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Well, I wasn't there but I monitored 60 Control from the start. What is they say about real estate: Location, Location, Location. In this case it worked against everyone. Narrow, long street access, significant distances for responding departments, poor water supply and a big head start in a large volume structure.
The size of the fire and the size of the response without any injuries I'm aware of is rather remarkable.

This is precisely what is wrong with our politicians. Wasting time on something that will go as far as the Governor's desk to be vetoed. In case you haven't noticed you elected a Cuomo as Governor. If he himself witnessed the execution style murder of someone, the most he would agree to would be life without parole.
Until the populace replaces the current crop of worthless politicians with a new majority crop of like minded individuals who actually want to address and fix the real problems there will be no constructive changes. The chances of that happening are zero, the majority of voters remain either clueless or drunk on the kool-aid.

I was a volunteer for 37 years in three different FD's and two different VAC's. Just before leaving the area my Dept. started one of those LOSAP programs. I didn't stay long enough to get vested. Wouldn't have mattered anyway. I did it for the job, the commaraderie,the good feeling you got when you intervened in someone's worst day to help them through it. If you need incentive beyond that to be 'retained' maybe you need to find something else to do.

I was a volunteer for 37 years in three different FD's and two different VAC's. Just before leaving the area my Dept. started one of those LOSAP programs. I didn't stay long enough to get vested. Wouldn't have mattered anyway. I did it for the job, the commaraderie,the good feeling you got when you intervened in someone's worst day to help them through it. If you need incentive beyond that to be 'retained' maybe you need to find something else to do.

I was a volunteer for 37 years in three different FD's and two different VAC's. Just before leaving the area my Dept. started one of those LOSAP programs. I didn't stay long enough to get vested. Wouldn't have mattered anyway. I did it for the job, the commaraderie,the good feeling you got when you intervened in someone's worst day to help them through it. If you need incentive beyond that to be 'retained' maybe you need to find something else to do.

There was a Chief in a CT town years ago that must have had a radio implant. The second the County finished the dispatch, the Chief signed on as responding. Somehow I think there must have been some lag times before he was truly in his role as Chief and initiating an effective response.
No matter what criteria 'we' use to establish these times, the only one that matters is the time between the person summoning our assistance and our ability to intervene and assist. Not a first responder getting there and holding their hand telling them more help is on the way, actually being able to provide them sufficient equipment and members to deal with their situation, be it fire, ems or other.
Anything else is just creative accounting.

There was a Chief in a CT town years ago that must have had a radio implant. The second the County finished the dispatch, the Chief signed on as responding. Somehow I think there must have been some lag times before he was truly in his role as Chief and initiating an effective response.
No matter what criteria 'we' use to establish these times, the only one that matters is the time between the person summoning our assistance and our ability to intervene and assist. Not a first responder getting there and holding their hand telling them more help is on the way, actually being able to provide them sufficient equipment and members to deal with their situation, be it fire, ems or other.
Anything else is just creative accounting.

I think most deparatments have a standard mutual aid plan for themselves. In my department, my engine company was not typically the mutual aid engine. But when our department was called for mutual aid, essentially drawing down our own response capabilities, a number of my engine company members would come down to our station to be available should a call come in.
What I find most disconcerting is the lack of coverage within the district during parade season. Its your most active members who participate in the parades and we have never had a formal plan in place to leave a crew 'on duty' while everyone is out of town for the parade. I remember one time when we had all congregated waiting to leave for the parade, looked around at who was going and collectively wondered, Uh, who's left to respond? I stayed behind with another interior firefigher/EMT and the Chief told us to respond to anything in the district whether or not it was our normal response area. We took in two calls that days, both non-events but at least there was a response to deal with it.
With a volunteer department you don't know if your response is 1, 2, 10 or 30. If your going to send apparatus and/or manpower out of town, you should ensure that your own district is covered.

