JohnnyOV

Full investigation? Of what and by whom? To what purpose?
Who has to give the NYPD the authority to do anything besides the Mayor and City Council? Diversion of funds? "More traditional and legal areas of the NYPD"? You think something is illegal? As for the tradition remark, should we also villify the PC that authorized the change to semi-automatic pistols to replace the revolver or gave ESU M-4's and MP-5's to replace outdated weapons systems?
Impeach/remove who from office and for what?
I'd be very hestitant to use the word ONLY in a sentence about the necessity to employ deadly physical force.
The NYPD has been extremely proactive since September 11th and has, on numerous occasions, stated that it will not rely on the federal government exclusively to protect its citizenry. Why is this any different than that?
For all we really know, the NYPD plan could be to launch flocks of kamikaze geese from city parks to take down the plane like flight 1549. Seriously folks, we're getting all worked about rhetoric.

30 days, 180 days 365 days whats the correct answer?
WARNING: WITHOUT PROPER CALIBRATION YOUR GAS DETECTOR IS AS EFFECTIVE AS CARRYING A BRICK.
Every book on direct reading gas detectors lists bumb testing or calibration before every use. Many state that calibration should be done no more than every 30 days unless bump testing is done before each use. Check your manufacturers info, most also say the same.
You are sending your personnel into a potentially toxic, colorless, odorless gas and the only thing that will save their life is a working detector.
Do you check how much air is in your SCBA or do you just hope its full?
OSHA
Carbon Monoxide In Workplace Atmospheres
(Direct-Reading Monitor)
3.a. Calibration
3.1.a. According to the manufacturer, "calibration must be performed at least on a monthly basis to keep the Model 190 Datalogger within published specifications"; however, for OSHA enforcement purposes, calibrate each time the monitors are used.
Verification Of Calibration for Direct-Reading Portable Gas Monitors
OSHA Link
Gas monitoring instruments are designed to protect personnel from unseen hazards that may exist in workplace environments, including confined spaces. It is vital to worker safety that these instruments are maintained and calibrated properly.
Instrument inaccuracy due to improper or irregular calibration can lead to serious accidents. Exposure to excessive levels of toxic gas or an oxygen-deficient environment can cause workers serious illness and even death. Combustible gas explosions are often catastrophic, injuring or killing personnel and destroying property.
The International Safety Equipment Association (ISEA), founded in 1933, is a trade association for manufacturers of protective equipment, including environmental monitoring instruments. The ISEA recommends, at a minimum, verification of sensor accuracy before each day’s use.
The only way to guarantee that an instrument will detect gas accurately and reliably is to test it with a known concentration of gas. Exposing the instrument to a known concentration of test gas will show whether the sensors respond accurately and whether the instrument alarms function properly.
If the instrument’s reference point has shifted, the reading will shift accordingly and be unreliable. This is called "calibration drift" and it happens to all detectors over time. An instrument that experiences calibration drift can still measure the quantity of gas present but it cannot convert this information into an accurate numerical reading. Regular calibration with a certified standard gas concentration will update the instrument’s reference point, ensuring that the instrument will produce continued, accurate readings.
In the past, there often has been confusion regarding proper calibration procedures and frequency. To clarify this issue, the International Safety Equipment Association (ISEA) issued a position statement on instrument calibration that states, "A bump test or full calibration of direct-reading portable gas monitors should be made before each day’s use in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions, using an appropriate test gas." If the instrument fails a bump test, it must be adjusted through a full calibration before it is used.

I am standing by what I said by clarifying it. You're twisting what I was saying to make it seem like I have a gripe about the individuals on the team, which is absolutely incorrect. I will not apologize for something you have convoluted. For a second there, I thought I was going to have to wear tin foil on my head....
I am not saying they are in a direct relationship to one another. I am only saying that as of right now, a county managed department exists for an animal response team, which seems to have a plan in order and logistics set up to work effectively in an emergency. The disorder that exists and game of chance that you play when you dial 911 for an ambulance however, is the exact opposite. Yesterday 3 different departments couldn't fill a crew for a fall victim....
I'll take an aspirin and drive myself to the hospital, I'll have better chance then someone actually showing up and getting definitive help around this area.

I'm going to have to report you to ASPCA for cruelty to animals. Its not right to beat a dead horse...

Thanks for the clarification Capt. I've dealt with this in the classroom in college, just never out on the streets.
I guess we can revert back to the question of "why is thh state even introducing it in the first place?"

