nysff

NYS PESH came out last year at several fire service conferences to discuss with "Best Practices" document developed by OFPC, PESH and FASNY/NYSAFC representatives.  In that document it is stated that higher level of training is needed by line/chief officers including the job objectives contained in Fire Officer 1 as well as other training including Firefighter 2.

On 7/29/2016 at 6:09 PM, Flashpoint said:

 

Article: http://m.timesunion.com/local/article/One-town-35-chiefs-1370649.php

This article is from 2011.  As far as change goes..... Not much other than the addition of 2 more ladder trucks and less man power.  

There was a recently published article in the same newspaper about a multiple car fire at a supermarket that took the home department (Latham FD) 23 minutes to respond to with 2 members.  Apparently, according to the article and the Colonie Professional Firefighters Association facebook page, there were 3 additional mutual aid departments that responded prior to the home agency's engine.  There was a video as well.  I don't have a subscription to the newspaper so I can not access the online content.

As far as population goes.... excess of 83,000 night time population excluding the Village of Menands and Village of Colonie.  Daytime population is well over 120,000 with all the commercial business and office parks.

It looks like OFPC has announced the annual Technical Rescue Conference. Here is the link below:

http://www.dhses.ny.gov/ofpc/news/events/documents/tech-rescue-conference.pdf

They will be holding in-service training as well as classroom presentations.

So they are not firefighters.

This has already been addressed in prior posts about the Albany/Colonie area. They are titled firefighters, just are not required to be civil service tested as a private corporation can not give a civil service exam. The IAFF obviously must consider them as firefighters or they would not be in the IAFFas local 4924. As far as the training requirements that they fall under, I am not sure what each department requires of their firefighters. I am not associated with either one of these departments so I couldn't tell you. I do know that civil service firefighters have state mandated training requirements that have also been discussed on the forum in length in the past.

I don't ever recall seeing a civil service posting for firefighter in Albany County.

These two fire departments are Fire Protection Districts and do not fall under civil service status as they are private corp. that contract with the town. There is however a civil service test for Albany County that would cover any fire district or village that would want to hire firefighters, such as the Village of Green Island.

http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Latham-fire-company-settles-case-restores-cuts-5605240.php

Story about the paid firefighters that staff two of the 12 volunteer departments in the Town of Colonie. This decision was involving the Latham Fire Department. The union represents both Latham and Shaker Road/Loudonville paid firefighters under one local.

Is that for new classes?

You have to sit for the national certification written exam and take and pass the practical skills evaluations. This is given annually at Montour Falls, as well as regionally if there is demand for it. I am sure Westchester County could get a regional exam if there was enough demand for it.

This is one of the sorriest excuses for a document I have ever seen. All it does is "recommend." Yes, NY is a home rule state, but it does Require 229 hours of training for career firefighters under their document Administrative Standards for Firefighters. Where's the "home rule" in that? I believe the State could require a lot but just chooses not to. Even the 229 hours is minimal. Responsible fire departments are giving their probies somewhere in the range of 400 hours before they hit the street. Along with that, the required 100 hrs per annum cannot scratch the surface of the things they should be training on annually.

Where was home rule when the state mandated PASS devices and personal escape systems? The state jumped right over home rule when enough people demanded these items, and the state can do it in regards to training. All you have to do is get together and make a stink to enough stste legislators.

The argument for "home rule" and "recommendations instead of requirements" over the years has usually been something along the lines of "If we force too much training on firefighters, we will lose volunteers." Well, how would you rather lose them, because you require too much training, or would you rather carry them out in stokes baskets and put their name on that ever growing stone monument in Albany. (By the way, that monument sits in front of the place where they only "recommended" training. Ironic, isn't it?) This is not a salvo aimed at volunteers, either. The vols that see the need for training will stay.

I spent almost 35 years on the fire department and I cannot remember a time when I didn't want more skills and knowledge. Even in retirement, I am still learning. The Authority Having Jurisdiction should be within yourself. You should be begging your department for more training and knowledge.

How would you feel if you were personally responsible for losing a guy because you chose not to train on whatever killed your fellow firefighter? You have to live with that for the rest of your life?

Never let a man say that his training let him down.

