JJB531

Well it depends. If a lift assist is classified as a rescue, I would say FD because they really are the only ones qualified to handle such an intense task.... I'm only kidding people! Just trying to make light of the recent discussions and bickering, so smile!
In all seriousness I would say EMS because a lot of these lift assists involve underlying, sometimes complex medical conditions that really should be evaluated by an EMS crew. It's in the best interest of the patient, and could prevent EMS having to go back once an underlying condition exacerbates into something worse.

I understand your thought reasoning, and it's not necessarily incorrect. As a medic the last thing I want to do is go to a lift assist because most don't require ALS intervention, but...
#1 - we can't always play what-if's. I could turn around and say what if the lift assist patient did require ALS intervention and now you just delayed the medic 15 minutes because "what if a more serious call comes in", and yet that call never comes; is that fair to the person who called 911 for our services? I've personally responded to a number of lift assists that ended up being cardiac arrests.
#2 - why do we send medics to every call? Who says we have to send the medic to a lift assist? If proper EMD is done, and no flags are raised for a potential for this to be ALS, then we may be able to get away without sending an ALS unit and keeping that unit in-service for the "what if".
What if we take an FD rig out of service and a fire comes in? What if we take a patrol car out of service and a robbery occurs? We can keep on "what-if'ing" but someone's gotta pick grandma up off the floor.
We can only treat one patient at a time, one call at a time. As EMS managers, they need to ensure that their systems run efficiently with the manpower and staffing levels they have to work with without short-changing the public who deserves the services they require.

So.... We should leave the elderly woman who's incapacitated on her bedroom floor there to rot? Where do you volley/work? I want to make sure I don't have family that lives there.

Well it depends. If a lift assist is classified as a rescue, I would say FD because they really are the only ones qualified to handle such an intense task.... I'm only kidding people! Just trying to make light of the recent discussions and bickering, so smile!
In all seriousness I would say EMS because a lot of these lift assists involve underlying, sometimes complex medical conditions that really should be evaluated by an EMS crew. It's in the best interest of the patient, and could prevent EMS having to go back once an underlying condition exacerbates into something worse.

Well it depends. If a lift assist is classified as a rescue, I would say FD because they really are the only ones qualified to handle such an intense task.... I'm only kidding people! Just trying to make light of the recent discussions and bickering, so smile!
In all seriousness I would say EMS because a lot of these lift assists involve underlying, sometimes complex medical conditions that really should be evaluated by an EMS crew. It's in the best interest of the patient, and could prevent EMS having to go back once an underlying condition exacerbates into something worse.

What is wrong with you, I hope you don't think you represent every FDNY member on this board, if you do it's a sad day for FDNY (I am NOT FDNY) You are an embarrassment to every FDNY member and every fire fighter EVERYBODYGOES it’s time you followed them and went yourself

I can't understand why you are getting so defensive and taking this so personal. The idea of this was to be an intelligent discussion, not a foot stomping tirade. I come to work, do my job, and go home. Thank you for taking care of the ESU injured member, I think anyone, PD or FD would provide these care for eachother in that same situation. We may wear different patches, but we're all human.

You're not serious are you? Do you honestly think money is the motivating factor behind any professional who desires to share his knowledge and experience? Since you know everybody, why don't you go down and ask Bob Morris that and see what kind of reaction you get.
It is people with attitudes like yours who would turn this site into another worthless waste of time rant. Everybodygoes....just go. lol

The bottom line is you can do all the Monday morning quarterbacking you want, but unless you were the I/C at this incident or were there and witnessed some event that grossly jeopardized firefighter or the State Police Officers safety, you have no right to call his judgment to utilize the officers into question.

Did anyone take into consideration it was Christmas Eve and that probably contributed to the manpower shortage? It’s easy to say pick up the radio and call for help, how far is the help and how long is it going to take to get them there. What was the I/C faced with at the time? It is quite obvious the Ancram Chief and department were very much appreciative of the assistance rendered by the State Police in the mitigation of this incident.

Instead of bickering about doing each others jobs, how about being pro active and working together to enhance the protection of life and property of the “tax payers” we serve. I can tell you when police and fire want to, they can work very well together to accomplish this. Greenburgh Police and Fairview Fire have been working together for years with EMS and Technical Rescue providing the best emergency services available.

The Ancram Fire Chief should be commended for having the guts to employ the assistance on the State Police, and the State Police should be commended for assisting.

I can't understand why you are getting so defensive and taking this so personal. The idea of this was to be an intelligent discussion, not a foot stomping tirade. I come to work, do my job, and go home. Thank you for taking care of the ESU injured member, I think anyone, PD or FD would provide these care for eachother in that same situation. We may wear different patches, but we're all human.

Convoluted? Seemed pretty concise and in-line to myself and a couple other members here. Wikipedia... Hardly... It's from taking the time to educate myself so when discussions like this take place I can at least articulate my stance with some level of insight and maturity instead of sounding like someone who's not getting his way and resorting to personal attacks.

