the reservoir. Apparatus located in the vicinity without an abundance to staff that apparatus in a timely manor does not satisfy that responsibility. I would argue that responding from YFD HQ with a full crew that will be completely dressed and packed up when they arrive is more efficient than members driving their POV the same distance to arrive at a station and still have to don their PPV and respond in apparatus to the scene.
For many years MFC has indicated that they would respond to incidents on a dual response basis south of the reservoirs in conjunction with YFD. This same method works very well for Briarcliff and Millwood on the TSP south of Rt 100 where both are dispatched and those who are in need of aid receive it in a timely manor. I'm sure a similar arrangement can be worked out between MFC and YFD and even include a "mutual aid member" status for any YFD members who are in the area when a call comes in to respond on/with Millwood apparatus.

The Yorktown Fire District's southern lines are drawn in a manor that do not protect the citizens within its boundaries. I don't know many who will argue that Yorktown is a bad fire department. On the contrary, every time I've worked with them I've thought that they are professional, extremely well trained, and well staffed. At the same time, no one can argue that the membership base for the YFD is located north of the reservoir. There are areas of the district that are less than a mile from either of the Millwood stations where Millwood's membership is strong and able to respond within a timely manor. There are several areas that come to mind like the area of Shinglehouse Road in front of IBM where the YFD district begins, it's a mile from Millwood Station 1 and saturated with Millwood firefighters. On the other hand you can place a YFD substation on Rt134 a similar distance away that is in an area void of YFD firefighters. So maybe they'll get one or two members that live close, but by 2 in 2 out standards that apparatus will be useless until the remainder of their members arrive from north of the reservoir.
The answer here is to share a little more and spend a little less.
Yes as the lines are drawn, it is Yorktown's responsibility to provide protection to the ares south of the reservoir. Apparatus located in the vicinity without an abundance to staff that apparatus in a timely manor does not satisfy that responsibility. I would argue that responding from YFD HQ with a full crew that will be completely dressed and packed up when they arrive is more efficient than members driving their POV the same distance to arrive at a station and still have to don their PPV and respond in apparatus to the scene.
For many years MFC has indicated that they would respond to incidents on a dual response basis south of the reservoirs in conjunction with YFD. This same method works very well for Briarcliff and Millwood on the TSP south of Rt 100 where both are dispatched and those who are in need of aid receive it in a timely manor. I'm sure a similar arrangement can be worked out between MFC and YFD and even include a "mutual aid member" status for any YFD members who are in the area when a call comes in to respond on/with Millwood apparatus.

Jason was mentioned earlier with a little tongue in cheek and a smiley face about his perceived level of experience. It isn't his fault that there isn't an overwhelmingly obvious choice with more experience to fill the same position. Those four individuals who were the obvious choice were given the option to conform to an antiquated standard and/or survive toxicity in the ranks. They chose sanity....... Jason is being asked to fill a position that is typically held by individuals with more tenure under their belt.
The real issue is that 4 fine men aren't serving as officers in a strong (albeit small) fire company because of the actions a superior officer and the status quo that was given to his opinion.
Lets leave Jason out of this and if you have the opportunity to work with him on the fire ground or in training, step up and guide him so that he can become a respected leader regardless of age. Let me be clear, that I've never met him as he joined after I moved away.
Maybe instead of discussing Jason and his perceived lack of experience, we should out the senior person(s) who created this nonsense.

I will tell you that the group of young officers who stepped down are some of the finest firefighters I've ever known. They are kind individuals and diligent FF's who train hard so that when the big one arrives they are ready to give 110%. Their conflict with other members of authority in the department has played itself out many times across the fire service where hard working young members who have lots of experience from outside their home department are looked upon as a threat. They respectfully stood their ground and when the "old line" wouldn't budge, they resigned as a group so that there wouldn't be a toxic environment amongst the ranks.
These guys were the next generation of fine leaders for a small department that has always distinguished itself amongst its larger peers. Although I'm no longer living in NY, had I not chosen to move to Florida 6 years ago, I would most likely be chief of department today and would love to have each of these guys on my team of officers. Its the departments loss.