Excellent post Chief. The legislature seems to use the "home rule" excuse when and where they seem fit. As far as the the 229 standard being minimal, at the time it was written and enacted, training was hap hazard at best with no standard amount or type of training provided. Over the years the hours have increased to close to 500 hours during initial training at both the state academy and the westchester academy (I have no clue how many hours "local" academies are putting in), but the law has not changed.

CT is also a "Home Rule" state and the state technically cannot "require" any department to have its personnel trained for to the Firefighter 1 level, but its the accepted standard/benchmark/whatever you want to call it. Will this mean you're going ProBoard in NY?

New York State already is ProBoard for Firefighter I and II as well as other courses.

Is this new? In essence it is Firefighter 1 to be interior and Fire Officer 1 to be an officer...

Yes. This is new and was posted on their website on the 21st of June. I feel this was a long over due document, however they are only recommendations as NYS is a "home rule" state as stated above by firecapt32, and these are minimum as well. It would be nice to have a legislative law like the career side has to mandate training levels for all firefighters to be trained to the same minimum standards.

OFPC has developed a Fire Department Best Practice document that is available on their website. The link to the document is below. This document outlines what they consider to be the "best practice" in regards to minimum training requirements for the fire service.http://www.dhses.ny.gov/ofpc/training/documents/training-best-practices.pdf

There are no requirements from PESH except an hour training requirement ... when the talk about min training they defer to OFPC

Then OFPC defers right back to PESH! Only in NY. I don't understand why a state as big and populated as ours is behind the curve with training requirements as compared to say Florida or the Carolinas, or Texas. In those states, regardless of your status (career or volunteer) the training requirements are the same. I know the reason why (FASNY) but I just don't understand it. Their mission is to look out for the good and welfare of the members of the volunteer fire service, but instead they are doing a disservice to those members by lobbying for the lack of training requirements. Everytime OFPC does something to better the training level, FASNY has a problem. It happened when the training went from EF and IFA to the Training 2000 series, and now to the FF1 and FF2 format.

The minimum legal requirements for volunteer firefighters in NYS are set by PESH, not OFPC, and Firefighter 1 is not the standard. As I have posted before, NYS is a home rule state, so your AHJ sets the plan and training requirements on how you meet the PESH law. OFPC has sent out guidance on what equivalents are for FF 1, but again these are not laws.

It has been busy upstate the last week. Several volunteer FD's have gone to work in addition to the career departments. Schenectady has had 3 two alarm fires today alone, including a fatal this morning at 5:30 am and one that is going on as I type. Troy had a multiple alarm Tuesday and again today at 12:15, and Albany has had their own share of work. Eli Gill has some photos on his website, www.10-75.net of one of Albany's and of one that happened in Colonie in Shaker Road.

Here is a link to the Times Union about the fatal this morning.

LINK

The fire in Troy today also had a ceiling collapse. The home owner is a local volunteer in a Troy suburb, and lost everything from what I have heard.

Here is a link to the Troy Record.

My link

Watervliet, the West Troy Fire Department...

There was also talk of Albany providing fire protection to the Village of Menands. Honestly, they should get rid of the volunteer (Menands, Maplewood, Schuyler Heights) departments along the river and merge them into one reasonable sized paid department (Cohoes, Watervliet & Green Island). The number of volunteers is dwindling in Maplewood and Menands and they often can't get off the floor.

Also, back on topic, the brothers did a great job last night!

Eli,

The Albany/Menands talk was just that, talk. And it wasn't for full time coverage anyway. It was for either a truck or an engine depending on call type and location for mutual aid in addition to what Menands gets from the other town departments. Menands ended up using the Arsenal instead after formal discussions took place with the leaders of the village and the arsenal department. There were also informal meetings to become a joint fire district with Schuyler Heights, but the village officials and Schuyler Heights commissioners were not involved.

Back on topic, Troy and their mutual aid did a great job with the jobs. It has been pretty busy upstate since the new year began with multiple jobs in all three of "big" cities as well as the smaller ones. Cohoes has had three or four already which is not the norm.

Everyone stay safe.

I spend a fair ammount of time in the Capital District, but know very little about the local fire services.