Agencies cannot get an ambulance out for a possible heart attack, and we have entire teams devoted to helping animals? Priorities people.....

Never had a problem with the Gamewells

Since you're in a rural part of the county, and I'll assume you have a very small operating budget, consider purchasing a Drager multi gas detector. Their sensors last 5 years, as compared to other companies 1.5 years. They are also very easy to use and work very well. It is what we use at work to test for toxic gases in the labs.
We use the Scott 4 gas meter in the FD which requires calibration every 30 days, and a sensor replacement every 1.5 years.

Route 6 and Lexington is a fantastically central location. By way of Route 6 (east/west) and Lexington Ave (north/south), you really couldn't pick a better spot even if you tried.

Thanks for the clarification Capt. I've dealt with this in the classroom in college, just never out on the streets.
I guess we can revert back to the question of "why is thh state even introducing it in the first place?"

ASSOCIATION OF FIRE CHIEFS PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE.
Sep 20, 2011
0911-38
In June of this year, the Hazardous Materials Reimbursement bill on FASNY's Legislative Scorecard passed both houses of the NYS Legislature. This bill has now been delivered to the Governor for his consideration. The bill (S.5444/A.7672), sponsored by Senator Zeldin and Assemblyman Sweeney, permits reimbursement for costs associated with the clean up of hazardous materials spills.
Sounds good so far, but look at these excerpts from the legislation:
"An act to amend the environmental conservation law, in relation to providing reimbursement to fire companies for costs associated with responding to releases of hazardous materials"
"Reimbursement shall be limited to expendable materials in the response, and be limited to $10,000."
My link
This legislation has been proposed by FASNY each legislative session since at least 2004
Why is this BAD Legislation?
1) Currently Federal law has allowed full cost recovery for the last 31 years.
TITLE 42--THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND WELFARE
CHAPTER 103--COMPREHENSIVE ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSE, COMPENSATION, AND LIABILITY (CERCLA)has allowed billing since December 1980.
Was ammended by Superfund Amendments & Reauthorization Act (SARA) in 1986.
2) Why limit it to "expendable materials" and $10,000..............The Federal Law says ALL Costs associated.
So if a FD responds and gets 10 sets of turnouts contaminated (and the product cant be deconned) You get $10,000 and your tax payers get to pay the other $25,000 - $40,000. What if you lose a rig?
The spiller is required to have insurance, let them pay for their mistake.
Note: We have had bills that were well over $100,000 and without billing many depts can not maintain their capabilities.
Please advise the Governor's office if you think he should veto this bill by calling 518-474-8390 or email:
NYS Governor Contact Page
Thank You

Same thing they were thinking when they merged the Sheriff's office, and the Fire Department.

Same thing they were thinking when they merged the Sheriff's office, and the Fire Department.

I attended Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, which I am suspecting you are too right now, and originally went to fly airplanes. I stopped flying, not because of a medical issue, but rather what appeared to be a decrease in piloting jobs upon my eventual graduation. I switched over to occupational safety and have enjoyed this path ever since.
There are hundreds of related aviation jobs out there that do not require flying. ERAU had hundreds of programs ranging from aviation maintenance, weather, NTSB and aviation safety, to human factors in aviation, that it is quite possible to find your niche without having to command an aircraft. While attending school, I got my EMT in NY over my sophomore summer, and worked as an EMT at Daytona Speedway as a track/jump medic for the duration of my schooling down there. I know plenty of guys, who love the world of EMS/firefighting, but went to school to pursue other degrees, while obtaining their initial medical training. God forbid something happens where you cannot function as a public servant anymore, or, you unfortunately never get hired off a list, you still have your degree which you can fall back on and make your living off of that. Best decision I ever made, was to get my 4 year degree in something completely unrelated to firefighting and EMS, and enter the (unfortunate, as I would MUCH rather be out busting cajones and helping my community) world of Corporate.
Give yourself something to fall back onto in case what you really want to do, doesn't work out.

Same thing they were thinking when they merged the Sheriff's office, and the Fire Department.

