JohnnyOV

This should really be addressed at the County level. One department's accountability is far different then their neighbors. The entire system in the county is flawed. When their is so much M/A that occurs, wouldn't it make sense to actually use a system that is interopertable... much like the radios?

Ladies and Gentlemen, in this particular instance, Connecticut wins.

Unfortunately I see this having a greater impact on career departments where staffing is relatively cut and dry. The vollies will be able to say that they've got 5 dozen active volunteers that in reality show up 20 minutes after the call is over and get credit and their free job shirt thus meeting the standards.

I know I answered this in another thread for you, but I'll do it again here because I feel this pertains more to this thread then apparatus response...
In all honesty , you could have 8 pieces of apparatus on scene, but if you only have 8 firefighters, you're efforts are going to be almost futile. Manpower is what is needed most, not the big shiny toolbox.

And Chief Flynn beat me to the punch...

edit 2: I should also add that for M/A runs, the rig will not leave the station until 4 interior qualified firefighters (or 4 FAST members if it's a FASTeam) are on it.

This is an interesting thread. IMO it really does a lot to demonstrate the mindset held by many members of the Fire Service in this region which is such a disservice to those we are sworn to protect and to our own fellow Firefighters....with the exception of helicoppers question regarding manpower (and he is a cop, not a Firefighter), and one other question and answer in regard to White Plains manpower, the whole thread so far is all about how many apparatus respond, with no mention of personnel.
Guys, Firefighters put out fires...Firefighters who are adequately trained and certified for interior firefighting and physically capable. A certain amount and type of apparatus, of course, is necessary, however, listing how many apparatus respond to structure fires is not only worthless in terms of assessing a department's capabilities, it is misleading.

Kid, just listen to the chief.
I appreciate that you like fire trucks. I like fire trucks too. I like getting paid to ride on them and I like looking at pictures of them on Emtbravo. I also appreciate that you're new. I was once new as well, in fact it wasn't that long ago. Someday, you might be sitting in a fire truck and look around the cab of the big fancy engine they bought you and see a 65 year old man driving and a 80 year old fire police in the back. Or you might be fortunate enough to get on a paid job and have one other guy with you or you might even be by yourself. And you will not care how many red trucks are coming but rather what the hell are you going to do with what you've got.

239* TO 60 CONTROL , release Eng58 and I will be holding my self till Con Ed shows ! 10-4 239* holding your self !

I know I answered this in another thread for you, but I'll do it again here because I feel this pertains more to this thread then apparatus response...
In all honesty , you could have 8 pieces of apparatus on scene, but if you only have 8 firefighters, you're efforts are going to be almost futile. Manpower is what is needed most, not the big shiny toolbox.

And Chief Flynn beat me to the punch...

edit 2: I should also add that for M/A runs, the rig will not leave the station until 4 interior qualified firefighters (or 4 FAST members if it's a FASTeam) are on it.

To any reported structure fires (my observations)...
Larchmont: 2 Engines (E35, E34), 1 Ladder (TL7), 1 Rescue (R1) + Paid Chief. The paid apparatus have 1 FF per rig.
Town of Mamaroneck: 2 Engines (E51, E37/36), 1 Ladder (L19), 1 Rescue (R6) + Volunteer Chiefs. Paid apparatus (1 Engine, Ladder, Rescue) have 1 FF per rig.
Village of Mamaroneck: 4 Engines (E38,E40, E41, E42), 1 Ladders (TL20) and 1 Utilty (U9) + volunteer chiefs
Harrison: 3 Engines (E13,E10, E12), 1 Ladder (TL24), 1 Rescue (R19)+ volunteer chiefs. Paid apparatus (1 engine, 1 Ladder) have 1 or 2 FF's per rig
Bedford Hills (Hydrant District): 2 Engines (E199, E198), 1 Ladder (TL57), 1 Rescue (R10) + volunteer chiefs
Bedford Hills (Non-Hydrant District): 2 Engines (E199, E198), 1 Ladder (TL57), 1 Tanker (T5), 1 Rescue (R10) + volunteer chiefs
Mt Kisco: 2 Engines, 1 Ladder (TL14), 1 Rescue (R31) + volunteer chiefs
Fairview: 2 Engines, 1 Ladder (L1), 1 Rescue(R3) + paid chiefs
Purchase: 2 Engines (E238, 240), 1 Ladder (TL53), 1 rescue (R30) + volunteer chiefs
Yorktown (Hydrants): 2/3 Engines, 1 Ladder, 1 Rescue, BHFD or PFD FAST + volunteer chiefs
Yorktown (non-hydrants): 2/3 Engines, 1 Ladder (if able), 1 Tanker, 1 Rescue, BHFD or PFD FAST + volunteer chiefs
Yorktown FD has a cool mapping feature on their website which states their Mutual aid alarm assignments, based on past fires. Check it out here.

I know I answered this in another thread for you, but I'll do it again here because I feel this pertains more to this thread then apparatus response...
In all honesty , you could have 8 pieces of apparatus on scene, but if you only have 8 firefighters, you're efforts are going to be almost futile. Manpower is what is needed most, not the big shiny toolbox.