Why would the assumption be that that these individuals work would be inferior? and, 'scab' is a union reference meant to inflame the situation by demeaning the replacement workers. Don't complain about the business practices or compensation of Verizon executives if you are just a service subscriber. Its none of your business what they are paid and their business strategies, including moving jobs off shore are meant to benefit the bottom line of the company and its stockholders. If your a Verizon stockholder and are unhappy with the companies performance or practives, then you have a right to complain. Verizon execs are not accountable to anyone other than its stockholders for its' practices or performance.
Start complaining to your Congressional representatives to change the laws and regulations that make it so inviting to send the jobs off shore rather than keeping them here. The corporate execs are going to do whatever makes the company the most money, thereby enriching themselves in the process. If they could do that as easily in this country as foreign countries, they would. It really is that simple, Let them make as much money here and we all benefit.
Congress (all of them, not just Democrats, not just Republicans) doesn't 'get it'. And it they don't 'get it', we won't get it either.

Some departments, particularly rural areas, don't have the luxury of waiting until their members reach 21 or 25 or whatever. We all know 18 year olds with more maturity than some 40 year olds. I think you have to deal with it
on a department by department, individual by individual basis depending on its specific needs.
Regardless of the age, training is crucial, especially with tankers as they offer their own particular operating difficulties.
One of our local departments rolled their tanker a few years back and it was being driven by one of their most mature and experienced members. It happens.

Some departments, particularly rural areas, don't have the luxury of waiting until their members reach 21 or 25 or whatever. We all know 18 year olds with more maturity than some 40 year olds. I think you have to deal with it
on a department by department, individual by individual basis depending on its specific needs.
Regardless of the age, training is crucial, especially with tankers as they offer their own particular operating difficulties.
One of our local departments rolled their tanker a few years back and it was being driven by one of their most mature and experienced members. It happens.

My point was only to highlight the overlap in services provided by different agencies to the same locale. While there is no "County Fire Department" the County has taken over the majority of dispatch, maintains the training center, the C&O Teams, the County Coordinators on mutual aid calls, maintains apparatus at the training center and I'm not 100% sure but doesn't it have a hazmat unit and other assets that respond to incidents around the County? I don't think it would take much for the County to get into the active suppression phase of firefighting, particularly if someone comes up with a cost benefit proposal that will save a cash strapped Village/Town/City some money. As our politicians are quick to say these days, "everything is on the table".

Some departments, particularly rural areas, don't have the luxury of waiting until their members reach 21 or 25 or whatever. We all know 18 year olds with more maturity than some 40 year olds. I think you have to deal with it
on a department by department, individual by individual basis depending on its specific needs.
Regardless of the age, training is crucial, especially with tankers as they offer their own particular operating difficulties.
One of our local departments rolled their tanker a few years back and it was being driven by one of their most mature and experienced members. It happens.