I will tell you that the group of young officers who stepped down are some of the finest firefighters I've ever known. They are kind individuals and diligent FF's who train hard so that when the big one arrives they are ready to give 110%. Their conflict with other members of authority in the department has played itself out many times across the fire service where hard working young members who have lots of experience from outside their home department are looked upon as a threat. They respectfully stood their ground and when the "old line" wouldn't budge, they resigned as a group so that there wouldn't be a toxic environment amongst the ranks.
These guys were the next generation of fine leaders for a small department that has always distinguished itself amongst its larger peers. Although I'm no longer living in NY, had I not chosen to move to Florida 6 years ago, I would most likely be chief of department today and would love to have each of these guys on my team of officers. Its the departments loss.

One of two things has happened here.
1: This guy realizes that he went off like a loose canon and now doesn't want to re- engage the conversation because he's embarrassed
Or
2: He's a total clown that has everyone else wasting their time reading his lunatic post.
Either way I'd ignore him until he unwads his panties and explains himself in detail.

Barry and the rest of the career guys commenting on this are correct. A special operations rig (Squad or Rescue) should have a "ready reserve" rig to replace or back-fill it instantly. A standard engine company doesn't need a 1:1 ratio of front line to reserve because the chances of every front line engine being out of service at once is remote.
The need for fully equipped ready reserves is not a career vs. vollie thing as many will point the discussion towards.... It's a component of call volume, geography, potential fire load, potential extrication load, combined with bread and butter work. There are plenty of vollie departments in the Northern Virginia, Southern Maryland, Baltimore, Washington metro area who have ready reserves that get used regularly. There are also several career departments who don't that REALLY need them...
One final point about harping on why departments need one rig vs another.... A topic on this board was posted some time ago about a new Seagrave tandem axle heavy rescue that was purchased by a vollie department in nowheresville Delaware I believe. Some folks mentioned what a waste it was and how could they ever use it to it's potential.... To this, I say that specing apparatus should be done based on the criteria I listed above as well as the next nearest unit that can provide a similar service and what the load of similar criteria are for it (the next available unit). If a department in the middle of nowhere covers a 20 mile stretch of highway and the nearest heavy rescue is at least that far away OR doesn't have access to the highway in a timely matter, then they are justified in buying a piece of equipment that can handle an extensive call without immediate assistance..... The direct opposite of this is what has happened in Westchester with the number of aerial devices, let alone tower ladders are piled on top of each other which is something I've taken major issue with over the past few years. Cut the number of tower ladders in half AND reduce the overall number of aerial devices by 25-35% and everyone in northern Westchester benefits. The crews of the remaining truck companies get enough work to keep their skills up and you end up with more competent truck companies, AND the taxpayers save by reducing expenses.

Barry and the rest of the career guys commenting on this are correct. A special operations rig (Squad or Rescue) should have a "ready reserve" rig to replace or back-fill it instantly. A standard engine company doesn't need a 1:1 ratio of front line to reserve because the chances of every front line engine being out of service at once is remote.
The need for fully equipped ready reserves is not a career vs. vollie thing as many will point the discussion towards.... It's a component of call volume, geography, potential fire load, potential extrication load, combined with bread and butter work. There are plenty of vollie departments in the Northern Virginia, Southern Maryland, Baltimore, Washington metro area who have ready reserves that get used regularly. There are also several career departments who don't that REALLY need them...
One final point about harping on why departments need one rig vs another.... A topic on this board was posted some time ago about a new Seagrave tandem axle heavy rescue that was purchased by a vollie department in nowheresville Delaware I believe. Some folks mentioned what a waste it was and how could they ever use it to it's potential.... To this, I say that specing apparatus should be done based on the criteria I listed above as well as the next nearest unit that can provide a similar service and what the load of similar criteria are for it (the next available unit). If a department in the middle of nowhere covers a 20 mile stretch of highway and the nearest heavy rescue is at least that far away OR doesn't have access to the highway in a timely matter, then they are justified in buying a piece of equipment that can handle an extensive call without immediate assistance..... The direct opposite of this is what has happened in Westchester with the number of aerial devices, let alone tower ladders are piled on top of each other which is something I've taken major issue with over the past few years. Cut the number of tower ladders in half AND reduce the overall number of aerial devices by 25-35% and everyone in northern Westchester benefits. The crews of the remaining truck companies get enough work to keep their skills up and you end up with more competent truck companies, AND the taxpayers save by reducing expenses.