Obviously, Albany is the biggest, best-staffed of them all.

However, i know that the other smaller FDs have minimal staffing. I had read about the consolidation study between Cohoes and Watervliet and thought it was a positive step.

Now, the Watervliet Arsenal FD is a federal one, correct? I know that they provide mutual-aid, but i dont know much about their staffing levels.

I guess i didnt realize how minimal the staffing was in Cohoes, Watervliet and Green Island.

nysff...you seem to be the best source for Capital area FD topics. So, ill throw this question at you if ya dont mind. Would/could it be feasible for Cohoes, Watervliet and Green Island to create some sort of merger/consolidation?

Again, i dont know a whole lot about the area in regards to response areas and distance between districts.

Obviously there was interest in a merger/ consolidation or else the study would not have happened. Green island was not part of the study, nor was the Maplewood Fire Protection District that separates Watervliet and Cohoes. Green island's mayor wants to remain independent. The green island fd is staffed by 6 full time firefighters including the chief and assistant chief witht the remainder being call men. Watervliet provides the ambulance and ladder to Green Island so they run in the village around 2 times a day, sometimes more. The study has not gone anywhere as far as I know. The Cohoes union had issues with the study as they would be downsized with the recommendations.

Back in the late 90's there were talks of Troy and Watervliet merging, but that would be a nightmare as the two cities are in separate counties. Ironically, Watervliet was at one time the largest town in the state, comprising all of Albany County back in the 1800's and whatis currently the city of Watervliet was known as the Village of West Troy. That town fell apart in 1898 when the Town of Colonie ceded from Watervliet and green island formed their own town to maintain their own village . Now there are 12 independent fire departments covering Colonie, 1 in green island and1 in Watervliet.

What does Watervliet have for manpower? I thought they were a pretty small dept. 1-2 engines and an ambulance? I see they called Albany, do they call them before say Cohoes, or since they pull Watervliet and Green Island, they don't want to strip Cohoes too?

Watervliet runs with 7 or 8 per shift. They staff 1 primary engine, 1 tower, and 1 als ambulance with recall shifts staffing a reserve ambulance and reserve engine, plus they have a utility truck (formally Medic 1).

Troy called Albany in for a cover assignment for a truck company. Troy also had Green Island covering at Troy Station 3 and Colonie EMS with an ALS ambulance at Central Station plus recall members staffing reserve engines. Cohoes usually is not the first call into Troy for M/A due to what I can best describe as an argument years ago. Cohoes will go over on occasion and cover Troy station 1 in Lansingburgh (North Troy), but Cohoes only staff 2 man engine companies. When they go they take a man off Ladder 1 so there is an extended response time, although it is only 3-5 minutes delay.

Watervliet has been calling Cohoes on all working fires since they started a consolidation study about two years ago. Again, Cohoes has to shuffle some manpower around to provide a three man company. Watervliet also has the Watervliet Arsenal FD on the fire box as a FAST, however they are always put to work, leaving no dedicated FAST.

Troy actually responded to all four fires last night. Watervliet has auto aid with Troy on all working fires. Troy Engine 4 was sent to Watervliet, which is short on the normal auto aid response of 1 engine, the rescue squad and medic 4.

Times Union

A total of 6 firefighters were injured. All will be ok, and are EXTREMELY lucky to have made it out. Members arrived to find the entire top floor (illegal finished attic w/ multiple broken up apts) going, made an aggressive push only to be pulled out and then sent back in after a switching to a defensive attack. I won't say anything about the rest of the operation or the mayday...

Also note, AFD has 8 engines, not 7.

Thanks Eli, I have fat fingers and meant to type 8.