And Chief Flynn beat me to the punch...

edit 2: I should also add that for M/A runs, the rig will not leave the station until 4 interior qualified firefighters (or 4 FAST members if it's a FASTeam) are on it.

I know I answered this in another thread for you, but I'll do it again here because I feel this pertains more to this thread then apparatus response...
In all honesty , you could have 8 pieces of apparatus on scene, but if you only have 8 firefighters, you're efforts are going to be almost futile. Manpower is what is needed most, not the big shiny toolbox.

And Chief Flynn beat me to the punch...

edit 2: I should also add that for M/A runs, the rig will not leave the station until 4 interior qualified firefighters (or 4 FAST members if it's a FASTeam) are on it.

Same as regular Iorns, the smart ff takes the axe and strikes the halligan, while the brave ff holds it.
Note: if they know what they are doing, the head of the fork has been squared off, the the smart ff, just slide the axe down the shaft to strike the head.

The snozzberries taste like snozzberries.

It all depends on the situation presented at the time. Our district is almost 37 square miles big, so expecting everyone to show up to the firehouse to respond is not only pointless, it would delay our response, especially since we only have 2 stations (insurance co audits actually recommended 5 stations). Anyways, a majority of the time we have guys hanging around the main firehouse, enough to get 2 pieces on the road with 2 or 3 guys on the rigs each. Sometimes there are full apparatus, and sometimes we're rolling driver only. Right now, it's just the nature of the beast and we're actively trying to address that problem.
People in the rigs will get assignments as we ride to the scene, and prioritize each function depending on the staffing level. People who arrive on scene in their POV will meet with the IC and get their assignment from there.
If I'm responding driver only, there are about 1000 things going through my mind on what needs to be done when I arrive. If I have a crew with me, the guy sitting in the right seat makes all those decisions, and I know that as the MPO, I'll be operating the pump, flaking out line, securing a water source, throwing ladders, basically any function on the outside that needs to be accomplished if we arrive with minimum manpower.
I wont hide behind a smoke screen and say that manpower is great 100% of the time. Just like every other department (even if you refuse to admit it) we're dealt with a crappy hand sometimes. It's how you overcome those obstacles in the first 10 seconds, prioritize what needs to be done first and effectively accomplish those tasks in a short time period.

It all depends on the situation presented at the time. Our district is almost 37 square miles big, so expecting everyone to show up to the firehouse to respond is not only pointless, it would delay our response, especially since we only have 2 stations (insurance co audits actually recommended 5 stations). Anyways, a majority of the time we have guys hanging around the main firehouse, enough to get 2 pieces on the road with 2 or 3 guys on the rigs each. Sometimes there are full apparatus, and sometimes we're rolling driver only. Right now, it's just the nature of the beast and we're actively trying to address that problem.
People in the rigs will get assignments as we ride to the scene, and prioritize each function depending on the staffing level. People who arrive on scene in their POV will meet with the IC and get their assignment from there.
If I'm responding driver only, there are about 1000 things going through my mind on what needs to be done when I arrive. If I have a crew with me, the guy sitting in the right seat makes all those decisions, and I know that as the MPO, I'll be operating the pump, flaking out line, securing a water source, throwing ladders, basically any function on the outside that needs to be accomplished if we arrive with minimum manpower.
I wont hide behind a smoke screen and say that manpower is great 100% of the time. Just like every other department (even if you refuse to admit it) we're dealt with a crappy hand sometimes. It's how you overcome those obstacles in the first 10 seconds, prioritize what needs to be done first and effectively accomplish those tasks in a short time period.

Just another example of what's wrong with the system. You're right. A lot of training can be accomplished on these calls but most people just want to get their name on the check-list of who showed up for other reasons than training or firefighting and then disappear back into the woodwork.
Wrong answer. If you have the time for the alarm, you have time for 20-30 minutes of useful training. That's all that this would take and we used to run drills like this all the time. It can be a very valuable experience for those who show up and can actually increase participation because its no longer just a wasted trip it's training too. To position apparatus, receive assignments, deploy with appropriate equipment, TIC the building, and even throw up the stick/bucket doesn't require a lot of time or preparation. Just do what you'd do if the place was on fire. If you don't have time for that you shouldn't have responded in the first place.
The problem with doing this exclusively on drill nights is there are far more people (usually) and the same people will push to do all the work while the wall-flowers sit by and don't get the experience. On the AFA call you probably have 1/2 or 1/3 the number of people and some of the wall-flowers will have to be your go-getters. That's also a realistic issue for the officers giving out assignments. Giving out assignments is easy on drill night because you've got so many people but at the actual alarm when you've got 6 instead of 16 it can be a real challenge.
You don't have to put people on the roof, just throw the ladder or bucket up and have guys go up and see what kind of roof it actually is? Is it covered with wires that will be hazards to you during a real fire? Is it covered with heavy equipment like AC units and the like? Or is it a truss roof that may be susceptible to collapse? Do all your people know that already? I doubt it. TIC the roof and identify what equipment is operating.
If the occupant/owner doesn't like you doing a pre-plan they need an education and that can be the Chief's job while you're there.
What do they say about an ounce of prevention?
3 million dollars of apparatus on the road or in the firehouse. What's the difference?
The fuel cost is budgeted already so the only thing you're expending is a little time.
One of the biggest complaints I used to hear is not enough training, not enough training or stupid training that doesn't do us any good. If apparatus placement, equipment orientation and deployment, and small unit tactics isn't valuable I don't know what is.
To all those who say they don't have time, I say: "train the way you fight, fight the way you train". If you're conditioning everyone to believe that responses are a waste of time they're not going to be prepared when they roll up and have fire rolling out the windows.
There are very few excuses NOT to train when the opportunity presents itself. You're responding anyway, might as well make it worth the trip.
All these people with all these excuses not to train. It's sad and its scary. With that attitude I doubt you're getting enough training to begin with.