I didn't even see JFLYNN had wrote that at the time, as I had been typing this out for a while since I'm at work. I wont speak for the Chief, but I interpreted what you were saying as a "we're not going to have a written plan in place, we'll just wing it as the incident progresses and hope it works."
I totally agree that sizing up an incident is imperative to a positive outcome. If we look back at the initial posters statement/question, I think that we can both agree that filling an engine with 8 guys and a chief's car with another 6 and sending them to another fire is a little ridiculous. There are so many different paths that we can go down with this, such as minimum/maximum staffing for M/A, % of available manpower required to remain at home to respond M/A, etc etc. Biggest thing I hope we can both agree on is that, if you dont' have a ratio in favor of your department to that going M/A at the time, you stay back and protect your town.
And yes, if conditions warrant an aggressive interior attack, we will make that push.
I should have been more clear, but that last part was not aimed directly at you. It was more of a broad statement for departments in general. Listen to a scanner on a daily basis and you can easily tell who has their stuff together, and who does not.

Same thing they were thinking when they merged the Sheriff's office, and the Fire Department.

Same thing they were thinking when they merged the Sheriff's office, and the Fire Department.

Same thing they were thinking when they merged the Sheriff's office, and the Fire Department.

Same thing they were thinking when they merged the Sheriff's office, and the Fire Department.

I didn't even see JFLYNN had wrote that at the time, as I had been typing this out for a while since I'm at work. I wont speak for the Chief, but I interpreted what you were saying as a "we're not going to have a written plan in place, we'll just wing it as the incident progresses and hope it works."
I totally agree that sizing up an incident is imperative to a positive outcome. If we look back at the initial posters statement/question, I think that we can both agree that filling an engine with 8 guys and a chief's car with another 6 and sending them to another fire is a little ridiculous. There are so many different paths that we can go down with this, such as minimum/maximum staffing for M/A, % of available manpower required to remain at home to respond M/A, etc etc. Biggest thing I hope we can both agree on is that, if you dont' have a ratio in favor of your department to that going M/A at the time, you stay back and protect your town.
And yes, if conditions warrant an aggressive interior attack, we will make that push.
I should have been more clear, but that last part was not aimed directly at you. It was more of a broad statement for departments in general. Listen to a scanner on a daily basis and you can easily tell who has their stuff together, and who does not.

If you want to play the odds game, you should get into politics, not the fire service. Crossing your fingers and hoping for the best is a hell of a way to operate. I can recall many times, my department alone has had numerous calls, possible fires, extrication and dive jobs in a matter of an hour, and there wasn't even inclement weather occurring. I can count even more times I've heard other departments trying to handle 2 or 3 major incidents at the same time. It happens, quite frequently, and its not time to play chance games.
Why even relocate apparatus to the effected department, since the odds of going on an additional run are so small? You're not playing poker, or blackjack where you can almost determine what your next hand is going to be based off statistics. It is strictly, "just something that happens" if a run comes in. You need to know exactly what your next play will be and one up the fire service god's before they get to you, if you will.
My point is, BE PREPARED to handle any number of major incidents at one time, not just the one you're currently operating at.

3-4 Interior firefighters and an officer should suffice for any type of request for an engine or truck, whether it be a relocate or a deployment. If departments wanted extra manpower when requesting units, they would call for extra manpower. When special units are called such as Rescues, manpower should be assessed and deployed based off the scale and type of the incident. A request for an additional hurst tool is quite different then a request for a car pinned under a overturned semi-trailer.
Departments that are requesting an additional 3 engines and 2 trucks for a room and contents fire, really need to think about why are they requesting so many resources on an initial assignment, that by the time they arrive on scene, will more then likely not even be needed. A department should be able to handle a bread and butter operation by themselves, with no outside help. However, we all know that man power is down, so an outside FASTeam, and a relocate is not a bad thing, and as always, if you don't need em, turn em around. Certain (not all) Battalion COORDINATORS (note they are NOT chiefs) also need to realize a) when they are stripping entire departments for a single job, and branch out past their own battalion and b ) the scene is not theirs to command.
I'll use my department as an example: on any initial report of a structure fire, A FASTeam is immediately dispatched along with our department, regardless of whether it is in the hydrant or non-hydrant district. Our M/A departments were asked if they were OK with this policy before it went into inception, and they had no problem providing a FASTeam on the initial dispatch, rather then the 10-75 assignment.
In the hydrant district, a working 10-75 brings in the BC, VAC/Medic, and the relocate of 1x1 to our HQ. Each additional alarm brings in an additional FAST, transfers the relocated 1x1 to the scene, and relocates another 1x1. 2nd alarm brings in a Cascade, and 3rd Alarm brings in the Field Com unit. The non hydrant provides the same, but with 3 tankers to the scene and additional engine for the draft or dump site. Our non-hydrant district has almost no access for 1 ladder, so after the first relocate of a ladder, 2nd alarms and above only bring in an additional engine on the relocate as the truck will remain on stand-by for the duration of the incident for the rest of the district.
There are a few specialty boxes that provide a different type of response based off the building type and hazards involved however. Each box was set up to try and not pull more then 1 apparatus from each department for the entire duration of the incident, regardless of the scale of size (3rd alarm in our residential, 4th alarm in our commercial district), however in some cases, it was impossible. Department Chiefs were contacted to see if they had any problem sending 2 pieces of equipment and manpower to a scene if that was the case, and those who are on the box, had no doubts they could cover both their district and provide aid to ours with multiple units pulled.
http://www.yorktownf...ent/operations/ / http://maps.google.c...08&source=embed