Barry and the rest of the career guys commenting on this are correct. A special operations rig (Squad or Rescue) should have a "ready reserve" rig to replace or back-fill it instantly. A standard engine company doesn't need a 1:1 ratio of front line to reserve because the chances of every front line engine being out of service at once is remote.
The need for fully equipped ready reserves is not a career vs. vollie thing as many will point the discussion towards.... It's a component of call volume, geography, potential fire load, potential extrication load, combined with bread and butter work. There are plenty of vollie departments in the Northern Virginia, Southern Maryland, Baltimore, Washington metro area who have ready reserves that get used regularly. There are also several career departments who don't that REALLY need them...
One final point about harping on why departments need one rig vs another.... A topic on this board was posted some time ago about a new Seagrave tandem axle heavy rescue that was purchased by a vollie department in nowheresville Delaware I believe. Some folks mentioned what a waste it was and how could they ever use it to it's potential.... To this, I say that specing apparatus should be done based on the criteria I listed above as well as the next nearest unit that can provide a similar service and what the load of similar criteria are for it (the next available unit). If a department in the middle of nowhere covers a 20 mile stretch of highway and the nearest heavy rescue is at least that far away OR doesn't have access to the highway in a timely matter, then they are justified in buying a piece of equipment that can handle an extensive call without immediate assistance..... The direct opposite of this is what has happened in Westchester with the number of aerial devices, let alone tower ladders are piled on top of each other which is something I've taken major issue with over the past few years. Cut the number of tower ladders in half AND reduce the overall number of aerial devices by 25-35% and everyone in northern Westchester benefits. The crews of the remaining truck companies get enough work to keep their skills up and you end up with more competent truck companies, AND the taxpayers save by reducing expenses.

Barry and the rest of the career guys commenting on this are correct. A special operations rig (Squad or Rescue) should have a "ready reserve" rig to replace or back-fill it instantly. A standard engine company doesn't need a 1:1 ratio of front line to reserve because the chances of every front line engine being out of service at once is remote.
The need for fully equipped ready reserves is not a career vs. vollie thing as many will point the discussion towards.... It's a component of call volume, geography, potential fire load, potential extrication load, combined with bread and butter work. There are plenty of vollie departments in the Northern Virginia, Southern Maryland, Baltimore, Washington metro area who have ready reserves that get used regularly. There are also several career departments who don't that REALLY need them...
One final point about harping on why departments need one rig vs another.... A topic on this board was posted some time ago about a new Seagrave tandem axle heavy rescue that was purchased by a vollie department in nowheresville Delaware I believe. Some folks mentioned what a waste it was and how could they ever use it to it's potential.... To this, I say that specing apparatus should be done based on the criteria I listed above as well as the next nearest unit that can provide a similar service and what the load of similar criteria are for it (the next available unit). If a department in the middle of nowhere covers a 20 mile stretch of highway and the nearest heavy rescue is at least that far away OR doesn't have access to the highway in a timely matter, then they are justified in buying a piece of equipment that can handle an extensive call without immediate assistance..... The direct opposite of this is what has happened in Westchester with the number of aerial devices, let alone tower ladders are piled on top of each other which is something I've taken major issue with over the past few years. Cut the number of tower ladders in half AND reduce the overall number of aerial devices by 25-35% and everyone in northern Westchester benefits. The crews of the remaining truck companies get enough work to keep their skills up and you end up with more competent truck companies, AND the taxpayers save by reducing expenses.