Just listened to the audio, personally thought that the IC up there did a tremendous job, seemed like he remained calm and clear during the entire ordeal, thankfully no one was seriously injured

The commanders that day did do a tremendous job. The intial IC was a BC with 20+ years on the job and the deputy that assumed command has 30+ years on the job and currently serves as Car 2 which is the Executive Deputy Chief of Department (Warren Abriel). Most of the fire officers who were working that day each have 20+ years on the job (one closer to 40 years) so there was a lot of expierenced members who remained calm.

if you are listening to the tape, i can decode some of the portable numbers

there used to be 10 engines 1 to 11 with no # 3. the officer from the engine has a 3 digit radio id starting with a 1. 101 is engine 1's officer.

there used to be 4 ladders. the ladder officers radio id is 20_.

there used to be 3 paramedic rescues,, non transporting, {just like johnny and roy} housed with engine companies. their portables start with a 3.

the heavy rescue, which ran a lot including all working fires, is probably what is heard as rescue 1 with a portable starting with a 4.

when i left albany years ago there was a firehouse on delaware ave (cross st referred to for this fire) which housed engine 9, rescue 9, and ladder 4. these were probably first due.

obviously things have changed in regard to battalion chiefs; they used to staff bat 1 and bat 2. there was also an in-the-rounds driver for the one deputy chief who would be called out for all 2-baggers. in the days before cell phones the driver was still supposed to know where to find the deputy, on or off duty.

Your information is pretty accurate. There are 7 engine compaines in the city with engine numbers 3,6, and 8 being disbanded. There still are 4 ladder companies and 3 rescue units plus the Rescue Squad (heavy rescue company). The Rescue 1 that is heard in the audio is the Rescue 1 (Paramedic Rig) which is portable 301. The heavy rescue is identified in all communications as either the Rescue Squad or just simply the Squad and its officer is portable 401. All riding seats have a portable with the officer being xx1 followed by the crew of xx1 A, B, C, etc...

Ex: Portable 401 is the Squad OIC, portable 401A is a member of the crew as is 401B.

The Deputy Chiefs no longer have drivers, nor do the battalions. The Battalion numbering system has changed over the years due to the modernization of the communications department. CAD was introduced back in the 90's and assigned the former battalion chief numbers of battalion 1 and battalion 2 as Car 7 and Car 8. This was recently changed (5 years ago) to Battalion 7 and Battalion 8.

Albany Mayday

1 Cuyler Street, Albany NY 2nd Alarm with Mayday transmitted. Mayday transmitted at 17:54 of audio. The mayday was transmitted after the roof collapsed during mop up operations in the attic. There were 4 injuries due to the collapse with 2 firefighters being transported to Albany Medical Center with minor injuries.

And this is why I get my panties in a bunch all the time. Guys come on here, pounding on their chests, that they're better trained because they are career firefighters - but we all know that some places aren't meeting their minimal requirements. (I am NOT speaking specifically about any one department, so please don't slash my tires guys! )

We ALL have room for improvement, we just need to put the paid vs. volunteer BS aside and make those "looking out for us" (see: FASNY, etc.) come together and develop a realistic training requirement for both sides and give departments the abilities to meet these requirements (IE: MTOs for paid AND volunteer).

Our Department, as far as I can tell and based on what I hear, is pushing more training than most others around us. It would be so much nicer if all the time many of us took to become FSI I or II could give our guys OFPC programs that we lack in Westchester. We have close to a dozen members that are FSI I or II basically being under-utilized.

We all know improvements need to be made, but we're all hitting that glass ceiling created by the state, due to narrow-minded and tradition-bound organizations that have made it impossible for all of us to be better.

The desire (by most) is there, it's just a shame a lot of us speak up and find our concerns falling on deaf ears.

NYS is a "home rule" state. Your department can teach its firefighters whatever it wants to, as long as your 8 hours of PESH training is covered. Having an MTO will only allow your department to teach certain OFPC courses, which because of the home rule issue are NOT MANDATED courses. OFPC recommends that all firefighters should have certain courses, only the AHJ (your department) can mandate what training is required. If your department wants to teach their own courses, they can buy a canned program from Delmar or IFSTA and teach the course using your in house instructors who are instructor qualified. OFPC will even give a certification as long as you follow the attached guideline.

OFPC equivalency

Here is a link to the OFPC website and the MTO/In-Service training requirements.

OFPC MTO Link

They are classified by DMNA as Airport Firefighter. They just recently had job postings for 3 air guard facilities and that is what the announcement titled them as. The primary mission is ARFF in the event of a crash. The secondary mission is structural protection and EMS first response. It is unfortunate that they along with the members of OFPC do not get the same protections of 207A or the union representation that others get.