I didn't even see JFLYNN had wrote that at the time, as I had been typing this out for a while since I'm at work. I wont speak for the Chief, but I interpreted what you were saying as a "we're not going to have a written plan in place, we'll just wing it as the incident progresses and hope it works."
I totally agree that sizing up an incident is imperative to a positive outcome. If we look back at the initial posters statement/question, I think that we can both agree that filling an engine with 8 guys and a chief's car with another 6 and sending them to another fire is a little ridiculous. There are so many different paths that we can go down with this, such as minimum/maximum staffing for M/A, % of available manpower required to remain at home to respond M/A, etc etc. Biggest thing I hope we can both agree on is that, if you dont' have a ratio in favor of your department to that going M/A at the time, you stay back and protect your town.
And yes, if conditions warrant an aggressive interior attack, we will make that push.
I should have been more clear, but that last part was not aimed directly at you. It was more of a broad statement for departments in general. Listen to a scanner on a daily basis and you can easily tell who has their stuff together, and who does not.

It's true that most department may only run a few fires per year - and the odds of them happening at the same time as a neighboring district is minimal. But it does happen.
Case #1
9/15/04
The Croton FD was dispatched to a residential alarm on Truesdale Drive. Moments later, PD updated it as a working structure fire. Due to the large size of the home, the stone walls and multiple roofs encountered, more Mutual Aid than usual was needed.
Operating: Croton (All units), Ossining (Engine & FAST), Yorktown FAST, Bedford Hills FAST, Buchanan Cascade. An Engine from Montrose covers Croton.
Less than 90 minutes after this, Montrose is dispatched to a residential alarm on Mountain Side Trail. When the Chief arrives he find a working structure fire. The "Tri-Village" is activated, an he has an Engine from Buchanan and Verplanck respond to the scene. The primary FAST (Croton) is operating at their own fire, so Mohegan is called. The Montrose Engine in Croton's quarters responds back, moving Briarcliff into Croton. A Cascade unit from Continental Village (R39) is called in place of the usual Buchanan Cascade unit. Additional assistance from Peekskill (FAST) and the Montrose VAFD are also called to assist.
Case #2
4/7/05
Ossining FD has a fire in a 3-story townhouse. Original request is for a Croton FAST. Once it's realized that the fire is advancing, the IC puts Croton's FAST to work and calls another FAST (Yorktown) and a TL from Croton. A Cascade (R36) from Millwood and an additional FAST from Chappaqua are added a little later for relief.
15 minutes later...
Irvington FD has a fire in a mansion on El Rietro Drive. The IC calls for a FAST from Dobbs Ferry and an Engine from Tarrytown. Additional help is needed, so the IC later calls a 2nd FAST from Ardsley, an Engine from Elmsford and a Ladder from Tarrytown.
To cover all of these departments, the following relocates were deployed:
To Croton: TL8 from Montrose for Croton AND Ossining.
To Ossining: E94 from Briarcliff, E260 from Pleasantville and TL38 from Sleepy Hollow.
To Tarrytown: TL21 from Elmsford.
To Sleepy Hollow: TL49 from Valhalla.
To Valhalla: L47 from North White Plains for Valhalla AND Hawthorne (TL12 OOS).
There's more instances like this in other parts of the county over the past few years.
I'm not much of a gambling man, but I do know Mr. Murphy is usually lurking in the shadows.
If any department is going to send resources Mutual Aid - bottom line - make sure you have sufficient coverage in your home field, even if it has to come from another department.