That was my next question - hpw many departments treat chimney fires as an actual house fire? Take aproactive approach in case of extension, as opposed to reactive?
Or are we too "non-chalant" about them?

I've been to a fair share of chimney fires and we still find zip lock baggies of dry chem work best in most cases. We will put out the fire in the stove/fireplace, then drop the bags. We have a chimney chain we also use once the fire is extinguished. We also often use snowballs when available and find they work as well as dry chem bombs without being too much and cracking the liner like the booster reels. Last trick is the use of a cast iron pan of water in the stove: snuffs both the fire in the stove and the chimney. Thankfully our chimney runs have been way down in the last few years.
I must say I've never stretched or seen a line stretched to the roof and would be slightly concerned with charging the line while being up there, and pushing guys off? We do carry a piece of 1.75" six feet long with a fog tip in the Tower bucket for whatever need that arises, but never seen it used or asked for it on a chimney. Really just there for clearing up eaves/soffit issues.

Well south of the Mason Dixon now so past experience is all I've got....
Best chimney firefighting SOP's I've experienced were in college in Gettysburg, PA. Tried to bring some of it home to Millwood but got the usual Westchester "we know it all attitude" and barely got a set of chimney bombs (plastic baggies with dry chem) on the rigs as a result.... Rumor has it that they've been removed since.
HOWEVER I used to run 10+ serious chimney fires a year and the following always worked:
1: Make sure a truck company is there to have competent people on the roof
2: Use sand or dry chem via shovel to extinguish fire in fire box. Extinguishers only add to property damage. Leave exterior door open.
3: Place sheet of plywood over front of fireplace.
4: Have PPV in place (not necessarily running) at exterior door
4: Have crew on roof drop 1lb bags (preferably from the produce section of the grocery store because they melt easy) of dry chem into chimney.
4: Place metal plate over top of chimney, close exterior door.
5: Allow fire to suffocate in chimney.
6: Use PPV, exterior door, and roof crew to mitigate smoke condition via chimney as it is the most efficient way to expel smoke after fire has been extinguished.
7: The following should always be deployed as a backup: Uncharged line at firebox, uncharged line on roof, dry chem at fire box, chains on roof, utility rope on roof, pike pole or haligan on roof to be tied to rope, metal can to remove debris from fire box.
Chimfex, AFFF, wet water, and dry chem via pressurized extinguisher only add to property damage.
It doesn't take much to put a chimney fire out. It also doesn't take much for a chimney fire to put a house on the ground.

Well south of the Mason Dixon now so past experience is all I've got....
Best chimney firefighting SOP's I've experienced were in college in Gettysburg, PA. Tried to bring some of it home to Millwood but got the usual Westchester "we know it all attitude" and barely got a set of chimney bombs (plastic baggies with dry chem) on the rigs as a result.... Rumor has it that they've been removed since.
HOWEVER I used to run 10+ serious chimney fires a year and the following always worked:
1: Make sure a truck company is there to have competent people on the roof
2: Use sand or dry chem via shovel to extinguish fire in fire box. Extinguishers only add to property damage. Leave exterior door open.
3: Place sheet of plywood over front of fireplace.
4: Have PPV in place (not necessarily running) at exterior door
4: Have crew on roof drop 1lb bags (preferably from the produce section of the grocery store because they melt easy) of dry chem into chimney.
4: Place metal plate over top of chimney, close exterior door.
5: Allow fire to suffocate in chimney.
6: Use PPV, exterior door, and roof crew to mitigate smoke condition via chimney as it is the most efficient way to expel smoke after fire has been extinguished.
7: The following should always be deployed as a backup: Uncharged line at firebox, uncharged line on roof, dry chem at fire box, chains on roof, utility rope on roof, pike pole or haligan on roof to be tied to rope, metal can to remove debris from fire box.
Chimfex, AFFF, wet water, and dry chem via pressurized extinguisher only add to property damage.
It doesn't take much to put a chimney fire out. It also doesn't take much for a chimney fire to put a house on the ground.