Forward thinking in terms of years down the road. Locally there are many examples of different agencies covering the same 'jurisdiction'. Briarcliff, for example, covers the Village of Briarcliff and some, not all, of certain unincorporated areas in the Town of Ossining and the Town of Mt. Pleasant. Other parts of these same Towns are covered by Archville, Pocantico Hills, Pleasantville, Ossining, Hawthorne and maybe some others. And, EMS coverage may be provided by other agencies.
I also lived in Millbrook, in Dutchess County. Need a cop? You could call the Millbrook PD, the Dutchess County Sheriffs or the State Police. Take your pick. Respond to a PIAA with Briarcliff and you might meet up with a Village of Briarcliff cop, a Town of Ossining (now Westchester County) cop, a Town of Mt. Pleasant cop, or a State Trooper.
The Westchester County Police overlaps many local jurisdictions and just absorbed the Town of Ossining PD. Who's next? What if the Town of Ossining wanted to 'contract' its fire service to the County instead of to the Village of Briarcliff FD and Village of Ossining FD? What if the Town of Mt. Pleasant went to the County and said instead of getting fire coverage from three or four departments it wanted the County to do it? One day push will come to shove and a transition will begin. It may take 20 years but it will eventually happen.
Where I live now, in Palm Beach County, FL., the County last year absorbed the fire and police services of the City of Lake Worth, a City that previously had its own paid police and fire. Those City cops and firefighters became County employees. And that same scenario has become commonplace here and also in other areas of the Country.
Overlapping, duplication of services is common place. Locally we have Village, Town, County and State governments and all kinds of 'quasi' governmental agencies, like taxing fire districts, all with many overlapping functions. Consolidation of the volunteer fire service or transitioning to a different form or fire service will take many years. There are generations of volunteers who hold the traditions of the volunteer service near and dear, myself included.
What the Texas model did was provide a 'guaranteed' daytime response capability to augment the volunteer companies. Anybody who monitors the scanners knows that it sometimes takes a little time to get some apparatus on the road. One day you might have several members that just happen to be at the firehouse when a call comes in, then again maybe a lot of people are out of town on a particular day. If your house is on fire should you care that the four guys approved to drive the Tanker went to the Yankee game together?
All Texas did was make sure that the call would be covered in a timely, consistent manner. Initially, a little duplication of services might save some lives or property and that's what we're supposed to be all about, aren't we?
Government wastes so much money on so many useless endeavors, I think spending some money to ensure a timely Fire/EMS response would be a good thing.

Oh boy, airing dirty laundry? Let me know! Having been an OVAC member and a Briarcliff member I've got lots of interesting and historical stories of great calls and not so great, really not so great, on both departments.
Aside from that, one of the most reassuring aspects of being a local Fire/EMS member was knowing that when, not if, but when, I or my fellow members needed assistance, a crew from Ossining, Millwood, Pleasantville, Archville or
Pocantico would be there to back us up. I'd like to think they felt the same. We've all needed back up from time to time and we've all had our cyclical membership ups and downs. Things are different now and more and more departments are having a hard time getting adequate personnel for calls, particularly on the EMS side.
So, now many departments are looking into paid day time personnel. Briarcliff went to a paid EMT two days a week because the one person that carries the bulk of the load has to go the their paid job those two days. Want to think about Briarcliff's ability to respond without that one person??? I don't.
I was also fortunate to have served with Lewisboro VAC, South Salem Fire and Croton Falls Fire. All good departments, good people, but if you learn anything after being on numerous agencies, its that no one should put a lot of energy into being critical of another department. All departments, like their members have good days and bad days and they are, for better or worse, reflected in our Fire/EMS performance.

Oh boy, airing dirty laundry? Let me know! Having been an OVAC member and a Briarcliff member I've got lots of interesting and historical stories of great calls and not so great, really not so great, on both departments.
Aside from that, one of the most reassuring aspects of being a local Fire/EMS member was knowing that when, not if, but when, I or my fellow members needed assistance, a crew from Ossining, Millwood, Pleasantville, Archville or
Pocantico would be there to back us up. I'd like to think they felt the same. We've all needed back up from time to time and we've all had our cyclical membership ups and downs. Things are different now and more and more departments are having a hard time getting adequate personnel for calls, particularly on the EMS side.
So, now many departments are looking into paid day time personnel. Briarcliff went to a paid EMT two days a week because the one person that carries the bulk of the load has to go the their paid job those two days. Want to think about Briarcliff's ability to respond without that one person??? I don't.
I was also fortunate to have served with Lewisboro VAC, South Salem Fire and Croton Falls Fire. All good departments, good people, but if you learn anything after being on numerous agencies, its that no one should put a lot of energy into being critical of another department. All departments, like their members have good days and bad days and they are, for better or worse, reflected in our Fire/EMS performance.