Convoluted? Seemed pretty concise and in-line to myself and a couple other members here. Wikipedia... Hardly... It's from taking the time to educate myself so when discussions like this take place I can at least articulate my stance with some level of insight and maturity instead of sounding like someone who's not getting his way and resorting to personal attacks.

I can't understand why you are getting so defensive and taking this so personal. The idea of this was to be an intelligent discussion, not a foot stomping tirade. I come to work, do my job, and go home. Thank you for taking care of the ESU injured member, I think anyone, PD or FD would provide these care for eachother in that same situation. We may wear different patches, but we're all human.

And yet everyone (including myself) applauded members of the FDNY for backing up and assisting NYPD officers in Staten Island who were faced with a large unruly crowd.
Who's guarding the hen house? The other Troopers working. Those Troopers most likely would have been assigned to the fire scene anyways.
If a Firefighter taking one of my guns to help me in a firefight saves my ass or someone else's, I'm good with it. These Troopers didn't take the hose from anyone's hands, they were asked by the Fire Chief to help. Any cop would have stepped up and did the right thing.
The simple fact is web the crap hits the fan, emergency service providers step up and do the right thing for the communities we serve and for our fellow emergency service providers. These Troopers were not tasked with an interior attack, they were tasked with spraying some water on a fire from well outside the structure because the FD didn't have the manpower. If I was a homeowner, I'd be pretty damn grateful.

This is akin to realzing how badly you're losing the game that you take your ball, call it quits and run home pouting.
The most informative, articulate and concise post on here and you call it "long winded". If you are who you say you are, truly a disappointment.

That's an interesting morphing of this conversation into a bigger, unspoken truth about this website. Why is it that EMTBravo has had such in-depth investigation, observation, reporting of fire department related issues?
That is a reflection of the demographic makeup of the membership. I dare say volunteer firefighters are the majority of members here, followed by EMS, other type/enthusiast/photographer, then career firefighters and lastly cops. No science there, just a shot in the wind based on observing the site itself.
Firefighting and tactics are fair game for ripe conversation. There are no security issues related to the public release of information about tactics, what was or was not done, etc.
EMS has a major following. After all the place is named after Seth's old ride when he was doing EMS in Westchester County.
It must be frustrating at times for our Brothers and Sisters in LE, because most of what they know is classified, and cannot be discussed here. The only issues that make it to public discussion are those infamous cases which the media believes is their responsibility to make fodder of discussion.
I think most of the media thinks they are doing something patriotic by continually criticizing LE, and focusing in on the cases of the day that are controversial.
There has been much discussion from the left, that law enforcement in America is becoming "Israeli-ized." The majority of Americans have accepted the tighter restrictions on our personal liberties and freedoms as just the cost of living a free life in an open democracy where there are security threats to everybody's safety. I understand and accept the "Patriot Act" but sometimes wonder why the TSA has to act politically correct by body searching disabled little children.
TSA represents in ordinary people's minds; authority. The same authority as the police officer. The understanding of a Federal level of authority even more powerful on peoples lives than they realize.
Not to wonder too far though, but members here from LE figuratively have their hands tied when it comes to discussion here. I guess that's why fire discussion became so prevalent. We from fire do love to talk shop, as LE does. They just have to do it in private mostly, while we blab away here.....

Very well said George. The simple fact is that the Law Enforcement field is one of the most scrutinized, Monday morning quarterbacked professions out there. The media sensationalizes stories involving Law Enforcement to sell papers which turns the general public against us. "Community activists" love to blame the PD for all the issues that support their own personal self-righteous agendas without using their influence in the community to address the real problems that plague low-income neighborhoods. And every Bob, Dick, and Harry who watches some Hollywood cop on the big screen and plays Call of Duty 20 hours a day is all of a sudden an expert marksmen and a tactical genius who can shoot a gun out of the hand from a fleeing felon at 50 yards and then questions why we don't do the same when confronted with a real life deadly force encounter; not some BS video game encounter while sitting around in the living room wearing nothing but a pair of stained tighty whities.
Then I have to come on here and listen to a couple FD guys who always have something to say about LE? It's the hypocrisy that kills me with the whole thing, plus it sounds like a bunch of bratty crybabies alot of times. I'm sorry to say it, but it is what it is. Simple fact is when FD screws up, how often do you see an LEO on here chime in with some stupid comment? So far I've had nothing but good working relationships with FD guys, and I hope to keep it that way. I don't have the time, the patience, or the desire to cry about every little thing. Now I love my job and I take a lot of pride in it; but in the end it's just a job that pays the bills.

And you know what crime cop, some of these (not all) are the same posters who pull the "we're on the same team" card when it comes time for some "courtesy" that they feel entitled too out in the field.
Their outrage is sporadic and magically disappears when convenient.

JJB:
I have carefully analyzed all the posts on this thread and the related one and it would now seem to me that ESU's choice is obvious:
1) Take action and get criticized on it on forums such as this one
2) Take no action, (get a picture of the ESU guys standing around in the NY Post), and get criticized in the media and by the public at large
So really, the choice is obvious. Just decide who you want to criticize your actions, and that will help guide you in you decision making matrix.

