bigrig77

I don't know, nor do I care, what this Chief was doing, that business is between him, his Department and those who foot the bill. But what should be clear to everyone by now is that we are ALL under scrutiny...everyday, everywhere, anytime, any place. Whether it's driving dept vehicles or simply wearing FD apparel think before you act...or speak. A moment of carelessness and you just might find yourself plastered all over Youtube, and the fodder for forums like this...or worse still, in the unemployment line on the evening news trying to explain yourself.

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.
Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.
Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.
Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.
Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.
Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.
Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.
Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.
Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

There is enough waste of taxpayer resources in my own district to be worried about someone 100 miles away.

We cannot discount the possiblity that it may have been there for some other sanctioned department/district business. Unless someone actually approached the operator of the vehicle and asked questions, there could be a million explanations that we don't know about.

There are volunteer rigs in our county that run about 30 calls per year (maybe 1st due at a fire every 3 to 5 years). They last 25 years, thats 750 calls in the vehicles lifetime.
There are FDNY rigs that do 5,000+ calls per year, thats 50,000+ calls and who knows how many fires. The FDNY rig does more calls in 2 months than the volunteer rig above does in its lifetime.
You can not compare the two.
Better quality - Really?
Better features - maybe, but are they needed to get the job done?
Better condition - yes, except for the flat spots in the tires from sitting so long

Low bider my friend, those apparatus are work horses, built on bare bones though, only having the minimal equipment needed to do its job, not 6,000 lights, no gold leaf, no 8-10 man cabs (cause you always fill those seats for jobs).

I think I might hire the construction laborer. If you had a shi*^y job, at least you realize what a good job firefighting is. If after all his education, aptitude, certifications and so on, the laborer still beat him by a point. That says a lot for that laborer. Maybe he never had enough money to pay for higher education. Maybe he bought a couple of prep books and studied every chance he got.
One thing you do know is that he has a job that requires hard work at sometimes menial tasks, and sometimes for hours at a time. (Sound familiar to those firefighters out there?) And amazingly he still beat the paramedic by a point!
Paramedics, don't get your knickers in a knot. I still like you and I'm not the one who picked "paramedic vs. laborer" to be the example. When the Yankees play the Red Sox, if Boston scores just one more run than the Yankees, guess who loses?
The test is given every four years because the demand on jobs isn't there. If the test were every year the b**** would be "Why do they give the test every year to 1000 people and then hire only 50 a year?
Scantron tests that take six months for a list to be posted is beyond me. You'll just have to ask somebody else about how that works.
Qualifying before hiring is done in Florida. See how many people are disgruntled because they spent so much time and money qualifying and never got hired. Does the statement "You have to be a firefighter before you can become a firefighter" make any sense to you?

I don't know if it's the case or not, but you seem to come across as someone who is not having success testing for a firefighter position and therefore is arguing that the system is flawed rather than accept the possibility that maybe you aren't as qualified as you think you are or that other candidates are simply more qualified.

1) That would violate the federal court mandate for 900 of the approximatly 1150 jobs in Westchester
2) But the test already does that and it would violate the federal court mandate for 900 of the approximatly 1150 jobs in Westchester
3) You think the computer part will reduce cost (it will and I agree it should go that way) this would increase the cost dramatically.
4) The majority of our latest hires all have degrees and most are in their 30's. They perform better on the test and even on the physical agility (seams they listen to the suggestions on how to improve times).
5) That would violate the federal court mandate for 900 of the approximatly 1150 jobs in Westchester
6) see #3 above
7) Its not, you still have to outscore on the physical agility test
8) True, but then we should have entry tests for all EMT classes, there are a lot of "kids" that cant pass that class also.
9) That would violate the federal court mandate for 900 of the approximatly 1150 jobs in Westchester
10) That might help individules but the test is about hiring the best for the department, not about improving the individuals ability to pass. Also if I worked my a** off to score well and you sat back, why should you be rewarded?

There's a certain level of irony in advocating for a "more relaxing and better test experience" when discussing a test used to get hired into a high stress/high pressure job like police officer or firefighter.

It doesn't matter if they continue to give tests or not because the minority's will just cry and complain and get the job like FDNY was made to hire them

You need to define "relevant"?
The purpose of much of the (firefighter) test was never to determine what fire knowledge you have, you will learn that at the academy. The reason a large portion is math & reading comp is because the purpose is to determine who has the basic academic skills to be able to understand the concepts and material taught in the acadamy. If you can not do basic math, it is very hard to keep up during pump calculation, etc.

I wished you were right 635, but the best candidate is no longer part of the dynamic

Instructors want combat ready, well trained, and psychologically prepared firefighters. Anything less is creating a liability and endangering the brothers and sisters already on the line. Instructors would rather have a high flunk-out rate than unprepared firefighters.

I don't think the instructors are worrying about their reputations while teaching, they are worrying about whether the crop of recruits they were given is qualified enough and fit enough to do the job. How's it going to reflect on them when someone they passed through probie school goes and gets himself killed, or God forbid gets a whole company seriously injured or killed trying to save his ass? All because they passed him through, not truly ready or qualified, so they would look good? I don't think so, that's a dangerous mindset, as an instructor you need to be doing your job right, no matter how it may reflect on you.

Many years ago a wise chief (H.A.C.) told my fire academy graduating class the following (I think it was really meant for the parents):

When the Nuclear Physicists at Chernobyl screwed up, they called the Fire Department

When NASA rocket scientists screw up, they called the Fire Department

When the professors at any Ivy League school screw up, they called the Fire Department

When the chemists at Exxon Chemical screw up, they called the Fire Department


Fire Fighters need to be smarter than all of these people, because we are called to fix what they screwed up
PS....When Judges screw up you appeal (not part of the original speech)

I've been around a long time, and all these years, I thought the job of instructors there was to ride everybody's butt to push them to the limit. What will these watered down guys do when they catch a real job? Will we have federal judges at the Command Posts to tell them not to cry?
My only advice to the real brothers is this: If you catch a job with these watered-down guys, keep them on front of you as you work your way down the hall to the fire. That way, they can't leave you.

I thought thats what the Judge wanted in the FDNY, 8 year old girls.