Oh boy, airing dirty laundry? Let me know! Having been an OVAC member and a Briarcliff member I've got lots of interesting and historical stories of great calls and not so great, really not so great, on both departments.
Aside from that, one of the most reassuring aspects of being a local Fire/EMS member was knowing that when, not if, but when, I or my fellow members needed assistance, a crew from Ossining, Millwood, Pleasantville, Archville or
Pocantico would be there to back us up. I'd like to think they felt the same. We've all needed back up from time to time and we've all had our cyclical membership ups and downs. Things are different now and more and more departments are having a hard time getting adequate personnel for calls, particularly on the EMS side.
So, now many departments are looking into paid day time personnel. Briarcliff went to a paid EMT two days a week because the one person that carries the bulk of the load has to go the their paid job those two days. Want to think about Briarcliff's ability to respond without that one person??? I don't.
I was also fortunate to have served with Lewisboro VAC, South Salem Fire and Croton Falls Fire. All good departments, good people, but if you learn anything after being on numerous agencies, its that no one should put a lot of energy into being critical of another department. All departments, like their members have good days and bad days and they are, for better or worse, reflected in our Fire/EMS performance.

I simultaneously joined my college fire department and my local fire department. At the college department we had pull up rubber boots, rubber coats and steel helmets. The local department (Briarcliff) had pull up rubber boots, polycarbonate helmets, cotton duck coats. In short order I purchased my own nomex bunker pants, nomex coat, gloves, boots, cairns new yorker helmet. A lot of years went by before the department issued PPE as good as what I bought for myself.
In the days of Plectron home recievers I also purchased my own Minitor when they first came out. You could do things like that then when you were single and working. I also had wig-wags in my POV long before they appeared on the police cars. You didn't need a blue light with a pair of wig wags back in the mid 70's.
Our scott air packs were in cases stored in a cabinet before it became standard practice to mount them and there weren't enough to go around. We also rode the rear step and sometimes 'geared up' on the hose bed while responding.
We got one of the very first hurst tools, I think in '75, when the department that ordered it couldn't write the check and our chief could. Back then fatal MVA's on our stretch of the Taconic occurred on a regular basis. That same hurst tool is still on our engine today. (Its been refurbished). When I joined we had an open cap, no doors 1948 Mack. At the time Briarcliff was all Mack. We replaced it in 1972 with a CF Mack with the first automatic transmission in our department.
The ambulances were all cadillacs then and I was among the first group of 5 EMT's in our department. When we got our first modular it was like treating someone in a ballroom by comparison. We did a bus disaster drill in Ossining one time, I was also with OVAC, and we had two patients suspended from the ceiling, one on the bench and one on the stretcher in the cadillacs. About a month later and a couple days apart we had car vs bus accidents on North Highland Avenue by the Highland Diner.
I think the best thing about the fire/EMS business is that you never forget the old memories and everyday gives you the opportunity for a new one. It never gets old, even though we do.

Yes, Seton Hall.
I've about exhausted myself on this thread. Its not going anywhere anymore. I thought the forums were more for sharing of information and ideas. However, with those like Bnechis who break apart and criticize every comment, statement or thought, I understand why there is not a more varied response or participation by others. When so much uncontestable knowledge is available from one source, there's no point in anyone else offering an idea, comment or opinion.

First, if anyone honestly analyizes this subject they will note that all firehouse are made of glass. There are very few volunteer departments that have not, at one time or another, either not been able to respond or responded inadequately. As has been noted, membership can be cyclical and the demands placed upon the volunteer today are increasing. No one should throw stones. No one should question the ethics or dedication of another department or its members.
So what is the answer? Is there any one right answer? Consolidation seems logical, but would meet with much resistance, at least for the forseeable future. Replacing volunteers with paid is financially impossible under todays economic environment. So how about automatic mutual aid? Duty crews? Or, what about a "fly engine".
I was with Briarcliff before moving to Florida. Years ago we started the "fly car" paramedic for the tri-villages of Briarcliff/Ossining/Croton. How's that working out? Well how about a volunteer duty crew for a "fly engine" on a rotation basis. Get two firefighters from Ossining, two from Briarcliff from 0700 to 1800 to staff the engine. One day or week the fly engine might be 101, then 98, then 94, then 92 etc. The crew, on duty at the appropriate firehouse, automatically responds immediately to any call in either Briarcliff or Ossining. No delay, engine on the road immediately for MVA, AFA, whatever.
If it works out, maybe Croton hooks up with Montrose or Pleasantville with Chappaqua, Thornwood and Hawthorne, etc., etc.
Now, given the size of the OFD and its apparatus I don't ever recall them not getting out and my experience in Briarcliff is that we always get out but I recall a few times when I took the engine alone and hoped I would find some help on the other end. Most of the area Depts do a fine job of handling their calls. But, wouldn't it be reassuring to know that at soon as the call is dispatched, a crew is responding?
Just another opinion.