Then do something about it. Insist that FASNY lobbies and NYS follows through increasing the training requirements of volunteer firemen. We're our own worst enemy sometimes.

Then do something about it. Insist that FASNY lobbies and NYS follows through increasing the training requirements of volunteer firemen. We're our own worst enemy sometimes.

This is why the dual dispatch with a FASTeam was implemented. Get them started, and if you don't need them, turn em around. All of our M/A teams were more then willing to try this out.
Yorktown's own FAST team response protocol is if we cannot field a crew (minimum 4 FASTeam qualified members [which is pages long in our SOGs]) in 3 minutes and out the door in 5, we will notify 60-control and the IC we cannot field a FASTeam. If we know we cannot field it sooner then that, we'll notify them immediately. If we have the manpower(minimum 4 interior firefighters), but not a FASTeam, we will notify the IC that we can send either an engine or truck, if the IC so chooses to accept. We have a no retone policy, and honestly feel others lives are more important then our ego's
As "buffy" as this sounds, our guys are very good at "getting on the horn" the moment a neighboring department gets called to a fire, and sending out mass texts and group chats (for those who have smart phones) to see who's around to respond. We sometimes know before the first due company arrives on scene, if we'll be able to field a crew or not should we be called. Members normally start making their way to HQ to lesson the time even more as the texts are going out.
No
4 out of the first 5 arriving firemen are FASTeam members.
3 in and about 20 outside was being utilized.

I had the privilege of being Jeff's instructor on several occasions and can tell you he is one of the most dedicated and motivated students I've had and is a very capable firefighter who earned every single certification he has by far exceeding the minimum standard. I would work with Jeff any day.
To simply put it..you have to meet the standards. We can debate what the "minimum" standard is, but everyone who enters a course, I can assure you at a "minimum" is meeting the standard of the curriculum set forth by NY State and the NFPA.

I wish some of the patients filmed the local VAC... Walking MVA pts to the car who were involved in major MOIs, never using a KED in the years I've been involved, walking up to scenes with no equipment at all, sitting on a scene when the patient was loaded 10-15 minutes prior into the bus. Might convince them to actually do their job the right way.
As an EMT, I would have no problem with a patient or news crew filming me, why, because you can bet your arse I'll be following protocol. Have always, and will always continue to do that. Your skills should be fined tuned enough that you're completely comfortable operating in front of a camera. If you're going to freeze up and second guess yourself, then maybe you need to find another profession / volunteer area.
edit: also, I doubt it would be a HIPAA violation if the pt is filming, and releases the footage on their own accord. The HCP is not the one releasing the PT's info, the actual PT is.

I refer you to the 1st amendment... and statter911.
http://statter911.com/2011/12/18/what-gives-no-outrage-over-ghoulish-photographers-shooting-bodies-has-something-changed-in-year-since-connecticut-trooper-blasted-cameraman/
As much as I disagree with the the filming of accidents, patients, and the operations, the constitution allows for the freedom of the press to film and report what they want that is open to pubic viewing. Morally and ethically is it OK, probably not. There has been incidents of firefighters and EMS workers getting fired over the release of medical photos and videos, but again, we're held accountable under HIPAA.
The only thing that can effectively keep the news out of a certain area, is to set up a secure zone and consider it a crime scene or active investigation site, thus prohibiting the reporters from entering the restricted area. Other then that, it is fair game.

Absolutely heart crushing video... http://statter911.com/2011/12/19/firefighter-in-flames-bails-out-of-brooklyn-brownstone-five-from-fdny-injured-in-crown-heights-fire/
Speedy recovery to the injured firefighters.

Absolutely heart crushing video... http://statter911.com/2011/12/19/firefighter-in-flames-bails-out-of-brooklyn-brownstone-five-from-fdny-injured-in-crown-heights-fire/
Speedy recovery to the injured firefighters.

Absolutely heart crushing video... http://statter911.com/2011/12/19/firefighter-in-flames-bails-out-of-brooklyn-brownstone-five-from-fdny-injured-in-crown-heights-fire/
Speedy recovery to the injured firefighters.