Oh my god, if I wasn't working off an Ancient Roman version of MS word right now I would absolutely turn that into an official flow chart/decision matrix. We could even send some to the NYPD and NYSP to put in their cars! Courtesy of EMTBravo members.
That sir, is arguably one of the best sarcastic answers to a thread I have seen on this website in a LONG time. I'd commend you for it, but the Fire Department has sole responsibility for sarcasm and humor operations on this forum. Stop trying to do our jobs...

I haven't been on emtbravo in a few days so I sign in and see this topic and I figure I should get another cup of coffee before I read my daily dose of anti cop stupidity... and I was not let down.....
I have said before many times that there is a huge anti cop sentiment on here and it once again reared it's ugly head in this thread and in the thread about the ESU guys getting people of an apartment.
I believe it is incumbent on all of us to do WHATEVER we have to do to get the job done and to keep the public safe. It seems like some on here have forgotten that keeping the public safe is our primary function.
When I happen to be at a scene, even a medical call, I help however I can. If someone from empress says " here hold this" and they hand me whatever, what am I going to say no ??? Of course not I'm going to provide whatever help they need to get their job done. There have been times when a PD member has had to drive an empress bus because the medics were working the patient.. do you think anyone at empress got their drawers in a bunch and complained that a cop was driving the bus ?? Of course not..... this isn't a perfect world, jobs don't always go by the playbook and we all have to be ready for that.
If there is a working structure fire and the YFD is there and i'm walking up to the scene and a firefighter is trying to connect to a hydrant and it's stuck, if he says " hey can you give me a hand here" Of course i'm going to help him without hesitation.. because thats what we do... we help without hesitation.
I could go on and on providing more what if's and giving actualy instances where cops have been asked by other services to help but those of us who are rational know that these troopers rose to the occasion and supported the FD when they needed it.
Great Job Brothers.

And yet everyone (including myself) applauded members of the FDNY for backing up and assisting NYPD officers in Staten Island who were faced with a large unruly crowd.
Who's guarding the hen house? The other Troopers working. Those Troopers most likely would have been assigned to the fire scene anyways.
If a Firefighter taking one of my guns to help me in a firefight saves my ass or someone else's, I'm good with it. These Troopers didn't take the hose from anyone's hands, they were asked by the Fire Chief to help. Any cop would have stepped up and did the right thing.
The simple fact is web the crap hits the fan, emergency service providers step up and do the right thing for the communities we serve and for our fellow emergency service providers. These Troopers were not tasked with an interior attack, they were tasked with spraying some water on a fire from well outside the structure because the FD didn't have the manpower. If I was a homeowner, I'd be pretty damn grateful.

Good luck with that one BNechis. Firefighters would be in an uproar in certain parts of the County if law enforcement tried to keep a "brother firefighter" away from a great buffy photo op. Some liberal crybaby would be wailing that the police were infringing on their rights to photo some poor persons house burning to the ground.

And yet everyone (including myself) applauded members of the FDNY for backing up and assisting NYPD officers in Staten Island who were faced with a large unruly crowd.
Who's guarding the hen house? The other Troopers working. Those Troopers most likely would have been assigned to the fire scene anyways.
If a Firefighter taking one of my guns to help me in a firefight saves my ass or someone else's, I'm good with it. These Troopers didn't take the hose from anyone's hands, they were asked by the Fire Chief to help. Any cop would have stepped up and did the right thing.
The simple fact is web the crap hits the fan, emergency service providers step up and do the right thing for the communities we serve and for our fellow emergency service providers. These Troopers were not tasked with an interior attack, they were tasked with spraying some water on a fire from well outside the structure because the FD didn't have the manpower. If I was a homeowner, I'd be pretty damn grateful.

Very well said George. The simple fact is that the Law Enforcement field is one of the most scrutinized, Monday morning quarterbacked professions out there. The media sensationalizes stories involving Law Enforcement to sell papers which turns the general public against us. "Community activists" love to blame the PD for all the issues that support their own personal self-righteous agendas without using their influence in the community to address the real problems that plague low-income neighborhoods. And every Bob, Dick, and Harry who watches some Hollywood cop on the big screen and plays Call of Duty 20 hours a day is all of a sudden an expert marksmen and a tactical genius who can shoot a gun out of the hand from a fleeing felon at 50 yards and then questions why we don't do the same when confronted with a real life deadly force encounter; not some BS video game encounter while sitting around in the living room wearing nothing but a pair of stained tighty whities.
Then I have to come on here and listen to a couple FD guys who always have something to say about LE? It's the hypocrisy that kills me with the whole thing, plus it sounds like a bunch of bratty crybabies alot of times. I'm sorry to say it, but it is what it is. Simple fact is when FD screws up, how often do you see an LEO on here chime in with some stupid comment? So far I've had nothing but good working relationships with FD guys, and I hope to keep it that way. I don't have the time, the patience, or the desire to cry about every little thing. Now I love my job and I take a lot of pride in it; but in the end it's just a job that pays the bills.