I enjoy the incident alerts and the more specific the better. I would like a litte narrative sometimes because there isn't much detail. If your going to post the incident, a little brief description wouldn't hurt. And, for the Putnam and Dutchess, I have no clue what responded because I can't follow their number system. Same for Rockland. I know the first number is he department number but after that is it an engine, ladder, tanker? As for the geography, if someone's willing to make the effort to post it, why not have it?

One of the guys e-mailed this to me separately earlier today. I found them funny and amusing and having served in a number of volunteer departments over the years, I could, and I'm sure most everyone could, find a corresponding member(s) in their own department to compare this crew to.

The Fire/EMS community needs the same thing the budget process needs. Leaders willing to address the problems head on, without regard to whose feelings might be hurt. The only feelings that matter in Fire/EMS are those of the persons who dial 911 for assistance. I have been a member of several Fire and separate EMS departments in Westchester. Sometimes we were out in a flash, sometimes not. Though I am no longer active, I monitor 60 Control and hear the dispatches from both the County and the Departments that still self dispatch. Most times there are no issues, other times there is the necessity to re-tone, repeatedly. It happens. But it seems to be happening more often.
The most obvious first step would be consolidation of the dispatching through 60 Control utilizing SOP's and protocols established by 60 Control and the all of Westchester's Departments. I mean, really, each Department has multiple Chiefs. A series of meetings should be able to be attended by one Chief officer of each department to establish the SOP's and protocols.
Almost everything we do has changed over the years. When I started EMS was Red Cross First Aid. Then we became EMT's and now we have Paramedic fly-cars. Our fire apparatus is bigger, better, more reliable, better equipeed, TL's, CAFS, hydraulic tools, PPE, SCBA all more advanced. But aside from continued advances in our alerting system, House Sirens and Horns to "Plectrons" to pagers, we haven't adjusted for the biggest change in our Departments, the personnel. Despite the addition of women, which probably saved volunteer EMS, we still have not accepted that the increase in call volumes coupled with the requirements of training and the demands of work and family have made it more and more difficult for volunteers to maintain the level of activity that their Departments require. Consequently, more instances of re-peat tones.
Leadership addresses and solves issues.

Planning for the future. 5 yrs?, 10 yrs? Where's the bunk room? The only station re-model I recall seeing recently that addressed a bunk room was Bedford Hills and even that was an add alternate to the project.
Isn't anybody getting tired of sleeping in chairs or on the floor during stand-bys? And, sooner or later, long before the buildings being built and renovated today are obsolete, there will undoubtably be the need for some paid personnel in many of these stations.
In this case, 18,000 Sf and no allowance for a couple 10 x 12 dorm room type bunk rooms to accommodate maybe 4 persons, up to 8 with bunk beds, for an overnite stand-by?

Planning for the future. 5 yrs?, 10 yrs? Where's the bunk room? The only station re-model I recall seeing recently that addressed a bunk room was Bedford Hills and even that was an add alternate to the project.
Isn't anybody getting tired of sleeping in chairs or on the floor during stand-bys? And, sooner or later, long before the buildings being built and renovated today are obsolete, there will undoubtably be the need for some paid personnel in many of these stations.
In this case, 18,000 Sf and no allowance for a couple 10 x 12 dorm room type bunk rooms to accommodate maybe 4 persons, up to 8 with bunk beds, for an overnite stand-by?